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Message no. 1
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:03:04 -0800
Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks that are
currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host of 3rd
edition sourcebooks?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 2
From: Shawn Plummer <plummer@***.CC.GENESEO.EDU>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:16:19 -0500
So far only the Grimoire and Awakenings are being republished 3rd edition
style in the book "Magic in the Shadows". Otherwise all the old books apply
(rigger2, VR2.0) Rules in 3rd supersede older rules of course.


~~~~~~~~~
Shawn Plummer
plummer@*******.edu

"The mind can make substance, and people planets of its own with beings
brighter than have been, and give a breath to forms which can outlive all
flesh."
-Lord Byron

----------
>From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
>To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
>Subject: 3rd edition question
>Date: Tue, Dec 1, 1998, 1:03 PM
>

>Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks that are
>currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host of 3rd
>edition sourcebooks?
>
>-=Toffer=-
Message no. 3
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:24:03 -0700
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Davidson, Chris wrote:
/
/ Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks that are
/ currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host of 3rd
/ edition sourcebooks?

In the back of the BBB3 there are notes on adjustments that should be
made to previous sourcebooks. The adjustments are very minor, so yes,
the BBB3 is designed to be compatible with previous sourcebooks.

However, material from Awakenings and the Grimoire will be updated in
Magic in the Shadows (due out in March). It looks like Man and Machine
(due around summer of next year) will update Shadowtech and
Cybertechnology. And the Canon Companion (also due out in summer of 99
AFAIK) will update the Street Samurai Catalog. As with the BBB3 it
looks to me like these will be mostly cosmetic changes and bug fixes.
You can continue to use the SR2 sourcebooks with SR3. As always, it's
your game and you can do whatever you want :)

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 4
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:31:39 -0800
Oh, so Grimoire and Awakenings are being put together in one book? That's
pretty cool...I logged onto their websight, be it doesn't really say how
it's all going to work...is Magic in the Shadows out yet?

> ----------
> From: Shawn Plummer[SMTP:plummer@***.CC.GENESEO.EDU]
> Reply To: Shadowrun Discussion
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 10:16
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
>
> So far only the Grimoire and Awakenings are being republished 3rd edition
> style in the book "Magic in the Shadows". Otherwise all the old books
> apply
> (rigger2, VR2.0) Rules in 3rd supersede older rules of course.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~
> Shawn Plummer
> plummer@*******.edu
>
> "The mind can make substance, and people planets of its own with beings
> brighter than have been, and give a breath to forms which can outlive all
> flesh."
> -Lord Byron
>
> ----------
> >From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
> >To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> >Subject: 3rd edition question
> >Date: Tue, Dec 1, 1998, 1:03 PM
> >
>
> >Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks that
> are
> >currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host of
> 3rd
> >edition sourcebooks?
> >
> >-=Toffer=-
>
Message no. 5
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:33:02 -0800
Why is it called BBB3?

-=Toffer=-
> ----------
> From: David Buehrer[SMTP:dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG]
> Reply To: Shadowrun Discussion
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 10:24
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
>
> For the mere cost of a Thaum, Davidson, Chris wrote:
> /
> / Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks that
> are
> / currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host of
> 3rd
> / edition sourcebooks?
>
> In the back of the BBB3 there are notes on adjustments that should be
> made to previous sourcebooks. The adjustments are very minor, so yes,
> the BBB3 is designed to be compatible with previous sourcebooks.
>
> However, material from Awakenings and the Grimoire will be updated in
> Magic in the Shadows (due out in March). It looks like Man and Machine
> (due around summer of next year) will update Shadowtech and
> Cybertechnology. And the Canon Companion (also due out in summer of 99
> AFAIK) will update the Street Samurai Catalog. As with the BBB3 it
> looks to me like these will be mostly cosmetic changes and bug fixes.
> You can continue to use the SR2 sourcebooks with SR3. As always, it's
> your game and you can do whatever you want :)
>
> -David B.
> --
> "Earn what you have been given."
> --
> email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
>
Message no. 6
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:38:53 -0700
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Davidson, Chris wrote:
/
/ Why is it called BBB3?

The 1st Edition core book was the Big Blue Book. The 2nd Edition core
book was the Big Black Book. The 3rd Edition is also a Big Black
Book. To differentiate you just add the edition number to the
abbreviation: BBB1, BBB2, and BBB3 :)

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 7
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:39:05 -0800
Ahhh, I didn't know that one. People in my circles have always called it
the SR1 SR2 and SR3...is it more comonly known as BBB1 2 and 3?

-=Toffer=-

> ----------
> From: David Buehrer[SMTP:dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG]
> Reply To: Shadowrun Discussion
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:38
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
>
> For the mere cost of a Thaum, Davidson, Chris wrote:
> /
> / Why is it called BBB3?
>
> The 1st Edition core book was the Big Blue Book. The 2nd Edition core
> book was the Big Black Book. The 3rd Edition is also a Big Black
> Book. To differentiate you just add the edition number to the
> abbreviation: BBB1, BBB2, and BBB3 :)
>
> -David B.
> --
> "Earn what you have been given."
> --
> email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
>
Message no. 8
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:48:54 -0700
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Davidson, Chris wrote:
/
/ Ahhh, I didn't know that one. People in my circles have always called it
/ the SR1 SR2 and SR3...is it more comonly known as BBB1 2 and 3?

SR2, SR2, and SR3 are used to refer to the editions as a whole.
Awakenings is for SR2, for example. Or: Per SR3 rules drain codes for
combat spells are variable.

But if you're refering specifically to the SR3 core rulebook it would be
BBB3. For example: On page 134 of the BBB3 it says...

You'll probably see both SR3 and BBB3 used interchangeably on this list
until the SR3 sourcebooks come out and we have to start getting
specific :)

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 9
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:50:12 -0700
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Davidson, Chris wrote:
/
/ Oh, so Grimoire and Awakenings are being put together in one book? That's
/ pretty cool...I logged onto their websight, be it doesn't really say how
/ it's all going to work...is Magic in the Shadows out yet?

MitS is due to be published in March.

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 10
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:48:50 -0800
> SR2, SR2, and SR3 are used to refer to the editions as a whole.
> Awakenings is for SR2, for example. Or: Per SR3 rules drain codes for
> combat spells are variable.
>
Ahh...got it...all clear....thanks.

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 11
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:52:29 -0500
>MitS is due to be published in March.
Unless they push it back again. Which is odd, considering I'm guessing
Steve has had it fairly finalized for awhile. Ah well...has anybody
seen the GM screen out yet? I spoke with a fairly reputable game shop in
Jacksonville, FL who said it was due last week, but as usual with
FASA hope it appears before christmas.
Message no. 12
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:58:44 -0800
> >MitS is due to be published in March.
> Unless they push it back again. Which is odd, considering I'm guessing
> Steve has had it fairly finalized for awhile. Ah well...has anybody
> seen the GM screen out yet? I spoke with a fairly reputable game shop in
> Jacksonville, FL who said it was due last week, but as usual with
> FASA hope it appears before christmas.
>
I've only been into SR for about the last couple of years...so I'm not
really used to how well FASA meets the release date they say they'll
make...something similar to Microsoft I take it?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 13
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:05:05 -0500
>I've only been into SR for about the last couple of years...so I'm not
>really used to how well FASA meets the release date they say they'll
>make...something similar to Microsoft I take it?

Nah..not nearly that bad. But lately take their release dates with
a grain of salt. Regardless of the reasons (and quite a few may
be legitamate), most of their releases have been pushed back
at least a month or so.
Message no. 14
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:12:10 -0800
> >I've only been into SR for about the last couple of years...so I'm not
> >really used to how well FASA meets the release date they say they'll
> >make...something similar to Microsoft I take it?
>
> Nah..not nearly that bad. But lately take their release dates with
> a grain of salt. Regardless of the reasons (and quite a few may
> be legitamate), most of their releases have been pushed back
> at least a month or so.
>
Cool...I'll be looking forward to it...now that I know what I'm looking for.
:)
Message no. 15
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:20:31 -0500
On 1 Dec 98, at 12:38, David Buehrer wrote:

> The 1st Edition core book was the Big Blue Book. The 2nd Edition core
> book was the Big Black Book. The 3rd Edition is also a Big Black Book.
> To differentiate you just add the edition number to the abbreviation:
> BBB1, BBB2, and BBB3 :)

<Austin Powers>
Yea, yea, yea...
</Austin Powers>

:)

--


=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - |"Letter writing is the only
- drekhead@***.net - | device for combining
HTML to: drekhead@********.net | solitude and good company."
ICQ - UIN 2883757 | -Lord Byron
Message no. 16
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:26:19 -0700
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Lehlan Decker wrote:
/
/ >MitS is due to be published in March.
/
/ Unless they push it back again.

Well, yes, there's always that possibility ;)

Recently they've been about a month late with their products. And
that's understandable considering what Mike's gone through the last
year (his father dying and his daughter being born). However, he does
seem hell bent on getting things back on schedule and keeping them that
way :)

MitS may not be out on time, but after that it looks like they'll be
back on schedule, as far as I can tell.

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 17
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:33:47 -0500
>Recently they've been about a month late with their products. And
>that's understandable considering what Mike's gone through the last
>year (his father dying and his daughter being born). However, he does
>seem hell bent on getting things back on schedule and keeping them that
>way :)

Very true. Mike has had a rough year.

>MitS may not be out on time, but after that it looks like they'll be
>back on schedule, as far as I can tell.

Sounds good to me, and my fingures are crossed. It's just seems like it
should take less time, since the base rules already exist, and just need
to be cleaned up. But hell no one has ever accused me of being
patient. What's that good line "Fast, good, cheap....pick two"
Message no. 18
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:07:51 +1000
>>MitS may not be out on time, but after that it looks like they'll be
>>back on schedule, as far as I can tell.
>
>Sounds good to me, and my fingures are crossed. It's just seems like it
>should take less time, since the base rules already exist, and just need
>to be cleaned up. But hell no one has ever accused me of being
>patient. What's that good line "Fast, good, cheap....pick two"

From the sounds of things it's not just going to be 'cleaning up' the 'base
rules'. AFAICT, the magic system is getting a very thorough overhaul - at
least the stuff that's not already in BBB3.

Lady Jestyr

- The Australian dream: Football, meat pies and Holden cars. -
- Holdens are American, meat pies are British, and football is stupid. -
- jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
Message no. 19
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:23:23 -0500
>From the sounds of things it's not just going to be 'cleaning up' the 'base
>rules'. AFAICT, the magic system is getting a very thorough overhaul -
>at least the stuff that's not already in BBB3.

True. But most of that was probably worked out before BBB3 and
gencon. The guns book shouldn't contain much reworking (unless
they add in some optional combat rules), nor should the cannon
companion (depending on what they do with bioware). Then again it may
just be that I'm greedy and want it now. :)
Message no. 20
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:33:40 -0800
> From the sounds of things it's not just going to be 'cleaning up' the
> 'base
> rules'. AFAICT, the magic system is getting a very thorough overhaul - at
> least the stuff that's not already in BBB3.
>
I haven't made a mage yet with BBB3...just a Street Sammy, haven't really
dug into it much to see how many changes they actually made to the mage
class.

-=Toffer=-

> Lady Jestyr
>
> - The Australian dream: Football, meat pies and Holden cars. -
> - Holdens are American, meat pies are British, and football is stupid. -
> - jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
>
Message no. 21
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:45:52 EST
In a message dated 12/1/1998 1:06:18 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM writes:

>
> Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks that
are
> currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host of 3rd
> edition sourcebooks?

Yes to both questions, though SR3 does have some changes against SR2
(obviously).

-K
Message no. 22
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:05:38 -0700
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Lady Jestyr wrote:
/
/ >>MitS may not be out on time, but after that it looks like they'll be
/ >>back on schedule, as far as I can tell.
/ >
/ >Sounds good to me, and my fingures are crossed. It's just seems like it
/ >should take less time, since the base rules already exist, and just need
/ >to be cleaned up. But hell no one has ever accused me of being
/ >patient. What's that good line "Fast, good, cheap....pick two"
/
/ From the sounds of things it's not just going to be 'cleaning up' the 'base
/ rules'. AFAICT, the magic system is getting a very thorough overhaul - at
/ least the stuff that's not already in BBB3.

Yup. Steve had to take the rules from Grimmy and Awakenings and
upgraded them for SR3. He fixed problems and added new stuff. And he
edited and re-wrote quite a bit.

After a major product like MitS is written it goes on to playtesting.
Then the results of the playtest have to be compiled and any errors and
bugs fixed.

Then you have to wait for the graphics and art to be finished, which is
another department entirely.

Then everything is typset, again a different department.

Then the editors get a crack at it.

Then the line developer nitpicks it and if any changes need to be made
it goes back to the typsetter.

After all this it goes the publisher, who is on their own schedule.

Also, keep in mind that it's being published in the US, which has a lot
of holidays coming up which take up a lot of peoples time and energy.

Fun ain't it? :)

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 23
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:10:54 -0500
<SNIP Lots of stuff to get the product finished>

>Also, keep in mind that it's being published in the US, which has
>a lot of holidays coming up which take up a lot of peoples time
>and energy.
>Fun ain't it? :)

Heh..but your missing the point. I want it now. That supersedes
all the other issues. :)
Besides holidays are the perfect time to play shadowrun.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633
Message no. 24
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:12:26 -0800
> > Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks
> that
> are
> > currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host of
> 3rd
> > edition sourcebooks?
>
> Yes to both questions, though SR3 does have some changes against SR2
> (obviously).
>
Yeah, I've been reading through it to see if I can see any of the changes.
Skills was the most obvious so far...

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 25
From: Bill ChewStriker <bill@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:01:17 -0500
>Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks that are
>currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host of 3rd
>edition sourcebooks?
>
>-=Toffer=-
>
>
yes, they are compatible with updates with current books and there's a lot
of new stuff coming out as well
---Myth-Chip/Striker/Bill
Message no. 26
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:12:44 -0800
> Heh..but your missing the point. I want it now. That supersedes
> all the other issues. :)
> Besides holidays are the perfect time to play shadowrun.
>
What's worse than that...probably everyone on the list here wants it
now...that's a lot of superseding going on. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 27
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:13:06 -0800
> >Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks that
> are
> >currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host of
> 3rd
> >edition sourcebooks?
> >
> >-=Toffer=-
> >
> >
> yes, they are compatible with updates with current books and there's a lot
> of new stuff coming out as well
> ---Myth-Chip/Striker/Bill
>
Thank you sir. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 28
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:14:26 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:03 AM 12/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Was the SR3 edition meant to be used with all the other sourcebooks
that are
>currently available, or are they going to come out with a whole host
of 3rd
>edition sourcebooks?

Many of the second edition sourcebooks work just fine with SR3.
Rigger2 and VR2 are still considered to be the full sets of rules for
rigging and decking (though a few of the basics of vehicle combat have
changed in SR3, and the Otaku rules have been updated in the Renraku
Arcology: Shutdown book).

Other second edition sourcebooks, such as Street Sam Catalog (2nd
edition), Shadowtech, Fields of Fire, Cybertechnology are still
useable with SR3. The magic sourcebooks, Grimoire2 and Awakenings,
don't quite line up with the magic system presented in SR3: large
portions of the book are still useable, but some bits aren't anymore.

There are plans for a new set of sourcebooks; as long as Shadowrun is
a viable game system, FASA is going to keep writing up new sourcebooks
to sell. The magic sourcebook, Magic in the Shadows, is intended to
replace both Grimoire2 and Awakenings. The other two highly
anticipated sourcebooks are the Cannon Companion, and Man and Machine.
Cannon Companion is going to be a weapons and combat book, and from
what I understand, FASA intends for it to be something more than just
another of the type of sourcebook that I like to call a "Toy Catalog".
Man and Machine is going to be the update for cyberware/bioware,
though I'm not sure if it will be intended to fully replace
Shadowtech/Cybertechnology as MitS will replace Grimoire2/Awakenings.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 29
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:44:42 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:33 AM 12/1/98 -0800, Chris wrote:
>Why is it called BBB3?

It's _Big_.

It's _Black_.

It's a _Book_.

It's the _3rd_ such book in Shadowrun to be given the abreviation
"BBB".


The first edition of the core rulebook was a Big Blue Book, and the
second edition was a Big Black Book. With three of them, things can be
a bit confusing, so the numbering scheme (which has been imortalized
in song by Tim Kerby) was added on to keep things straight. Should
there be any subsequent editions of the core rulebook, they will most
likely be refered to as BBB# also, even if the book isn't a color that
begins with the letter "B", as the acronym can refer to "Bloody Big
Book".

For a time, many posters refered to it simply with the shorter acronym
SR3 (and many still do). However, the abreviation SR3 more properly
refers to all the third edition rules, both those apearing in the core
rulebook, and those in later sourcebooks, such as Magic in the
Shadows, Cannon Companion, and Man & Machine. In fact, the process of
expanding the SR3 ruleset beyond the scope of the core rulebook has
already started; the third edition rules for Otaku now apear in
Renraku Arcology: Shutdown.

There is another acronym that you might see tossed about: BABY. BABY
is the "Big All Black Yearbook", the hardcover version of the BBB3,
limited to a print run of 1000. These were sold at Gen-Con, offered
free as a promotional item to retailers who ordered large quantities
of the softcover to sell, and 70+ copies were sold through a special
one-time offer on FASA's website. BABY is a BBB3 with serious bragging
rights.

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Message no. 30
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:28:06 +1000
>>From the sounds of things it's not just going to be 'cleaning up' the 'base
>>rules'. AFAICT, the magic system is getting a very thorough overhaul -
>>at least the stuff that's not already in BBB3.
>
>True. But most of that was probably worked out before BBB3 and
>gencon. The guns book shouldn't contain much reworking (unless
>they add in some optional combat rules), nor should the cannon
>companion (depending on what they do with bioware). Then again it may
>just be that I'm greedy and want it now. :)

Errr... actually, I'd call you on this one. I'd say: Watch for _quite a
bit_ of new rules and stuff, in all three of the 'updated' books.

Lady Jestyr

- The Australian dream: Football, meat pies and Holden cars. -
- Holdens are American, meat pies are British, and football is stupid. -
- jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr -
Message no. 31
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:54:35 EST
In a message dated 12/2/1998 1:40:24 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
jestyr@*******.COM.AU writes:

>
> Errr... actually, I'd call you on this one. I'd say: Watch for _quite a
> bit_ of new rules and stuff, in all three of the 'updated' books.
>
I'll second this, especially if any of the rest of the people placing in
submissions for the Cannon or M&M books have similar intentions to the ones I
am aware of.

-K
Message no. 32
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:47:46 +0100
According to David Buehrer, at 12:38 on 1 Dec 98, the word on
the street was...

> The 1st Edition core book was the Big Blue Book. The 2nd Edition core
> book was the Big Black Book. The 3rd Edition is also a Big Black
> Book. To differentiate you just add the edition number to the
> abbreviation: BBB1, BBB2, and BBB3 :)

I've told you before that the number takes all the fun out of the
abbreviation :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If I had green hair, I'd dye it.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 33
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:47:46 +0100
According to Davidson, Chris, at 11:39 on 1 Dec 98, the word on
the street was...

> Ahhh, I didn't know that one. People in my circles have always called it
> the SR1 SR2 and SR3...is it more comonly known as BBB1 2 and 3?

Only on the list, AFAIK. I just call them SR[number] the same as you do.
In the end it doesn't really matter what you call it, as long as you can
get across what book you're referring to, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If I had green hair, I'd dye it.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 34
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:25:12 -0800
> Many of the second edition sourcebooks work just fine with SR3.
> Rigger2 and VR2 are still considered to be the full sets of rules for
> rigging and decking (though a few of the basics of vehicle combat have
> changed in SR3, and the Otaku rules have been updated in the Renraku
> Arcology: Shutdown book).
>
Is Renraku Arcology: Shutdown a SR3 sourcebook?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 35
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:27:23 -0800
> There is another acronym that you might see tossed about: BABY. BABY
> is the "Big All Black Yearbook", the hardcover version of the BBB3,
> limited to a print run of 1000. These were sold at Gen-Con, offered
> free as a promotional item to retailers who ordered large quantities
> of the softcover to sell, and 70+ copies were sold through a special
> one-time offer on FASA's website. BABY is a BBB3 with serious bragging
> rights.
>
Thanks.

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 36
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:33:30 -0500
>Is Renraku Arcology: Shutdown a SR3 sourcebook?
More or less. It sets the tone for the Renraku shutdown, and lists
all the facts and stuff you need to build some adventures dealing
with it. (Otaku rules, unusual drones, odd cyberware etc).
So far I've found it quite a good read and give it probably 4.5
out of five stars. I like the floor plan, but a map would be even
better.
Message no. 37
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:35:00 -0500
Lehlan Decker wrote:
> >MitS may not be out on time, but after that it looks like they'll be
> >back on schedule, as far as I can tell.
>
> Sounds good to me, and my fingures are crossed. It's just seems like it
> should take less time, since the base rules already exist, and just need
> to be cleaned up. But hell no one has ever accused me of being
> patient. What's that good line "Fast, good, cheap....pick two"
>
Fast and Good. I don't go to work for fun. :-)

James Ojaste
Message no. 38
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:38:12 -0500
<SNIP Fast, Good, Cheap Pick two>
>Fast and Good. I don't go to work for fun. :-)

Amen to that.
Message no. 39
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:41:05 -0800
> Only on the list, AFAIK. I just call them SR[number] the same as you do.
> In the end it doesn't really matter what you call it, as long as you can
> get across what book you're referring to, though.
>
Too true. I usually point. :) Give me that book over there. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 40
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:11:15 -0800
> >Is Renraku Arcology: Shutdown a SR3 sourcebook?
> More or less. It sets the tone for the Renraku shutdown, and lists
> all the facts and stuff you need to build some adventures dealing
> with it. (Otaku rules, unusual drones, odd cyberware etc).
> So far I've found it quite a good read and give it probably 4.5
> out of five stars. I like the floor plan, but a map would be even
> better.
>
Oh great...something else to buy, hehehe. Looks like something I'll have to
pick up. Thanks.

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 41
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:54:50 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:47 AM 12/2/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>> The 1st Edition core book was the Big Blue Book. The 2nd Edition
core
>> book was the Big Black Book. The 3rd Edition is also a Big Black
>> Book. To differentiate you just add the edition number to the
>> abbreviation: BBB1, BBB2, and BBB3 :)
>
>I've told you before that the number takes all the fun out of the
>abbreviation :)

I beg to differ. I think the numbers are more fun, at least when you
consider them in light of Tim's song. :)

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-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 42
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:30:49 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 08:25 AM 12/2/98 -0800, Toffer wrote:
>> and the Otaku rules have been updated in the Renraku
>> Arcology: Shutdown book).
>>
>Is Renraku Arcology: Shutdown a SR3 sourcebook?

<Clinton>
It depends on what your definition of "Sourcebook" is.
</Clinton>

FASA's selling it as an "Adventure" and describing it as a "Tracked
Adventure" like Mob War and Blood in the Boardroom. However, the book
bears little resemblence to any adventures that FASA has previously
put out, tracked or not.

The book more closely resembles Dunkelzahn's Secrets, in that they're
both suppliments that describe events so momentous that they could
change the world of Shadowrun forever. The information in neither
Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, nor Dunkelzahn's Secrets is presented in
an adventure format, instead there are numerous plot hooks presented
that a GM may base a run off of. I personally classify Renraku
Arcology: Shutdown to be a "Background & Setting" Sourcebook.

Either way, adventure or sourcebook, Renraku Arcology: Shutdown is
described as "compatable with Shadowrun, Third Edition."

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PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 43
From: Anders Swenson <anders@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:01:31 -0800
Lehlan Decker wrote:

> >MitS is due to be published in March.
> Unless they push it back again. Which is odd, considering I'm guessing
> Steve has had it fairly finalized for awhile. Ah well...has anybody
> seen the GM screen out yet? I spoke with a fairly reputable game shop in
> Jacksonville, FL who said it was due last week, but as usual with
> FASA hope it appears before christmas.

I saw the screen itself at my wholesaler Wendesday a week ago. Just the
cardboard, not the eagerly awaited beastary. A Trypiich, 3 adventurer
portraits on the outside, the expectable collection of tables on the inside.
--Anders
Message no. 44
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:40:38 +0100
According to Anders Swenson, at 22:01 on 2 Dec 98, the word on
the street was...

> I saw the screen itself at my wholesaler Wendesday a week ago. Just the
> cardboard, not the eagerly awaited beastary.

That's weird, I got a look at the finished paranimal book before the
screen itself was ready.

> A Trypiich, 3 adventurer portraits on the outside, the expectable
> collection of tables on the inside.

IOW, a fairly standard GM screen.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If I had green hair, I'd dye it.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 45
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: 3rd edition question
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:49:29 -0800
> >Is Renraku Arcology: Shutdown a SR3 sourcebook?
>
> <Clinton>
> It depends on what your definition of "Sourcebook" is.
> </Clinton>
>
Funny. :)

> The book more closely resembles Dunkelzahn's Secrets, in that they're
> both suppliments that describe events so momentous that they could
> change the world of Shadowrun forever. The information in neither
> Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, nor Dunkelzahn's Secrets is presented in
> an adventure format, instead there are numerous plot hooks presented
> that a GM may base a run off of. I personally classify Renraku
> Arcology: Shutdown to be a "Background & Setting" Sourcebook.
>
Cool....I liked DKZ's Secrets...

> Either way, adventure or sourcebook, Renraku Arcology: Shutdown is
> described as "compatable with Shadowrun, Third Edition."
>
Thanks.

-=Toffer=-

Further Reading

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