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Message no. 1
From: S O'Neill callahan421@*******.com
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:35:48 EDT
Allen Versfeld spread the word among the shadows,

>>I like the idea of using Tank Abbot, (For Kam) but I think it couldbe
>>taken
>>further, and use people like Kevin Nash, the Big Show, and Sid Viscous
>>etc.
>>(A tri of near 7 ft wrestlers)
>>Ok, the'd be a little short, but doable I'm sure.

>They'd make great orks, though. And if they acted like we're used to
> >seeing pro wrestlers act, then they'd fit the orcish stereotypes quite
>nicely too :)

Whoa there. ORKS? Orks are (typically) about 6 ft tall and about 200 or so
lbs, according to the Shadowrun source material I've read. Damn, _I_ am
bigger than most orks according to Shadowrun, with a 6'1" frame, tipping the
scales at a bulky 225 (I work out...).

Sure, some of 'em would get up towards 7', but no more than vanilla humans
get people approaching 6'7" ... that is to say, not many.

Besides, if they can make John Travolta into a dreadlocked 7 foot alien
dweeb, they ought to have little trouble making up some 6'10" wrestlers and
pro football types to look like 8 foot-9 foot trogs. Which frees up the ork
roles for people my size. (your dressing room is ready, Callahan...)

Sorry if I seem overly concerned on such a small point, but this is one of
my pet peeves. Yeah, orks are big, monstrous even, but so am I when you put
me in a crowd of asians or hispanics that are a head and a half shorter and
100 lbs lighter.

Cheers,
Callahan
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Message no. 2
From: Bull bull22@*******.com
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:54:06 -0400 (EDT)
At 03:35 PM 8/18/00 -0400, S O'Neill wrote:
>
>Whoa there. ORKS? Orks are (typically) about 6 ft tall and about 200 or so
>lbs, according to the Shadowrun source material I've read. Damn, _I_ am
>bigger than most orks according to Shadowrun, with a 6'1" frame, tipping
the
>scales at a bulky 225 (I work out...).
>
Well... First off, keep in mind how fubared the FASA numbers are... I
mean, go look at how skinny most Trolls would have to be (Skinny? I mean
emaciated! I think their bones alone would weigh more than the "average"
troll weight :))

Check out http://tss.dumpshock.com/html/tss-09/index.htm and find Patrick
Goodman's "How much did you say he weighed?" bit.

Also, I think the average height for an ork is actually a couple inches
above 6' (6'2" or 6'3"... 6'3" according to Patricks info). That's for
the
average...

Now, let's face it, your average Shadowrunner is gonna be above the average
in height and weight and stats. It just workes out that way <shrug>. Sure,
there will be some short ones, but... In the shadows, Size means a lot
(though compared to Trolls... :)).

Using Wrestlers for this would work out well... Most wrestlers tend to be
somewhere in teh neighborhood of 6'6" or around there... Plus they
generally have the mass/muscles that fit Orks.

Bull


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Message no. 3
From: Augustus shadowrun@********.net
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:56:26 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: S O'Neill <callahan421@*******.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 12:35 PM
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)


>
> Whoa there. ORKS? Orks are (typically) about 6 ft tall and about 200 or so
> lbs, according to the Shadowrun source material I've read.
>
> Besides, if they can make John Travolta into a dreadlocked 7 foot alien
> dweeb, they ought to have little trouble making up some 6'10" wrestlers
and
> pro football types to look like 8 foot-9 foot trogs. Which frees up the
ork
> roles for people my size. (your dressing room is ready, Callahan...)

I think it also says that some orks can almost pass for humans in dimly lit
surroundings.

As for size and trolls, that wouldn't be too much of a problem... they can
just use different camera angles or if they really needed to, just film the
'troll' in front of the backdrop, zoom in abit, and have the rest of the
actors stand infront of a blue screen.

Having 'big' people or people in big costumes has never been a problem in
the past in movies... don't see why it would suddenly come up as anything
anybody would worry about.

Augustus
Message no. 4
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@************.com
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:06:41 -0500
From: S O'Neill
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 2:35 PM

> >They'd make great orks, though.
>
> Whoa there. ORKS? Orks are (typically) about 6 ft tall and about 200
> or so lbs, according to the Shadowrun source material I've read.

Read it again. Orks are 190 cm, which is about 6'3" tall, with a body
weight by the book of about 209 pounds.

> Damn, _I_ am bigger than most orks according to Shadowrun, with a 6'1"
> frame, tipping the scales at a bulky 225 (I work out...).

You're about the right size, all right. A little short, but not out of the
range of normality. (For the record, I'm 6'3" or 6'4", depending on who you
ask, and weigh around 230 pounds.)

> Sure, some of 'em would get up towards 7', but no more than vanilla
> humans get people approaching 6'7" ... that is to say, not many.

Actually, a 7' tall ork isn't so far out of the bounds of the normal.
Taller than average, but then again, so am I....

Patrick
Message no. 5
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@************.com
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:08:45 -0500
From: Bull
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:54 PM

> Check out http://tss.dumpshock.com/html/tss-09/index.htm and find
> Patrick Goodman's "How much did you say he weighed?" bit.

Thanks for the props, Bull. He might want to wait for TSS 13, which has the
updated article featuring all the gear I could think of from MAN & MACHINE
in it, though.

Patrick
Message no. 6
From: Paul Collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 22:45:59 +1000
> Whoa there. ORKS? Orks are (typically) about 6 ft tall and about 200 or so
> lbs, according to the Shadowrun source material I've read

Ork avaerage
1.9 Meters, or about 6ft 5
95 Kg, or 210 pd

Trolls, 2.8 Meters or about 9ft
225 Kg or about 500 pds

Straight from Ver 2 and Ver 3 books
Annachie
Message no. 7
From: Steve Collins einan@*********.net
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 00 22:06:05 -0500
On 8/18/00 2:35 pm, S O'Neill said:

}}snip suggestion to use Wrestlers for Orcs{{


>
>Whoa there. ORKS? Orks are (typically) about 6 ft tall and about 200 or so
>lbs, according to the Shadowrun source material I've read. Damn, _I_ am
>bigger than most orks according to Shadowrun, with a 6'1" frame, tipping the
>scales at a bulky 225 (I work out...).

Gee you're a little guy and I don't even have to work out (I shudder to
think what I would look like if I did).

>
>Sure, some of 'em would get up towards 7', but no more than vanilla humans
>get people approaching 6'7" ... that is to say, not many.


Doesn't matter, most actors are on the tall side (Tom Cruise not
withstanding), do you know how tall a guy is in a movie? Nope you don't,
you get a sense of it from how tall he is compared to the background but
that's only a guess to within a few inches. So if the "human" actor is
6'1" then the "orc" actor will need to be about 6'7" to appear to be
the
correct relative height. You get a similar problem with weight so
Wrestlers would look just about right.

>
>Besides, if they can make John Travolta into a dreadlocked 7 foot alien
>dweeb, they ought to have little trouble making up some 6'10" wrestlers and
>pro football types to look like 8 foot-9 foot trogs. Which frees up the ork
>roles for people my size. (your dressing room is ready, Callahan...)

Nope not as easy as that, Height isn't the biggest problem, it's the Body
Proportions. When I called you a little guy I wasn't kidding, I'm 6'3"
and weigh 375. Sounds like a fat overweight slob right? Nope, I'm about
50 lbs overweight because my job doesn;t give me the time I need to work
out on a regular basis. But if I did, I'd look every bit as muscular as
your 225 weighing 325. I can do this because my shoulders are huge (over
25" across), I just barely fit through normal house sized doors (maybe
I'm a Spike Baby Orc?) but even still I do not come close to the body
proportions of a Troll. Look at how they are drawn, Their legs are too
short, their shoulders are too wide, their arms are too long, etc. Make
me Troll Sized and increase the rest of my body proportionally and I end
up with Shoulders that are about 36" across, the average Troll seems by
the drawings seems to have shoulders that are about 60" across. Even if
there were to be a small troll who was only about Orc Size you would be
able to tell the difference because their bodies are so differently
shaped.

You could solve these problems by having your actors wear costumes but
they wouldn;t look as good and CGI animation is becoming cheap enough
that it would actually be competitave with Costumes in cost too.

Steve

>
>Sorry if I seem overly concerned on such a small point, but this is one of
>my pet peeves. Yeah, orks are big, monstrous even, but so am I when you put
>me in a crowd of asians or hispanics that are a head and a half shorter and
>100 lbs lighter.
>
>Cheers,
>Callahan
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
Message no. 8
From: Allen Versfeld moe@*******.com
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:37:59 +0200
S O'Neill wrote:
>
> Allen Versfeld spread the word among the shadows,
>
> >>I like the idea of using Tank Abbot, (For Kam) but I think it couldbe
> >>taken
> >>further, and use people like Kevin Nash, the Big Show, and Sid Viscous
> >>etc.
> >>(A tri of near 7 ft wrestlers)
> >>Ok, the'd be a little short, but doable I'm sure.
>
> >They'd make great orks, though. And if they acted like we're used to
> > >seeing pro wrestlers act, then they'd fit the orcish stereotypes quite
> >nicely too :)
>
> Whoa there. ORKS? Orks are (typically) about 6 ft tall and about 200 or so

Yes - Typically. I consider myself to be a fairly typical human, standing 5'11, and
looking about 150 lbs (I'm much lighter than that, but I've decided that looks count more
*g*), but a friend of mine who worked as a bouncer stands 6'4, and weighs about 220 lbs.
Another stands 7', and I don't even want to speculate as to his weight (but he played
rugby professionally for a while).

The thing is, they're *not* typical - they're very above average, which is one reason
they've succeeded, or even been employed in their particular careers. So, I'd expect an
ork street sam to also be hugely above average
--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.com

"As a computer, I find your faith in technology to be quite amusing"
Message no. 9
From: Yiannakos yiannako@*******.edu
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:29:09 -0400
Paul Collins wrote:
>
> > Whoa there. ORKS? Orks are (typically) about 6 ft tall and about 200 or so
> > lbs, according to the Shadowrun source material I've read
>
> Ork avaerage
> 1.9 Meters, or about 6ft 5
> 95 Kg, or 210 pd

Wow. That means that your average ork is an inch taller than me, but I
outweigh him/her by over sixty pounds, and I'm not especially chubby.

Abe Lincoln's disease, anyone? :-)

---Dave ('s not here man)
Message no. 10
From: Bull bull@***********.com
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:10:29 -0400
At 01:29 PM 8/21/00 -0400, Yiannakos wrote:
>
>> Ork avaerage
>> 1.9 Meters, or about 6ft 5
>> 95 Kg, or 210 pd
>
>Wow. That means that your average ork is an inch taller than me, but I
>outweigh him/her by over sixty pounds, and I'm not especially chubby.
>
>Abe Lincoln's disease, anyone? :-)
>
As I mentioned before, FASA's really screwy on their heights/weights.
Check out Patrick's article on it in The Shadowrun Supplemental
http://tss.dumpshock.com/html/tss-09/index.htm though he said he's gonna
revise it to inlcude some cyber stuff, I believe...

Bull

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Message no. 11
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:50:58 -0700 (PDT)
> Ork avaerage
> 1.9 Meters, or about 6ft 5
> 95 Kg, or 210 pd

As someone has pointed out, 1.9 is actually 6'3". I
should know - I'm about 6'5". :) Your weight's right,
though.

> Trolls, 2.8 Meters or about 9ft
> 225 Kg or about 500 pds
> Annachie

9'2" and 496lbs.

Just to be (more) accurate. :)

*Doc' flashes Annachie, revealing rather disgusting
spandex tights...

"Pedantic (Wo)Man strikes again!!!"*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 12
From: Paul Collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:32:39 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: Yiannakos <yiannako@*******.edu>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: 7ft orks? (Was SR Casting Couch)


> Paul Collins wrote:
> >
> > > Whoa there. ORKS? Orks are (typically) about 6 ft tall and about 200
or so
> > > lbs, according to the Shadowrun source material I've read
> >
> > Ork avaerage
> > 1.9 Meters, or about 6ft 5
> > 95 Kg, or 210 pd
>
> Wow. That means that your average ork is an inch taller than me, but I
> outweigh him/her by over sixty pounds, and I'm not especially chubby.
>
> Abe Lincoln's disease, anyone? :-)
>
> ---Dave ('s not here man)

I know. Me, I'm 5'9" or so and weigh about 90 Kg, (about 20Kg over what I
played Footy at) Orks is light for their height and build.

Annachie

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