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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:04:57 +0000 (GMT)
And verily, did Patrick Driggett hastily scribble thusly...

Just a LITTLE warning to all my fellow shadowrners out there...

Today, I got a message from someone asking if I wanted to.... Hell, I'll let
you read it....

Just cut here (sounds of snipping), and a paste here.... (splosh)...

View this little person with the contempt and pitty he deserves...
(But try to avoid joining his list, he's the type who'd give shadowrun a bad
name...)

I may post my reply to this, to further embarrass him, later...

|At 03:49 PM 3/21/99 +0000, you wrote:
|>And verily, did Patrick Driggett hastily scribble thusly...
|>|
|>|Hi there,
|>| Please let me tell you of a new Shadowrun mailing list. The name of the
|>|list is shadowrun@********.com if you wish to join just e-mail me at
|>|psychopat@***.gulf.net or visit www.coollist.com. The list covers all
|>|topics fun and serious, from rules to jokes, to any thing you can think of.
|>| Please help this list grow and join today!
|>
|>1> I never *EVER* respond to SPAMMERS like yourself with my patronage.
|> (Or to put it in words of two syllables, Spammers can go and screw
|> themselves...)
|>
|>and
|>
|>2> I happen to be on the definative shadowrun mailing list as it is. Why
|> would I want to join an inferior copy?

|this was not a spam, i was just asking a friendly question. But i can see
|that maybe i shouldn't have ask you because you are a complete asshole.
|your head is so far up your ass you had to get a pap smear on your mouth.
|
|i was being nice so why don't you go fuck yourself. And your holier than
|thou complex needs to go away, because you're not God and i've never even
|heard of your lame ass. maybe you should change your attitude towards
|people who have a common interest with you. I thought maybe, just maybe
|you would like more of a good thing.
|
| Have a nice day!
| Patrick
|
|
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste! |
| Andrew Halliwell | I can SMELL!!! KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and |
| Finalist in:- | get out the puncture repair kit!" |
| Computer Science | Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.12 GCS>$ d-(dpu) s+/- a C++ US++ P L/L+ E-- W+ N++ o+ K PS+ w-- M+/++ |
|PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ X+/X++ R+ tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e>e++ h/h+ !r!| Space for hire |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 2
From: Michael Berman jberman@*****.com
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:39:05 -0500
|At 03:49 PM 3/21/99 +0000, you wrote:
|>And verily, did Patrick Driggett hastily scribble thusly...
|>|
|>|Hi there,
|>| Please let me tell you of a new Shadowrun mailing list. The name of the
|>|list is shadowrun@********.com if you wish to join just e-mail me at
|>|psychopat@***.gulf.net or visit www.coollist.com. The list covers all
|>|topics fun and serious, from rules to jokes, to any thing you can think
of.
|>| Please help this list grow and join today!
|>
|>1> I never *EVER* respond to SPAMMERS like yourself with my patronage.
|> (Or to put it in words of two syllables, Spammers can go and screw
|> themselves...)
|>
|>and
|>
|>2> I happen to be on the definative shadowrun mailing list as it is. Why
|> would I want to join an inferior copy?

|this was not a spam, i was just asking a friendly question. But i can see
|that maybe i shouldn't have ask you because you are a complete asshole.
|your head is so far up your ass you had to get a pap smear on your mouth.
|
|i was being nice so why don't you go fuck yourself. And your holier than
|thou complex needs to go away, because you're not God and i've never even
|heard of your lame ass. maybe you should change your attitude towards
|people who have a common interest with you. I thought maybe, just maybe
|you would like more of a good thing.
|
| Have a nice day!
| Patrick
|
|

Holy Crud this guy really has his head screwed on backwards,
This guy (who wrote such a vehement return mail) needs to learn that the
english language has many many many words other than those of 4-letters to
express annoyance, anger and the like. I dont want to sound pretentious
anything and i cuss myself sometimes when im really p/o'd but this guy takes
it to the point of disdain. As the proverd goes, *begin chinese shao-lin
dialectish thingy* "You can attract more flies with honey than with
vinegar." *end shao-lion dialect thingy*
Although i personally would NOT want to respond that way I have to say in
his defense, he was prolly quite insulted by the way he was responded too.
So overall try to talk with less 4 letter words and more thought!

"God is relative to what you think" - Ansarok
Message no. 3
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:55:03 +0000 (GMT)
And verily, did Michael Berman hastily scribble thusly...
|Although i personally would NOT want to respond that way I have to say in
|his defense, he was prolly quite insulted by the way he was responded too.
|So overall try to talk with less 4 letter words and more thought!

Really? And there was I, thinking I was being unusually polite to the
spamming little *&*^....

What was so insulting about my reply?
(You haven't read my reply to THAT ONE yet....)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 4
From: GRANITE granite@**.net
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:20:49 -0700
Andrew..Shame on you..

I also received that email..I choose not to join simpy because I get
quite enough email as it is..But your reply was uncalled for..As is
your posting of your subsequent messages here..At least Partick kept
his message Private..and he was polite as well..
In my opinion Patrick was simply displaying a little class sending
the message to individuals instead of to the list..

> View this little person with the contempt and pitty he deserves...
> (But try to avoid joining his list, he's the type who'd give shadowrun a bad
> name...)
> I may post my reply to this, to further embarrass him, later...

The only one you have suceeded in embarassing is yourself here..

> |>1> I never *EVER* respond to SPAMMERS like yourself with my patronage.
> |> (Or to put it in words of two syllables, Spammers can go and screw
> |> themselves...)
> |>2> I happen to be on the definative shadowrun mailing list as it is. Why
> |> would I want to join an inferior copy?
>

Look at how you replied to a friendly message on a topic you already
like..you flamed him..was that called for..I say no..A simple
delete..or a reply of 'Thanks but no thanks' ...but not go screw
yourself..It is no wonder he flamed back..If I were in his position I
would not have responded in that manner as it shows a lack of
maturity..So perhaps this Patrick kid lacks some maturity..but does
that warrant airing dirty laundry here on the list..again I so no it
doesn't..I think you owe the ilst something...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
==============================================Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The
Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
==============================================Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 5
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:00:49 +0000 (GMT)
And verily, did GRANITE hastily scribble thusly...
|Look at how you replied to a friendly message on a topic you already
|like..you flamed him..was that called for..I say no..

I say yes. Spam is spam, no matter the subject, and his reply only proved
how immature he was.

A simple
|delete..or a reply of 'Thanks but no thanks' ...but not go screw
|yourself..It is no wonder he flamed back..If I were in his position I
|would not have responded in that manner as it shows a lack of
|maturity..So perhaps this Patrick kid lacks some maturity..but does
|that warrant airing dirty laundry here on the list..again I so no it
|doesn't..I think you owe the ilst something...

Just thought I'd "air the dirty laundry" to warn people of him, that's all.

If I got an e-mail offering me links to web pages with loads of linux
software, I'd react the same way.


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 6
From: GMPax@***.com GMPax@***.com
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:15:42 EST
In a message dated 3/21/99 4:26:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, granite@**.net
writes:

> If I were in his position I
> would not have responded in that manner as it shows a lack of
> maturity..So perhaps this Patrick kid lacks some maturity..but does
> that warrant airing dirty laundry here on the list..again I so no it
> doesn't..I think you owe the ilst something...

Which is a point to keep in mind for us all: some SR players out there _are_
kids, as young as 10 or 12 perhaps. A small bit of leeway given, when the
age/maturity/etc of the person on the other end, might be a good idea.

Patrick sounds, from BOTH the emails, to be on the younger side, perhaps in
High School even (age 14 to about 17). I can well imagine a harsh reply
setting off every fuse in a kid that general age. :-) No offense, but, the
"thanks, but no thanks, the ShadowRN list is enough for me and _is_ the
primary list for the game, anyway" would have been better, IMHO.

Mind, while I can understand the profanity, neither do I condone it. However,
this list was _not_ the place to echo a private email. TECHNICALLY you aren't
supposed to redistribute private mail, by any means, without the consent of
the original sender; it's a copyright issue: nit picking of me to point it
out, but, there it is.

Solve it in private email. TRUST me, I know from firsthand experience, taking
it public helps noone, and hurts _everyone_. :-)

Sean
GM Pax
Message no. 7
From: GMPax@***.com GMPax@***.com
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:27:09 EST
In a message dated 3/21/99 12:55:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk writes:

>
> Really? And there was I, thinking I was being unusually polite to the
> spamming little *&*^....
>
> What was so insulting about my reply?
> (You haven't read my reply to THAT ONE yet....)

No offense, but, I agree, you were a shade harsh with him. You wanted to know
how and why?

Well, here's a direct cut-and-paste of your reply to the initial message, as
you posted it:

|>
|>1> I never *EVER* respond to SPAMMERS like yourself with my patronage.
|> (Or to put it in words of two syllables, Spammers can go and screw
|> themselves...)
|>
|>and
|>
|>2> I happen to be on the definative shadowrun mailing list as it is. Why
|> would I want to join an inferior copy?

Hmm. "spammers can go screw themselves" following "spammers like
you." In
essence, you said "go screw yourself," which can _hardly_ be deemed polite.

You also, _sight_unseen_, described this kid's mailing list as "an inferior
copy." Who says it's invariably inferior? Who says it's ONLY a copy? There
is a lot of room for SR mailing lists in the world, and a lot to discuss about
SR. Patricks list may be _smaller_ but size and quality do not _always_
proceed hand-in-hand. TRUST me, I am on AOL and know this directly. <g>

While not _scathing_ your reply was hardly friendly or polite. Yes, the kid
overreacted to it, with his profanity ... but he may just BE a kid; could you
really blame some 12 to 15 year old for getting ticked at recieving a personal
insult or two, for no good reason?

Anyway. I think you were _both_ in the wrong. As for his mail being spam ...
he sent you a personal note, asking if you would be interested in another
mailing list, like the one you were already on. _My_ definition of Spam does
not include that ... it was a logical question to ask, since he had _seen_
your name on the list.

And, it wasn't a mass mailing. _I_ got no such email from him; IMO he picked
out people who seemed to have a good volume, perhaps had made points or posts
he found interesting, and asked them, specifically, to join his list as well.
Spam, in my book, is not JUST unwanted or unsought advertising (MOST adverts
are unwanted/unsought after all), but is also: <a> Mass Mailed, and sent
anonymously, and from an account that is immediately deleted upon completion
of the mailing. This kid used his personal email account, and is still there
on the other end, so neither of those two points qualify. Unsought yes, and
unwanted, _obviously_. Advertisement, yes. Anonymous, NO. From a
"Disappearing SAN" style email address, NO.

Not enough points in my book. :-)

Meaning no direct offense of course....

Sean
GM Pax
Message no. 8
From: Tim Kerby drekhead@***.net
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:49:01 -0500
On 22 Mar 99, at 0:00, A Halliwell wrote:

> Just thought I'd "air the dirty laundry" to warn people of him, that's
> all.
>
> If I got an e-mail offering me links to web pages with loads of linux
> software, I'd react the same way.

Man, Spike, no wonder your hair stands up with your blood pressure so
high. :)
Chill out. Delete the message and move on. Jeez. Your reaction and
the time you spend stewing over it are more insidious than the
message itself. Every heard the phrase "Shit happens?" Well, today's
internet version is "Spam happens." Delete it and move on. You'll be
happier in the end.

--

================================================================ - Tim Kerby -
drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 9
From: Patrick Driggett psychopat@***.gulf.net
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:05:40 -0600
To everyone on the list and especially to Andrew...
I am very sincerely sorry

I consider a spammer someone who solicites (sorry for the spelling)
something off topic to the reader. I just thought that someone interested
in Shadowrun would like to see more of Shadowrun. I only wished to be
nice. Yes, I will admit my response was immature, but I let my temper and
attitude get the best of me and I went off. But I am trying to make up for
that and be a better person. I was having kind of a bad day, and saying
"screw you" was not what I needed. If all Andrew would of said was no
thank you I would have never written to him again, but my action was
unexcusable and I owe you an apology Andrew...Again i am sorry. If you
would forgive me you would be a greater man than I.

Thank you,
Patrick

At 02:20 PM 3/21/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Andrew..Shame on you..
>
>I also received that email..I choose not to join simpy because I get
>quite enough email as it is..But your reply was uncalled for..As is
>your posting of your subsequent messages here..At least Partick kept
>his message Private..and he was polite as well..
>In my opinion Patrick was simply displaying a little class sending
>the message to individuals instead of to the list..
>
>> View this little person with the contempt and pitty he deserves...
>> (But try to avoid joining his list, he's the type who'd give shadowrun a
bad
>> name...)
>> I may post my reply to this, to further embarrass him, later...
>
>The only one you have suceeded in embarassing is yourself here..
>
>> |>1> I never *EVER* respond to SPAMMERS like yourself with my patronage.
>> |> (Or to put it in words of two syllables, Spammers can go and screw
>> |> themselves...)
>> |>2> I happen to be on the definative shadowrun mailing list as it is. Why
>> |> would I want to join an inferior copy?
>>
>
>Look at how you replied to a friendly message on a topic you already
>like..you flamed him..was that called for..I say no..A simple
>delete..or a reply of 'Thanks but no thanks' ...but not go screw
>yourself..It is no wonder he flamed back..If I were in his position I
>would not have responded in that manner as it shows a lack of
>maturity..So perhaps this Patrick kid lacks some maturity..but does
>that warrant airing dirty laundry here on the list..again I so no it
>doesn't..I think you owe the ilst something...
>--------------------------------GRANITE
> "Rock Steady"
>==============================================>Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To
Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
>The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
>And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
>Because They Pissed Me Off.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
>==============================================>Understanding is a three edged
sword. - Kosh
>What is best in life?
>To Crush Your Enemies,
>See Them Driven Before You,
>And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
>I Am The LAW! -JD
>Jamais Arriere
>
>
Message no. 10
From: Scott Peterson lrdmtlyn@**********.com
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:20:55 -0700
Patrick Driggett wrote:>
> At 02:20 PM 3/21/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Andrew..Shame on you..
> >
> >I also received that email..I choose not to join simpy because I get
> >quite enough email as it is..But your reply was uncalled for..As is
> >your posting of your subsequent messages here..At least Partick kept
> >his message Private..and he was polite as well..
> >In my opinion Patrick was simply displaying a little class sending
> >the message to individuals instead of to the list..

The thing I don't understand was if it was sent privately why was it
addressed here in the first place:) Again as was the case in my
enthusiasm, and desire to help promote the game and expand the ways we
enjoy it,
for the Talk City Shadowrun someone trying to promote the game in all
its incarnations has been torched. Can't we all work and play well with
others to promote the game? And learn to educate versus flaming? Fact
is we spend time torching each other than helping in a combined effort
to spread the word and let others enjoy Shadowrun in all its
incarnations.

<Gets off his soap box> education's is the key guys lets open doors

Scott
Message no. 11
From: Dave Post caelric@****.com
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:25:49 -0800
At 09:20 PM 3/21/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>The thing I don't understand was if it was sent privately why was it
>addressed here in the first place:) Again as was the case in my
>enthusiasm, and desire to help promote the game and expand the ways we
>enjoy it,
>for the Talk City Shadowrun someone trying to promote the game in all
>its incarnations has been torched. Can't we all work and play well with
>others to promote the game? And learn to educate versus flaming? Fact
>is we spend time torching each other than helping in a combined effort
>to spread the word and let others enjoy Shadowrun in all its
>incarnations.
>
><Gets off his soap box> education's is the key guys lets open doors
>
>Scott
>


Might I say, Scott, that you either a. have learned to spell much better,
or b. have a good spell checker...

;)

Dave
Message no. 12
From: Patrick Driggett psychopat@***.gulf.net
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:28:14 -0600
Good point, lets all forget about the bad things


At 09:20 PM 3/21/99 -0700, you wrote:
>The thing I don't understand was if it was sent privately why was it
>addressed here in the first place:) Again as was the case in my
>enthusiasm, and desire to help promote the game and expand the ways we
>enjoy it,
>for the Talk City Shadowrun someone trying to promote the game in all
>its incarnations has been torched. Can't we all work and play well with
>others to promote the game? And learn to educate versus flaming? Fact
>is we spend time torching each other than helping in a combined effort
>to spread the word and let others enjoy Shadowrun in all its
>incarnations.
>
><Gets off his soap box> education's is the key guys lets open doors
>
>Scott
>
>
Message no. 13
From: Scott Peterson lrdmtlyn@**********.com
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:49:27 -0700
> Might I say, Scott, that you either a. have learned to spell much better,
> or b. have a good spell checker...
>
Got netscape 4.51 and imported all my email....:)

Ready to rake some hell now:)

Scott
Message no. 14
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:24:20 +0000 (GMT)
And verily, did Tim Kerby hastily scribble thusly...
|Man, Spike, no wonder your hair stands up with your blood pressure so
|high. :)
|Chill out.

Not too easy at the moment...
I'm in stressed finalist mode.
(deadlines/final exams in less than a month/10,000 word project report +
project to complete... You know how it is...)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 15
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: ALERT: Spammer in shadowrun mailing list biz...
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:27:47 +0000 (GMT)
And verily, did Patrick Driggett hastily scribble thusly...
|
|To everyone on the list and especially to Andrew...
|I am very sincerely sorry
|
|I consider a spammer someone who solicites (sorry for the spelling)
|something off topic to the reader. I just thought that someone interested
|in Shadowrun would like to see more of Shadowrun. I only wished to be
|nice. Yes, I will admit my response was immature, but I let my temper and
|attitude get the best of me and I went off. But I am trying to make up for
|that and be a better person. I was having kind of a bad day, and saying
|"screw you" was not what I needed. If all Andrew would of said was no
|thank you I would have never written to him again, but my action was
|unexcusable and I owe you an apology Andrew...Again i am sorry. If you
|would forgive me you would be a greater man than I.

That's more like it.
I accept your apology. I admit that I overreacted a bit myself, but I am in
(as I said in another post) stressed finalist/deadlines/deadlines/deadlines
mode at the moment.)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

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