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Message no. 1
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Ammunition Weights
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:28:36 +0000
Anyone ever wonder why Shadowrun ammunition was so heavy?

Out of militaristic interest, I ran the numbers of some real-life
ammunition, and this is what you get:

Weight per round Weight per 10 rounds
7.62mm 0.03 0.3
9mm 0.02 0.2
5.56mm 0.01 0.11
.22LR 0.00 0.03
12-gauge shotgun 0.08 0.8


To give the modified SR rules which I make:

Weight per 10 rounds
Holdout, Light Pistol 0.1
Heavy Pistol, SMG 0.2
Assault Rifle, LMG 0.1
Sporting Rifle, MMG, Sniper Rifle 0.3
Shotgun 0.75
Heavy MG 0.5
Assault Cannon 1.25

Comments?
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 2
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:43:35 EST
On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:28:36 +0000 "Paul J. Adam"
<shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
>Anyone ever wonder why Shadowrun ammunition was so heavy?
>
>Out of militaristic interest, I ran the numbers of some real-life
>ammunition, and this is what you get:
>
> Weight per round Weight per 10 rounds
>7.62mm 0.03 0.3
>9mm 0.02 0.2
>5.56mm 0.01 0.11
>.22LR 0.00 0.03
>12-gauge shotgun 0.08 0.8
>
>
>To give the modified SR rules which I make:
>
> Weight per 10 rounds
>Holdout, Light Pistol 0.1
>Heavy Pistol, SMG 0.2
>Assault Rifle, LMG 0.1
>Sporting Rifle, MMG, Sniper Rifle 0.3
>Shotgun 0.75
>Heavy MG 0.5
>Assault Cannon 1.25
>
>Comments?

Only one: Aren't the clips also running a little heavy(I guess I just
think that a little over a pound and a half is a bit much for a piece of
stamped metal)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 3
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:07:47 -0700
At 19:43 2/25/97 EST, L Canthros wrote:

>Only one: Aren't the clips also running a little heavy(I guess I just
>think that a little over a pound and a half is a bit much for a piece of
>stamped metal)

I don't shoot guns much, ok, so only twice in my life. (Pistols aren't
illegal up here, but you need a legit purpose to own one, mainly target
shooting, and I'm not interesting in rifle hunting and suchlike, leave poor
bambi alone!: )
I did get the chance to fire a pistol this summer while visiting the
states, and I was suprised how much it and the clip did weigh. A pound and
a half may be a bit much, but its an effective way of reducing munchies
like this:

Player: 'Oh, I have 20 clips of ammo in my backback'
GM: 'Ok..thats 24 pounds, so you're having trouble moving through the sewer
pipe, and did I mention that awful rusting noise that echo's like hell?

-Adam
Message no. 4
From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:59:37 -0500
You wrote:
> Anyone ever wonder why Shadowrun ammunition was so heavy?

> Out of militaristic interest, I ran the numbers of some real-life
> ammunition, and this is what you get:

> Weight per round Weight per 10 rounds
> 7.62mm 0.03 0.3
> 9mm 0.02 0.2
> 5.56mm 0.01 0.11
> .22LR 0.00 0.03
> 12-gauge shotgun 0.08 0.8


> To give the modified SR rules which I make:

> Weight per 10 rounds
> Holdout, Light Pistol 0.1
> Heavy Pistol, SMG 0.2
> Assault Rifle, LMG 0.1
> Sporting Rifle, MMG, Sniper Rifle 0.3
> Shotgun 0.75
> Heavy MG 0.5
> Assault Cannon 1.25

> Comments?
> --

One quick question. Are these weights in pounds or kilograms? I'm
guessing they're in kilos as the weights would seem to be awfully small in
pounds. Just curious. Thanks.

-The Immortal Mental
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:23:35 +0100
L Canthros said on 19:43/25 Feb 97...

> Only one: Aren't the clips also running a little heavy(I guess I just
> think that a little over a pound and a half is a bit much for a piece of
> stamped metal)

An empty, 20-round magazine for a FAL rifle (L1A1 to the British among
us) weighs about 250 grams, or a third of the SR weight of a spare clip
(SRII p.260).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'm not a philosopher, I only have a highschool diploma.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:23:35 +0100
Paul J. Adam said on 19:28/25 Feb 97...

> Anyone ever wonder why Shadowrun ammunition was so heavy?

Maybe they come packaged in special containers that serve as heat sinks
against fire? :)

> To give the modified SR rules which I make:
>
> Weight per 10 rounds
> Holdout, Light Pistol 0.1
> Heavy Pistol, SMG 0.2
> Assault Rifle, LMG 0.1
> Sporting Rifle, MMG, Sniper Rifle 0.3
> Shotgun 0.75
> Heavy MG 0.5
> Assault Cannon 1.25
>
> Comments?

Looks good enough to me, though if you want to use these numbers, I'd say
add .1 or .2 kg to HMG rounds. I came across a WWII .50 cal bullet
recently, and it alone weighs about 35 to 40 grams, and an empty
cartridge case is around half that (he says, trying to compare their
weights by guesstimate).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'm not a philosopher, I only have a highschool diploma.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:38:01 +0000
> > Holdout, Light Pistol 0.1
> > Assault Rifle, LMG 0.1


Sooo umm.... like... assault RIFLE ammo and say.. my .22 ammo...
weight the same? *chuckle* That seems kinda... weird..

Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
HTTP://www.datanet.ab.ca/users/hardware
http://wwp.mirabilis.com/360126 for my ICQ Pager
Message no. 8
From: Eric Hall <esh7695@******.SDSMT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:32:23 +0000
Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.ab.ca> wrote...
> > > Holdout, Light Pistol 0.1
> > > Assault Rifle, LMG 0.1
>
>
> Sooo umm.... like... assault RIFLE ammo and say.. my .22 ammo...
> weight the same? *chuckle* That seems kinda... weird..
>

Actually... yeah. An M-16A2 (AR) and M-249 (SAW basically a light machine
gun) both fire 5.56 NATO ammunition. A 5.56mm round = .223 caliber.

A round from an M-16 is slightly heavier than a .22 round, but not very
much. Ten rounds of either probably weigh about the same.

Rone

----------------------------------------------
Eric Hall esh7695@******.sdsmt.edu
Visit my Shadowrun Page:
http://www.geocities.com/TimeSquare/Alley/1875
Message no. 9
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:12:37 -0500
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>>>>> "e" == esh7695 <esh7695@******.sdsmt.edu> writes:

e> Actually... yeah. An M-16A2 (AR) and M-249 (SAW basically a light machine
e> gun) both fire 5.56 NATO ammunition. A 5.56mm round = .223 caliber.

Yeah, but the 5.56mm NATO slug is a good three to five times longer than
.22LR. The case is also much larger, holding much more propellant.

However, a 5.56mm NATO slug is approximately the same mass as a 9mm NATO
pistol slug (actually, a bit less). The case (and propellant volume) are
closer, too (though the rifle round is still bigger).

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--
Rat <ratinox@******.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:52:40 +0100
Shane Courtrille said on 12:38/26 Jan 01...

> > > Holdout, Light Pistol 0.1
> > > Assault Rifle, LMG 0.1
>
> Sooo umm.... like... assault RIFLE ammo and say.. my .22 ammo...
> weight the same? *chuckle* That seems kinda... weird..

Paul has rounded the figures a bit, of course. Compendium Of Modern
Firearms (by Talsorian Games) gives a mass of 3.5 grams for a .22LR (LR =
Long Rifle) round, so ten would weigh 0.035 kg -- in SR, whose lowest
unit of mass seems to be 0.1 kg, that would round to 0. Rounding up to 0.1
kg sounds reasonable to me.

A 5.56x45 mm assault rifle round, again according to COMF, is 11.9 grams,
so ten rounds would be 0.119 kg, rounding to 0.1 kg as well.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'm not a philosopher, I only have a highschool diploma.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 11
From: David Wangen <wangendb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:10:17 -0800
>> > Holdout, Light Pistol 0.1
>> > Assault Rifle, LMG 0.1
>
>
>Sooo umm.... like... assault RIFLE ammo and say.. my .22 ammo...
>weight the same? *chuckle* That seems kinda... weird..
>
>Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
>HTTP://www.datanet.ab.ca/users/hardware
>http://wwp.mirabilis.com/360126 for my ICQ Pager
>

Well, considering that the M-16 IS a .22 caliber weapon (.223), it makes
perfect sense to me.


C4C David B. Wangen
"Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about
because the U.S. was too strong." -- Ronald Reagan
CS-25 United States Air Force Academy

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Message no. 12
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:10:05 +0000
In message <01IFUOA3R6KA9N5CAA@******.acs.muohio.edu>,
TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU writes
> One quick question. Are these weights in pounds or kilograms?

Kilograms, as per standard SR. Use as guidelines, not as hard-and-fast,
and that only if you're interested :)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 13
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Ammunition Weights
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:22:27 +0000
In message <199702261938.MAA28853@*******.datanet.ab.ca>, Shane
Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes
>> > Holdout, Light Pistol 0.1
>> > Assault Rifle, LMG 0.1
>
>
>Sooo umm.... like... assault RIFLE ammo and say.. my .22 ammo...
>weight the same? *chuckle* That seems kinda... weird..

Limits of accuracy :)

Seriously, compare the two. The main weight in any round is the bullet,
and a 5.56mm bullet is about the same size as a .22LR: longer and more
pointed, but there's actually about as much lead in a .22 bullet because
it's a bluff cylinder rather than a spitzer.

It's scary how little three or four hundred rounds of 5.56mm ammo weighs
when you're wearing it: a thirty-round magazine of 5.56 seems to weigh
no more than a 13-round clip of .45ACP (which _I_ shoot :) )

Assault rifle ammo is _light_. It has to be, soldiers get through so
much of it.


--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Further Reading

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