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Message no. 1
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Barriers'n'stuff - Steve K, a question.
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
> > An astral barrier will stop a spell - but it won't
stop the effect, will it? Or would it block an area
combat spell's effect, but not a damaging manipulation
one's?
>
> I'd say: use the normal rules for breaking through
barriers. If the attacking spell is powerful enough to
get through the Barrier spell, then anyone on the
other side can be affected (provided there is LOS, for
combat spells) but with a reduced Power Level.
> Gurth@******.nl

So you're saying that an astral barrier, because it
stops magic on an astral level, will block the area
effect of a combat spell (even a physical one?), which
I can see, AND that of a damaging manipulation - which
as I understand it is a purely physical thing -
because they're both the consequence of a spell?

I can certainly see stopping the combat spell, but the
DM, as I said, seems to be purely physical ONCE IT HAS
GONE OFF - otherwise armour couldn't help against it,
could it? So upon reflection, I'd say that the astral
barrier could stop the spell getting to its
destination, no matter what kind it is, but if it gets
through and goes off, it would only block the effect
of a combat spell, not a DM.

That would be my interpretation - unless you can
convince me otherwise. :)

Oh, and I'd also go with the spell fizzling out unless
it reaches its designated target theorem. Makes sense
to me.

Steve K., what's your interpretation on the matter?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Barriers'n'stuff - Steve K, a question.
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:45:24 +0200
According to Rand Ratinac, at 19:48 on 27 Sep 99, the word on
the street was...

> I can certainly see stopping the combat spell, but the DM, as I said,
> seems to be purely physical ONCE IT HAS GONE OFF - otherwise armour
> couldn't help against it, could it? So upon reflection, I'd say that the
> astral barrier could stop the spell getting to its destination, no matter
> what kind it is, but if it gets through and goes off, it would only
> block the effect of a combat spell, not a DM.

Only if the DM goes off _inside_ the Barrier. If the target of the spell
(i.e. the one at the center of the blast) is outside the Barrier spell,
the Barrier could stop the DM's effects.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Het is een boek om in het donker te lezen.
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Message no. 3
From: TalonMail@***.com TalonMail@***.com
Subject: Barriers'n'stuff - Steve K, a question.
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:19:54 EDT
[discussion re: astral barriers and spellcasting snipped]
>Steve K., what's your interpretation on the matter?

The official rule says an astral barrier adds its force to the TN of any
spell cast across it. If a spell simply intersects a barrier (e.g. you're
tossing a fireball and some of the targets happen to be behind a ward) then
that's how I handle it; the spell's TN is increased by the barrier's Force.

If you're specifically trying to break through an astral barrier in astral
combat, see the rules for doing so in the SR3 magic chapter.

Your milage may, of course, vary.
Steve
-----
Talon Studio
http://members.aol.com/talonmail
Message no. 4
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Barriers'n'stuff - Steve K, a question.
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:39:18 -0700 (PDT)
> > I can certainly see stopping the combat spell, but
the DM, as I said, seems to be purely physical ONCE IT
HAS GONE OFF - otherwise armour couldn't help against
it, could it? So upon reflection, I'd say that the
astral barrier could stop the spell getting to its
destination, no matter what kind it is, but if it gets
through and goes off, it would only block the effect
of a combat spell, not a DM.
>
> Only if the DM goes off _inside_ the Barrier. If the
target of the spell (i.e. the one at the center of the
blast) is outside the Barrier spell, the Barrier could
stop the DM's effects.
> Gurth@******.nl

But why? As I said, as far as I can tell, as soon as
the DM spell has gone off, the actually effect (the
explosion, the acid, the lightning, whatever) is a
purely physical phenomenon. Although GENERATED by
magic, it itself is not magical (or am I wrong?). Thus
how could an astral barrier have any effect on it?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 5
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Barriers'n'stuff - Steve K, a question.
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:11:59 EDT
In a message dated 9/28/1999 10:23:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>
> But why? As I said, as far as I can tell, as soon as
> the DM spell has gone off, the actually effect (the
> explosion, the acid, the lightning, whatever) is a
> purely physical phenomenon. Although GENERATED by
> magic, it itself is not magical (or am I wrong?). Thus
> how could an astral barrier have any effect on it?

Doc', I've had this discussion with lots of people, and I'm sure you have as
well. Please understand that the effect of the Damaging Manipulation is
*also* magical in nature. The effect would NOT be possible without the
effect of magic. If it will help, think of it this way.

The idea of the game mechanics to have stuff, like the mechanics behind
magic, become MORE streamlined. What you are proposing/attempting to do, is
blur those mechanics still further, not the other way around. In the end, if
it is a spell, it remains a spell. Not until the spells' effect have come
and gone, and this means both the primary effect and secondary effects of the
spell btw, is the magic "spent".

IF I am following the direction of actions with regards to a Barrier, then
Gurth's example to you is correct.

-K
Message no. 6
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Barriers'n'stuff - Steve K, a question.
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:13:55 -0700 (PDT)
> > But why? As I said, as far as I can tell, as soon
as the DM spell has gone off, the actually effect (the
explosion, the acid, the lightning, whatever) is a
purely physical phenomenon. Although GENERATED by
magic, it itself is not magical (or am I wrong?). Thus
how could an astral barrier have any effect on it?
>
> Doc', I've had this discussion with lots of people,
and I'm sure you have as well. Please understand that
the effect of the Damaging Manipulation is *also*
magical in nature. The effect would NOT be possible
without the effect of magic. If it will help, think
of it this way.
>
> The idea of the game mechanics to have stuff, like
the mechanics behind magic, become MORE streamlined.
What you are proposing/attempting to do, is blur those
mechanics still further, not the other way around. In
the end, if it is a spell, it remains a spell. Not
until the spells' effect have come and gone, and this
means both the primary effect and secondary effects of
the spell btw, is the magic "spent".
>
> IF I am following the direction of actions with
regards to a Barrier, then Gurth's example to you is
correct.
> -K

THANK you - I think. :)

I'm not trying to blur the rules or anything, K. I'm
trying to understand how the rules say this situation
would work. Unfortunately, no one's actually quoted
any rules or the like at me. Gurth's and your
explanations, while equally as reasonable as mine,
haven't had the weight of the rules behind them yet.

Really, what I'm saying is, can someone show me
somewhere in the rules (or tell me that the FASA guys
have definitely ruled on the matter) where it says
that the physical effects of a DM spell are still
magical in nature and thus effected by astral barriers?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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