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Message no. 1
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Bioware & Cyberware for magically active Characters
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 02:18:59 +0200
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 02:18:55 +0200 (MET DST)

Hi Folks !

I got a question concerning Bioware and Cyberware for magically active
Characters (as the Subject line says ;-) ):

You lose Magic-Attribute for Cyberware AND Bioware, so what if you got
BOTH ? For instance: A mage implants Cyberware for 1 point Essence and
Bioware for 1 Point Body Index. As far as I see it, his magical
Attribute would be 5 now (if it was 6 before implanting the stuff),
because his Magical Attribute (without Augmentation through
Initiation) cannot be higher than his Essence (that's why you lose
Magical Ability when implanting Cyberware) and for Bioware there is
some similar line of thought.
Or do you say he loses EXTRA for his Bioware (which would mean he had
to get the Bioware installed FIRST) ?

Any comments would be appreciated...
Georg

P.S. Are there any special rules for reducing the Body Index of Neural
Bioware (which is already cultured, as the rules say, so please don't
tell me that you can culture Bioware) like the "better surgery" Rule
for Cyberware ? Is there a way to reduce the impact on magical Ability ?

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Some balls are held for charity and some for fancy dress, but when |
| they're held for pleasure they're the balls that I like best..." |
| AC/DC - "Big Balls" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 2
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bioware & Cyberware for magically active Characters
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 21:24:20 -0700
On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Georg Greve wrote:

> I got a question concerning Bioware and Cyberware for magically active
> Characters (as the Subject line says ;-) ):
>
> You lose Magic-Attribute for Cyberware AND Bioware, so what if you got
> BOTH ? For instance: A mage implants Cyberware for 1 point Essence and
> Bioware for 1 Point Body Index. As far as I see it, his magical
> Attribute would be 5 now (if it was 6 before implanting the stuff),

Sorry, according to the rules bioware and cyberware are seperate.
For magically active individuals any essence loss from .01 to 1
costs you 1 magic point. Also any Body loss (due to bioware)
from .01 - 1 will lose you another 1 magic point

i.e. if I added a datajack for .1 essence and a reflex recorder
(concentration) for .1 body I would effectively lose 2 Magic points.

Although some GM's will rule that body is the same as essence to
a mage so you would only lose 1 point till the total exceeds 1.

> Or do you say he loses EXTRA for his Bioware (which would mean he had
> to get the Bioware installed FIRST) ?

It doesn't matter what order you get the enhancements.

> Any comments would be appreciated...
> Georg
> P.S. Are there any special rules for reducing the Body Index of Neural
> Bioware (which is already cultured, as the rules say, so please don't
> tell me that you can culture Bioware) like the "better surgery" Rule
> for Cyberware ? Is there a way to reduce the impact on magical Ability ?
> | Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |

Well you answered it... Cultured will reduce any non-neural enhancements
by 25% for a measly cost x 4. You may also use the doctors successes
to possibly reduce or increase the body, like you can with cyberware.

There is also a NAGEE or NERPS optional rule for mages of reduced
Bioware costs, to their essence. (see Paolo's page *I think*)
(this option gives only a 30% essence cost for normal bioware.
20% essence cost for cloned at cost x 2 and 10% essence loss
for cultured at cost x 4 *except for neural which is already
considered cultured) *so synaptic accel. level 2 at 1.6 body
is only an essence loss of .16* kinda nice but you still loose
1 Magic point.

Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 3
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bioware & Cyberware for magically active Characters
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:59:53 GMT
> From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>

> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 02:18:55 +0200 (MET DST)
>
> Hi Folks !
>
> I got a question concerning Bioware and Cyberware for magically active
> Characters (as the Subject line says ;-) ):
>
> You lose Magic-Attribute for Cyberware AND Bioware, so what if you got
> BOTH ? For instance: A mage implants Cyberware for 1 point Essence and
> Bioware for 1 Point Body Index. As far as I see it, his magical
> Attribute would be 5 now (if it was 6 before implanting the stuff),
> because his Magical Attribute (without Augmentation through
> Initiation) cannot be higher than his Essence (that's why you lose
> Magical Ability when implanting Cyberware) and for Bioware there is
> some similar line of thought.
> Or do you say he loses EXTRA for his Bioware (which would mean he had
> to get the Bioware installed FIRST) ?
>
> Any comments would be appreciated...
> Georg
>
ok as i remember it.
Magicians lose essence for bioware equal to its body index. (mundanes
don't) so
essence = 6 - (total cyber) - (total body index).
magic = 6 + grade - cyber - bioware.
yes nasty.
I think magicians loosing essence for bioware but mundanes not is
plain silly, it just seems to be a game mechanic to keep the magic
rating comuptation the same. There are some comments somewhere about
magicians being more 'delicate' but.
Certainly your magic rating should be reduced by essence in cyberware
+ body index as both are replacing bits of you and affecting your
power handling capacity but essence should probably not be reduced
for bioware, as that affects lots of other things as well and is not
required.

> P.S. Are there any special rules for reducing the Body Index of Neural
> Bioware (which is already cultured, as the rules say, so please don't
> tell me that you can culture Bioware) like the "better surgery" Rule
> for Cyberware ? Is there a way to reduce the impact on magical Ability ?
>
not that i am aware of. actually i don't know how you would afford it
anyway, bioware is very expensive. Though the most expensive bit of
ware now cost 105 Million Newyen on the streets!!! [move by wire 4
(delta) = 3Myen * 3.5 (index) * 10 (delta) = 105Million!!!] yes like
when did i last see a PC with 1 million ... ah not in any game i got
near. (ok the party between them but.)

as to impact on magical ability a Physical adept with cyber, bioware
and magic rating retained by initation is already the Hardest thing
on two legs, they don't need more compatibility (Terchdaire is not
well designed and he's bad enough)

Mark
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bioware & Cyberware for magically active Characters
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 13:06:16 +0200
>You lose Magic-Attribute for Cyberware AND Bioware, so what if you got
>BOTH ?

Then you lose Essence for both of them. I think FASA at the last moment
noticed that magically-active characters could still get bioware without any
loss of Magic Rating, so they decided to make it cost Essence as well for them.
I personally would say that your Magic rating will be based on your Essence
minus your Body Index, without making bioware cost Essence... The way it is
now a magician is much more limited to the amount of bioware he can get than
anyone else...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
tattooed everything
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
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Guru :)
Message no. 5
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Re: Bioware & Cyberware for magically active Characters
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:32:56 -0400
On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Gary Carroll wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Georg Greve wrote:
> Sorry, according to the rules bioware and cyberware are seperate.
> For magically active individuals any essence loss from .01 to 1
> costs you 1 magic point. Also any Body loss (due to bioware)
> from .01 - 1 will lose you another 1 magic point
> i.e. if I added a datajack for .1 essence and a reflex recorder
> (concentration) for .1 body I would effectively lose 2 Magic points.

No. In the Bioware Chapter of Shadowtech, it says you must pay
essence for Bioware. so, you pay .1 for the jack, .1 for the reflex
recorder, and have a 5.8 essense, so your magic att is 5.

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 6
From: Orin Starchaser <moon.29@*******.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bioware & Cyberware for magically active Characters
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:26:05 -0500
>On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Georg Greve wrote:
>
>> I got a question concerning Bioware and Cyberware for magically active
>> Characters (as the Subject line says ;-) ):
>>

>> P.S. Are there any special rules for reducing the Body Index of Neural
>> Bioware (which is already cultured, as the rules say, so please don't
>> tell me that you can culture Bioware) like the "better surgery" Rule
>> for Cyberware ? Is there a way to reduce the impact on magical Ability ?
>> | Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
>
>Well you answered it... Cultured will reduce any non-neural enhancements
>by 25% for a measly cost x 4. You may also use the doctors successes
>to possibly reduce or increase the body, like you can with cyberware.
Wait a sec... I read that: 1.Cultured Bioware reduces body index cost by
25%, not effectiveness. - But the cost was the same(X4). 2. That any
magically active characters who underwent any neural bioware or drastically
invasive bioware(total body cost 1.5 or higher) whould have to make a Magic
check as if they had taken a deadly wound.
Does this mean that mages and adepts *can* get some bioware without
magic loss, but they can't get any neural enhancements(cerebral booster,
memnonic enhancement, recorders, and synaptic accelerators) or anything
that costs over 1.5bi without having to check for magic loss?
Doubtful, but I have to check. It's also possible that they mean that
magically actives have to lose magic *anyway*, but the neural or heavy duty
bioware means that they can lose even more magic... *sigh*

-Mata ne,
Orin Starchaser
"Tell me, Doctor. Why did you go into gengineering research?" - Alyn Vage,
Reporter, Network 5 News
"To fulfill a dream mostly."-Dr. Terrance Clark, Genengineer, Genecraft
Biodesigns
"Okay, I'll bite. What dream? A dream for a better, cleaner world? Peace
on Earth? Food and care for the needy?"-Vage
"Nope. Redhead, five-ten with green eyes, athletic build, legs up to
here."-Clark
Shadowtech sourcebook, by Karl Wu.
"I am a repeat offender. I repeat, I repeat, I will offend again..."

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