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Message no. 1
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Blood Mages
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 08:37:20 -0700
Has anyone played/ran Blood Mages? I was just
curious, about how nasty they can be?

How about blood spirits...

Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 2
From: CHARLES E SPAUGH <SPAUGHCE@*****.SHERIFF.CO.FORSYTH.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:58:12 EST5EDT
What are Blood mages and Spirits?????
Message no. 3
From: "Michael V. Trebbien" <mvt@*************.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:15:50 -0500
In reply to Charles Spaugh:

>What are blood mages and Spirits?

They are detailed in the AZTLAN sourcebook, along with the Plumed Serpent totem, and the
Jaguar Totem. If you do not have access to the sourcebook, I will try to dig out mine and
expand, but that is the best source for the FASA version.



Mike Trebbien mvt@*************.com

Caffeine: The Original Wired Reflexes!
Message no. 4
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:55:20 -0700
>CHARLES:
>What are Blood mages and Spirits?????

Well Blood Mages are special (mostly evil (by my
standards)) Mages from Aztlan. They have learned to
cast spell and transfer their drain to physical damage
either to them selves or to other characters.
Currently it's not known if they are required to
actually required to inflict the physical damage themselves
or if they just need to be touching the receipent of the
drain(physical damage). This allows them to cast extremely
large spells without the normal consequences of resisting
the incomming drain. (if they have creatures/(meta)humans
to sacrifice to the spell) i.e. for light drain maybe they
only need to kill a rat but for deadly they need to kill
someone to accept all the drain. It's also not know
if they have to transfer all the drain or if they only
need to transfer partial drain. If this is the case
they could use slaves to cast large spells, not needing
to kill them (*doing only serious damage*) then using
them again for another day.

Blood Spirits are Conjured spirits from the actual blood
of a recently killed individual. *see Aztlan sorce book
(in the back) for Blood Spirit stats*

Hope this helps.
Now that you know the nastiness you should understand
my curiousness of how others have played them...

Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 5
From: CHARLES E SPAUGH <SPAUGHCE@*****.SHERIFF.CO.FORSYTH.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:38:53 EST5EDT
Thanks for the information gary.
Message no. 6
From: The Kumquat <LAYBROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:53:23 -0500
About playing Blood mages.... Do you mean as PC's?
If you're a "by-the-book" type, (and I am, personally) the rules explicitly
state that blood magic CANNOT be practiced by PC's... The rules are supposedly
there as GM reference only, for NPC "bad guys". I have used them in a few
cases, and I play them exactly as if they were Aztlaner Toxic Shamans, only
slightly more "cultic".

Just My Two Pence.
The Kumquat.

Support Whirled Peas.
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:50:37 +0100
> From: CHARLES E SPAUGH <SPAUGHCE@*****.SHERIFF.CO.FORSYTH.NC.US>

> What are Blood mages and Spirits?????

They're from the Aztlan Sourcebook; mages that use blood in their rituals
to reduce Drain I think (I don't have the book (yet)), and spirits that
have some sort of Essence Drain power _and_ can be summoned...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De cursus "Omgaan met teleurstellingen" gaat wederom niet door.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:50:37 +0100
> From: The Kumquat <LAYBROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU>

> About playing Blood mages.... Do you mean as PC's?
> If you're a "by-the-book" type, (and I am, personally) the rules explicitly
> state that blood magic CANNOT be practiced by PC's...

I personally don't like these rules of "PCs CAN NEVER this and that." I'm
all for having PCs and NPCs exactly equal as far as stats and
possibilities are concerned.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De cursus "Omgaan met teleurstellingen" gaat wederom niet door.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
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Message no. 9
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:53:32 +0100
> What are Blood mages and Spirits?????

They are a phenomenon that appears mainly in Aztlan. They are magicians
that can use lifeforce (symbolicalyy represented by blood) to fuel spells
and other magical undertakings. Blood mages can inflict wounds on others
to avoid geting drained when casting spells, they can even inflict physical
wounds on themselves to avoid geting a much more severe stun "wound".
Killing the victim/donor makes the effect even greater.

Blood spirits are a new type of spirit.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 10
From: "Gary L. Kelley" <gkelley@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 15:02:44 -0500
>> From: The Kumquat <LAYBROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU>
>
>> About playing Blood mages.... Do you mean as PC's?
>> If you're a "by-the-book" type, (and I am, personally) the rules
explicitly
>> state that blood magic CANNOT be practiced by PC's...
>
>I personally don't like these rules of "PCs CAN NEVER this and that." I'm
>all for having PCs and NPCs exactly equal as far as stats and
>possibilities are concerned.
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> De cursus "Omgaan met teleurstellingen" gaat wederom niet door.
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
Yeah it does seem kinda of shitty that players can`t use some of this stuff.
I know that I like to play my shape shifter PA. Though right now he`s in
traction :)
KRK
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:44:58 +0100
> From: "Gary L. Kelley" <gkelley@*****.NET>

> >I personally don't like these rules of "PCs CAN NEVER this and that."
I'm
> >all for having PCs and NPCs exactly equal as far as stats and
> >possibilities are concerned.
>
> Yeah it does seem kinda of shitty that players can`t use some of this stuff.
> I know that I like to play my shape shifter PA. Though right now he`s in
> traction :)

Actually what I mean are things like blood magic, or sacrifice geasa. If a
player wants to do those things, let them -- I think FASA sees the players
way too much as the heroic (LG *duck* :) shadowrunners who save the day
for the rest of the city.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Could it be that it's only superficiality?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 12
From: Cugel the Clever <cugel@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 00:45:06 +01.0
On 27 Sep 95 at 12:44, Gurth wrote:

> Actually what I mean are things like blood magic, or sacrifice
> geasa. If a player wants to do those things, let them -- I think
> FASA sees the players way too much as the heroic (LG *duck* :)
> shadowrunners who save the day for the rest of the city.

What do you mean by (LG *duck* :) <innocent look on his face> ;)
I completely agree. The rules for blood magic can be (more or less)
deducted from HB's first adventure (forgot the name), and to be
honest it didn't look to munchkinous to me. To be reasonable
effective you need sacrifices and a steady supply of those are a
definite weakness. You can say that the mage needs blood for
everything magical he/she tries, so either he suffers physical drain,
or cuts someone else. And people cutting up other people suffer
serious social drawbacks :).
If they want, let them, only make sure that there are enough
negative aspects that balance the blood magic vs normal magic.

Martin Steffens (Cugel@**.net / bdi05626@***.rhij.nl)
Many an ancient lord's last words had been, "You can't kill me
because I've got magic aaargh." (Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times)
Geek Code v3.0:
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Message no. 13
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:18:03 -0700
>>You can say that the mage needs blood for
everything magical he/she tries, so either he suffers physical drain,
or cuts someone else. And people cutting up other people suffer
serious social drawbacks :).<<

Well, but to a munchkin, this won't matter. All you do is have your mage
get proficient in, say, katana. "Hack! Ok, I do X boxes of damage.
Muuhahaha here comes the fireball!" He's hacking up the bad guys and using
their injuries to fuel his power at the same time. Could he do this?
(I haven't seen the rules for BM myself).

-E
Message no. 14
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 08:42:41 GMT
Eve Forward writes

> >>You can say that the mage needs blood for
> everything magical he/she tries, so either he suffers physical drain,
> or cuts someone else. And people cutting up other people suffer
> serious social drawbacks :).<<
>
just slightly.

> Well, but to a munchkin, this won't matter. All you do is have your mage
> get proficient in, say, katana. "Hack! Ok, I do X boxes of damage.
> Muuhahaha here comes the fireball!" He's hacking up the bad guys and using
> their injuries to fuel his power at the same time. Could he do this?
NO. The rules require that the 'vistim' be immobile and unable to
resist. Basically you need them at least hobbled and bound, in the
'which bit do i want to grab' position.

> (I haven't seen the rules for BM myself).
>
for those on comparisions to the HB stuff. There is a reference to
this connection in the Atzlan book and the two work somewhat
differently, which is more useful depends really on what you wamt to
do.

> -E
>

Mark
Message no. 15
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:07:59 +0100
> >>You can say that the mage needs blood for
> everything magical he/she tries, so either he suffers physical drain,
> or cuts someone else. And people cutting up other people suffer
> serious social drawbacks :).<<
>
> Well, but to a munchkin, this won't matter. All you do is have your mage
> get proficient in, say, katana. "Hack! Ok, I do X boxes of damage.
> Muuhahaha here comes the fireball!" He's hacking up the bad guys and using
> their injuries to fuel his power at the same time. Could he do this?
> (I haven't seen the rules for BM myself).

No, at least not at the moment. The rules however say that its not
intirely impossible.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 16
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:45:42 +0100
Cugel the Clever said:
>
> On 27 Sep 95 at 12:44, Gurth wrote:
>
> > Actually what I mean are things like blood magic, or sacrifice
> > geasa. If a player wants to do those things, let them -- I think
> > FASA sees the players way too much as the heroic (LG *duck* :)
> > shadowrunners who save the day for the rest of the city.
>
> What do you mean by (LG *duck* :) <innocent look on his face> ;)
> I completely agree. The rules for blood magic can be (more or less)
> deducted from HB's first adventure (forgot the name), and to be
> honest it didn't look to munchkinous to me.

Well Blood Magic in Aftermath is more than a tad different than
the version the Azzie mages use. Aftermath blood magic gives you
more force, Azzie magic takes care of the drain. I suppose its a
question of WYTIWYG and that both is possible, however thats what
the rules say.

> To be reasonable
> effective you need sacrifices and a steady supply of those are a
> definite weakness. You can say that the mage needs blood for
> everything magical he/she tries, so either he suffers physical drain,
> or cuts someone else. And people cutting up other people suffer
> serious social drawbacks :).

Yes, but inflicting physical wounds on yourself in not as bad
as it sounds. First of all a physical wound is "worth" much more
that its equivalent in stun damage. That means that a mage that
would take a serious stun can probably (dont quote me on that)
get away with a moderate physical (using blood magic). No to
mention the fact that you can heal physical, and even with the
+2 penalty healing a moderate wound on a mage is a piece of cake.

> If they want, let them, only make sure that there are enough
> negative aspects that balance the blood magic vs normal magic.

I dont think that leting your players use blood magic is such
a good idea. I have this bad feeling that the game will pretty
soon degenerate into some form of Vampire were every player
goes out looking for yet more victims for his crazy rituals.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 17
From: Cugel the Clever <cugel@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 23:34:38 +01.0
On 29 Sep 95 at 14:45, Jani Fikouras wrote:
> Well Blood Magic in Aftermath is more than a tad different than
> the version the Azzie mages use. Aftermath blood magic gives you
> more force, Azzie magic takes care of the drain. I suppose its a
> question of WYTIWYG and that both is possible, however thats what
> the rules say.

Aftermath was a quest on a metaplane so I wouldn't put to much value
on the rules given there. Maybe it is an option: either get more
force or use it for resisting drain, just like the spell foci extra
dice.

> Yes, but inflicting physical wounds on yourself in not as bad as
> it sounds. First of all a physical wound is "worth" much more that
> its equivalent in stun damage. That means that a mage that would
> take a serious stun can probably (dont quote me on that) get away
> with a moderate physical (using blood magic). No to mention the fact
> that you can heal physical, and even with the +2 penalty healing a
> moderate wound on a mage is a piece of cake.

Lets see: heal is 10-essence target number; treat 8-essence; so heal
would give a target number of 6 (which is far from easy), and treat a
number of 4 which is to easy. Also the lower wound level is easier to
resist with willpower... Damn, you're right :).

> > If they want, let them, only make sure that there are enough
> > negative aspects that balance the blood magic vs normal magic.
> I dont think that leting your players use blood magic is such a
> good idea. I have this bad feeling that the game will pretty soon
> degenerate into some form of Vampire were every player goes out
> looking for yet more victims for his crazy rituals.

I think that players are more likely to use their own blood to power
the magic than dragging along a number of victims to power their
spells (clumsy when you're on a run ;). I didn't say I would like to
see my players become blood mages, I just think that FASA's
"this-is-forbidden-because-we-say-so" method isn't my style of play,
and would like this option to be open to my players. Only take care
that neither type of mage becomes more powerfull than the other.

Martin Steffens (Cugel@**.net / bdi05626@***.rhij.nl)
The Kappamaki, a whaling research ship, was currently researching the
question: How many whales can you catch in one week?
-- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)
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Message no. 18
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Blood Mages
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:40:07 +0100
Cugel the Clever wrote:
> On 29 Sep 95 at 14:45, Jani Fikouras wrote:
> > Well Blood Magic in Aftermath is more than a tad different than
> > the version the Azzie mages use. Aftermath blood magic gives you
> > more force, Azzie magic takes care of the drain. I suppose its a
> > question of WYTIWYG and that both is possible, however thats what
> > the rules say.
>
> Aftermath was a quest on a metaplane so I wouldn't put to much value
> on the rules given there. Maybe it is an option: either get more
> force or use it for resisting drain, just like the spell foci extra
> dice.

Yes, the metaplanes reflect reality in more than one ways. And I
agree once again. The Azzie mages are doing their first baby-steps in
the big bad world of blood magic and thusly cant exploit the power
they have in their hands to the fullest. Just give them some time :)

> > > If they want, let them, only make sure that there are enough
> > > negative aspects that balance the blood magic vs normal magic.

> > I dont think that leting your players use blood magic is such a
> > good idea. I have this bad feeling that the game will pretty soon
> > degenerate into some form of Vampire were every player goes out
> > looking for yet more victims for his crazy rituals.
>
> I think that players are more likely to use their own blood to power
> the magic than dragging along a number of victims to power their
> spells (clumsy when you're on a run ;). I didn't say I would like to
> see my players become blood mages, I just think that FASA's
> "this-is-forbidden-because-we-say-so" method isn't my style of play,
> and would like this option to be open to my players. Only take care
> that neither type of mage becomes more powerfull than the other.

Thats the way "heroes" use bloodmagic in ED. I havent go anything against
that. I actually find the idea very stimulating. What I definitely dont
want to see is players performing sacrifices to make that force 24
power focus they always-wanted-but-could-not-afford :)

BTW I got a funny litle story about blood magic :)

We were playing "Aftermath", the players met Maranda nad the other gals
and followed them to the enclave. Garret asked them some simple questions
(where you from etc.) when one of the players (playing a dwarven russian
mercenary) held this speech about how they (the players) are the blood
brothers of the honourable warriors of the enclave, and about how they
hate all magic and only believe in the magic of the blood (metaphorically
speaking ofcource :) etc. Well you can guess what happened next :)

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Blood Mages, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.