Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: olafur gunnarsson <olafurg@******.IS>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:36:21 GMT
>olafur gunnarsson said on 16:04/30 Oct 96...
>
>> Well since we are talking about chronology does anyone remember when
>> the first dwarfs and elfs were born to the world.I know that orcs and
>> trolls came in 2021 but for the life of me i cant remember wether the
>> dandelion eaters and rock heads were born in 2011 or sooner.
>
>2011 is the correct year, 10 years before orks and trolls. Note that this
>is not including the spike babies, of course (or that elf magician from
>Dreamchipper, who's 43 years old in an adventure set in 2050. The first
>appearance of a spike baby perhaps?).

Might be. Wouldnt put it past them but i think the first spike baby that
appeared in thier novels Was dodger. Altough one doenst learn of that until
much later.
-Olafur G
ps thanks for the intel :)
Message no. 2
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:49:18 +0000
> Might be. Wouldnt put it past them but i think the first spike baby that
> appeared in thier novels Was dodger. Altough one doenst learn of that until
> much later.

There was mention somewhere of Ehran running a gifted school that
just happened to be a front for a spike baby academy.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 3
From: olafur gunnarsson <olafurg@******.IS>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 22:25:34 GMT
>> Might be. Wouldnt put it past them but i think the first spike baby that
>> appeared in thier novels Was dodger. Altough one doenst learn of that until
>> much later.
>
>There was mention somewhere of Ehran running a gifted school that
>just happened to be a front for a spike baby academy.
>

Its mentioned in Tir Tairngire. dont remember the page but its not Ehran its
Sean Laverty the something foundation. They adopted Children from the US and
other countrys.I think that the Immortals were requiting future soldiers
-Olafur G
Message no. 4
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:34:55 -0500
>>> Might be. Wouldnt put it past them but i think the first spike baby that
>>> appeared in thier novels Was dodger. Altough one doenst learn of that until
>>> much later.
>>
>>There was mention somewhere of Ehran running a gifted school that
>>just happened to be a front for a spike baby academy.
>>
>
>Its mentioned in Tir Tairngire. dont remember the page but its not Ehran its
>Sean Laverty the something foundation. They adopted Children from the US and
>other countrys.I think that the Immortals were requiting future soldiers
>
This is just a guess on my part, but... here goes...

The Tir was put together in an astonishing amount of time, if you consider
that things started in 2011 or later. However, if you add in the fact that
these immortals were recruiting spikes for who knows how long, then maybe
they were ready and had the Tir planned before magic even returned.

Frightening concept, and just one more reason to distrust teh keeblers...

Steve
Message no. 5
From: Scam <scam@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:40:18 +1100
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Bull wrote:

[snip]
> This is just a guess on my part, but... here goes...
>
> The Tir was put together in an astonishing amount of time, if you consider
> that things started in 2011 or later. However, if you add in the fact that
> these immortals were recruiting spikes for who knows how long, then maybe
> they were ready and had the Tir planned before magic even returned.
>
> Frightening concept, and just one more reason to distrust teh keeblers...
>
> Steve

Well of COURSE they had it planned before magic returned. Ehran probably
had the thing down to fine detail centuries ago.

*******************************************************************
VAMPIRE: I am of the Kindred. I am child of both Night and Pain....
MAGE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you're a soap bubble.
VAMPIRE: Pop!
*******************************************************************
Message no. 6
From: Specter <james@***.UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:01:27 -0700
On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, Scam wrote:

> Well of COURSE they had it planned before magic returned. Ehran probably
> had the thing down to fine detail centuries ago.

What about the US? I figured they orchestrated the fall of the US because
this way they wouldn't have a powerful enemy to fight when they took what
is now Tir Tairngire. Instead they have a bunch of NAN proto-states
surrounding them, all hostile to the US and none as powerful as what it
was, which allowed them to take the area from Salish-Sidhe much easier.
However, if they had this planned in detail, why didn't they establish the
nation earlier? Why didn't they establish Tir Tairngire as a state of the
United States and declare independence from the US when Texas did? The US
wanted Texas back, and would be less likely to stop Tir Tairngire (or
whatever the American name would be called) because the events with Mexico
and Texas were more important. This would also allow them to not have to
build up an army for the use of gaining land from CFS and S-S because when
they established the Tir they could have already taken the land that they
wanted without fighting for it and having the Northern Crescent being
constantly disputed.

Basically, this is what is wrong with the Immortal Elf theory. There are
too many things they would have been able to do that haven't happened,
and FASA is not just going to completely rewrite of modern
history to enact their plans, so they wait until the Awakening, when one
or two hundred years ago using mundane means would have been easier. Then
magic comes along and anything they weren't able to do with constraints on
magic could be done.
Message no. 7
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 00:59:43 +0000
Specter said:

> What about the US? I figured they orchestrated the fall of the US because
> this way they wouldn't have a powerful enemy to fight when they took what
> is now Tir Tairngire. Instead they have a bunch of NAN proto-states

I'm not too sure how much of this was planned in advance and how much
was improv. The immortal elves were caught off guard by the ghost
dance and none of them seems to know who Danny was or how he learned
to dance.

> However, if they had this planned in detail, why didn't they establish the
> nation earlier? Why didn't they establish Tir Tairngire as a state of the

The time may not have been right. It is possible that they jumped on
a golden opportunity. There is a possibility that someone else is
influencing the actions of the immortals just as they are influencing
the mortals.

> Basically, this is what is wrong with the Immortal Elf theory. There are
> too many things they would have been able to do that haven't happened,

Remember that the immortals are each following their own agendas.
These purposes have crossed on several occasions.

> and FASA is not just going to completely rewrite of modern
> history to enact their plans, so they wait until the Awakening, when one

They don't have to, there is so much that is ripe to use now. The
Kennedy's are said to be an elven family....the Kennedys that try to
seize power get killed....connection?


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 8
From: Specter <james@***.UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 23:56:26 -0700
On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, Droopy wrote:

> The immortal elves were caught off guard by the ghost dance and none of
> them seems to know who Danny was or how he learned to dance.
I doubt that. Why else would "Lady of the Court" say that they should have
killed him when they had the chance? Besides, it was immortal interference
that was how the GGD was 'discovered' in the first place. (Aina's "son"
taught it to the Sioux(?) in the 19th century, and to Coleman in the
21st according to WWE. Of course, this all depends on whether or not you
consider FASA fiction as canon. I could care less if it is or isn't, but
the idea is stupid.)

> There is a possibility that someone else is influencing the actions of
> the immortals just as they are influencing the mortals.
Just what we need. More super-beings.

> They don't have to, there is so much that is ripe to use now. The
> Kennedy's are said to be an elven family....the Kennedys that try to
> seize power get killed....connection?
Okay. The point I'm trying to make is that the addition of imortals
into Shadowrun should have been taken into account from the beginnign
rather than on a whim. I would have preferred that they would rather
rewrite the last 100 years of world history than start creating
siutuations that would have made more sense to have happened in our past
instead of in the future. That's the problem with SR's timeline (And
CP2020's is even worse.) Everything is going along fine until the year the
game is created, and then the world goes down the toilet in n
extremely short amount of time with things thatmake it seem stupid. I
think the addition of immortals was half-baked, and if they were goign to
dit it, they should have doen it well instead of haphazardly. better yet,
don't have any or keep it personal like between Ehran an Harlequinn, and
not have them altering the past. (Again, in WWE, Alachia was Queen
Elizabeth I and Eva Braum(sp). Yeah, right.)

Homepage: http://www.arc.unm.edu/~james
Message no. 9
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:42:52 +0000
Specter said:

> I doubt that. Why else would "Lady of the Court" say that they should have
> killed him when they had the chance? Besides, it was immortal interference
> that was how the GGD was 'discovered' in the first place. (Aina's "son"
> taught it to the Sioux(?) in the 19th century, and to Coleman in the
> 21st according to WWE. Of course, this all depends on whether or not you
> consider FASA fiction as canon. I could care less if it is or isn't, but
> the idea is stupid.)

Where did you get that info? The immortals have repeatedly stated
that they don't know who taught Coleman to dance. They obviously knew
who he was once he started leading his people, but he was not known
to possess that knowledge.

> Okay. The point I'm trying to make is that the addition of imortals
> into Shadowrun should have been taken into account from the beginnign
> rather than on a whim. I would have preferred that they would rather
<stuff cut out>

Ok...here's the deal on this. FASA never worked out a world history
between now and then. Immortals weren't added in until after ED was
connected to SR. And last year, FASA was too busy with legal matters
and personnel changes to concentrate on the games....unfortunate, but
true. Mike has said that he is sick of immortal elves and would be
happy if he never saw one again.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 10
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Chronology and spike babys
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:36:13 GMT
Specter writes

> On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, Droopy wrote:
>
> > The immortal elves were caught off guard by the ghost dance and none of
> > them seems to know who Danny was or how he learned to dance.
> I doubt that. Why else would "Lady of the Court" say that they should have
> killed him when they had the chance? Besides,
yep even they make mistakes :)

> it was immortal interference
> that was how the GGD was 'discovered' in the first place. (Aina's "son"
> taught it to the Sioux(?) in the 19th century, and to Coleman in the
> 21st according to WWE. Of course, this all depends on whether or not you
> consider FASA fiction as canon. I could care less if it is or isn't, but
> the idea is stupid.)
>
This though is something that only Ania and Harlequin found out and
recently when they talked to her son in WWE.

And as to them controlling her son you've got to remember who the
father was (Ysgarthe) which will rather affect matters.

> > There is a possibility that someone else is influencing the actions of
> > the immortals just as they are influencing the mortals.
> Just what we need. More super-beings.
>
Well someone is, they're called Horrors/The enemy, come Anias 'good
friend' Ysgarthe. Thankfully those things are not likely to become
common in SR.

Mark

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Chronology and spike babys, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!