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Message no. 1
From: Rick Mc Leod of the Clan Mac Leod <rxm@****.MDA.COM.AU>
Subject: Copyright violations re:Shadowrun Material...
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 02:26:12 GMT
Without pointing fingers, if "A" has a published work for which
they retain all rights (and make royalties on), and "B" creates
a derivative work which substantially duplicates the work of
"A" without the permission of "A", then "B" has breached
the copyright of "A".

It doesn not matter if "B" profits from the work, the important
test is: did "A" lose any profit?

Say, someone extracted all of the statistic info from SSC, and
published that (as a data file or in a program) then freely
distributed it. There would be no real need to buy the SSC
unless you like the pictures), and FASA would lose 1 or more
sales.

---------------------------------------------------------------
I don't represent FASA. (or anyone else -- YET)
Message no. 2
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Copyright violations re:Shadowrun Material...
Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 22:15:34 -0500
On Tue, 16 May 1995, Rick Mc Leod of the Clan Mac Leod wrote:

> Say, someone extracted all of the statistic info from SSC, and
> published that (as a data file or in a program) then freely
> distributed it. There would be no real need to buy the SSC
> unless you like the pictures), and FASA would lose 1 or more
> sales.

But, at the same time, do check out the law in the area of Fair Use.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> Cthulhu Matata
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> http://att2.cs.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden

******************************
** Random Babylon 5 Quote **
******************************
"There's the story she told us, but then the Minbari never tell you the
whole truth."
-- Sheridan, "A Distant Star"
Message no. 3
From: Gregory Reade <readeg@***.GOV>
Subject: Re[2]: Copyright violations re:Shadowrun Material...
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 09:23:13 -0700
You also need to remember FASA's stance on other copyrighted material
out there- namely the Battletech/Mechwarrior games. There are a
couple of Freeware Mech simlutors/games, which FASA allows because
they are strictly Freeware. No one should be able to make money off
of them and I believe this includes putting them into a CDRom
collection of shareware/freeware that is then sold.

I can check the veracity of this on GEnie with FASA, but I trust my
memory on this subject.

Also, on the point of putting all the rules "out there" so someone
will not have to buy rulebooks: I believe this is a separate case from
something like a game or character generator. This would be similar
to republishing the books in electronic format and therefore would
violate their copyright unless you've been given permission.(!)


FYI,

Gregory Reade
Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Copyright violations re:Shadowrun Material...
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 10:07:25 -0400
>>>>> "Robert" == Robert A Hayden
<hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
>>>>> writes:

>> Say, someone extracted all of the statistic info from SSC, and
>> published that (as a data file or in a program) then freely
>> distributed it. There would be no real need to buy the SSC
>> unless you like the pictures), and FASA would lose 1 or more
>> sales.

Robert> But, at the same time, do check out the law in the area of Fair Use.

Say you have the SSC, Fields of Fire, and a bunch of other books, and
you sit down and compile a master equipment table that includes
everything from all these books for your own use. That is well within
your rights, under fair use.

Now, you give a copy of that table to me, but you don't give me all
other copies of that table and the books you compiled it from. You and I
are now in violation of FASA's copyright. It doesn't matter if I own my
own copies of all the books you used, because under law each individual
copy is treated as a separate entity; otherwise if I didn't own the
books and you gave me a copy of that table, Joe up the street, who does
own the books, whould be legally responsible for your violation as
co-owner of the books, and that just doesn't make sense.

While I don't know of any cases specifically dealing with gaming-related
infringements, I do know of several cases dealing with program listings
printed in magazines. Specifically, if both you and I each by copies of
the same magazine, and I type in the source listing, if I give a copy of
that to you, we are in violation of copyright law.

So yes, there is a limited amount of case law behind this.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox |
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Message no. 5
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Copyright violations re:Shadowrun Material...
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 17:34:18 +0100
Rick Mc Leod of the Clan Mac Leod :-) wrote
> Without pointing fingers, if "A" has a published work for which
> they retain all rights (and make royalties on), and "B" creates
> a derivative work which substantially duplicates the work of
> "A" without the permission of "A", then "B" has
breached
> the copyright of "A".
What if B adapts rules or make a system in which rules are in a batabase
(a sort of expert system) so that everyone can change rules for their
private benefit. Of course it is likely that they will put rules they
often use (SR rules) but since it is private. Who did not make his own
GM screen which is highly better than FASA's ones and costs less :-)

--

ATREIDE

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R+(++) G' !tv b++ D+ u**-
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| |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Message no. 6
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Copyright violations re:Shadowrun Material...
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 17:41:32 +0100
Robert A. Hayden :
> But, at the same time, do check out the law in the area of Fair Use.
Internet is international... may be trickier :-(

As a note :
Sorry Steve Menards to have risen the problem, but it's better to
know where you go before you go into it.
--
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
"Better to know where you go before you go into it"

| ATREIDE | GCS d(++) H--() s !g p*+ au a- !v |
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