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Message no. 1
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:33:05 EST
Gosh, it was a quiet weekend...No mail from the list, very little from
the rest of the world (is there a world outside the list? ;) Anyone have
any idea what happened? (besides the obvious, I mean:)

As for the game (see, I can get back to the game after all:). I have a
player who has recently acquired a copy of the SR Companion. This doesn't
bother me as much as the fact that he has decided to absolutely abuse the
Edges and Flaws (Registered Equipment + SOTA Model and then some
<shudder> ). One of his Flaws: Hunted 6 (and he wouldn't remove it after
I told him no). I haven't said the M-word (but, BOY, ahve I been thinking
it!), yet. I don't think such a denouncement would be constructive in
this case (true, but not helpful), so I haven't yet done so. Worst of
all, he didn't check to see if anything was restricted (I've sent him my
campaign's restrictions), he didn't check to see about any house rules,
or any of the other similar things unique to each campaign.

The same player knows nothing about magic, or about decking (none of my
players, self included, know enough decking for anything yet). He wishes
only to use a street samurai or merc-type character. No magic, period.
Worst of all, the only other games he's played have been WoD (and he
considers himself a great role-player <chuckle, snort>). As a result, he
knows only one way of doing anything: the guns-ablaze,
death-cry-from-the-abyss, all-out frontal assault <sigh>. Not that this
is necessarily the only possible result from playing Vampire, just the
one he's gotten.

If you can offer any advice on correcting him (this guy has a tendency to
ignore anything except what he wants to hear), it would be appreciated.
And if you can offer some advice on getting respect, it would be of some
help, too (since I don't seem to get much of that out of many of the
people I know):

--
-Canthros-the-trying-hard-not-to-kill-the-munchies-outright-shapeshifter-mage
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 2
From: 'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:37:45 -0800
On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, John E Pederson wrote:
# player who has recently acquired a copy of the SR Companion. This doesn't
# bother me as much as the fact that he has decided to absolutely abuse the
# Edges and Flaws (Registered Equipment + SOTA Model and then some
# <shudder> ). One of his Flaws: Hunted 6 (and he wouldn't remove it after
# I told him no). I haven't said the M-word (but, BOY, ahve I been thinking
You're the GM, the equivalent of God. If you said no, that means
no. Express that in the firmest terms, refusing to allow him to play until
he gets a character that you approve of.
# all, he didn't check to see if anything was restricted (I've sent him my
# campaign's restrictions), he didn't check to see about any house rules,
# or any of the other similar things unique to each campaign.
If he won't bother with something as simple as this, say no. No
participation until he gets his shit together.
# knows only one way of doing anything: the guns-ablaze,
# death-cry-from-the-abyss, all-out frontal assault <sigh>. Not that this
# is necessarily the only possible result from playing Vampire, just the
# one he's gotten.

If after saying no a bunch of times you can't get him to
change, and he's still playing somehow, abuse the flaws in his character,
especially that Hunted:6. I'm not at all familiar with the Companion
(didn't sound all that worthwhile), but 6 sounds like a hell of a high
number for SR. Pick a AA mega, and unleash the hounds. Maybe Transys
Neuronet before the events in Streets of Blood, or something of that
nature. Everywhere he goes, he gets gang-tagged with agents/mercs/forces
of that megacorp. If you want to justify, wait for him to pull a
guns-blazing assault. That would attract a reasonable amount of attention,
and then pull the plug. Extra forces on every run, looking for him. Force
size keeps increasing. Magic is wonderful against a munchkin with no clue
how it works. Have his teammates approached to set him up. Have the corp
post his picture in lotsa shady hangouts with an offered reward, alive or
dead. Have them follow him around with a camera, catching his guns-blazing
assault, and publish it on the trid.

Then, say no to any other munchy character he tries. No is a word
we learned when we were two. Time to start using it again.

The Spaceman |Fasten, then zip.
spaced@*.washington.edu | - Michael Garibaldi
Check out the Bill Page! |Watch Babylon 5!
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
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Message no. 3
From: Joey Guhlin <setzer@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:46:39 -0600
At 04:33 PM 3/10/97 EST, you wrote:
>Gosh, it was a quiet weekend...No mail from the list, very little from
>the rest of the world (is there a world outside the list? ;) Anyone have
>any idea what happened? (besides the obvious, I mean:)
>
>As for the game (see, I can get back to the game after all:). I have a
>player who has recently acquired a copy of the SR Companion. This doesn't
>bother me as much as the fact that he has decided to absolutely abuse the
>Edges and Flaws (Registered Equipment + SOTA Model and then some
><shudder> ). One of his Flaws: Hunted 6 (and he wouldn't remove it after
>I told him no). I haven't said the M-word (but, BOY, ahve I been thinking
>it!), yet. I don't think such a denouncement would be constructive in
>this case (true, but not helpful), so I haven't yet done so. Worst of
>all, he didn't check to see if anything was restricted (I've sent him my
>campaign's restrictions), he didn't check to see about any house rules,
>or any of the other similar things unique to each campaign.
>
>The same player knows nothing about magic, or about decking (none of my
>players, self included, know enough decking for anything yet). He wishes
>only to use a street samurai or merc-type character. No magic, period.
>Worst of all, the only other games he's played have been WoD (and he
>considers himself a great role-player <chuckle, snort>). As a result, he
>knows only one way of doing anything: the guns-ablaze,
>death-cry-from-the-abyss, all-out frontal assault <sigh>. Not that this
>is necessarily the only possible result from playing Vampire, just the
>one he's gotten.
>
>If you can offer any advice on correcting him (this guy has a tendency to
>ignore anything except what he wants to hear), it would be appreciated.
>And if you can offer some advice on getting respect, it would be of some
>help, too (since I don't seem to get much of that out of many of the
>people I know):
<Real help start on third paragraph, sorry, I'm in a ranting mood>
Wow, this sounds like my ex-group(not player, the whole two person
group did it). I just stopped doing things for them, they were munchkins to
the max and annoyed me. One person, whose name I won't mention, was a total
munchkin and anything not in a rule book couldn't be a rule for him and the
gamemaster had no power for him. He said "Shadowrun was cool but then you
made us make a background." I almost gagged, I was about to get up and yell
at him, but I left it in my mind. I write adventures, NPCs, contacts, rules,
and I'm extremely nice(all the characters would have been dead about five
times if I wasn't so nice, I'm getting rid of that habit, slowly but surely)
And he considered writing a background a bit too hard and too much work. So,
I've stopped gamemastering until I can find a good group, his roleplaying
was, well, about that, nothing, and he expected it to be like a video game,
go around and fight until you become powerful and go and kill the main guy.
Ok, I went a bit OT on that, but here's what I did. I just stopped
for a couple of weeks, told them all to make a new character and learn to
roleplay or get out, he did the same thing(The other person figured out I
was mad, so he did a pretty good character with a 5 page background, it was
pretty cool to, not ultra-powerful, he's gonna be in my next group if I find
one) Now, I just gamemaster Final Fantasy rpg(yes, it exists). And I am
working on teaching him not to munchkin and roleplay. All he wants to do is
fight and gain levels then take over the world.
Ok, Sorry, I'm in an OT mood very much today. Stop playing with them
for a week or so, maybe a month. Or just stop playing with the problem
person and don't let the whole group suffer. Or give them what they want, go
crazy, a Hunted: 6 in my game is the eqivalant of Borrowed Time. I'll kill
you when I want. In my game also that means some people with enough bombs to
blow up the north american continent is after you. For awhile they don't
care, get powerful a bit, ka-boom. And snipers are always useful. Take them
aside and yell at them, talk with them, kill them off, or just ignore them,
when they call about shadowrun hang up. Well, change this to your
specifications, I can be a heck of a lot rude, and shadowrun put me through
too much stress, I'd rather play, but the gms here like to just fight in it
and make munchkins, well, at least all the one's i've seen. One I saw told
me there is no limit on attributes or skills. One person, new character,
never played, had a Firearms: 20
That's too much for me. Well, sorry about the ranting.
If you need ways to kill them off I can switch my mind into evil
mode, or more help, just say so. If you wrote this along time ago sorry for
the late reply. Good luck!

/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/
/Bad Weed - BadWeed@**********.Com /
/PGP Can be used if neccessary or upon Request /
/Pasadena, TX USA - SRHS - Close To Houston /
/- Amtgard - Fantasy Games - ShadowRun - Ultra /
/ Zone - NOFX - Science Fiction - Internet - /
/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--/
Message no. 4
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:26:57 GMT
John E Pederson writes
>
> As for the game (see, I can get back to the game after all:). I have a
> player who has recently acquired a copy of the SR Companion. This doesn't
> bother me as much as the fact that he has decided to absolutely abuse the
> Edges and Flaws (Registered Equipment + SOTA Model and then some
> <shudder> ). One of his Flaws: Hunted 6 (and he wouldn't remove it after
> I told him no).
Ok he got all that equipment somplace didn't he, a hunted 6 suggests
by stealing it off an AAA Corp, (thats about what a rating 6 enemy
is!). Try say oh, Aztechnology, who have decided that terristation by
application of Kyle Morgan sounds like a nice idea.
Find some way to get him to meet a 'Mr Bloggs' someplace quite
(Redmond barrens do nicely) and set up Kyle with sniper rifle
covering [Barret 121 is a good idea, you don't want to use it so the
bigger weapon you name the more chance the guy will decide talking is
a good idea] then inform him over a tanoy he's in the sights of
an.... and drop the door of the Wearhouse the meet was outside to
reveal Morgans friend Perianwyr 'you look round, and stare right up
the snout of a dragon should give him pause for thought!'
Hopefully he will realise talking is a good idea, if not well a
dragon an 2M range with a held action should swallow him whole.
Whatever you do don't kill him unless he starts the fight but a bit
of pointed interrogation and looting of the sillyest toys (leave him
some good stuff, just point out he toes Aztechnologies line or else,
and you might want to take a blood sample while you are at it if
feeling evil)

With any luck he won't start anything, if he does he should be dead
if you set it up right. He walked into it, he did have the option not
to go :) but you haven't totally fragged the character, well so they
got a ritual magic sample, well he picked a rating 6 hunted you
didn't want.

As you might guess i used 'a version' on this recently to 'suggest'
that someone left a line of investigation alone that Aztechnology
didn't want him investigating. Torturing players is far better than
killing thier characters......

Mark
Message no. 5
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:10:16 -0700
> From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
> If you can offer any advice on correcting him

Kill his character...Then explain the next character shall be
different..Also explain to him..if -You- don't own it..it don't
exist..The GM has the last word...And bumping off this character
shouldn't be too difficult..Just add in some heavy hitters on one of
his full body assaults...Then end of munchie character..Of course you
still have to deal with the munchie player...

-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 6
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:51:18 EST
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:37:45 -0800 "'Spaceman' WD Lee"
<spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU> writes:
>On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, John E Pederson wrote:
># player who has recently acquired a copy of the SR Companion. This
doesn't
># bother me as much as the fact that he has decided to absolutely abuse
the
># Edges and Flaws (Registered Equipment + SOTA Model and then some
># <shudder> ). One of his Flaws: Hunted 6 (and he wouldn't remove it
after
># I told him no). I haven't said the M-word (but, BOY, ahve I been
thinking
> You're the GM, the equivalent of God. If you said no, that means
>no. Express that in the firmest terms, refusing to allow him to play
until
>he gets a character that you approve of.

I'll try, but he has a tendency of ignoring anything except what he wants
to hear. (yeah, yeah. "Try not. Do or do not. There is not try.")




># all, he didn't check to see if anything was restricted (I've sent him
my
># campaign's restrictions), he didn't check to see about any house
rules,
># or any of the other similar things unique to each campaign.
> If he won't bother with something as simple as this, say no. No
>participation until he gets his shit together.

Saying it, I can do. I can even enforce it. I just don't need another
person who can heckle my and rest of the players during the game (the
fact that this guy believes himself to be an expert on RPGs doesn't seem
to help). So, I'm trying to do in as 'friendly' a manner possible. But I
think it's gonna take a friendly sledgehammer to drive the message home.



># knows only one way of doing anything: the guns-ablaze,
># death-cry-from-the-abyss, all-out frontal assault <sigh>. Not that
this
># is necessarily the only possible result from playing Vampire, just the
># one he's gotten.
>
> If after saying no a bunch of times you can't get him to
>change, and he's still playing somehow, abuse the flaws in his
character,
>especially that Hunted:6. I'm not at all familiar with the Companion
>(didn't sound all that worthwhile), but 6 sounds like a hell of a high
>number for SR. Pick a AA mega, and unleash the hounds. Maybe Transys
>Neuronet before the events in Streets of Blood, or something of that

Don't know who Transys is/was, but I was thinking the Azzies, myself. I
don't have Aztlan, but I figure that I can fudge blood mages pretty well
myself:) The effect is the important thing, after all (killing is not
important, it's how you kill them:)



>nature. Everywhere he goes, he gets gang-tagged with agents/mercs/forces
>of that megacorp. If you want to justify, wait for him to pull a
>guns-blazing assault. That would attract a reasonable amount of
attention,
>and then pull the plug. Extra forces on every run, looking for him.
Force
>size keeps increasing. Magic is wonderful against a munchkin with no
clue
>how it works. Have his teammates approached to set him up. Have the corp
>post his picture in lotsa shady hangouts with an offered reward, alive
or
>dead. Have them follow him around with a camera, catching his
guns-blazing
>assault, and publish it on the trid.

So I've been thinking. How many mercs, assassins, thugs and lowlifes
(gangers included here) do you think might be in Seattle? I figure he's
got a price on his head, and I would bet that nearly everyone connected
with the shadows knows who he is, and what he looks like. I just don't
want to spend two or three sessions getting this message across to him.



>
> Then, say no to any other munchy character he tries. No is a
word
>we learned when we were two. Time to start using it again.

As I said, using it is not the problem. Getting him to understand what
'no' means is the problem.

Thanks for the advice, Spaceman. The pointers will surely help.

>
>The Spaceman |Fasten, then zip.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 7
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:51:18 EST
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:46:39 -0600 Joey Guhlin <setzer@**.NET> writes:
>At 04:33 PM 3/10/97 EST, you wrote:
<just snipping myself>
><Real help start on third paragraph, sorry, I'm in a ranting mood>
> Wow, this sounds like my ex-group(not player, the whole two
>person
>group did it). I just stopped doing things for them, they were
>munchkins to
>the max and annoyed me. One person, whose name I won't mention, was a
>total
>munchkin and anything not in a rule book couldn't be a rule for him
>and the
>gamemaster had no power for him. He said "Shadowrun was cool but then
>you
>made us make a background." I almost gagged, I was about to get up and

:) That sounds kinda familiar. I think I've kinda cured most of that,
though. I know that at least a few of the PCs in use at the moment have
some sort of a background (and I don't think any of them are too
overpowered). Now I just have to get a copy of the stories from them:)
Life goes on, I suppose.



>yell
>at him, but I left it in my mind. I write adventures, NPCs, contacts,
>rules,
>and I'm extremely nice(all the characters would have been dead about
>five
>times if I wasn't so nice, I'm getting rid of that habit, slowly but
>surely)
>And he considered writing a background a bit too hard and too much
>work. So,
>I've stopped gamemastering until I can find a good group, his
>roleplaying
>was, well, about that, nothing, and he expected it to be like a video
>game,
>go around and fight until you become powerful and go and kill the main
>guy.

My first couple of games (from both sides of the GM's screen) were like
that. I think I've about got that quelled too.



> Ok, I went a bit OT on that, but here's what I did. I just
>stopped
>for a couple of weeks, told them all to make a new character and learn
>to
>roleplay or get out, he did the same thing(The other person figured
>out I
>was mad, so he did a pretty good character with a 5 page background,
>it was
>pretty cool to, not ultra-powerful, he's gonna be in my next group if
>I find
>one) Now, I just gamemaster Final Fantasy rpg(yes, it exists). And I

Really? Where? (I've just played teh video games...)



>am
>working on teaching him not to munchkin and roleplay. All he wants to
>do is
>fight and gain levels then take over the world.

They get over that after about the third character, I think. Especially
if you make it clear what you do and don't want. I think:)



> Ok, Sorry, I'm in an OT mood very much today. Stop playing
>with them
>for a week or so, maybe a month. Or just stop playing with the problem

We only meet once a month:( Luckily, the other guy hasn't started playing
this time, yet. I've still got a couple weeks before the next session, so
I should be able to get the guy corrected.



>person and don't let the whole group suffer. Or give them what they
>want, go
>crazy, a Hunted: 6 in my game is the eqivalant of Borrowed Time. I'll
>kill
>you when I want. In my game also that means some people with enough
>bombs to
>blow up the north american continent is after you. For awhile they
>don't
>care, get powerful a bit, ka-boom. And snipers are always useful. Take
>them
>aside and yell at them, talk with them, kill them off, or just ignore
>them,
>when they call about shadowrun hang up. Well, change this to your

That's about what I figure, too (Ook:). I'm going to explain this to him
in no uncertain terms, and just maybe I can persuade him that the Hunted
Flaw isn't such a good idea. If not, he can just make a new character,
this time according to the appropriate restrictions and rules. And I get
to approve or disapprove it.

I'm really trying to defuse the whole deal before he tries to play a
character without any background (he seems to think he can come up with a
background with the character after he's done munching him): I figure
that it will keep from having to deal with it in-game (something I'd much
rather avoid), and it will prevent further munching out by other players.



>specifications, I can be a heck of a lot rude, and shadowrun put me
>through
>too much stress, I'd rather play, but the gms here like to just fight
>in it
>and make munchkins, well, at least all the one's i've seen. One I saw
>told
>me there is no limit on attributes or skills. One person, new
>character,
>never played, had a Firearms: 20

LOL! I thought _my_ group was screwed up before I started playing (and we
discovered rules:). I must say that I pity you.



>That's too much for me. Well, sorry about the ranting.
> If you need ways to kill them off I can switch my mind into
>evil
>mode, or more help, just say so. If you wrote this along time ago
>sorry for
>the late reply. Good luck!

No problem. I've got a few of these I've still got to respond to myself,
so off I go! And good luck to you, ook;)


--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 8
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:19:29 -0500
At 05:51 PM 3/12/97 EST, L Canthros wrote these timeless words:

>> You're the GM, the equivalent of God. If you said no, that means
>>no. Express that in the firmest terms, refusing to allow him to play
>until
>>he gets a character that you approve of.
>
>I'll try, but he has a tendency of ignoring anything except what he wants
>to hear. (yeah, yeah. "Try not. Do or do not. There is not try.")
>
Then kill the character... Do it messily and painfully...

Or make it impossible for him to do ANYTHING... (Target numbers of 30+
tends to really be annoying:)).

He's hunted, you say? Gee, guess what? he's being hunted by Lofwyr!
Taht'll cool his jets pretty qyuick...:)

You're god... make him listen, or he stays home on Game Nights...

Bull-who-has-to-deal-with-far-too-many-idiot-players-Ork-Decker
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max
Message no. 9
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:11:15 -0600
On 05:51 PM 3/12/97 EST, L Canthros screamed at the world:
>> Then, say no to any other munchy character he tries. No is a
>word
>>we learned when we were two. Time to start using it again.
>
>As I said, using it is not the problem. Getting him to understand what
>'no' means is the problem.
>
>Thanks for the advice, Spaceman. The pointers will surely help.

Take his character sheet. Take a black marker. Say, "I said your
character can't have [fill in blank]." Apply black marker.




Thomas Deeny
Infobahn Austin
512 320 0556
Message no. 10
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 19:41:37 EST
On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:19:29 -0500 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
>At 05:51 PM 3/12/97 EST, L Canthros wrote these timeless words:
>
>>> You're the GM, the equivalent of God. If you said no, that
>means
>>>no. Express that in the firmest terms, refusing to allow him to play
>>until
>>>he gets a character that you approve of.
>>
>>I'll try, but he has a tendency of ignoring anything except what he
>wants
>>to hear. (yeah, yeah. "Try not. Do or do not. There is not try.")
>>
>Then kill the character... Do it messily and painfully...

As said before, I'm trying not to let the character into the game. If I
have to take time to deal with the character, that's time the other
players have to sit around being bored...unless the bounty on this guys
is big...hmmm...well, only as a last resort.



>
>Or make it impossible for him to do ANYTHING... (Target numbers of
>30+
>tends to really be annoying:)).

How might I accomplish that?



>
>He's hunted, you say? Gee, guess what? he's being hunted by Lofwyr!
>Taht'll cool his jets pretty qyuick...:)

The player neither knows nor cares about who Lofwyr is. For the love of
Pete (no pun intended)! He doesn't even know who the Big D is/was.




>
>You're god... make him listen, or he stays home on Game Nights...

Can't make him stay home. I have to game at troop functions (like camping
trips) because I don't have any easy way of organising a game otherwise.
If he goes, the best I can do is tell he cannot play (I'm already
envisioning him 'forgetting' the legal character that I'll make him put
together this week, and then ask if he can use the one I don't want him
too. He'll spend that session watching or building a new character)



>
>Bull-who-has-to-deal-with-far-too-many-idiot-players-Ork-Decker

I hear you. Good luck dealing with them, and wish me the same.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 11
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 00:48:09 +0000
|Can't make him stay home. I have to game at troop functions (like camping
|trips) because I don't have any easy way of organising a game otherwise.
|If he goes, the best I can do is tell he cannot play (I'm already
|envisioning him 'forgetting' the legal character that I'll make him put
|together this week, and then ask if he can use the one I don't want him
|too. He'll spend that session watching or building a new character)

Simple, if he "forgets" the legal character you help him with, force him to
place an archetype from the book, or nothing at all.

His choice.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 19:52:22 EST
Canthros spoke:
>>Or make it impossible for him to do ANYTHING... (Target numbers of
>>30+
>>tends to really be annoying:)).
>
>How might I accomplish that?
------
O.k. let the creative process. . . begin. First, It's harder to fire
while going through a seziure. This is one thing, and I'm sure, that
there are going to be many, many people responding to the above letter.


Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!
Message no. 13
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 19:55:19 EST
On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:11:15 -0600 "Faux Pas (Thomas)"
<thomas@*******.COM> writes:
>On 05:51 PM 3/12/97 EST, L Canthros screamed at the world:
>>> Then, say no to any other munchy character he tries. No is a
>>word
>>>we learned when we were two. Time to start using it again.
>>
>>As I said, using it is not the problem. Getting him to understand
>what
>>'no' means is the problem.
>>
>>Thanks for the advice, Spaceman. The pointers will surely help.
>
>Take his character sheet. Take a black marker. Say, "I said your
>character can't have [fill in blank]." Apply black marker.
>

To the character sheet or the player:)


--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 14
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 00:58:35 +0000
|>Take his character sheet. Take a black marker. Say, "I said your
|>character can't have [fill in blank]." Apply black marker.
|>
|
|To the character sheet or the player:)

Well.... It's another idea i suppose.....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 16:35:17 +1100
> Can't make him stay home. I have to game at troop functions (like camping
> trips) because I don't have any easy way of organising a game otherwise.
> If he goes, the best I can do is tell he cannot play (I'm already
> envisioning him 'forgetting' the legal character that I'll make him put
> together this week, and then ask if he can use the one I don't want him
> too. He'll spend that session watching or building a new character)

Simple. Keep the character sheet. If he whinges and says he wants to
take it with him, see if you can (either openly or surreptitiously) copy
out the relevant points on his sheet so when he says "I forgot it" you
can haul it out and wave it under his nose...

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
-----------------------------------------------
Remember, no matter what they say, you can
never have enough sugar. - Michael
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 16
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:46:04 GMT
L Canthros writes

> > Maybe Transys
> >Neuronet before the events in Streets of Blood, or something of that
>
> Don't know who Transys is/was, but I was thinking the Azzies, myself. I
> don't have Aztlan, but I figure that I can fudge blood mages pretty well
> myself:) The effect is the important thing, after all (killing is not
> important, it's how you kill them:)
>
Transys Neuronet, ah...... One THE nastiest corporations on the
planet, they are based in Britain and have a major facility in Wales,
yes complete as far as i remember with oriaclum mine and 'pet' dragon.
They are not as big as Aztechnology, small mercies, but if anyone is
nastier than the azzies, Transys is them.

> >nature. Everywhere he goes, he gets gang-tagged with agents/mercs/forces
> >of that megacorp. If you want to justify, wait for him to pull a
> >guns-blazing assault. That would attract a reasonable amount of
> attention,
Oh, the riggers response to 'wave lonestar book', he tried speeding
one day when i had time on my hands and the book in range, end result
hurt the characters pride and cost around 45K yen in repairs :)
Or the guy that waltzed into a corporate shopping mall with a nice
shinny shotgun, sure didn't keep it for long :)

Mark
Message no. 17
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:13:16 -0600
On 04:35 PM 3/13/97 +1100, Lady Jestyr screamed at the world:
>> If he goes, the best I can do is tell he cannot play (I'm already
>> envisioning him 'forgetting' the legal character that I'll make him put
>> together this week, and then ask if he can use the one I don't want him
>> too. He'll spend that session watching or building a new character)
>
>Simple. Keep the character sheet. If he whinges and says he wants to
>take it with him, see if you can (either openly or surreptitiously) copy
>out the relevant points on his sheet so when he says "I forgot it" you
>can haul it out and wave it under his nose...

This'll also get rid of the ever-increasing attribute it sounds like this
character might try to pull. I remember one campaign of AD&D where the
barbarian's strength attribute slowly kept rising between games. Until the
GM noticed it, of course.


Thomas Deeny
Infobahn Austin
512 320 0556
Message no. 18
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:21:01 EST
On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 16:35:17 +1100 Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> writes:
<snipping myself>
>Simple. Keep the character sheet. If he whinges and says he wants to
>take it with him, see if you can (either openly or surreptitiously)
>copy
>out the relevant points on his sheet so when he says "I forgot it" you
>can haul it out and wave it under his nose...
>

A good idea. I'll use that, too if it gets that far. But I think forcing
him to start over in CharGen making a legitimate character a better
punishment: it takes longer on his end (virtually none on mine, I can
look over the character later).



>Lady Jestyr

Thanx, Lady J.


--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 19
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:21:01 EST
On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:13:16 -0600 "Faux Pas (Thomas)"
<thomas@*******.COM> writes:
>On 04:35 PM 3/13/97 +1100, Lady Jestyr screamed at the world:
>>> If he goes, the best I can do is tell he cannot play (I'm already
>>> envisioning him 'forgetting' the legal character that I'll make him
>put
>>> together this week, and then ask if he can use the one I don't want
>him
>>> too. He'll spend that session watching or building a new character)
>>
>>Simple. Keep the character sheet. If he whinges and says he wants to
>>take it with him, see if you can (either openly or surreptitiously)
>copy
>>out the relevant points on his sheet so when he says "I forgot it"
>you
>>can haul it out and wave it under his nose...
>
>This'll also get rid of the ever-increasing attribute it sounds like
>this
>character might try to pull. I remember one campaign of AD&D where
>the
>barbarian's strength attribute slowly kept rising between games.
>Until the
>GM noticed it, of course.

I doubt he'll try that...not unless he's spending Karma anyway. My
players can be munchkins, but I don't think any of them are cheaters
(they either haven't fiugred out how to yet, or they just can't see the
point...either that or they'be been REAL subtle about it).



>
--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 20
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Correcting the munchkins (w/o resorting to violence)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 20:44:29 EST
Well. I had it all in my mind to take the discussed individual in hand,
explain the situation, put my foot down, rant, rave, call down fire from
heaven on the offending character sheet, and force him to start over:)

And then, he has the gall to not show up at the troop meeting (being
limited to the constraints of conducting most of my gaming activity
during troop activities, the meetings provide an easy way to get in touch
with the players (most of them, anyway) about once a week). I had myself
all worked up to tell the guy off and settle his hash (so to speak), and
he didn't show up.

Well, there's always next week:) BTW, for all those who have been helping
me, thanx, and keep the advice coming. I've got to get myself built up
for next week:)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

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