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Message no. 1
From: 61940038%TAONODE@*****.CSUOHIO.EDU (G.F.BURKE )
Subject: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Tue 08 Oct 1996 16:43 ET
Hmm, finer points of running, huh? Art form? Well I wouldn't go so far as to
deny that, yet I wouldn't support it either. What ever happened to subtly?
Why take down a whole building when you only want one guy (if that is the
case)? Besides...corps, or people in general, are less likely to try and seek
revenge over one perso (depending who they are), then they would if you
leveled, say a building.
-Oni

"Shhhh...."
Message no. 2
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:24:34 +1000
At 16:43 8/10/96 ET, G.F.BURKE wrote:
>Hmm, finer points of running, huh? Art form? Well I wouldn't go so far as to
>deny that, yet I wouldn't support it either. What ever happened to subtly?
>Why take down a whole building when you only want one guy (if that is the
>case)? Besides...corps, or people in general, are less likely to try and seek
>revenge over one perso (depending who they are), then they would if you
>leveled, say a building.

Well, you could always give the people inside enough time to get out...I
mean...if you really had to, I suppose...

Besides, my character didn't want to hurt anyone, just stop the research
into blood magic that was taking place inside. Well, OK...it's a fair cop.
The researchers had to go as well. And the feathered serpent. And the
blood spirit. AND the Jaguar Guards. Hey, it was the only way to sure!

*grin*

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 3
From: 61940038%TAONODE@*****.CSUOHIO.EDU (G.F.BURKE )
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Wed 09 Oct 1996 08:10 ET
*nods* Okay. I could see where explosives could come in handy in such a case.
Though here's a piece of advise...don't mess with a dragon, it can get messy.
I'm just not used to hearing people use explosives for any reason other than
overkill. Personally, I have found a new love for net guns. Anything smaller
than a troll can be taken down and effectively out for at least a turn or two.
Great way to bypass those pescky bodyguards when all you want to do is get
that guy in the suit they're standing with.
-Oni
"It's not wrong to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. If the
mistake kills you, well...at least you can't make any more."
Message no. 4
From: 3011_3@***.EDU
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 12:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
On the subject of explosives... has anyone thought about something other
than area effect death explosives? What I'm after is, has anyone thought
about shaped charges, as in "The Specialist"? (Stallone, Stone)... I'd be
real interested in hearing about anyones knowledge, experience, or take
on this as it would apply to SRII...


---Tom---
Message no. 5
From: Marty <s457033@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:18:12 +1000 (EST)
> *nods* Okay. I could see where explosives could come in handy in such a case.
> Though here's a piece of advise...don't mess with a dragon, it can get messy.
> I'm just not used to hearing people use explosives for any reason other than
> overkill. Personally, I have found a new love for net guns. Anything smaller
> than a troll can be taken down and effectively out for at least a turn or two.
> Great way to bypass those pescky bodyguards when all you want to do is get
> that guy in the suit they're standing with.

It makes a BIG difference if those bodyguards have internal radios to
call for backup...... especially if that backup has a five-minute
response time. How far can YOU run in 5 minutes?

One our last run I really got jumpy (and paranoid) when a guard we ambushed
had to report in (we were smart enough to leave him concious; we just wanted
his passcodes)... radios can really suck.

Oh, and we used explosives as well; One kilo of plastique inside a safe
storing viral warfare agents. We'd sterilsed the contents of the safe
first though *grin*
Message no. 6
From: Marty <s457033@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:28:26 +1000 (EST)
> On the subject of explosives... has anyone thought about something other
> than area effect death explosives? What I'm after is, has anyone thought
> about shaped charges, as in "The Specialist"? (Stallone, Stone)... I'd be
> real interested in hearing about anyones knowledge, experience, or take
> on this as it would apply to SRII...
>
I guess that's what the demolitions skill is for. The explosive has a
base power rating (3, 6, 12 etc per kilo) and you roll skill to improve
the power level of the blast. Essentially you are 'shaping' the
placement of explosives to the task at hand, making them more effective.

Perhaps the blast radius should be reduced on a demolitions test, or
equivalent to the base power level.... It's really hard to work that one
out, especially when using 40 or 50 kg charge of commercial explosive. *grin*

Truly 'shaped' charges, like the armor peircing ones used by anti-tank
warheads or limpet mines are a little harder to work out. All a shaped
charge uses to get its effect is a pocket of dead space in the center of the
charge..... This dead space makes the force of the blast blow through the
armour, rather than outwards into the surrounding space.
If the runners are carrying shaped charges they need a relatively wide,
flat area to place the charge, and they shouldn't expect to leave a large
hole in the wall (or whatever) afterwards. (Probably 20cm diameter at best)

Perhaps Make it equivalent to an AVM (16D) in blast radius and power (-4 per
meter), including the armour penetration ability.

Bleach.
Message no. 7
From: Mike Alex <mra0118@******.sdsmt.edu>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 18:13:15 -0600 (MDT)
>
>
>
> On the subject of explosives... has anyone thought about something other
> than area effect death explosives? What I'm after is, has anyone thought
> about shaped charges, as in "The Specialist"? (Stallone, Stone)... I'd be
> real interested in hearing about anyones knowledge, experience, or take
> on this as it would apply to SRII...
>
>

The way I handle it is every success on a demolitions test adds
one to the power of the explosive (just like in the rules...) but at any
range subtract the # of successes from the power. Ex. -> Shape a 1kg
block of C12 to blow a hole in a wall, score six successes on the demo
test, power becomes 18 at the blast point but drops to 6 one meter away.

Mike Alex, mra0118@******.sdsmt.edu
"Resistance is futile, (if < 1 ohm)."
Message no. 8
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:19:28 +1000
At 08:10 9/10/96 ET, G.F.BURKE wrote:
>*nods* Okay. I could see where explosives could come in handy in such a case.
> Though here's a piece of advise...don't mess with a dragon, it can get messy.
> I'm just not used to hearing people use explosives for any reason other than
>overkill.

Well, ordinarily, I wouldn't mess with a dragon, but we had more trouble with
the blood spirit than the feathered serpent. Remember, although you or I
would be crazy to tackle one, our characters are heroes...well mine are,
anyway. A wussy little feathered serpent is (almost) nothing :-{) Now, a
great western, or eastern dragon...now there's something that we take
rapid and large steps in the other direction from. But when the dragon
is your Johnson? Chummer, you can't do a lot. Even lots of C12 is
not going to do much.



PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 9
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:07:38 +1000
At 12:52 9/10/96 -0700, 3011_3@***.EDU wrote:
>
>
>On the subject of explosives... has anyone thought about something other
>than area effect death explosives? What I'm after is, has anyone thought
>about shaped charges, as in "The Specialist"? (Stallone, Stone)... I'd be
>real interested in hearing about anyones knowledge, experience, or take
>on this as it would apply to SRII...

The rules say that you make a Demolitions test against TN 2 to increase
the power of the explosion. In our game, that is what you're doing,
shaping moulding the plastic into a more effect shape to increase its
effectiveness. We have allowed the following to apply in our game:

The team has no demolitions expert, but one is available to make the
charges and plan where to place them. You've got to get him complete
architectural plans (not easy) and (preferrably) pictures of the target. When
you place the charges according to his plan, you can use his Demolitions
skill to augment the power of the explosion.
PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 10
From: Marty <s457033@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:22:21 +1000 (EST)
> The team has no demolitions expert, but one is available to make the
> charges and plan where to place them. You've got to get him complete
> architectural plans (not easy) and (preferrably) pictures of the target. When
> you place the charges according to his plan, you can use his Demolitions
> skill to augment the power of the explosion.
> PML
>
Fair enough, if you want to bring down an entire building without
spraying bits of it all over the landscape. This is rarely the case; We
like seeing buildings try for orbit.

Besides which, most times we don't have enough explosives on hand to blow
up an entire building; That'd take about 40kg at least (and
that's a conservative estimate).

There are other uses for explosives though;
(1) Safe Cracking,
(2) Disabling a car without nuking it (One small lump each below the diff and
the sump would do nicely)
(3) Blowing the locks off a door (the SAS are pretty good at this one)
(4) Taking out a power supply by dropping an overhead line

All of the above applications would require less than a quarter of a
kilo to do easily, though the barrier rating in questions are often much
higher than the available "power" And they wouldn't necessarily need the
plans or prior preparation to work.

As you can probably tell, explosives, pyrotechnics and combustibles are a
pet hobby of mine; It's why I did a chemistry major.

Bleach
(Laughing wildly at the thought of a certain midnight incident)
Message no. 11
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:58:16 +0100
3011_3@***.EDU said on 12:52/ 9 Oct 96...

> On the subject of explosives... has anyone thought about something other
> than area effect death explosives? What I'm after is, has anyone thought
> about shaped charges, as in "The Specialist"? (Stallone, Stone)... I'd be
> real interested in hearing about anyones knowledge, experience, or take
> on this as it would apply to SRII...

I haven't seen that movie, but shaped charges shouldn't be all that hard
to include. Make it a regular explosive charge that has armor-piercing
effects (halves Barrier Rating or armor) of the object it's placed
against. The biggest problem would be making an effective one, that has
both a good liner shape and stand-off distance.

My guess is that you could buy some factory-produced ones on the back
market ("liberated" from a military force). Or use the warhead of an
anti-vehicle rocket/missile, as the effectiveness of HEAT rounds is
pretty much independant of the velocity with which they strike the
target.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Anyone home?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 12
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:58:16 +0100
Marty said on 7:28/10 Oct 96...

> Truly 'shaped' charges, like the armor peircing ones used by anti-tank
> warheads or limpet mines are a little harder to work out. All a shaped
> charge uses to get its effect is a pocket of dead space in the center of the
> charge..... This dead space makes the force of the blast blow through the
> armour, rather than outwards into the surrounding space.
> If the runners are carrying shaped charges they need a relatively wide,
> flat area to place the charge, and they shouldn't expect to leave a large
> hole in the wall (or whatever) afterwards. (Probably 20cm diameter at best)

Not quite. A shaped charge needs a liner, usually a copper cone (other
materials don't seem to work all that well), with its tip pointing away
from the target. The explosive is detonated, and the force deforms the
cone, into a long "arrow" that gets pushed through the armor at something
like 8,000 meters a second (a typical rifle bullet does maybe 750 to 1,000
m/s). Depending on the cone's top angle and the armor thickness, various
things can happen (I'm assuming a vehicle target, as this is what most
shaped charges are used against):

* low top angle with thin armor: a large chunk, of about the diameter of
the charge, gets taken out and blown into the vehicle together with the
remains of the liner. This is hazardous, to say the least, to anyone
inside.
* low top angle with thick armor: little or no penetration, perhaps chunks
of the inside of the armor go flying. For an example, look at the gun
turrets on the Belgian fortress Eben-Emal (sp?) against which the
Germans used such charges in 1940. All you see here are circular "scars"
on the steel turrets, but no holes going all the way through.
* high top angle with tin armor: probably as low angle with thin armor.
* high top angle with thick armor: a small hole, maybe a few cm in
diameter, is made in the armor. If the armor is thin enough for the
liner to get pushed all the way through, the remaining bits of the liner
fly around inside the vehicle -- again, probably deadly for anyone in
its direct path, and dangerous for anyone else in the vicinity.

Important is the stand-off distance, asplacing the charge too close means
the liner hasn't got the necessary space to deform, while too far means it
loses momentum. Either ase results in less penetration than theoretically
possible. The typical penetration quoted for a modern HEAT round at optimum
stand-off is 5 or 6 times the charge's diameter of armor steel -- over
half a meter for a 120 mm tank gun round, maybe about a meter for
something like an AGM-114 Hellfire missile (though the warhead details of
that one are classified).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Anyone home?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 13
From: "G.F.BURKE" <61940038%TAONODE@*****.CSUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Explosives....ohhhh!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:50:00 ET
Snip...How far can you run in 5 minutes?

Very. Besides, if you catch the guy (which I will admit can get tricky)
within a few minutes, all the backup in the world won't mean squat once you've
left. By the way...my team ended up blowing a large hole in the bottom of the
elevator he was riding in...then shot him to itty-bitty pieces noce he hit the
ground level (he was already dead...a bit of over-kill...damn munchkins). And
if backup does arrive before you can get out, it presents more opportunites to
think (how can I get out without getting shot to hell?). That is, if you
don't want to do the go-out-with-guns-a-blazin' approach. Whatever works I
guess.
-Oni

"Mmmm...yellow 5, the fifth major food group."
Message no. 14
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:37:05 +0100
>3011_3@***.EDU said on 12:52/ 9 Oct 96...
>
>> On the subject of explosives... has anyone thought about something other
>> than area effect death explosives? What I'm after is, has anyone thought
>> about shaped charges, as in "The Specialist"? (Stallone, Stone)... I'd
be
>> real interested in hearing about anyones knowledge, experience, or take
>> on this as it would apply to SRII...

Shaped charges are easy, at a basic level. It's called the Monroe
Effect, after an explosives guy (called, coincidentally, Monroe) noticed
that the stamped-in manufacturer's data on explosives replicated
themselves on the steel plates used to confine the blast.

Making an effective shaped charge... that's in many ways still more art
than science: correct shape of the cavity is vital, as is standoff
distance, and even the material of the liner (no liner is worst: best is
a dense, ductile material such as copper. Gold is the best liner
material of all, oddly enough, but expense usually rules it out...) The
charge in modern HEAT rounds usually incorporates "lenses" (density
variations that distort the detonation front) and other very
sophisticated means of maximising the effect.

As an example of why it's such a black art... recently, experiments with
shaped charges firing off the weapon axis (for top-attack antitank
missiles) have indicated that putting a film of plastic over the warhead
cone (to cut drag) _halves_ the penetration.


Typically, a really well-designed shaped charge should penetrate seven
to ten times its diameter of RHA (rolled homogeneous armour - good steel
plate). A DIY charge should achieve about a third to half of that. Blast
effect is still pretty significant - the US Army uses HEAT rounds as its
secondary anti-tank round, because it still has useful blast and
fragmentation - but is less so than an equivalent HE round.

Commercially, you can buy shaped charges designed to cut anything from
reinforcing rod to girders, even a "tape" of cutting charge to wrap
around the target. The rules get way complex - I just know of this
stuff, I'm not proficient in its use.

<Gurth writes>
>I haven't seen that movie, but shaped charges shouldn't be all that hard
>to include. Make it a regular explosive charge that has armor-piercing
>effects (halves Barrier Rating or armor) of the object it's placed
>against. The biggest problem would be making an effective one, that has
>both a good liner shape and stand-off distance.

A good enough scheme for rules purposes. I'd halve blast radius, too, so
there's a penalty (or added advantage, depending how precise you're
being).

>My guess is that you could buy some factory-produced ones on the back
>market ("liberated" from a military force). Or use the warhead of an
>anti-vehicle rocket/missile, as the effectiveness of HEAT rounds is
>pretty much independant of the velocity with which they strike the
>target.

There are military and commercial shaped charges intended for roles such
as girder cutting, shothole boring, et cetera, which fit this nicely.

A good reason to have an explosively-minded PC learn skills in, and then
present as a consultant in, mining engineering :)

--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 15
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:26:16 +1000
> Not quite. A shaped charge needs a liner, usually a copper cone (other
> materials don't seem to work all that well), with its tip pointing away
> from the target. The explosive is detonated, and the force deforms the
> cone, into a long "arrow" that gets pushed through the armor at something
> like 8,000 meters a second (a typical rifle bullet does maybe 750 to 1,000
> m/s). Depending on the cone's top angle and the armor thickness, various
> things can happen (I'm assuming a vehicle target, as this is what most
> shaped charges are used against):
>

Gold and silver would probably work better than copper, I'd guess...
becasue tehy are even more ductile and malleable. Of course, the cost of
that kind of thing, as opposed to the increase in performance would be
pretty negligible.

> Important is the stand-off distance, asplacing the charge too close means
> the liner hasn't got the necessary space to deform, while too far means it
> loses momentum. Either ase results in less penetration than theoretically
> possible. The typical penetration quoted for a modern HEAT round at optimum
> stand-off is 5 or 6 times the charge's diameter of armor steel -- over
> half a meter for a 120 mm tank gun round, maybe about a meter for
> something like an AGM-114 Hellfire missile (though the warhead details of
> that one are classified).
>
Yes, well.... watch the runners try and find one of those.

AN no, the Bandit AGM in the sourcebooks doesn't equate; It's not nearly
bid enough to be a Hellfire, eight-wise.


BTW Gurth; I love you man; in a totally platonic and non-threatening
way, of course *grin*

It's refreshing to see someone who knows more about explosives than I
do.... The attack on the fort you mentioned in WWII is where I got most
of my rudimentary working knowledge on how that kind of thing works. I like
my history; It can teach you interesting things.

Bleach
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:01:02 +0100
Marty said on 11:26/11 Oct 96...

> Gold and silver would probably work better than copper, I'd guess...
> becasue tehy are even more ductile and malleable. Of course, the cost of
> that kind of thing, as opposed to the increase in performance would be
> pretty negligible.

With military stuff, you never know :)

> > something like an AGM-114 Hellfire missile (though the warhead details of
> > that one are classified).
> >
> Yes, well.... watch the runners try and find one of those.

Erm... second hand? :)

> AN no, the Bandit AGM in the sourcebooks doesn't equate; It's not nearly
> bid enough to be a Hellfire, eight-wise.

The missiles in the RBB (and the other sourcebooks) pretty much suck when
compared to RL equivalents. This falls back on the "SR wants players to
survive" thread, seeing that an anti-tank missile will hardly hurt a
Banshee unless you get a high number of successes...

> It's refreshing to see someone who knows more about explosives than I
> do.... The attack on the fort you mentioned in WWII is where I got most
> of my rudimentary working knowledge on how that kind of thing works. I like
> my history; It can teach you interesting things.

As long as you don't forget to update it for modern discoveries, that is.
Early HEAT rounds (from Bazookas and Panzerfausts, for example) had
too small a stand-off distance, because they were based on purely
theoretical calculations of their behavior. This might also be why the
fort's turrets weren't damaged all that much by the charges.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Silence likes empty.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 17
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:11:42 +1000
> > And no, the Bandit AGM in the sourcebooks doesn't equate; It's not nearly
> > big enough to be a Hellfire, weight-wise.
>
> The missiles in the RBB (and the other sourcebooks) pretty much suck when
> compared to RL equivalents. This falls back on the "SR wants players to
> survive" thread, seeing that an anti-tank missile will hardly hurt a
> Banshee unless you get a high number of successes...
>
God I hate my spelling some times; All apologies.
Yes well, if you see a banshee in one of our games you may as well
surrender... it'd be fun dong a merc. campaign for a while, but they get
bloody in a hurry, because of the size of the ordnance involved.

> > It's refreshing to see someone who knows more about explosives than I
> > do.... The attack on the fort you mentioned in WWII is where I got most
> > of my rudimentary working knowledge on how that kind of thing works. I like
> > my history; It can teach you interesting things.
>
> As long as you don't forget to update it for modern discoveries, that is.
> Early HEAT rounds (from Bazookas and Panzerfausts, for example) had
> too small a stand-off distance, because they were based on purely
> theoretical calculations of their behavior. This might also be why the
> fort's turrets weren't damaged all that much by the charges.
>
Hey, they still took the fort with almost no casualties.... it worked.
And if I recall, the charges still threw of scabs of metal on the inside
of the turret meatl, killing most of the crews.

I wanna be a German paratrooper *grin*

Bleach
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:37:42 +0100
Marty said on 11:11/15 Oct 96...

> God I hate my spelling some times; All apologies.

"What else could I write" :)

> Yes well, if you see a banshee in one of our games you may as well
> surrender... it'd be fun dong a merc. campaign for a while, but they get
> bloody in a hurry, because of the size of the ordnance involved.

I think you'd need players with a grasp of small unit tactics, else
the PCs will get blown to bits real soon. It would be a good way to have a
game every once in a while that's all it seems to be, and consists of
nothing but shooting enemy NPCs :)

> Hey, they still took the fort with almost no casualties.... it worked.
> And if I recall, the charges still threw of scabs of metal on the inside
> of the turret meatl, killing most of the crews.

Well, it's hard to say if the shaped charges did so much to let the
Germans capture the fort as is usually claimed. After all, the whole place
wasn't built to deal with airborne landings (by gliders and parachutists),
and also not for fighint in the fort itself -- most assaults from the
ground could probably have been countered pretty well. It's basically the
same sort of problem as the Maginot line had: it could deal with just
about everything, except a flanking maneuver through an area that was
deemed "totally unsuitable for mechanized warfare" by the defenders.

> I wanna be a German paratrooper *grin*

Not too difficult... Make use of your German relatives by applying for
German citizenship, and join the Bundeswehr :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Meanwhile, the next day...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 19
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Explosives...ohhhh!
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:10:47 +1000
> > God I hate my spelling some times; All apologies.
>
> "What else could I write" :)
>
Thank you.

> > Yes well, if you see a banshee in one of our games you may as well
> > surrender... it'd be fun dong a merc. campaign for a while, but they get
> > bloody in a hurry, because of the size of the ordnance involved.
>
> I think you'd need players with a grasp of small unit tactics, else
> the PCs will get blown to bits real soon. It would be a good way to have a
> game every once in a while that's all it seems to be, and consists of
> nothing but shooting enemy NPCs :)
>

Not possible right now..... the people playing in our group at the moment
are currently into role-playing encounters, and would rather bribe,
blackmail or negotiate to get what they want..... That's really cool,
because the body count is abnormally low (around 4), and they enjoy it a
lot...

Unfortunately I'm a planner by RP nature, and there was a bit of bad blood
all around because the last corp run we did required a good plan, and I
over-rode everybody else during the run, because I had a lot of good
ideas, and not all of them were things *my* character could do. (The
trouble has been sorted out though)

No-one else is into the tactical side of things at the moment, which is
unfortunate... but I'll deal with it I guess

> > I wanna be a German paratrooper *grin*
>
> Not too difficult... Make use of your German relatives by applying for
> German citizenship, and join the Bundeswehr :)
>
BTW...that was a joke
The training would kill me.

Besides, I'm considering joining the Australian army instead after I
finish my degree, as an officer trainee.... I'd try to get into helicopters;
There is something that appeals to me about belting around the country
side by the seat of my pants.

Bleach.

Further Reading

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Thwap!