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Message no. 1
From: "Mark Steedman" <RSMS@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: FASA plots
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:33:54 GMT
HALOWEEN JACK writes
>
> IMHO I think that FASA are currently think 4-5 books ahead
i think thats a little under. All the indications are that FASA's
'master timeline' is mapped out far into the future on their basic
ideas about what will happen. Books seem to be written more like 4-5
ahead of those published. Obviously though they are refining as they
go, but 'H' warns about wraiths being the future all the way back in
PAE, and until we sas ED list them in the 'astral threats list Wraith-
bugs-horrors' and horrors in SR well. And the latter was only really
sorted when HB finally came out.

> and are
> thinking OK the horrors are coming to SR2 but how can we make this
> different to Earthdawn.
Best guess 2061. ok the way books are comming out, and some are here
already but there is a reason for that date in a sourcebook.

> ANSWER by have less in the way of magical
> resistance but more in the way of technological enhancements eg the
> otaku, and whose to say what going to come next kids with the
> abilities to reshape the cyberlimbs, or kids that can drive cars or
> control remote with thought alone. This will give us an advantage
> over the horrors as they are not used to technology.
>
havn't read otaku yet but there are indications that if FASA decide
we don't win and put them, off for at least another 1000 years that
it is tchnology not 'the magic to hide' which will save us. Harlequin
admits 'we don't have enough magic to hide yet'. Considering the
cycle will peak after 4200AD it could be quite a while before we do
though all the 'big' magic is really pushing things along.

big magic
The veil Tir na Nog
reforestation Tir Taingire and Amazonia
those temples Atzlan.
Tibet its inside some sort of magical shield maybe even better than
the Tir na Nog's ! [but we have no more data on that]

> All of the indicators are pointing to the fact that the horrors
> are going to arrive sometime soon.
like folks in atzlan are plain outright saying they are due. ok so
they use yet another name but...

> It's just a matter of getting things prepared
>
Mark
Message no. 2
From: David van Nederveen Meerkerk <D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.ruu.nl>
Subject: Re: FASA plots
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:07:56 +0100 (GMT+0100)
> > and are
> > thinking OK the horrors are coming to SR2 but how can we make this
> > different to Earthdawn.
> Best guess 2061. ok the way books are comming out, and some are here
> already but there is a reason for that date in a sourcebook.

I remember something like that, but which was it? But was it about the
horrors? I think 2061 is even under the current circumstances several
centuries too early for a major outbreak (only some individuals will be
getting through I think; in ED it took more than 1500 years (maybe many many
more) since magic was there (we can assume it was there already at the founding
of Throal, but for how long?). I think after HB, the major outbreak there at
the site of the Great Ghost dance has been held off for a long time, and also
Hawaii had some of it's share, but not enough for a major outbreak.

But to think about 2061, did you notice that the sourcebooks of this year
will be published in 2000 current time??? For many people, this IS a
mystic/important/whatever-you-want year (for me, it's the year I become
30....WAAAAAAAAAAH, then I'll HAVE to behave like an adult).

Another note about why I think the horrors won't appear in large amounts very
soon: most people complained about that and FASA listens to it's customers
(or at least to their dollars :-). But only time will tell.

VrGr

David

*************************************************************************************
This is not a signature, I type it every mail again.

David "42" van Nederveen Meerkerk
Warande 128
3705 ZK Zeist
Netherlands
tel: +31 (0)30 6951487
D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.ruu.nl
http://www.fys.ruu.nl/~nederv1
Message no. 3
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: FASA plots
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:04:57 -0500 (EST)
Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
MIME: We shoot them here.

From: David van Nederveen Meerkerk <D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.ruu.nl>
>But to think about 2061, did you notice that the sourcebooks of this year
>will be published in 2000 current time??? For many people, this IS a
>mystic/important/whatever-you-want year (for me, it's the year I become
>30....WAAAAAAAAAAH, then I'll HAVE to behave like an adult).

Naah... You don't have to behave like an adult ever... And if you don't
calm down, I'll have to thwap you...

Hmmm... I'll be about 22 then.... ewwwww....

Oops... Maybe I shouldn't have said that...

>>>>>>> Nate
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
| |
| I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. |
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V++>- PS PE Y+ PGP? t+++(-) 5++ X R++ tv+ b+++ DI? D++ G++ e>++ h*>++ !r y?
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Message no. 4
From: shadow@**.kensco.net (The Shadowdancer)
Subject: Re: FASA plots
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 06:36:48 GMT
>From out of the Shadows, David van Nederveen Meerkerk wispered:


>I remember something like that, but which was it? But was it about the
>horrors? I think 2061 is even under the current circumstances several
>centuries too early for a major outbreak (only some individuals will be
>getting through I think; in ED it took more than 1500 years (maybe many many
>more) since magic was there (we can assume it was there already at the founding
>of Throal, but for how long?). I think after HB, the major outbreak there at
>the site of the Great Ghost dance has been held off for a long time, and also
>Hawaii had some of it's share, but not enough for a major outbreak.
>
OK, all you scandalists. To set the story straight, the Horrors will
not be part of Shadowrun. Straight from Dowd's mouth, reported at
Gen-Con during the Shadowrunning 101 seminar. Sorry to burst you
bubbles, but now you have been told.

This does not mean you cannot add them you your own campaign, of
course. Just that FASA will not add the Horrors to SR.


>Another note about why I think the horrors won't appear in large amounts very
>soon: most people complained about that and FASA listens to it's customers
>(or at least to their dollars :-). But only time will tell.

FASA never intended to add Horrors to SR, at least that is what Dowd
said.


----------------------------------------------------
Many people fear Death, saying it is the bitter end.
I say Death is just lonely, crying out for friend.
-The Shadowdancer (shadow@**.kensco.net)
Message no. 5
From: Brian McCallister <mccllstr@*****.bucknell.edu>
Subject: Re: FASA plots
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:38:53 -0500 (EST)
> OK, all you scandalists. To set the story straight, the Horrors will
> not be part of Shadowrun. Straight from Dowd's mouth, reported at
> Gen-Con during the Shadowrunning 101 seminar. Sorry to burst you
> bubbles, but now you have been told.
>
> FASA never intended to add Horrors to SR, at least that is what Dowd
> said.

Too late. Horrors already shown up. Twice, actually thrice. Actually, for
all you ED players out there that have read the Horrors sourcebook,
Ysregrathe has MADE AN ACTUAL NAMED APPEARANCE.

Horrors are here, PC's have fought them in published modules. I haven't
even seen _Paradise_Lost_ yet (except for the epic poem).

-Brian...

Tom Dowd no longer runs SR division
Message no. 6
From: fn213@***.uni-erlangen.de (Alexander Grujic)
Subject: Re: FASA plots
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 20:15:35 +0100
>Too late. Horrors already shown up. Twice, actually thrice. Actually, for
>all you ED players out there that have read the Horrors sourcebook,
>Ysregrathe has MADE AN ACTUAL NAMED APPEARANCE.
>
>Horrors are here, PC's have fought them in published modules. I haven't
>even seen _Paradise_Lost_ yet (except for the epic poem).
>
>-Brian...
>
>Tom Dowd no longer runs SR division
Where did the horrors show up? In wich modules ?I would be very happy about an
answer. In Harlekins back I think only minions of the Horrors really showed up
and I think the artifact from Deamon in a bottle could have some connection to
them but I'm not sure.

--
------------
Alexander Grujic

fn213@***.Uni-Erlangen.de
Message no. 7
From: Brian McCallister <mccllstr@*****.bucknell.edu>
Subject: Re: FASA plots
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:47:08 -0500 (EST)
LOTSA SPOILERS IN HERE. If you are gonna play HB, or Paradise Lost do not
read this. But hey, the very topic of discussion is technically a spoiler
for the two...

I love horrors :-) They are the only reason I can continue to GM.

> Where did the horrors show up? In wich modules ?I would be very happy about an
> answer. In Harlekins back I think only minions of the Horrors really showed up
> and I think the artifact from Deamon in a bottle could have some connection to
> them but I'm not sure.

Horrors did show up in HB, or at least horror constructs. Wha H does at
the end to fight them proves that.

I never played/read/or have heard much about bottled demon so I skipped
that one.

In Worlds Without End, a recent, extremely poorly written novel (but
stull prooly better than most RPG label novels) Ysregrathe, most
definately a horror (Ysregrathe is a horror in Earthdawn.), is the
villain. And oh yeah, he is here.

I believe in Paradise Lost horrors appear in Hawaii, H claims to have had
something to do with thier removal in Cybertechnolgy (sourcebook) and he
elaborates on what happened in _Worlds_Without_End_. They were definately
horrors.

Oh yeah, harlequin would know what a horror was when he saw one. HB
establishes that if you know Earthdawn :-)

Oops, I meesed up, i don't think is is Cybertechnology where H refers to
the incident in maui, but in the Aztlan sourcebook.

Tom Dowd has left the SR design team. He may never have intended to place
horrors in SR, the new guys do however. Remember when whazzisname wrote
the list very recently ago, he said some big new things are coming. Gee,
that ounds very SR sourcebookish to me :-)

Has FASA outright said they are coming? No, have they impleied it until
their teeth hurt? yes.

Worlds Without End establishes that without a doubt actually. Only thing
is many people do not accept the fiction as true SR world events. I think
FASA acepts them as really happeneing though.

-Brian...
Message no. 8
From: James Meiers <polbdm@****.arc.unm.edu>
Subject: Re: FASA plots
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:59:36 -0700 (MST)
On Sun, 10 Dec 1995, Brian McCallister wrote:
SPOILERS for House of the Sun and Worlds Without End.
> LOTSA SPOILERS IN HERE. If you are gonna play HB, or Paradise Lost do not
> read this. But hey, the very topic of discussion is technically a spoiler
> for the two...
>
> I love horrors :-) They are the only reason I can continue to GM.
>
> > Where did the horrors show up? In wich modules ?I would be very happy about an
> > answer. In Harlekins back I think only minions of the Horrors really showed up
> > and I think the artifact from Deamon in a bottle could have some connection to
> > them but I'm not sure.
>
> Horrors did show up in HB, or at least horror constructs. Wha H does at
> the end to fight them proves that.
>
> I never played/read/or have heard much about bottled demon so I skipped
> that one.
I haven't played it, but someone (here?) mentioned that the bottle seemed
to be created by Horrors and was old enough to be so.
>
> In Worlds Without End, a recent, extremely poorly written novel (but
> stull prooly better than most RPG label novels) Ysregrathe, most
> definately a horror (Ysregrathe is a horror in Earthdawn.), is the
> villain. And oh yeah, he is here.
At the end of the novel, Aina kills him by using blood magic. She says
that the use of blood magic at Crater Lake(surprise, that's why the elves
don't want anyone there) opened a hole to let another Horror through at
the cost of Ysregrathe. In the final pages, the description sounds much
like it was Taint who got through.
>
> I believe in Paradise Lost horrors appear in Hawaii, H claims to have had
> something to do with thier removal in Cybertechnolgy (sourcebook) and he
> elaborates on what happened in _Worlds_Without_End_. They were definately
> horrors.
There are no Horrors in Paradise Lost. I think what you are refering to
is House of the Sun, Nigel Findley's last piece of work. That definitely
had Horrors in it and they were a biggere threat in here than in HB
>
> Oh yeah, harlequin would know what a horror was when he saw one. HB
> establishes that if you know Earthdawn :-)
>
> Oops, I meesed up, i don't think is is Cybertechnology where H refers to
> the incident in maui, but in the Aztlan sourcebook.
It is Aztlan you were thinking of.
>
> Tom Dowd has left the SR design team. He may never have intended to place
> horrors in SR, the new guys do however. Remember when whazzisname wrote
> the list very recently ago, he said some big new things are coming. Gee,
> that ounds very SR sourcebookish to me :-)
Mike Mulvihill seems very inclined to put the Horrors in SR, and now that
he is the head of SR design, he might just do it.
>
> Has FASA outright said they are coming? No, have they impleied it until
> their teeth hurt? yes.
>
> Worlds Without End establishes that without a doubt actually. Only thing
> is many people do not accept the fiction as true SR world events. I think
> FASA acepts them as really happeneing though.
If the events in the novels weren't part of the SR timeline, why is
Chicago under siege by Insect Spirits. Because it first occured(but was
though up a year before) in Burning Bright.
> > -Brian...
>
Message no. 9
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: FASA plots
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 11:57:24 +0000 (GMT)
> Where did the horrors show up? In wich modules ?I would be very happy about an
> answer. In Harlekins back I think only minions of the Horrors really showed up
> and I think the artifact from Deamon in a bottle could have some connection to
> them but I'm not sure.
>
Hmmmm. Bottled demon. Yes, I thought about that as well. Especially the way
it... No don't want to spoil the fun!!
I *THINK* the horrors get a mention in cybertechnology. They have something
to do with Cyberzombies I think. I WANT THAT BOOK!!!!!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: FASA plots
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:23:23 GMT
James Meiers writes


> On Sun, 10 Dec 1995, Brian McCallister wrote:
> SPOILERS for House of the Sun and Worlds Without End.
> > LOTSA SPOILERS IN HERE. If you are gonna play HB, or Paradise Lost do not
> > read this. But hey, the very topic of discussion is technically a spoiler
> > for the two...
> >
given above etc cetera, stop reading if you don't want to know!









> > I love horrors :-) They are the only reason I can continue to GM.
> >
> > > Where did the horrors show up? In wich modules ?I would be very happy
about an
> > > answer. In Harlekins back I think only minions of the Horrors really showed
up
> > > and I think the artifact from Deamon in a bottle could have some connection
to
> > > them but I'm not sure.
> >
> > Horrors did show up in HB, or at least horror constructs. Wha H does at
> > the end to fight them proves that.
H doesn't do anything, Thayla does.
As i read it the Crawlers and toads are Horror constructs and Natch
(Thaylas companions form the story and Masquerade), is a horror,
Thaylas is supposed to say to the PC's yes that was the enemy!
Admitedly his attributes are well hopeless but that could be this
manifestation only or he could just be one of the weak ones, they
come all sizes.

> >
> > I never played/read/or have heard much about bottled demon so I skipped
> > that one.
> I haven't played it, but someone (here?) mentioned that the bottle seemed
> to be created by Horrors and was old enough to be so.
Another 'must read sometime' adventure, consens i have heard is the
bottles got a Horror trapped in it, presumably since the fourth
world.

> >
> > In Worlds Without End, a recent, extremely poorly written novel (but
> > stull prooly better than most RPG label novels) Ysregrathe, most
> > definately a horror (Ysregrathe is a horror in Earthdawn.), is the
> > villain. And oh yeah, he is here.
You mean that things in the Horrors book! i was hoping not :(, our ED
characters have enough problems after just getting marked again (oh
dice that wont roll average on 10 rolls when you need them.), never
mind the trouble we could get in for 'Shattered pattern' [if you
don't know you really really don't want too, its FASA, guess how bad
it can get :)]

> At the end of the novel, Aina kills him by using blood magic. She says
> that the use of blood magic at Crater Lake(surprise, that's why the elves
> don't want anyone there) opened a hole to let another Horror through at
> the cost of Ysregrathe. In the final pages, the description sounds much
> like it was Taint who got through.
I thought it said she caused a spike that would speed up arrival
generally, not let a particular one through. I've not heard of
'Taint' so i assume you have the advantage of having read 'Horrors'.

> There are no Horrors in Paradise Lost. I think what you are refering to
> is House of the Sun, Nigel Findley's last piece of work. That definitely
> had Horrors in it and they were a biggere threat in here than in HB
from Worlds without end, you get the impression we very nearly had a
full on scourge on out hands. oops.

> >
> > Oh yeah, harlequin would know what a horror was when he saw one. HB
> > establishes that if you know Earthdawn :-)
> >
> > Oops, I meesed up, i don't think is is Cybertechnology where H refers to
> > the incident in maui, but in the Aztlan sourcebook.
> It is Aztlan you were thinking of.
he also refers to HB, and again in Worlds witout end, which
establishes the offical version as
'the PC's won but one died, they all stayed while Harlequin returned
and he believes they are still there' Yes that implies he does not
know about the adventures final end scene.

> > Has FASA outright said they are coming? No, have they impleied it until
> > their teeth hurt? yes.
> >
> > Worlds Without End establishes that without a doubt actually. Only thing
> > is many people do not accept the fiction as true SR world events. I think
> > FASA acepts them as really happeneing though.
> If the events in the novels weren't part of the SR timeline, why is
> Chicago under siege by Insect Spirits. Because it first occured(but was
> though up a year before) in Burning Bright.

The main events in the Novels do appear generally where they are
actually big enough to get noticed in the offical SR world. In fact
Burning bright existed simply to set the Nuking of Chicago in stone,
it was to be an adventure origonally, FASA tell you the details of
the in the GM's part of 'bug city', but unless you are a Gm keep outa
there!

> > > -Brian...
> >
>

Further Reading

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Thwap!