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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: It's all FASA's fault
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:47:17 -0700
First, this is not a flame, it's just a rant :)

I just tried to re-write the damage rules concerning people,
vehicles, firearms and anti-vehicle weapons, when I realized why it
wasn't working. FASA created two different classes of attacks and
damage resistance. One for people and personal armor, and another
for vehicles, barriers and vehicle armor. Problems arise when one
class of weapon is used to attack another class of resistance (pistol
vs car). The outcome is unrealistic. The difference between the two
classes is a matter of scale and FASA's rules try to bridge the gap
rather than readjusting the scale. And I can understand why they did
this. If everything was on the same scale than you would have to
roll hellatious ammounts of dice when attacking vehicles with
anti-vehicle weapons. And guess what? It can't be fixed. I thought
a simple multiplier would take care of the problem, but the Rule of
Six system scews the odds so badly when high numbers are involved
that that doesn't work. Arrrgh!

Okay, I'm done.. for now :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 2
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: It's all FASA's fault
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:52:11 -0700
Quoth David Buehrer:
>
> First, this is not a flame, it's just a rant :)
>
> I just tried to re-write the damage rules concerning people,
> vehicles, firearms and anti-vehicle weapons, when I realized why it
> wasn't working. FASA created two different classes of attacks and
> damage resistance. One for people and personal armor, and another
> for vehicles, barriers and vehicle armor. Problems arise when one
> class of weapon is used to attack another class of resistance (pistol
> vs car). The outcome is unrealistic. The difference between the two
> classes is a matter of scale and FASA's rules try to bridge the gap
> rather than readjusting the scale. And I can understand why they did
> this. If everything was on the same scale than you would have to
> roll hellatious ammounts of dice when attacking vehicles with
> anti-vehicle weapons. And guess what? It can't be fixed. I thought
> a simple multiplier would take care of the problem, but the Rule of
> Six system scews the odds so badly when high numbers are involved
> that that doesn't work. Arrrgh!

A simplistic way to get around this gap would be to treat it like
Palladium treats normal damage and mega-damage weapons/creatures/armor:
if a mega-damage weapon is fired at a non-mega-damage creature or
vehicle then it is destroyed (the creature/vehicle, not the mega-damage
weapon). Going the other way, non-mega-damage weapons have no effect on
mega-damage armor and creatures.

It's a real simple way to do it, but it's as clear as a bell.

--
Mike Loseke | Eagles may soar, but weasels
mike@*******.com | aren't sucked into jet engines.
Message no. 3
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: It's all FASA's fault
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:43:02 EST
On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:52:11 -0700 Mike Loseke writes:
> A simplistic way to get around this gap would be to treat it like
>Palladium treats normal damage and mega-damage
>weapons/creatures/armor:
>if a mega-damage weapon is fired at a non-mega-damage creature or
>vehicle then it is destroyed (the creature/vehicle, not the mega-damage
>weapon). Going the other way, non-mega-damage weapons have no effect on
>mega-damage armor and creatures.
>
> It's a real simple way to do it, but it's as clear as a bell.

NOOOOOOO!! Anything but that. An SDC/MDC solution is NOT a good
solution. That's one of the biggest problems with Rifts (hence the may
times I've tried to convert Rifts to other systems.. SR, WoD, currrently
working with Fuzion..). That only works fine as long as you stay at both
ends of the spectrum in extremes, the second you start approaching the
"line" things fall apart. Not to mention severly segragating the game to
the point where you cannot mix the two at all. Keep things on the same
scale (multipliers may work, but nothing like the 100:1 ratio in
Palladium)...

~Tim
Message no. 4
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: It's all FASA's fault
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:00:29 -0700
Quoth Tim Cooper:
>
> On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:52:11 -0700 Mike Loseke writes:
> > A simplistic way to get around this gap would be to treat it like
> >Palladium treats normal damage and mega-damage
> >weapons/creatures/armor:
> >if a mega-damage weapon is fired at a non-mega-damage creature or
> >vehicle then it is destroyed (the creature/vehicle, not the mega-damage
> >weapon). Going the other way, non-mega-damage weapons have no effect on
> >mega-damage armor and creatures.
> >
> > It's a real simple way to do it, but it's as clear as a bell.
>
> NOOOOOOO!! Anything but that. An SDC/MDC solution is NOT a good
> solution. That's one of the biggest problems with Rifts (hence the may
> times I've tried to convert Rifts to other systems.. SR, WoD, currrently

[...]

Hey, I didn't say it was perfect, I was just offerring the idea up
because it kind of sounded like the game he was running was of the power
level where this would actually work. If the runners weren't going to
be involved with vehicles the GM could use this type of damage system
just to simplify things for himself.

I've always liked the Palladium system though. It's generic enough that
it actually works with all types of worlds and systems. It's not perfect,
but then what is? The only real bad thing about the Palladium set of
books are the "Sourcebooks of Power Escalation". I could do without most
of those.

--
Mike Loseke | Eagles may soar, but weasels
mike@*******.com | aren't sucked into jet engines.
Message no. 5
From: Glenn Robb <GLENNROBB@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: It's all FASA's fault
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:54:09 -0700
Mike Loseke wrote:

> Quoth David Buehrer:
> >
> > First, this is not a flame, it's just a rant :)
> >
> > I just tried to re-write the damage rules concerning people,
> > vehicles, firearms and anti-vehicle weapons, when I realized why it
> > wasn't working. FASA created two different classes of attacks and
> > damage resistance. One for people and personal armor, and another
> > for vehicles, barriers and vehicle armor. Problems arise when one
> > class of weapon is used to attack another class of resistance (pistol
> > vs car). The outcome is unrealistic. The difference between the two
> > classes is a matter of scale and FASA's rules try to bridge the gap
> > rather than readjusting the scale. And I can understand why they did
> > this. If everything was on the same scale than you would have to
> > roll hellatious ammounts of dice when attacking vehicles with
> > anti-vehicle weapons. And guess what? It can't be fixed. I thought
> > a simple multiplier would take care of the problem, but the Rule of
> > Six system scews the odds so badly when high numbers are involved
> > that that doesn't work. Arrrgh!
>
> A simplistic way to get around this gap would be to treat it like
> Palladium treats normal damage and mega-damage weapons/creatures/armor:
> if a mega-damage weapon is fired at a non-mega-damage creature or
> vehicle then it is destroyed (the creature/vehicle, not the mega-damage
> weapon). Going the other way, non-mega-damage weapons have no effect on
> mega-damage armor and creatures.
>
> It's a real simple way to do it, but it's as clear as a bell.
>
> --
> Mike Loseke | Eagles may soar, but weasels
> mike@*******.com | aren't sucked into jet engines.

Boy I can't wait until Alternity or Future Law comes out. (Pine for
Rolemaster and TSR).

— Elton Robb
"Your Generously Liberal GM."
Message no. 6
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: It's all FASA's fault
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:34:54 +0000
AND THUS, DIDST ELTON ROB do it, YET AGAIN!:
| Boy I can't wait until Alternity or Future Law comes out. (Pine for
^^^^

Yup, that's another e-mailer that WORKS...
But then, we've already figured out that it's not netscape that's at fault,
but you (being too lazy)...

--
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