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Message no. 1
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: list opinion wanted.
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:05:44 -0500
OK, flame me all you like, but I was wondering (yes, I am watching Xena),
what would be involved in the creation of Xena's Chakram, and what it would
be worth, in 205x.

It could make a very interesting unique item.

Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum

And a quickness test would need to be made when throwing and when catching,
but apart from that I'm am kinda lacking in design thoughts.

J
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 2
From: Tyrell Hughes <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:45:54 -0500
Jaymz wrote:
>
> OK, flame me all you like, but I was wondering (yes, I am watching Xena),
> what would be involved in the creation of Xena's Chakram, and what it would
> be worth, in 205x.
>
> It could make a very interesting unique item.
>
> Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum
not all of it,part is pure steel.

> And a quickness test would need to be made when throwing and when catching,
> but apart from that I'm am kinda lacking in design thoughts.
ok:anchor a levitate object spell to it.
> J
Message no. 3
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:52:49 -0700
> OK, flame me all you like, but I was wondering (yes, I am watching Xena),
> what would be involved in the creation of Xena's Chakram, and what it would
> be worth, in 205x.
> It could make a very interesting unique item.

Well, I think it was Bull who did Spiderman for SR, and someone else has
rules for Highlander Immortals, so.. why not?

I'm not sure at all how 'real' the chakram is; I remember seeing
something roughly similar in an old "Weapons of the Weird" column in
Dragon Magazine here (old being c. issue 70 or so.) For those not in
the know, it's a 'hollow frisbee' made of metal; the outside edge is
sharp, while the inside is smooth for catching.

I'd probably use something along the lines of the monofilament whip
rules for inflicting self-damage when trying to catch it, base damage
along the lines of a light axe -- Xena's a high level physad, of course,
so she does mondo damage with it. (Probably bonus dice in its use, plus
missile mastery -- woohoo!)

Officially, there are no thrown weapon foci, but this sounds like an
exception. Doesn't have to be made out of oreychalkem, but that
wouldn't hurt, either.
Message no. 4
From: Gabriel Sims <grendel_22@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:02:44 PDT
>OK, flame me all you like,

Nah, it's no fun if you WANT to be flamed...

>but I was wondering (yes, I am watching Xena), what would be >involved
in the creation of Xena's Chakram, and what it would be >worth, in 205x.

First, I LOVE Xena: Warrior Princess, as well a Hercules: TLJ. I'm
kinda bummed out that I missed Kull: The Conqueror. 8(
Anyways, I had wondered about her Chakram myself, I just never thought
that it might be of use in shadowrun...

>
>It could make a very interesting unique item.

You can say that again. I was thinking, maybe the smashing blow
(physad) power if the wielder wished to break sumthin'.

>
>Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum

Why? If it was a weapon focus, yes...but, then again, if it was a weapon
focus it wouldn't focus outside it's wielder's aura.

>
>And a quickness test would need to be made when throwing and when
>catching, but apart from that I'm am kinda lacking in design >thoughts.
>
I think that it would be more of a reaction or skill based roll.

Bio Hazard
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Message no. 5
From: Geoffrey Giesemann <geoffwa@***********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:56:58 +1000
>Nah, it's no fun if you WANT to be flamed...
>
>>but I was wondering (yes, I am watching Xena), what would be >involved
>in the creation of Xena's Chakram, and what it would be >worth, in 205x.
>
>First, I LOVE Xena: Warrior Princess, as well a Hercules: TLJ. I'm
>kinda bummed out that I missed Kull: The Conqueror. 8(
>Anyways, I had wondered about her Chakram myself, I just never thought
>that it might be of use in shadowrun...
>
>>
>>It could make a very interesting unique item.
>
>You can say that again. I was thinking, maybe the smashing blow
>(physad) power if the wielder wished to break sumthin'.
>
>>
>>Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum
>
>Why? If it was a weapon focus, yes...but, then again, if it was a weapon
>focus it wouldn't focus outside it's wielder's aura.
>
>>
>>And a quickness test would need to be made when throwing and when
>>catching, but apart from that I'm am kinda lacking in design >thoughts.
>>
>I think that it would be more of a reaction or skill based roll.
>
>Bio Hazard

I'd flame Xena but then; I love Star Trek, so I won't. Anyway it'd need to
made out of orichalcum, if it's going as powerful as I'm guessing here. You
could also include Xena (add superhero of your choice) as an extremely
powerful phyad.

Geoff

----------------
'Press any key to continue,
and any other key to quit.'
---------------
Message no. 6
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:26:25 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-14 18:17:14 EDT, you write:

> OK, flame me all you like, but I was wondering (yes, I am watching Xena),
> what would be involved in the creation of Xena's Chakram, and what it
would
> be worth, in 205x.
>
> It could make a very interesting unique item.
>
> Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum
>
> And a quickness test would need to be made when throwing and when
catching,
> but apart from that I'm am kinda lacking in design thoughts.

Let's see, maybe not made of orichalcum, would make the cost exorbitant. As
for the cutting edge it could be made of dikote, the edge is made to fit into
the chakram, and can be replaced when needed. As for the returning part, a
Magic Fingers anchoring on the user could be used to bring the chakram back
to the user.
Message no. 7
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:18:16 -0500
At 11:02 PM 9/14/97 PDT, Gabriel Sims wrote:
#Anyways, I had wondered about her Chakram myself, I just never thought
#that it might be of use in shadowrun...
It could be used as a "quiet" incapacitator

#>Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum
#
#Why? If it was a weapon focus, yes...but, then again, if it was a weapon
#focus it wouldn't focus outside it's wielder's aura.
Well, it could be a weapon focus that is thrown.... maybe the aura extends
with it or something.


--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 8
From: Gabriel Sims <grendel_22@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:32:11 PDT
heheheheheheh....

>
>#>Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum

>#Why? If it was a weapon focus, yes...but, then again, if it was a
>#weapon focus it wouldn't focus outside it's wielder's aura.

>Well, it could be a weapon focus that is thrown.... maybe the aura
>extends with it or something.

If you read Awakenings, it says (somewhere) that you can't have ranged
weapon foci because your aura doesn't extend that far. Weapon Foci
cease to function outside of their owners aura's.

Bio-Hazard

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Message no. 9
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:00:25 EDT
On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:05:44 -0500 Jaymz <justin@******.NET> writes:
>OK, flame me all you like, but I was wondering (yes, I am watching
Xena),
>what would be involved in the creation of Xena's Chakram, and what it
would
>be worth, in 205x.
>
>It could make a very interesting unique item.
>Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum

Why? Is it magical? (probably rhetorical given how the thing works..)

>And a quickness test would need to be made when throwing and when
catching,
>but apart from that I'm am kinda lacking in design thoughts.

Why not a 'Throwing Weapons' test?

~Tim
Message no. 10
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:43:50 -0500
At 10:00 PM 9/15/97 EDT, Tim Cooper wrote:
#On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:05:44 -0500 Jaymz <justin@******.NET> writes:
#>OK, flame me all you like, but I was wondering (yes, I am watching
#Xena),
#>what would be involved in the creation of Xena's Chakram, and what it
#would
#>be worth, in 205x.
#>
#>It could make a very interesting unique item.
#>Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum
#
#Why? Is it magical? (probably rhetorical given how the thing works..)

Well, it's either magical or the thrower has a really good pool shot!

#
#>And a quickness test would need to be made when throwing and when
#catching,
#>but apart from that I'm am kinda lacking in design thoughts.
#
#Why not a 'Throwing Weapons' test?

That could work too.
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 11
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:42:12 +0100
|#>Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum
|#
|#Why? If it was a weapon focus, yes...but, then again, if it was a weapon
|#focus it wouldn't focus outside it's wielder's aura.
|Well, it could be a weapon focus that is thrown.... maybe the aura extends
|with it or something.

I suppose one idea for this weapon would be a weapon in two parts.

One part could be in item of jewelery, connected magically to the thrown
half of the weapon.

(The jewelery being the part that must stay in contact with the aura of the
wielder...)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
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Message no. 12
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:47:50 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-14 18:17:09 EDT, justin@******.NET writes:

Xena aside (and damn but I have too many players who want that damn thing.
Ranks right up there with the "glaive" from Krull a few years ago).

> It could make a very interesting unique item.
> Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum

Partially, due to SR's limited view on enchantment, you are correct.

> And a quickness test would need to be made when throwing and when
catching,
> but apart from that I'm am kinda lacking in design thoughts.

Not necessarily, how about "Thrown Weapons (Boomerangs)"?

As for how to make it? A Magic Fingers (or maybe even Use Skill) spell would
need to be partially involved, with a modification allowing for it to be
"Deep Mind Interaction", so it would responde more or less to the user's
subconscious mind. This way it could redirect itself (seemingly on it's own)
as well as return to the user. If the user were an individual with Astral
Perception, they could have it as a weapon foci and monitor the magic as it
goes. Hell, with the "subconscious" connection, the monitoring becomes
automatic, though the thrower becomes dual natured as they "turn on" their
astral perception automatically (and you just thought those mad eyes of
Lucy's were her acting, she's assensing buddy ;)
-K
Message no. 13
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:50:30 EDT
On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:05:44 -0500 Jaymz <justin@******.NET> writes:
>OK, flame me all you like, but I was wondering (yes, I am watching
Xena),
>what would be involved in the creation of Xena's Chakram, and what it
would
>be worth, in 205x.

A chakram on the open market would run about 15-20 nuyen, and would be
(STR+2)L (damage code courtesy of Heroes Unlimited and my handy-dandy
Rifts-to-SR conversion charts.)

>It could make a very interesting unique item.

Only if you aren't in India, which I believe is where it comes from.

>Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum

Only if you wanted an overly expensive chakram. Remeber, Weapon Foci
shut off when they leave your hand.

>And a quickness test would need to be made when throwing and when
catching,
>but apart from that I'm am kinda lacking in design thoughts.

Umm, I'd say just a skill test, and if you want it to bounce all over
the place, apply a +1 TN for each bounce, and an additional +2 TN for
having it come back. (Remove the +2 snd apply a +1 for every other bounce
if the character has specialized in chakram - that'd be an aerodynamic
weapon for those of you that don't know. =) ) Quickness test to catch it
without losing a few fingers is definitely in order, though.

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page -
http://members.aol.com/w0lfstar

"If you took the IQ's of everyone here and converted it to a temperature,
you could
lightly toast a marshmallow." - CHS Class of '93 Yearbook quote.

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Message no. 14
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:32:25 +0000
> >Of course, it would have to be made of orichalcum
>
> Only if you wanted an overly expensive chakram. Remeber, Weapon Foci
> shut off when they leave your hand.

I had a player propose a throwing Knife Weapon Focus ...on the theory
that the increase in skill would still apply when he tossed it. Of
course, that makes for a very expensive and dangerous (astral link)
toy, but it was just an idea.


Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 15
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:57:59 +0100
Brett Borger said on 8:32/17 Sep 97...

> I had a player propose a throwing Knife Weapon Focus ...on the theory
> that the increase in skill would still apply when he tossed it. Of
> course, that makes for a very expensive and dangerous (astral link)
> toy, but it was just an idea.

Counter the argument by saying that the extra dice of a weapon focus don't
actually increase your skill, but make the weapon seek out the target, and
that they're added to your skill is because that's easier for the rules
side of things.
Since a weapon focus only works when it's in the character's hand, the
throwing knife would try to "home in" on the target until it leaves the
hand, at which point it just becomes a dead object flying through space
without making the automatic course corrections it would make if it were
used to stab with.

It might work...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 16
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:37:18 -0500
At 11:57 AM 9/18/97 +0100, Gurth wrote:
#Brett Borger said on 8:32/17 Sep 97...
#
#> I had a player propose a throwing Knife Weapon Focus ...on the theory
#> that the increase in skill would still apply when he tossed it. Of
#> course, that makes for a very expensive and dangerous (astral link)
#> toy, but it was just an idea.
#
#Counter the argument by saying that the extra dice of a weapon focus don't
#actually increase your skill, but make the weapon seek out the target, and
#that they're added to your skill is because that's easier for the rules
#side of things.
#Since a weapon focus only works when it's in the character's hand, the
#throwing knife would try to "home in" on the target until it leaves the
#hand, at which point it just becomes a dead object flying through space
#without making the automatic course corrections it would make if it were
#used to stab with.

Actually, strange theory coming up.

What if you had a throwing knife focus, tied to a string... and held onto
the string.

Would you still be in contact with the weapon?

--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 17
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:13:09 -0400
Jaymz[SMTP:justin@******.NET] wrote:
> #Since a weapon focus only works when it's in the character's hand, the
> #throwing knife would try to "home in" on the target until it leaves the
> #hand, at which point it just becomes a dead object flying through space
> #without making the automatic course corrections it would make if it were
> #used to stab with.
>
> Actually, strange theory coming up.
>
> What if you had a throwing knife focus, tied to a string... and held onto
> the string.
>
> Would you still be in contact with the weapon?

Ah, yes the "arrow-on-a-string" trick. It *would* work, however
the string would have to be a part of the weapon focus. And
that does *nasty* things to the cost of the weapon...

You could buy a rating 0 weapon focus with a reach of no more
than 9 with 1MY. Not terribly useful.

James
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:18:56 +0100
Jaymz said on 9:37/18 Sep 97...

> Actually, strange theory coming up.
>
> What if you had a throwing knife focus, tied to a string... and held onto
> the string.
>
> Would you still be in contact with the weapon?

As long as the string is actually part of the focus, i.e. it was tied to
the knife when the focus was made, and it has never been untied from it,
then yes, I'd say it's part of the focus and you get your bonus when you
throw the knife (at a +2 or so to the TN, as throwing a knife with a piece
of string tied to it is more difficult *GM grin*) In the same way you
could enchant an arrow-with-string and get the weapon focus' bonus dice.

(And yes, that would allow you to enchant wire-guided anti-tank missiles,
as long as you keep in contact with the container until the missile hits.
It's just a bit expensive...)

One thing for the player and GM to remember is that changing a focus
destroys its bond -- so if someone cuts the string tied to the knife, it's
not a weapon focus anymore but a common throwing knife with a bit of
string tied to it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 19
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:28:21 -0500
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Jaymz wrote:

> At 11:57 AM 9/18/97 +0100, Gurth wrote:
> #Brett Borger said on 8:32/17 Sep 97...
> #
> #> I had a player propose a throwing Knife Weapon Focus ...on the theory
> #> that the increase in skill would still apply when he tossed it. Of
> #> course, that makes for a very expensive and dangerous (astral link)
> #> toy, but it was just an idea.
> #
> #Counter the argument by saying that the extra dice of a weapon focus don't
> #actually increase your skill, but make the weapon seek out the target, and
> #that they're added to your skill is because that's easier for the rules
> #side of things.
> #Since a weapon focus only works when it's in the character's hand, the
> #throwing knife would try to "home in" on the target until it leaves the
> #hand, at which point it just becomes a dead object flying through space
> #without making the automatic course corrections it would make if it were
> #used to stab with.
>
> Actually, strange theory coming up.
>
> What if you had a throwing knife focus, tied to a string... and held onto
> the string.
>
> Would you still be in contact with the weapon?
>

Hmmmmm! (sound of gears turning)
Faboo! Something like the spear-thingy that Scoripian uses in the
Mortal Kombat viedo game! The string would have to be a metal chain
attached to the weapon at the time it was forged to be considered "part"
of it. But I see no reason that it couldn't happen. Or maybe it could be
like that sword in Ninja Scroll, with the mono-filiment line attached to
it. hmmm. I would rule that it would be much more expensive and would have
to be commisioned by the PhysAd.

-->Czar Eggbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar-"What-ABOUT-boB?"- Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
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It's not the meat, it's the motion. And it's not the pipe - it's the will."
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Scorched Earth Party
http://cspo.queensu.ca/~fletcher/Scorch/
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Message no. 20
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117" <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:14:16 -0500
You wrote:
> Hmmmmm! (sound of gears turning)
> Faboo! Something like the spear-thingy that Scoripian uses in the
> Mortal Kombat viedo game! The string would have to be a metal chain
> attached to the weapon at the time it was forged to be considered "part"
> of it. But I see no reason that it couldn't happen. Or maybe it could be
> like that sword in Ninja Scroll, with the mono-filiment line attached to
> it. hmmm. I would rule that it would be much more expensive and would have
> to be commisioned by the PhysAd.

Actually, the kusari-gama and other 'ninja' weapons could concievably work
somewhat similarly to what you want. They're not throwing weapons per se,
rather for entangling, but it's a direction to look into for traditional
weaponry.

As for the 'string' having to be a chain and part of the original forging for
enchanting, bollicks on that. Do weapon foci have no wooden or other
ornamental parts added after forging? Yeah, I thought so. Attach said
rope/whatever before the enchanting, easy as pie.

losthalo
Message no. 21
From: Sean Martinez <el_bandit@****.COM>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:04:55 -0400
Czar wrote:

>BTW here's a kinda new topic for ya's: How many of you play a non PhysAd
>with a weapon focus? I have 2, so far, that I have made and am waiting
to
>play, one's a Hermetic Counjuring Adept and the other is an Enchanting
>Adept (this one was a "nobody ever plays one" type of char). So any
>others?

The cat shamen in my game had a weapon Focus 5/Power Focus 5 crafted in
the form of a sword. She waited a year in game time, and a year and a
half in real time to get it.

The leader of the Rival Shadowrun team, who is a griffon shamen also has
a similar item.

I once had 2 Aztech Bloodmages (NPC villan) that had a Knife Weapon Foci
at diffent times in the campaign.

-El Bandit

Http://members.aol.com/elbandit/index.html
Message no. 22
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:38:59 GMT
> Czar wrote:
>
> >BTW here's a kinda new topic for ya's: How many of you play a non PhysAd
> >with a weapon focus? I have 2, so far, that I have made and am waiting
> to
> >play, one's a Hermetic Counjuring Adept and the other is an Enchanting
> >Adept (this one was a "nobody ever plays one" type of char). So any
> >others?
>
The last time i played a decently powered mage he made himslef a
quaterstaff, about rating 6 i think.

Non physical adepts with foci in games i've been involved in though
are quite common, why because they home build them, check the rules
carefully and go make your own oricalcum and formula total time about
3 months, cost 30-40,000 and 1 point of karma :), now what force was
it you wanted. [you make the thing yourself, buy lots of radicals and
make your own orialcum and use lots of extra units]

One NPC mage in my high powered game has a rating 10 he made himself,
not that hes really had all that much cause to belt anyone with it,
though given what his armed combat skill is these days it's not half
as useful as i once was, yes this guy could roll more dice than even
a munched starting adept, why because he's good [the damage code mind
on the physical is hopeless becasue he's not all that strong].

Other major NPC's often show up with small foci, power or weapon.

Mark
Message no. 23
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:12:28 -0400
Mark Steedman[SMTP:M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK] wrote:
> One NPC mage in my high powered game has a rating 10 he made himself,
> not that hes really had all that much cause to belt anyone with it,
> though given what his armed combat skill is these days it's not half
> as useful as i once was, yes this guy could roll more dice than even
> a munched starting adept, why because he's good [the damage code mind
> on the physical is hopeless becasue he's not all that strong].

So how many dice does he roll? 50? 60?

Just curious... I got a starting character up to just over 40 dice
once... :-)

(No - I never played him; just a concept character)

James
Message no. 24
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:16:47 -0500
On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:

> Mark Steedman[SMTP:M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK] wrote:
> > One NPC mage in my high powered game has a rating 10 he made himself,
> > not that hes really had all that much cause to belt anyone with it,
> > though given what his armed combat skill is these days it's not half
> > as useful as i once was, yes this guy could roll more dice than even
> > a munched starting adept, why because he's good [the damage code mind
> > on the physical is hopeless becasue he's not all that strong].
>
> So how many dice does he roll? 50? 60?
>
> Just curious... I got a starting character up to just over 40 dice
> once... :-)
>
> (No - I never played him; just a concept character)
>
> James
>
I'm going to regret this but: How did you get over 40 dice?

--->Czar


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar-"What-ABOUT-boB?"- Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"It's not the heat, it's the humidity.It's not the voltage, it's the current.
It's not the meat, it's the motion. And it's not the pipe - it's the will."
- Jeff Vogel
Scorched Earth Party
http://cspo.queensu.ca/~fletcher/Scorch/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 25
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:46:38 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-25 10:16:44 EDT, el_bandit@****.COM writes:

>
> Czar wrote:
>
> >BTW here's a kinda new topic for ya's: How many of you play a non PhysAd
> >with a weapon focus? I have 2, so far, that I have made and am waiting
> to
> >play, one's a Hermetic Counjuring Adept and the other is an Enchanting
> >Adept (this one was a "nobody ever plays one" type of char). So any
> >others?
>
Hey there Czar, careful of what you say. "Binder-in-the-Dark" is far from a
"nobody ever plays one" type of character (Enchanter Adept- Ometeotl).
Actually, he's my fave, even if he did find a way to beat the system here
recently.
-Keith
Message no. 26
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:45:20 GMT
Ojaste,James writes
> Mark Steedman[SMTP:M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK] wrote:
> > One NPC mage in my high powered game has a rating 10 he made himself,
> > not that hes really had all that much cause to belt anyone with it,
> > though given what his armed combat skill is these days it's not half
> > as useful as i once was, yes this guy could roll more dice than even
> > a munched starting adept, why because he's good [the damage code mind
> > on the physical is hopeless becasue he's not all that strong].
>
> So how many dice does he roll? 50? 60?
>
At the moment it would be 37 including combat pool and weapon
customisation. Skill 8+1, plus focus, plus 17 dice pool (skill limits
i have combat sense and a LOT of successes. [as a note this NPC is no
munchkin, though he could easily terminate anything short about great
dragons, hes just been about in various high powered games as an NPC
for about 4 years and keeps getting a trickle of karma, it adds up,
1000+ buys all sorts!]
With karma this guy could roll over 60 dice. As for magic, don't ask,
there are holes in the Grimiore, unpreped its insane, preped its
tripple figures. It would be better for the GM's here the techniques
for that aren't commented on.

> Just curious... I got a starting character up to just over 40 dice
> once... :-)
>
> (No - I never played him; just a concept character)
>
Well i said munchkined, not absolute max.

Best so far [starting character, no i haven't built this]
A tech
B phsad
C atts
D skills
E Human

Armed 6 (some games allow concentrations above 6, i dont)
improved unarmed 6
reflex recorder armed +1
custom weapon +1
enhanced articulation +1
Couple of Weapon foci, sword and knife, total rating about 8 at a
guess before resources run out, assuming you allow those 50 force for
bonding costs [+8]
dual weapon combat sword and knife 6

total becomes 6+6+1+1+1 * 2 = 30dice, throw in 8 focus and 6 combat
pool for 44 dice.

No i wouldn't want this in my game! Though the sensibly built
physical adept i'm playing at the moment in a low powered game can
still roll up to 24 dice if he wants to using 2 weapons, and hes got
a very diverse list of physad powers, including things like
temperature tolerance.

Mark
Message no. 27
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:21:35 -0400
Czar Eggbert[SMTP:czregbrt@*********.EDU] wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> > So how many dice does he roll? 50? 60?
> >
> > Just curious... I got a starting character up to just over 40 dice
> > once... :-)
> I'm going to regret this but: How did you get over 40 dice?
>
> --->Czar

Basically with a gross abuse of the poor dual weapon rule.

It's a physad, so:
-Dual weapon specialization = 6 skill pts
(allows up to 6 combat pool)
-Armed combat/Edged/Dikote Cougar fineblade long = 6 skill pts
(provides 8 dice per weapon)
-Improved armed combat = 3 magic
(another 6 dice per weapon)
-Reflex recorder
(another 2? dice per weapon)
-Customized weapons
(another die per weapon)
-Enhanced articulation
(one die)
-Cerebral booster (for task pool)
(one die)

That's 6 + (8 + 6 + 2 + 1) * 2 + 1 + 1 = 42 dice...
cost: 12 skill points
3 magic
a bunch of money (you'd want cultured bioware, for one)

I think that's it - it's been almost a year since I built him, but that
looks about right.

James Ojaste
Message no. 28
From: Rick J Irvine <irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:36:36 -0500
James wrote:
>
> Basically with a gross abuse of the poor dual weapon rule.
(snip)
> That's 6 + (8 + 6 + 2 + 1) * 2 + 1 + 1 = 42 dice...
> cost: 12 skill points
> 3 magic
> a bunch of money (you'd want cultured bioware, for one)
>
> I think that's it - it's been almost a year since I built him, but that
> looks about right.

One Renraku Guard to another: "Frag, Fred, look at that guy on monitor 3!
To hell with sending the standard shadowrun response team, send in the
heavies! These guys'll slaughter our standard response team!"

This is going to happen to ol' Cheetah the Saturday after next, *Rowr!*
(Thanks to the guy with the Berret and an over-reactive trigger finger on a
satchel of C4, DOH!)

- Cheetah
Message no. 29
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:29:27 +0000
On 30 Sep 97, Ojaste,James [NCR] disseminated foul capitalist
propaganda by writing:

> Basically with a gross abuse of the poor dual weapon rule.
>
> It's a physad, so:
> -Dual weapon specialization = 6 skill pts
> (allows up to 6 combat pool)
> -Armed combat/Edged/Dikote Cougar fineblade long = 6 skill pts
> (provides 8 dice per weapon)
> -Improved armed combat = 3 magic
> (another 6 dice per weapon)

Ummm... I seem to remember that with Improved ability power you can
only spend up to 1 Magic point on 1 skill, giving you a max of 2
dice. I could be wrong, though (Anybody with the BBB out there?
Gurth?) And that does not increase skill. Just roll additional dice.

> -Reflex recorder
> (another 2? dice per weapon)

One dice, and that does not increase skill - just roll one more dice,
just like enhanced articulation or custom weapons. But for
concentration, you pay only 10k¥ and 0.1 BI instead of 25k¥ and 0.25
BI. (Well, since you've lowered your magic rating anyway, get a
smartlinked sword :>> ).

> -Customized weapons
> (another die per weapon)
> -Enhanced articulation
> (one die)
> -Cerebral booster (for task pool)
> (one die)

Task pool applies only to Technical/B/R skills. Not melee combat.
(IIRC. Again, anybody with BBB).

> That's 6 + (8 + 6 + 2 + 1) * 2 + 1 + 1 = 42 dice...

So that would be 6 (pool) + (8 skill)*2 + 2 (dice from Improved
ability) + 1 (reflex recorder) +1 (enhanced articulation) +1 or 2
(custom weapons - now that's two weapons, so by whining long enough
maybe one could persuade a weak-willed GM that he should get two
dice) for a whamming total of: 6+8x2+2+1+1+2 = 28 dice. Far
from 40.

(You could take a geasa on the Improved ability to have one or two
dice more. That's all).

Of course, I don't have the book here, so this is all from memory
- and I don't remember the dual weapons rule from FoF... I think I
did it right.

Anyway, I'm sure Imp. ability and all those funky reflex recorders
only give additional dice, so they do increase the probability of a
fumble. Oh, yeah, fumble: you roll 28 dice and if you've got 8 or
more ones (skill is 8), you get a fumble... Heh. That's not so hard.


SecJoe: "Wow, Bob, look at this guy with those flashy blades. He
really knows how to play with them. Maybe we better call HRT?"
SecBob: "Wait a moment."
PhysAd: (stabs himself in his thigh with one knife) "OUCH!"
SecBob: "See, Joe? My mom has told me that one shouldn't play with
two blades at once." <grin>



Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/m=
ike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)=
/House Scholae Palatinae
LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR - regularly.
Message no. 30
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 12:21:42 +0100
Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 22:29/30 Sep 97...

> > -Improved armed combat = 3 magic
> > (another 6 dice per weapon)
>
> Ummm... I seem to remember that with Improved ability power you can
> only spend up to 1 Magic point on 1 skill, giving you a max of 2
> dice. I could be wrong, though (Anybody with the BBB out there?
> Gurth?) And that does not increase skill. Just roll additional dice.

You can take as many extra dice as you have levels in the skill -- with
Unarmed Combat 6 you can take up to 6 extra dice, at a cost of .5 Magic
per die of course.

> > -Reflex recorder
> > (another 2? dice per weapon)
>
> One dice, and that does not increase skill - just roll one more dice,
> just like enhanced articulation or custom weapons.

That's a technicality and highly debatable -- what is an extra level in a
skill except for one more die to roll? Oh yeah, a slightly higher TN for
things that target that skill, but I'd say a reflex recorder helps out
there as well.

> > -Cerebral booster (for task pool)
> > (one die)
>
> Task pool applies only to Technical/B/R skills. Not melee combat.
> (IIRC. Again, anybody with BBB).

Yep.

> > That's 6 + (8 + 6 + 2 + 1) * 2 + 1 + 1 = 42 dice...
>
> So that would be 6 (pool) + (8 skill)*2 + 2 (dice from Improved
> ability) + 1 (reflex recorder) +1 (enhanced articulation) +1 or 2
> (custom weapons - now that's two weapons, so by whining long enough
> maybe one could persuade a weak-willed GM that he should get two
> dice) for a whamming total of: 6+8x2+2+1+1+2 = 28 dice. Far
> from 40.

I make it 40 dice, mostly because of the ability to buy extra skill dice
as a physad.

> (You could take a geasa on the Improved ability to have one or two
> dice more. That's all).

You could only use that to buy the extra skill dice cheaper, not to get
more of them.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zo buurman, ik hier?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 31
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 12:21:42 +0100
Ojaste,James [NCR] said on 15:21/30 Sep 97...

> -Reflex recorder
> (another 2? dice per weapon)

Only 1 die.

> -Cerebral booster (for task pool)
> (one die)

I don't allow task pool dice to be used for things like combat skills; the
rules in the cerebral booster description say it applies only to
technical, knowledge, and B/R skills; combat skills aren't part of that.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zo buurman, ik hier?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 32
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:58:49 +0000
On 1 Oct 97, Gurth disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

> > > -Reflex recorder
> > > (another 2? dice per weapon)

> > One dice, and that does not increase skill - just roll one more dice,
> > just like enhanced articulation or custom weapons.
>
> That's a technicality and highly debatable -- what is an extra level
> in a skill except for one more die to roll? Oh yeah, a slightly
> higher TN for things that target that skill, but I'd say a reflex
> recorder helps out there as well.

Not really. If a reflex recorder would increase a skill of 6 by 1,
you could spend 7 dice from Combat Pool on it, instead of 6, and you
would have to roll 7 ones instead of 6 ones to cause a complication
(if you use the rule from FoF). So it DOES make a difference.

> > So that would be 6 (pool) + (8 skill)*2 + 2 (dice from Improved
> > ability) + 1 (reflex recorder) +1 (enhanced articulation) +1 or 2
> > (custom weapons - now that's two weapons, so by whining long enough
> > maybe one could persuade a weak-willed GM that he should get two
> > dice) for a whamming total of: 6+8x2+2+1+1+2 = 28 dice. Far
> > from 40.

> I make it 40 dice, mostly because of the ability to buy extra skill
> dice as a physad.

Well, I'll have to check out the double weapons rule on the next SR
session... If the 6 additional dice (Imp. ability) would double, that
would be closer to 40, but if they don't...


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
My Turbo Light is on, but nobody is home.
Message no. 33
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 18:39:00 GMT
on 30.09.97 trrkt@*****.ONET.PL wrote:

t> > Basically with a gross abuse of the poor dual weapon rule.
t> >
t> > It's a physad, so:
t> > -Dual weapon specialization = 6 skill pts
t> > (allows up to 6 combat pool)
t> > -Armed combat/Edged/Dikote Cougar fineblade long = 6 skill pts
t> > (provides 8 dice per weapon)
t> > -Improved armed combat = 3 magic
t> > (another 6 dice per weapon)
t>
t> Ummm... I seem to remember that with Improved ability power you can
t> only spend up to 1 Magic point on 1 skill, giving you a max of 2
t> dice. I could be wrong, though (Anybody with the BBB out there?
t> Gurth?) And that does not increase skill. Just roll additional dice.

Well, you can increase the skill upto twice it's basic level (so, if I had
UAC at 4, I could add 4 points with magic)
And it does increase the skill. This is rather annoying, when you want to
increase the skill with karma again, as you have to add the magical points
to the skill, to figure out what the karma-cost is.

t> > -Customized weapons
t> > (another die per weapon)
t> > -Enhanced articulation
t> > (one die)
t> > -Cerebral booster (for task pool)
t> > (one die)
t>
t> Task pool applies only to Technical/B/R skills. Not melee combat.
t> (IIRC. Again, anybody with BBB).

Right. More brainpower won't help you in combat (not in SR, anyway)

y

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
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Message no. 34
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 22:35:17 +0000
On 1 Oct 97, Tobias Berghoff disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

> on 30.09.97 trrkt@*****.ONET.PL wrote:

> Well, you can increase the skill upto twice it's basic level (so, if
> I had UAC at 4, I could add 4 points with magic) And it does
> increase the skill. This is rather annoying, when you want to
> increase the skill with karma again, as you have to add the magical
> points to the skill, to figure out what the karma-cost is.

Ummm.. I just checked out, and while you're right about the first
part, it seems to me that you have mixed Improved ability with
Improved Physical Attribute:
"With this ability, the physical adept can raise a Physical Attribute
(only Body, Strength, or Quickness), (...) If the adept later wants
to increase a Physical Attribute using Karma in the normal
manner, the cost is based on the total attribute rating, that
is, including the magical improvements. "
But Improved ability works in an other way:
"The physical adept is able to purchase additional dice for use with
a specific general skill. Dice purchsed for the general skill carry
over equally to any Concentrations or Specializations of the skil
that the character may know. In addition to the +2 target modifier
received for every circle passed on the Skill Web, any Improved
Ability dice are reduced at a rate of one per circle crossed. For
example, passing three dots would add a +6 modifier, while
subtracting 3 Improved Ability dice. "
That does not sound like improving Skill, now does it? Also, there's
a limit on Combat skills (equal to current combat skill rating, so
you could only by 4 dice if you specialise or 5 if you concentrate)

Also, you could not specialise unless you use 2 knifes/daggers (same
weapons have to be 2 short weapons)

So, recalculated, it would be like:
6 (Combat Pool - limited by special skill) + (8*2) (specialised
dagger skill) + 1 (reflex recorder) + 4 (improved ability - limit of
general Armed Combat skill) + 1 (ehanced articulation) +1
(customized) + 9 (rating 9 knife focus - it's cheaper to buy 1 focus
only) = 38

DAMN. Close to 40 (but only due to the weapon focus)
and you've just spent 975.000¥ on focus and bioware (reducing your
magic to 5)...

Well, I guess you CAN roll close to 40. I forgot about those damn
weapon foci. (Umm... I guess with priority A the physad should have
enough FPs for bonding the focus. With point system, it's entirely
another matter :> ).




Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/m=
ike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)=
/House Scholae Palatinae
With schizofrenia you're never alone!
Message no. 35
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:17:00 GMT
on 05.10.97 trrkt@*****.ONET.PL wrote:

t> > Well, you can increase the skill upto twice it's basic level (so, if
t> > I had UAC at 4, I could add 4 points with magic) And it does
t> > increase the skill. This is rather annoying, when you want to
t> > increase the skill with karma again, as you have to add the magical
t> > points to the skill, to figure out what the karma-cost is.
t>
t> Ummm.. I just checked out, and while you're right about the first
t> part, it seems to me that you have mixed Improved ability with
t> Improved Physical Attribute:

Geeeee...Thanks!!! I just figured that I always messed it up. I thought it
was both about the same (except for the cost being based on the natural
level). Well-l looks like Charon needs less karma then I thought...:)



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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