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Message no. 1
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:53:42 -0600
On 11/18/97 16:32:05 you wrote:
>
>On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:26:28 -0500, losthalo wrote:
>
>
>> Think about it: only mages can detect mages. How many mages will want to
>> go about scanning people day after day to see who is and who isn't a mage,
>> so all the "unregistered's" can be found?
>
>Can you say "Psi Core"? :)
>
>
Care to elaborate on this one? References? Sources?

Argent

Rabiola@**.netcom.com
Argent - Elven Fixer Extrodinaire
It was hot, the night we burned Chrome...
Message no. 2
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:17:08 -0500
On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Tony Rabiola wrote:

> On 11/18/97 16:32:05 you wrote:
> >
> >On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:26:28 -0500, losthalo wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Think about it: only mages can detect mages. How many mages will want to
> >> go about scanning people day after day to see who is and who isn't a mage,
> >> so all the "unregistered's" can be found?
However, mages could create magical items that allow mundanes todetect
magically active people. An anchored detect magic spell with a temporal
link would work nicely. It would have to be periodically 'recharged', but
would allow average security types to cover a large area, especially if
people were being shunted through a small area like a gate.
Message no. 3
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:09:29 -0500
At 10:53 AM 11/18/97 -0600, Tony Rabiola wrote:
# On 11/18/97 16:32:05 you wrote:
# >
# >On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:26:28 -0500, losthalo wrote:
# >
# >
# >> Think about it: only mages can detect mages. How many mages will
want to
# >> go about scanning people day after day to see who is and who isn't a
mage,
# >> so all the "unregistered's" can be found?

What about Astral Adepts???
Way to make money.

--
/- justin@****.mcp.com -------------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 4
From: David Cordy <DCordy@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:11:53 -0800
>>
>>Can you say "Psi Core"? :)
>>
>>
>Care to elaborate on this one? References? Sources?
>
>Argent


The reference is to Babylon5. The PsiCorps is the governing body
of telepathes. All people with psi ability are test, and those that
have
any ability must either join the corps or take drugs to suppress their
abilities.

DavidC
DCordy@****.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Rabiola [SMTP:rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 8:54 AM
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
>
> On 11/18/97 16:32:05 you wrote:
> >
> >On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:26:28 -0500, losthalo wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Think about it: only mages can detect mages. How many mages will
> want to
> >> go about scanning people day after day to see who is and who isn't
> a mage,
> >> so all the "unregistered's" can be found?
> >
> >Can you say "Psi Core"? :)
> >
> >
> Care to elaborate on this one? References? Sources?
>
> Argent
>
> Rabiola@**.netcom.com
> Argent - Elven Fixer Extrodinaire
> It was hot, the night we burned Chrome...
Message no. 5
From: David Thompson <david.s.thompson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:35:57 -0500
At 12:17 PM 11/18/97 -0500, Jeremiah Stevens wrote:
>> >> Think about it: only mages can detect mages. How many mages will
want to
>> >> go about scanning people day after day to see who is and who isn't a
mage,
>> >> so all the "unregistered's" can be found?
>However, mages could create magical items that allow mundanes todetect
>magically active people. An anchored detect magic spell with a temporal
>link would work nicely. It would have to be periodically 'recharged', but
>would allow average security types to cover a large area, especially if
>people were being shunted through a small area like a gate.

Along these lines, I think it says in the lonestar sourcebook that the
mages in the star quite often (or at least sometimes) load up their mundane
partners with spell locks/ quickenings. That means that even if the normal
beat cop is mundane, he could quite easily have some system like the above,
only permanent.

--DT
>
>
Message no. 6
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 21:52:12 +0000
On 18 Nov 97, David Thompson disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

> >However, mages could create magical items that allow mundanes todetect
> >magically active people. An anchored detect magic spell with a temporal
> >link would work nicely. It would have to be periodically 'recharged', but
> >would allow average security types to cover a large area, especially if
> >people were being shunted through a small area like a gate.
>
> Along these lines, I think it says in the lonestar sourcebook that
> the mages in the star quite often (or at least sometimes) load up
> their mundane partners with spell locks/ quickenings. That means
> that even if the normal beat cop is mundane, he could quite easily
> have some system like the above, only permanent.

That's the problem I have with Awakenings. Like, yeah, right, a Mage
will burn over THREE Karma Points just for his buddy. Yeah. Sure.
Whatever you say. Here, have this stone, it'll protect you.

Your average runner gets about 7 Karma per run. Are cops any better?
Karma is a magecops lifeforce, he uses it to learn spells, Quicken
his own spells, etc. I can just see him spending it on his buddy...
Geez.

This is, basically, an example of something done to frag with
players, so they can meet 'dane cops with spells, or spirits.

But realistically, no mage has ever enough Karma...

(Oh, yeah, and the other thing that annoys me in Awakenings is all
those stories about super-killer-fast physads. Gimme a break. Physads
are dangerous, but they aren't nearly as fast as sammies, unless
they're n-th grade initiates, or have some spells
quickened/spell-locked/anchored - which goes to the contrary of the
statement in the Awakenings that "physads speed comes from his
abilities, and you can't ground through that...")

BTW: In Polish translation of Shadowrun, Physical Adept is "Martial
Arts Adept". I wanna mailbomb the sucker that translated this...


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; FIAWOL
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
I extended both of my apparently empty hands, my invisible strangling cord writhing into
position in my left, an unseen Logrus death bolt riding my right. It was one of those
times when courtesy demanded professional standards. - Merlin
Message no. 7
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 06:12:56 +0000
In article <19971118105311341@**.netcom.com>, Tony Rabiola
<rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM> waffled & burbled about Mages (was Favorite
Pistol)
>On 11/18/97 16:32:05 you wrote:
>>
>>On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:26:28 -0500, losthalo wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Think about it: only mages can detect mages. How many mages will want to
>>> go about scanning people day after day to see who is and who isn't a mage,
>>> so all the "unregistered's" can be found?
>>
>>Can you say "Psi Core"? :)
>>
>>
>Care to elaborate on this one? References? Sources?

Psi Corp.

Watch Babylon5. The guy was being funny :)
(note the smiley)


--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims - Alternative UK Sourcebook (U/C)
Message no. 8
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:41:56 +0100
>That's the problem I have with Awakenings. Like, yeah, right, a Mage
>will burn over THREE Karma Points just for his buddy. Yeah. Sure.
>Whatever you say. Here, have this stone, it'll protect you.
>
>Your average runner gets about 7 Karma per run. Are cops any better?
>Karma is a magecops lifeforce, he uses it to learn spells, Quicken
>his own spells, etc. I can just see him spending it on his buddy...
>Geez.
>
>This is, basically, an example of something done to frag with
>players, so they can meet 'dane cops with spells, or spirits.
>
>But realistically, no mage has ever enough Karma...

Do you have friends ? 1 to 3 karma points to keep your friends alive. If
mages only care about themselves, they will end alone. And no one will
succeed in anything if he is alone, be him mage or street sam or anything
else. That why there are so many organizations in SR.

Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "You are who you know"
Message no. 9
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:48:03 +0000
On 19 Nov 97, William Gallas disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

<snip mages quickening spells for their 'dane cop buddies>

> >This is, basically, an example of something done to frag with
> >players, so they can meet 'dane cops with spells, or spirits.
> >
> >But realistically, no mage has ever enough Karma...

> Do you have friends ? 1 to 3 karma points to keep your friends
> alive. If mages only care about themselves, they will end alone. And
> no one will succeed in anything if he is alone, be him mage or
> street sam or anything else. That why there are so many
> organizations in SR.

Yeah, well, the MINIMUM for Quickening something is 1. For Anchoring
is 3. And yes, I do have friends. I do give them Anchorings. However,
I don't see a mage cop giving a beat cop an Anchoring. I mean, if a
magecop has buddies, that's prolly in HTR Teams, SWAT and all that
stuff, where you DO meet mages.

3 Karma Points is A LOT. 1 Karma Point for Quickening is less, but
it's not nearly as useful as an Anchoring - when it gets destroyed,
it gets destroyed...


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; FIAWOL
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
There's mo future in being gay.
Message no. 10
From: David Thompson <david.s.thompson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:16:31 -0500
At 01:48 PM 11/19/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On 19 Nov 97, William Gallas disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
>by writing:
>
><snip mages quickening spells for their 'dane cop buddies>
>
>> >This is, basically, an example of something done to frag with
>> >players, so they can meet 'dane cops with spells, or spirits.
>> >
>> >But realistically, no mage has ever enough Karma...
>
>> Do you have friends ? 1 to 3 karma points to keep your friends
>> alive. If mages only care about themselves, they will end alone. And
>> no one will succeed in anything if he is alone, be him mage or
>> street sam or anything else. That why there are so many
>> organizations in SR.
>
>Yeah, well, the MINIMUM for Quickening something is 1. For Anchoring
>is 3. And yes, I do have friends. I do give them Anchorings. However,
>I don't see a mage cop giving a beat cop an Anchoring. I mean, if a
>magecop has buddies, that's prolly in HTR Teams, SWAT and all that
>stuff, where you DO meet mages.

Another line from lonestar sourcebook (and this one, while somewhat
realistic, is probably mainly to keep the players guessing).
You never know when a beat cop is really a SWAT memeber who is in ill favor
with the administration. Ie, he could look like joe average patrolman, but
really have wired 2 and quickened personal spell barrier (whatever spell
that is). (That isn't a direct quote, but the idea of what was written,
I'm working from memory since I don't actually own the book.)
>
Message no. 11
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol))
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:59:52 -0800
At 10:53 AM 11/18/97, Tony Rabiola wrote:

>>> Think about it: only mages can detect mages. How many mages will want to
>>> go about scanning people day after day to see who is and who isn't a mage,
>>> so all the "unregistered's" can be found?
>>

That brings up a point that came up in a recent game. Are mages truly
physcially and/or genetically different? That is, could a medkit or a
trained physician know that they are working on an injured mage and take
the necessary precautions?

We had a player working on a critically injured NPC mage, and had no way of
knowing he was a mage. She fixed him, but he lost a magic point. Ooops.
Guess he'll be showing up as a pissed of adversary some later date.

Anyways, one proposal my players had was a 'medic alert' bracelet, similar
to the ones people who are diabetic or are allergic to medication wear
today. Has anyone else come up with a similar idea?

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design

"HTML, the most fun you can have without a vowel."

Hey, there's a URL in my sig file now!
Check it out at www.lowephoto.com.

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Message no. 12
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol))
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:18:52 -0500
At 11:59 AM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote:

>That brings up a point that came up in a recent game. Are mages truly
>physcially and/or genetically different? That is, could a medkit or a
>trained physician know that they are working on an injured mage and take
>the necessary precautions?

No, since the factor(s) that determine a mage are not easily tested for
(i.e. they aren't known to modern medical science). This I get from
mentions and discussion of the idea of the 'metagene' in ShadowTech.

>We had a player working on a critically injured NPC mage, and had no way of
>knowing he was a mage. She fixed him, but he lost a magic point. Ooops.
>Guess he'll be showing up as a pissed of adversary some later date.

He ought thank his lucky stars he's not dead, much like someone who needed
an emergency tracheotomy or amputation. "At least you're alive, if you'd
rather be dead, go jump off a bridge. Why weren't you wearing a bracelet
that made your special medical needs clear, like a penicillin-allergic or
diabetic?"

>Anyways, one proposal my players had was a 'medic alert' bracelet, similar
>to the ones people who are diabetic or are allergic to medication wear
>today. Has anyone else come up with a similar idea?

Yeah, remember it from somewhere, maybe on the list, maybe somewhere else. :)


losthalo@********.comGoFa6)7(Im6TJt)Fe(7P!ShMoB4/19.2Bk!cBkc8MBV6sM3ZG
oPuTeiClbMehC6a23=n4bSSH173g4L??96FmT1Ea4@*********************
4h7sM8zSsYnk6BSMmpFNN0393NHfsSLusOH5Whileyouarelisteningyourwillingat
tentionismakingyoumoreandmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
Message no. 13
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol))
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 02:17:13 +0000
> That brings up a point that came up in a recent game. Are mages truly
> physcially and/or genetically different? That is, could a medkit or a
> trained physician know that they are working on an injured mage and take
> the necessary precautions?
According to Shadowtech, if they are different, they haven't been
able to find out how, so for all intents and purposes of this
question, they are indistinguishable from mundanes, and unless some
other means of identification is available, then the necessary
precautions will not be taken. (Or they will be taken *BOTH* on
mundanes and mages. That's also an option.).

> We had a player working on a critically injured NPC mage, and had no way of
> knowing he was a mage. She fixed him, but he lost a magic point. Ooops.
> Guess he'll be showing up as a pissed of adversary some later date.
Would depend on what she fixed him from - if it was death, he
shouldn't be an enemy (Not a friend either, perhaps, though.).

> Anyways, one proposal my players had was a 'medic alert' bracelet, similar
> to the ones people who are diabetic or are allergic to medication wear
> today. Has anyone else come up with a similar idea?

That's a reasonable standard, but the mage might not want to wear it
at all times. Might also bring us to the 'mages are forced to wear
identification' thread, too. :)

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 14
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol))
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:50:23 +0000
In article <v01540b02b097e30b00c2@[140.174.162.177]>, "David R. Lowe"
<dlowe@****.COM> waffled & burbled about Mages (was Favorite Pistol))
>At 10:53 AM 11/18/97, Tony Rabiola wrote:
>
>>>> Think about it: only mages can detect mages. How many mages will want
to
>>>> go about scanning people day after day to see who is and who isn't a
mage,
>>>> so all the "unregistered's" can be found?
>>>
>
>That brings up a point that came up in a recent game. Are mages truly
>physcially and/or genetically different? That is, could a medkit or a
>trained physician know that they are working on an injured mage and take
>the necessary precautions?

Apparently not. One of the biggest fears for a mage, is that in this
day and age of cybernetic enhancements, chemicals and bio/genegeneering
and hypojets, that they'll get sstuck by some over-eager medic with a
bunch of chemicals and shit, that will screw up their essence and
ability royally.

It does mention (I think in the BBB) that medical treatment for mages is
consequently higher because the hospitals must rely on "homeopathic and
mundane" treatments rather than the faster "toys" 205** hospitals have.

Slap a tranq patch, and a stim patch on a mage, and watch the sucker
dance the chicken... <eg>

>We had a player working on a critically injured NPC mage, and had no way of
>knowing he was a mage. She fixed him, but he lost a magic point. Ooops.
>Guess he'll be showing up as a pissed of adversary some later date.

Most likely. Assuming that he doesn't develop an addiction to the
substance (or is that another game?)

>Anyways, one proposal my players had was a 'medic alert' bracelet, similar
>to the ones people who are diabetic or are allergic to medication wear
>today. Has anyone else come up with a similar idea?

Doc Wagon contracts alledgedly will have sufficient information for the
rescuing medics to know that their patient is a mage. Emergency wards,
casualty clinics - ripper docs, probably not, that's down to the other
players knowing that a mage gets screwed. My players weren't aware of
it when they first started, and used chemicals and medical "healing
gear" on the party mage, really screwed him over - poor guy.

It's a bit difficult really, and very much depends on your view of magic
in SR. If you consider it to be well known and relatively understood,
then no problems. If you go for the "rarity" that I prefer, then it's
unlikely most medics will be familiar with it. So, the mage stands a
consequently greater risk from eager medics. Other player characters
are the mages best and safest source of treatment. The mage should know
that chemicals will fuck him up royally, so will, if he/she's got any
sense, make absolutely certain the other team mates know about it.

But that's IMO. Somone else can quote rules at ya.

--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims - Alternative UK Sourcebook (U/C)
Message no. 15
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol))
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:48:12 -0500
At 01:50 AM 11/21/97 +0000, you wrote:

>If you go for the "rarity" that I prefer, then it's
>unlikely most medics will be familiar with it.

Rarity or no, I still can't see medics not being aware of what they have to
avoid when treating a mage... Liability, if nothing else, would recommend
it, and it cannot be too much to learn after all.


losthalo@********.comGoFa6)7(Im6TJt)Fe(7P!ShMoB4/19.2Bk!cBkc8MBV6sM3ZG
oPuTeiClbMehC6a23=n4bSSH173g4L??96FmT1Ea4@*********************
4h7sM8zSsYnk6BSMmpFNN0393NHfsSLusOH5Whileyouarelisteningyourwillingat
tentionismakingyoumoreandmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
Message no. 16
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol))
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:27:17 +0000
On 21 Nov 97 at 2:17, Fade wrote:
[snip]
> > Anyways, one proposal my players had was a 'medic alert' bracelet, similar
> > to the ones people who are diabetic or are allergic to medication wear
> > today. Has anyone else come up with a similar idea?
> That's a reasonable standard, but the mage might not want to wear it
> at all times. Might also bring us to the 'mages are forced to wear
> identification' thread, too. :)
But information is power. Let your enemy know you are a magician when
you are captured, and they will take precautions to hinder your magic.
Or play "How many Stim patches can one fit on a human?" with you.

Do you really want such delicate information to be freely available?
(See, Avenger, I didn't even quote a single line! :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |'The rich control |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| The Government, |
| \___ __/ | | The Media, |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | And the Law!' |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | - Queensryche |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 17
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Mages (was Favorite Pistol))
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:27:17 +0000
On 21 Nov 97 at 1:48, losthalo wrote:
> >If you go for the "rarity" that I prefer, then it's
> >unlikely most medics will be familiar with it.
> Rarity or no, I still can't see medics not being aware of what they
> have to avoid when treating a mage... Liability, if nothing else,
> would recommend it, and it cannot be too much to learn after all.
Speaking from personal experience, it is sometimes surprising what
medics, and especially paramedics, do _not_ know.

Being a diabetic myself, I had to explain what to do to a unconscious
diabetic once - to the paramedics. They read "diabetic", saw the person
not showing reactions, and decided to use insulin on him. (hint: This
is usually _not_ a good idea. Test for blood sugar first, if no time,
try sugar or a glucose injection.)

Even one doctor I had to visit when not in my home-town didn't know
diabetes, especially not the needed medicamentation. I ended explaining
the basics to him for about half an hour (and am sure my health
insurance got charged for it as "consulting talk" :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The truth may be |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| out there, but |
| \___ __/ | | lies are inside |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | your head. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- T.Pratchett |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

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