Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Tomasz Kubacki <j23tom@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Mini&maxing & Munchkinism
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:59:54 +0200
Hi !
i'm back
One question what's difference
between munchkinism and Mini&maxing
when creating a character? (One of my players have
tend to call his char. mini&maxed)

ok i lie there is a second Q.
Who knows something more about Shadowrun III ed.?

------------------------------------------
J23TOM also known as
Clark Kent
j23tom@*****.onet.pl
------------------------------------------
Message no. 2
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mini&maxing & Munchkinism
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:34:59 -0600
Tomasz Kubacki wrote:
|
| One question what's difference
| between munchkinism and Mini&maxing
| when creating a character? (One of my players have
| tend to call his char. mini&maxed)

Min-maxing is when you take advantage of the rules to create the best
character possible (in relation to just the numbers and what you want
him to do). The Speed Elf (on Gurth's page, I think) is a good
example of min-maxing a character to get the best initiative
possible. A min-maxer is also refered to as a number cruncher.

A Munchkin is roughly defined (specific definitions vary) as a
person who fucks up the game with his playing style.

A min-maxer can create playable, fun characters. A munchkin cannot.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mini&maxing & Munchkinism
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:17:55 -0400
Tomasz Kubacki once dared to write,

>Hi !
> i'm back
> One question what's difference
>between munchkinism and Mini&maxing
>when creating a character? (One of my players have
>tend to call his char. mini&maxed)

Min/maxing creates characters for the highest effiencency using the
rules. Munchkins go outside the rules without concern of balance for
blatant power.

> ok i lie there is a second Q.
>Who knows something more about Shadowrun III ed.?

Mike Mulvihill.
B>]#

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Mini&maxing & Munchkinism
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:18:48 +0100
David Buehrer said on 10:34/22 Sep 97...

> Min-maxing is when you take advantage of the rules to create the best
> character possible (in relation to just the numbers and what you want
> him to do). The Speed Elf (on Gurth's page, I think) is a good
> example of min-maxing a character to get the best initiative
> possible. A min-maxer is also refered to as a number cruncher.

Note that this usually leads to characters who are very good at one thing,
and very poor at everything else. Taking the Speed Samurai as an example,
he could almost break the sound barrier (okay, not quite...) but he's
nearly worthless in any situation where speed isn't an issue. The same
holds true for other good examples of min/maxing, like the Troll Tank and
Mr. Indestructible Dude (both trolls who will resist anti-tank weapons
fired at point-blank range), or the (Too) Rich Kid. Yes, she's a min-maxed
character as well, except she's max money, min common sense...

> A Munchkin is roughly defined (specific definitions vary) as a
> person who fucks up the game with his playing style.

There are loads of ways to fuck up a game, though... Munchkins tend to do
it by trying to create characters who will "win" the game -- as we all
(should) know, you can't win an RPG, but munchkins try anyway. They bend
the rules, or go totally outside the rules, to achieve this goal. Not fun.

> A min-maxer can create playable, fun characters. A munchkin cannot.

I wouldn't want to play a min-maxed character for long, though. They can
be fun for a short while, but not for a prolonged campaign, IMHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 5
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mini&maxing & Munchkinism
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:48:06 -0600
Gurth wrote:
|
| > A min-maxer can create playable, fun characters. A munchkin cannot.
|
| I wouldn't want to play a min-maxed character for long, though. They can
| be fun for a short while, but not for a prolonged campaign, IMHO.

Are you a roleplayer or a rollplayer? ;) A min-maxed character can
have as much personality as a character with a depth of skills.
Also, min-max characters can be a lot of fun for a prolonged
campaign, "Man, one of these days I gotta learn how to pick a lock."
I just read three or Robert Jordan's Conan books, and if ever there
was a min-maxed character it's Conan. Yet RJ managed to write three
very good books about him, because Conan does show some growth. It's
when you continue to min-max a character during play that it ceases
to be fun.

I prefer characters with depth of skill also, but every now and then
I find out that a good character idea turns out to be min-maxed and I
didn't plan it that way. I just made a champions character like that
with a very narrow background (and therefor lack of skills). I'm
looking forward to playing the character over the long term to see
how she grows now that she's out in the world.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 6
From: MIK <Harald.Grunert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Mini&maxing & Munchkinism
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 19:56:34 +0100
On 22 Sep 97 at 17:59, Tomasz Kubacki wrote:

> ok i lie there is a second Q.
> Who knows something more about Shadowrun III ed.?
>

It's gonna be out in german in oktober '98 at the Spiel '98.

Hope that helps. ;)

bye, MIK


I HATE BILL

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Mini&maxing & Munchkinism, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!