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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (kawaii)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Fri Jan 26 10:20:01 2001
I'm not familiar with the issues, nor am I a close confidante of the DLOH,
but if it is true that FASA was sunk because of their attempt at breaking
GW's hold on the miniature's market, the opening page of wizkidsgames.com
isn't very promising.

Just some food for thought.

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (J. Keith Henry)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Fri Jan 26 13:05:01 2001
From: "kawaii" <trunks@********.org>
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?


> I'm not familiar with the issues, nor am I a close confidante of the DLOH,
> but if it is true that FASA was sunk because of their attempt at breaking
> GW's hold on the miniature's market, the opening page of wizkidsgames.com
> isn't very promising.
>
> Just some food for thought.

And an interesting aftertaste that would leave too.... but anyways... as
for the information that we were hoping to get today... it'll have to wait.
When we would have been leaving this morning, the snowfall started and
visibilty stank. Roads (and rivers) north of us are usually crazier and/or
worse than ours... so we've opted to stay home and do other work (no less
important for us).

Again, if we get the chance we'll get more information as we are able.
-Keith (still from the server because the rewiring is still going on
elsewhere)
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 05:45:07 2001
According to kawaii, on Fri, 26 Jan 2001 the word on the street was...

> I'm not familiar with the issues, nor am I a close confidante of the DLOH,
> but if it is true that FASA was sunk because of their attempt at breaking
> GW's hold on the miniature's market, the opening page of wizkidsgames.com
> isn't very promising.

Depends... From what I've heard (which is not much, I admit, as I'm not
really interested in it myself) Mage Knight does very well, perhaps because
it combines the things that make Magic and Warhammer popular: one has
collectability and the other has cool (to some, anyway :) miniatures. Mage
Knight has both, and they even look fairly decent without the kids who buy
them having to also get glue, paint, brushes, and so on and making a mess
of an expensive, well-sculpted figure (sorry, pet peeve of mine :)

Anyway, this could mean several things for SR and BT. If Mage Knight
doesn't do as well as I've been led to believe, or even collapses due to a
saturated market, then the future for SR could be bleak. OTOH, if WizKids
makes a lot of money from MK, some of that is likely to find its way into
SR, which would be a good thing.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wagemage)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 09:00:02 2001
Anyway, this could mean several things for SR and BT. If Mage Knight
doesn't do as well as I've been led to believe, or even collapses due to a
saturated market, then the future for SR could be bleak. OTOH, if WizKids
makes a lot of money from MK, some of that is likely to find its way into
SR, which would be a good thing.

There's also the possibility that SR sales could prop up other Wizkids
endeavors. It's been stated repeatedly that SR was one of Fasa's cash cows.
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Phil Smith)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 09:40:02 2001
>From: "Wagemage" <wagemage@**.rr.com>
>Anyway, this could mean several things for SR and BT. If Mage Knight
>doesn't do as well as I've been led to believe, or even collapses due to a
>saturated market, then the future for SR could be bleak. OTOH, if WizKids
>makes a lot of money from MK, some of that is likely to find its way into
>SR, which would be a good thing.

A situation that keeps on running theough my head is the Nighfall Games one;
they produce SLA Industries which is a fantastic game with a huge fan
following, but becuase they are a tiny company they have been able to
produce only five books for it in all the years it has been around. The
idea of SR going that way scares the shit out of me.

Phil

Since most of my face never gets a chance to heal, I've got nothing to lose
in the looks department. My boss, at work, he asked me what I was doing
about the hole through my cheek that never heals. When I drink coffee, I
told him, I put two fingers over the hole so it won't leak.

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 09:40:08 2001
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In a message dated 01/27/2001 9:20:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wagemage@**.rr.com writes:

> There's also the possibility that SR sales could prop up other Wizkids
>

I thought BT was? I mean, my GOD, they got HOW MUCH from licensing the thing?

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
01/27/2001 9:20:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<BR>wagemage@**.rr.com writes:
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
&nbsp;&nbsp;There's also the possibility that SR sales could prop up other Wizkids
<BR>endeavors. It's been stated repeatedly that SR was one of Fasa's cash
cows.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>I thought BT was? I mean, my GOD, they got HOW MUCH from licensing the
thing?</FONT></HTML>

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Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Phil Smith)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 09:50:01 2001
>From: DemonPenta@***.com
> > There's also the possibility that SR sales could prop up other
>Wizkids
>
>I thought BT was? I mean, my GOD, they got HOW MUCH from licensing the
>thing?

IIRC SR provided their best sales of actual books. BT books did not sell as
good, but it more than made up for that through the lisencing etc.

Phil

Since most of my face never gets a chance to heal, I've got nothing to lose
in the looks department. My boss, at work, he asked me what I was doing
about the hole through my cheek that never heals. When I drink coffee, I
told him, I put two fingers over the hole so it won't leak.

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (J. Keith Henry)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 10:30:08 2001
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Minis sunk FASA?


> Depends... From what I've heard (which is not much, I admit, as I'm not
> really interested in it myself) Mage Knight does very well, perhaps
because
> it combines the things that make Magic and Warhammer popular: one has
> collectability and the other has cool (to some, anyway :) miniatures. Mage
> Knight has both, and they even look fairly decent without the kids who buy
> them having to also get glue, paint, brushes, and so on and making a mess
> of an expensive, well-sculpted figure (sorry, pet peeve of mine :)
>
> Anyway, this could mean several things for SR and BT. If Mage Knight
> doesn't do as well as I've been led to believe, or even collapses due to a
> saturated market, then the future for SR could be bleak. OTOH, if WizKids
> makes a lot of money from MK, some of that is likely to find its way into
> SR, which would be a good thing.

It is my understanding that Mage Knight earned Wizkids upwards of 5 million
in one month on its own.... or was it 35 days.... can't recall that
clearly... but regardless, its a massive number for a games company that
isn't on the level of "Hasbro" or "Decipher".
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (http://hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (J. Keith Henry)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 10:35:01 2001
From: "Phil Smith" <phil_urbanhell@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Minis sunk FASA?


> >From: DemonPenta@***.com
> >I thought BT was? I mean, my GOD, they got HOW MUCH from licensing the
> >thing?
>
> IIRC SR provided their best sales of actual books. BT books did not sell
as
> good, but it more than made up for that through the lisencing etc.

Phil has it right to a dime ... BT products, though with numerous licenses,
had been sliding a bit to the point that it was an even-stevens level.
Shadowrun was the bull let loose in the sales division. At least, that is
my understanding.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (http://hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 11:35:02 2001
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In a message dated 01/27/2001 10:52:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
neojudas@******************.com writes:


>
> Phil has it right to a dime ... BT products, though with numerous licenses,
> had been sliding a bit to the point that it was an even-stevens level.
> Shadowrun was the bull let loose in the sales division. At least, that is
> my understanding.

<nods> Seemed that way to me too. Didn't help that BT's quality declined
heavily around the time they released the 3058 Tech Readout, and hasn't
recovered.

OTOH...SR always seemed to get CRAPPY licenses, vs. the somewhat well-made BT
licenses. (SNES Shadowrun, anyone?)

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
01/27/2001 10:52:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<BR>neojudas@******************.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<BR>Phil has it right to a dime ... BT products, though with numerous licenses,
<BR>had been sliding a bit to the point that it was an even-stevens level.
<BR>Shadowrun was the bull let loose in the sales division. &nbsp;At least, that
is
<BR>my understanding.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>&lt;nods&gt; Seemed that way to me too. Didn't help that BT's quality
declined
<BR>heavily around the time they released the 3058 Tech Readout, and hasn't
<BR>recovered.
<BR>
<BR>OTOH...SR always seemed to get CRAPPY licenses, vs. the somewhat well-made BT
<BR>licenses. (SNES Shadowrun, anyone?)</FONT></HTML>

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Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 11:40:01 2001
Von DemonPenta:

<snip>

>OTOH...SR always seemed to get CRAPPY licenses, vs. the somewhat well-made BT
>licenses. (SNES Shadowrun, anyone?)

*looks at that "Shadowrun:Assassine"-flyer*

I am not sure...

Arclight
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Frank Pelletier)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 11:50:02 2001
Arclight <arclight@*********.de> once wrote,

> >OTOH...SR always seemed to get CRAPPY licenses, vs. the somewhat
well-made BT
> >licenses. (SNES Shadowrun, anyone?)
>
> *looks at that "Shadowrun:Assassine"-flyer*
>
> I am not sure...
>
> Arclight

Could've been. Would've been. Never was.

Although. I heard that the Shadowrun PC license is not as dead as it seems.
Can't remember where, or when, though.

Frank Pelletier
Fpelletier@******.usherb.ca
"Let them hate me, provided they fear me" - Atreus
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Trin on the Undernet, Saffron on Sorcery.net
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 12:00:02 2001
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In a message dated 01/27/2001 12:10:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
fpelletier@******.usherb.ca writes:


> Although. I heard that the Shadowrun PC license is not as dead as it seems.
> Can't remember where, or when, though.

More to the point...what happens to that SR movie?

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
01/27/2001 12:10:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<BR>fpelletier@******.usherb.ca writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Although. &nbsp;I
heard that the Shadowrun PC license is not as dead as it seems.
<BR>Can't remember where, or when, though.</FONT><FONT
COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>More to the point...what happens to that SR movie?</FONT></HTML>

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Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 13:05:01 2001
>>>Anyway, this could mean several things for SR and BT. If Mage Knight
doesn't do as well as I've been led to believe, or even collapses due to a
saturated market, then the future for SR could be bleak. OTOH, if WizKids
makes a lot of money from MK, some of that is likely to find its way into
SR, which would be a good thing.

Shadowrun makes money all by itself- its the only line FASA had that had
been showing prophit growth.

AFAIK, Wizkids is finaicially healthy and Mage Knight seems popular. I
personally hate it because I feal that the concept of a "collectable
minatures" game is ver dis-empowering to the players. There is very little
room made to write rules for your own minatures, do your own sculpting /
conversions, etc. Where would ShadowRN (not to mention Shadowrun) be if
there was as little room for the use of house rules and new ideas?

IMO, Its the closest thing to a computer game there is, without the
computer. I won't even go into but the ethics of requiring people who want
a full set of rare minatures to buy tons of randomly assorted packages (hey,
it makes the company that much more money), but I will point out that the
only Mage Knight tournament I've ever heard of was won by an all-rare army
that required almost nil strategy to use, by virtue of superior stats.

-Sebastian
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Augustus)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 13:10:09 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Smith <phil_urbanhell@*******.com>
>
> A situation that keeps on running theough my head is the Nighfall Games
one;
> they produce SLA Industries which is a fantastic game with a huge fan
> following, but becuase they are a tiny company they have been able to
> produce only five books for it in all the years it has been around. The
> idea of SR going that way scares the shit out of me.

Thats exactly how things were going with Battletech, and it seems thats how
things were going to go with Shadowrun. They really cut down production on
new books to one or two a year, and were reprinting updated old books.

Either way... there'll always be plenty of online/fan support for
shadowrun... I don't see anything that'll stop that from happening.

Augustus
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 13:15:01 2001
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In a message dated 01/27/2001 1:27:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
shadowrun@********.net writes:


> Either way... there'll always be plenty of online/fan support for
> .


As per that...any statements from MKR as per copyright issues? TSR-like, or
can we expect little change from how FASA did it?


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
01/27/2001 1:27:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<BR>shadowrun@********.net writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Either way... there'll
always be plenty of online/fan support for
<BR>shadowrun... I don't see anything that'll stop that from
happening</BLOCKQUOTE>.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>As per that...any statements from MKR as per copyright issues? TSR-like, or
<BR>can we expect little change from how FASA did it?
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam J)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 13:40:01 2001
At 13:31 27/01/2001 -0500, DemonPenta@***.com wrote:

>As per that...any statements from MKR as per copyright issues? TSR-like, or
>can we expect little change from how FASA did it?

As has been said before, don't expect any statements from FASA/WizKids for
at least a week or two. They're going to be holding meetings over the next
week.

Adam
--
< http://tss.dumpshock.com : http://www.jillted.org >
< adamj@*********.com | ICQ# 2350330 | TSS Productions >
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 13:55:01 2001
Von AdamJ :

<snip>

>As has been said before, don't expect any statements from FASA/WizKids for
>at least a week or two. They're going to be holding meetings over the next
>week.

A word on this: the folks at Fanpro (they own the license for SR in
germany) will meet the Weismans ;) next week, so when I get any information
I'll try to post it here ...

Arclight
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 16:45:02 2001
At 11:39 AM 1/27/01 +0100, you wrote:

>Depends... From what I've heard (which is not much, I admit, as I'm not
>really interested in it myself) Mage Knight does very well, perhaps because
>it combines the things that make Magic and Warhammer popular: one has
>collectability and the other has cool (to some, anyway :) miniatures. Mage
>Knight has both, and they even look fairly decent without the kids who buy
>them having to also get glue, paint, brushes, and so on and making a mess
>of an expensive, well-sculpted figure (sorry, pet peeve of mine :)

Mage Knight is indeed selling well, but... The feeling I get is that it
may not last long. The games been out for less than 6 months, which is
never enough time to tell whether something will be a hit or a fad. From
reports locally, the game is neat and fun, but has a few rules problems
that make it a bit funky to play (One of the movvement rules in
particular. It's intentional, apparently, since a couple troops have a
special that gets them around this rule, but... Apparently it really makes
the game play wierd).

My feeling is, unless they get really lucky, it'll be a fad. I don't know
anyone that's stopped playing Warhammer to play this game.

>Anyway, this could mean several things for SR and BT. If Mage Knight
>doesn't do as well as I've been led to believe, or even collapses due to a
>saturated market, then the future for SR could be bleak. OTOH, if WizKids
>makes a lot of money from MK, some of that is likely to find its way into
>SR, which would be a good thing.

I get the feeling that Wizkids is hoping to get some solid licenses to back
up Mage Knight when it's sales fall off. And since Mort managed to
mismanage his company into the ground, his kid was able to pick them up for
cheap.

of course, whether or not he does anything with them is anyones guess...

Bull
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 16:45:14 2001
At 03:04 PM 1/27/01 +0000, you wrote:
>>From: DemonPenta@***.com
>> > There's also the possibility that SR sales could prop up other Wizkids
>>
>>I thought BT was? I mean, my GOD, they got HOW MUCH from licensing the thing?
>
>IIRC SR provided their best sales of actual books. BT books did not sell
>as good, but it more than made up for that through the lisencing etc.

This is only for the last year and a half or so. SR managed to pass BT's
best sales figures, then BT started to lose ground. In the end, as I said
in another post, BT was breaking even, and that because of the licensing...

Bull
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 17:05:02 2001
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In a message dated 01/27/2001 5:05:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bull@***********.com writes:


> I get the feeling that Wizkids is hoping to get some solid licenses to back
> up Mage Knight when it's sales fall off. And since Mort managed to
> mismanage his company into the ground, his kid was able to pick them up for
> cheap.

How badly *was* FASA mismanaged? And, when did it start?

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
01/27/2001 5:05:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<BR>bull@***********.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I get the feeling that
Wizkids is hoping to get some solid licenses to back
<BR>up Mage Knight when it's sales fall off. &nbsp;And since Mort managed to
<BR>mismanage his company into the ground, his kid was able to pick them up for
<BR>cheap.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>How badly *was* FASA mismanaged? And, when did it
start?</FONT></HTML>

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Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott W)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 17:15:01 2001
I'm real curious to know why FASA launched Crucible. Seeing as how
Vor was a new, unproven line, Crimson Skies was losing money, and BT
was getting close to the line, why would they launch another minis
game that might end up being competition for the above?
Not that I know a damn thing about business, mind you, but it seems
a case of biting of more than you can chew.

====-Boondocker

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (J. Keith Henry)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 17:35:07 2001
From: "Scott W" <see_scott_run@*****.com>
Subject: Re: Minis sunk FASA?


> I'm real curious to know why FASA launched Crucible. Seeing as how
> Vor was a new, unproven line, Crimson Skies was losing money, and BT
> was getting close to the line, why would they launch another minis
> game that might end up being competition for the above?
> Not that I know a damn thing about business, mind you, but it seems
> a case of biting of more than you can chew.

My *personal* opinion is that your last sentence there is probably correct.
Only the Future's review of the Past will reveal the truth, if ever.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (http://hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (J. Keith Henry)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sat Jan 27 17:45:15 2001
First of all... John, *please* change the settings of your AOL. If you need
help in doing so, please email me directly (jkhenry@******.com) I will be
glad to assist.

second....
-=-=-=-
In a message dated 01/27/2001 5:05:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bull@***********.com writes:

I get the feeling that Wizkids is hoping to get some solid licenses to back
up Mage Knight when it's sales fall off. And since Mort managed to
mismanage his company into the ground, his kid was able to pick them up for
cheap.
-=-=-=-
From: DemonPenta@***.com
Subject: Re: Minis sunk FASA?

How badly *was* FASA mismanaged? And, when did it start?
-=-=-=-
That would probably depend upon your viewpoint. I have long since believed
FASA's upper management handled things incorrectly (and I know I'm not alone
in that feeling). But what would have been done wrong is more a question of
how people would do it and potentially the direction the management was
trying to go with something. I agree with many that the direction seemed...
well, it seemed flawed to say it nicely (we all know the loads of more
interesting terms that could be used).

I think I liked the lines that were being produced, but really think that
the potential for those product lines was not considered as whole-heartedly
as it needed to be with regards to the timing of the situation and how the
wider marketplaces were viewing things.

Its a very large picture, and it would be hard to put all of it into
perspective in any on-line forum merely IMO because of the huge array of
personal opinions and "sniper attacks" that roam the net. And, again IMO,
as "gamers", we're a breed of people that seem to normally enjoy
"adversarialism". We have opinions, and often are strong ones and often
feel very compelled to voice them even if were we to step back and view the
opinions, we'd be able to shoot down our own easily enough and realize how
crazed many of us really do seem most of the time (yes, I'm a voice of
experience on this one... ;-) to someone not familiar with our grouping.

But as for the statement that Bull made... hmm... nice one there. Shooting
in the dark a lot lately there Bullski??? Mort is Mort... and even though
my personal opinion of the man wasn't the best (especially after my direct
conversations with him in the past)... at least he seems to be trying to
make sure that FASA goes out with a style befitting something closer to real
professionalism and courtesy than the crap other companies have pulled in
recent years. In my book that decision took balls.... big ones.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (http://hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sun Jan 28 01:30:02 2001
From: Frank Pelletier <fpelletier@******.usherb.ca>
<Snip SR license>
> Although. I heard that the Shadowrun PC license is not as dead as it seems.
> Can't remember where, or when, though.

Microsoft IIRC.

Lars
--
Santa is very jolly because he knows where all the bad girls live.
--
Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sun Jan 28 06:35:04 2001
According to Augustus, on Sat, 27 Jan 2001 the word on the street was...

> Either way... there'll always be plenty of online/fan support for
> shadowrun... I don't see anything that'll stop that from happening.

Don't count on that "always" too much. Assuming no new books will be
published from this moment on, there will be plenty of support in the short
run, and in the long run the die-hard SR players will continue to do stuff
for the game on-line, but the more casual or average players will wander
off to other games that are being supported by a game company.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sun Jan 28 06:35:37 2001
According to DemonPenta@***.com, on Sat, 27 Jan 2001 the word on the street was...

> As per that...any statements from MKR as per copyright issues? TSR-like, or
> can we expect little change from how FASA did it?

Although this is pure speculation, of course, I don't think there would be
much difference. First of all, everyone with a fraction of a brain in the
game industry learned from the T$R-debacle, and second, even if WizKids
wanted to go that route, it would be very difficult for them to get every
SR site (web or otherwise) of note to shut down these days simply because
there are so many. Not that I'm saying it can't be done, just that it'll
almost certainly be more trouble than it's worth.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (J. Keith Henry)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Sun Jan 28 11:15:06 2001
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Minis sunk FASA?


> Although this is pure speculation, of course, I don't think there would be
> much difference. First of all, everyone with a fraction of a brain in the
> game industry learned from the T$R-debacle, and second, even if WizKids
> wanted to go that route, it would be very difficult for them to get every
> SR site (web or otherwise) of note to shut down these days simply because
> there are so many. Not that I'm saying it can't be done, just that it'll
> almost certainly be more trouble than it's worth.

Actually, it *could* be done relatively easily given the topic of the
material would be categorized under one term most of the time (Shadowrun)
itself. Sure, there'd be a few sites that would slip through the cracks...
but all the big ones could be tagged and tagged fast.

BUT, I don't think they'd do it for an entirely different reason. I think
that Wizkids and the Shadowrun developers are well aware of the potential
benefit from having a strong on-line SR community. Granted, they also know
the other side of that double-edged blade as well, but I'm sure they would
want things to be as beneficial to their fanbase as well.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (http://hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Mon Jan 29 09:50:01 2001
[...]
> IMO, Its the closest thing to a computer game there is, without the
> computer. I won't even go into but the ethics of requiring people who
want
> a full set of rare minatures to buy tons of randomly assorted packages
(hey,
> it makes the company that much more money), but I will point out that the
> only Mage Knight tournament I've ever heard of was won by an all-rare army
> that required almost nil strategy to use, by virtue of superior stats.
>
> -Sebastian

That's OK, the local collectable card store is already selling single MK
figures.
--Anders
Message no. 30
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mike and Jill Johnson)
Subject: Minis sunk FASA?
Date: Tue Jan 30 01:50:01 2001
At 12:01 PM 1/27/01 -0500, you wrote:

>Although. I heard that the Shadowrun PC license is not as dead as it seems.
>Can't remember where, or when, though.


The inside information I've gotten from my sources at Microsoft is that the
Shadowrun game is going to be for the X-box.

Further Reading

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