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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Andrew <wadycki@***.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:42:42 -0600
Just as a note. You can turn foci off. When you go to sleep or don't
need them turn them off. It takes a simple action to turn them on, but
it removes a threat. As for spirits, just send in an elemental and have
it manifest. A fire elemental can have an apartment in flames pretty
quick, even quicker if it is a greater one. Or there are nature spirits,
then don't have the easy of powers to advoid. All the astral static and
shit, if an elemental goes in screwing your home, and a mage (with wired,
SG II, etc. all beta) decides to take a few shots at you, with his
sniping rifle, well, life could get shorter very quickly. A thing to
remember, if you can do it, so can they. The only real edge are your
ideas, stats can be copied.

-Andrew
Message no. 2
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:49:43 +0100
> Just as a note. You can turn foci off. When you go to sleep or don't
> need them turn them off. It takes a simple action to turn them on, but
> it removes a threat. As for spirits, just send in an elemental and have

Ah but quickenings canot, and Mr Reaver mentioned that he has a few :)
And as a sidenote on this whole foci/quickenings/nth-initiation grades
discussion, where did you get the karma to do all that dude. This Must have
cost ya at least 200 karma (more like 300 - if you did it legit)?????

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 3
From: MR DELIVAN S HARDERS <YUBM21A@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:35:04 EST
Jani Fikoras wrote asking;

>As a sidenote to this wholefoci/quickenings/nth intitiation grades
>discusssion, where did you get the karma to do all that dude? This must
>have cost you at least 200 karma (more like 300 - if you did it legit)?

I think the cost is more like 350, but when you've got a character
you've been playing since before second edition and had died once already
(thanx to a street sams lack of thinking) you tend to have built up over
800 total karma points. On the refrence of being claimed to practice
munchkinism, if they were printed in a book, then why not use them.
There's not a single rule that I've broken and I always do everything by
the book. Cheating is definitly out in my games, especially against my
players. List.member.grumpy can judge on that one.

-Reaver
Message no. 4
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:24:58 +0100
> I think the cost is more like 350, but when you've got a character
> you've been playing since before second edition and had died once already
> (thanx to a street sams lack of thinking) you tend to have built up over
> 800 total karma points. On the refrence of being claimed to practice
> munchkinism, if they were printed in a book, then why not use them.
> There's not a single rule that I've broken and I always do everything by
> the book. Cheating is definitly out in my games, especially against my
> players. List.member.grumpy can judge on that one.

No you are definitely no munchkin, you are a MEGA power gamer :), not that
I think that there is anything wrong about it. Anyway I'd like to add this
sidenote - when Peregrin (my favourite char - read all about him in Edge
Runners :) reached 100 karma I fellt totally invincible, and I was invincible
as far as the real world is concerned - now (this is IMHO) I think that
playing in campaigns were you go against Great Dragons and every second
run is an astral quest in the land of the gods :) is no what Tom Dowd and
the other had in mind when they wrote Shadowrun.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 23:22:33 +0930
Once upon a time, John Fikouras wrote:
>
{ Reaver is writing the bit with > > at the front. }

> > I think the cost is more like 350, but when you've got a character
> > you've been playing since before second edition and had died once already
> > (thanx to a street sams lack of thinking) you tend to have built up over
> > 800 total karma points. On the refrence of being claimed to practice
> > munchkinism, if they were printed in a book, then why not use them.
> > There's not a single rule that I've broken and I always do everything by
> > the book. Cheating is definitly out in my games, especially against my
> > players. List.member.grumpy can judge on that one.
>
Reaver, that's part of the definition of munchkin: munchkins NEVER, EVER,
break the rules.

> No you are definitely no munchkin, you are a MEGA power gamer :), not that
> I think that there is anything wrong about it. Anyway I'd like to add this
> sidenote - when Peregrin (my favourite char - read all about him in Edge
> Runners :) reached 100 karma I fellt totally invincible, and I was invincible
> as far as the real world is concerned - now (this is IMHO) I think that
> playing in campaigns were you go against Great Dragons and every second
> run is an astral quest in the land of the gods :) is no what Tom Dowd and
> the other had in mind when they wrote Shadowrun.
>
It's about the same here. The street sams really start losing their edge to
age and tech obsolescence (100-200 karma really should take about 5 years
game time), the deckers are losing the edge in the SOTA, and need a
refresher course, and the mages are turning towards more esoteric magics
or are also losing their edge to age. You can only stay on the cutting edge
for so long.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 6
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 14:58:59 +0100
> Reaver, that's part of the definition of munchkin: munchkins NEVER, EVER,
> break the rules.

No thats wrong, munchkins are the first who would break the rules to
get what they want, Power Gamers on the other hand tend to stay within
the rules and try to exploit loop holes. I think that it is a bit unfair
to equate power gamers with munchkins.
--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 7
From: MR DELIVAN S HARDERS <YUBM21A@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 16:06:00 EST
John Fikoras wrote;

>Munchkins are the first who would break rules to get what they want.
>Power Gamers on the other hand tend to stay within the rules and try to
>exploit loop holes.

In response, I would like to point out that I don't use loop holes
either. I always look up info in the rule book before I do anything that
could be considered cheating (or using loop holes for that matter). While
I've got you here, I would like to say that in SRII (pg. 139) it states
that grounding is through foci, specifically. I have yet to find anything
in the Grimoire that states that quickenings or anchorings can be grounded
sites. Thier descriptions state that they can de dispelled or destroyed,
period. Hope that helps, sort of.

-Reaver
Message no. 8
From: Sean Sheridan <sean@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 00:40:09 -0600
read page 50 of the Grimoire, under Anchored Spells and Astral Space.
It says that links have a bridge to the physical world. I think that that
implies that they can have a physical combat spell grounded through them.
I think it's a little fuzzy, but it makes more sense than the ruleing
on quickened spells thats seems to have been passed down from DLOH.
D
Sean
Message no. 9
From: MR DELIVAN S HARDERS <YUBM21A@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 02:51:42 EST
In reply to the question of grounding through quickenings or anchorings,
if the spell is destroyed then there is no longer anything to ground on,
except maybe in the case of anchorings. If a quickening is blasted,
there's nothing left, the spell goes phfft!. If this is allowed, then I
can quicken a spell on a target and have my astral security blast that
target to hell, so what if I spend a karma point. I think this is a rule
that has to be seriously evaluated otherwise quickening can become a very
offensive tool. Also, this means I should be able to ground through a
sustained spell is that's true. As for the statement someone made about
grounding and quickenings being discussed in the Neo-Anarchists Guide to
Magic, I looked all through it and I can't find anything on it, could you
quote a page number?
-Reaver
Message no. 10
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 18:00:55 +0930
Once upon a time, MR DELIVAN S HARDERS wrote:
>
> In reply to the question of grounding through quickenings or anchorings,
> if the spell is destroyed then there is no longer anything to ground on,
> except maybe in the case of anchorings. If a quickening is blasted,
> there's nothing left, the spell goes phfft!.

It's part of the grounding rules... in order to ground a spell through a
link (be it quickening or foci or whatever), you have to destroy the link
to do it. Why? Game balance. Stops those nasty astral mages from pumping
fireball after fireball into your rapidly cremating corpse.

> If this is allowed, then I
> can quicken a spell on a target and have my astral security blast that
> target to hell, so what if I spend a karma point.

Yep. 'Course, if you can quicken a spell on a target, you could blast it
yourself.

As for the Karma point stuff, look in the books and see the cost of Karma.
It's expensive to get NPCs to spend it. (Of course, if you want to waste a
Karma point yourself, go ahead).

> I think this is a rule
> that has to be seriously evaluated otherwise quickening can become a very
> offensive tool. Also, this means I should be able to ground through a
> sustained spell is that's true. As for the statement someone made about
> grounding and quickenings being discussed in the Neo-Anarchists Guide to
> Magic, I looked all through it and I can't find anything on it, could you
> quote a page number?

You've got a copy? Lucky you...


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 11
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 13:03:14 +0100
> In response, I would like to point out that I don't use loop holes
> either. I always look up info in the rule book before I do anything that
> could be considered cheating (or using loop holes for that matter). While

Well I dont thing that using loopholes is bad, the only thing it means
is that the rules suck and they need fixing and well donr to the dude
who found out. As for for exploiting the loophole, well he should get some
reward for his perceptiveness :)

> I've got you here, I would like to say that in SRII (pg. 139) it states
> that grounding is through foci, specifically. I have yet to find anything
> in the Grimoire that states that quickenings or anchorings can be grounded
> sites. Thier descriptions state that they can de dispelled or destroyed,
> period. Hope that helps, sort of.

Well I think that this is redundant after the explanation presented by
the esteemed Dr.Doom, but I'd like to say this - for me its more a matter
of principle and all-around mechanics than a matter of petty rules-lawyring
(no offence intended). If a mage can ground a spell through spell locks/
foci/dual creatures then why would it be impossible to ground spells
through quickenings/anchorings/sustained spells ?

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 12
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 13:31:22 +0100
> there's nothing left, the spell goes phfft!. If this is allowed, then I
> can quicken a spell on a target and have my astral security blast that
> target to hell, so what if I spend a karma point. I think this is a rule
> that has to be seriously evaluated otherwise quickening can become a very
> offensive tool. Also, this means I should be able to ground through a
> sustained spell is that's true. As for the statement someone made about

This is true and I have used it a couple of times as a player, but you
dont have to go that far. Ehy spend even that 1 karma point whaen you can
tell a force 1 elemental to physically manifest and stand beside your target.
The elemental says hi to him and you blast it with an area of effect spell.
This naturally goes only for mages as shamans would have a hard time in
persuading a spirit to commit suicide :)
As for the sustained spell, this is very true. And I also find it very
fair - its the only way to stop the "I'm-a-mage-so-I-can-physically-mask-
all-of-the-group" phenomenon.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 13
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*******.CSE.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About Shadowtech
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:36:03 -0500
On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, MR DELIVAN S HARDERS wrote:

> offensive tool. Also, this means I should be able to ground through a
> sustained spell is that's true. As for the statement someone made about

You can.

> grounding and quickenings being discussed in the Neo-Anarchists Guide to
> Magic, I looked all through it and I can't find anything on it, could you
> quote a page number?

No I can't because it's not out yet, AFAIK.

--Craig

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