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Message no. 1
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:29:30 -0600
At 02:48 PM 3/11/97 -0800, 'Spaceman' WD Lee wrote:
> Weezer has a song in which the singer talks about how he feels
>safe in his garage doing the things he likes to do. Among the stuff in
>there is a twelve-sided die and a Dungeon Master's Guide. So I guess
>they're not out of munchy stage yet ;P

I only mention it because this is a pet peeve of mine, but you all do
realize that calling AD&D munchkinous is a lot like the pot calling the
kettle black, right? Sr, while a great game, doesn't have a great system.
It's easy to pimp the rules and work things your way, without going outside
the limitations of the game and the rules in the books. AD&D is the same
way. It's how you _run_ the game that makes it great, not what the rules
in the book say or how you _think_ people play it.

There sure is a lot of hypocricy on this list torwards certain "other" games.


Mike Broadwater

"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them much myself.
They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Message no. 2
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:49:17 -0500
Mike Broadwater said:
>There sure is a lot of hypocricy on this list torwards certain "other"
games.

Unfortunately, yes. I'm sure a number of gamers out there
started off playing AD&D and the like , before they 'graduated' to
better games. I don't play AD&D because the genre no longer appeals to
me; but it does still to others.
Like Mike said, it's all in how the game is run. [Unless it's one
of those W..... W... games, run by a bunch of ELITIST, FAWNING,
ANGST-RIDDEN, VAMPIRE WANNABEE...$&$#&^%&%#&%&^&&...ECCH,
ARRGH <loud
thump as body hits floor>
Message no. 3
From: Mark McLaughlin <mmclaugh@*******.EENG.DCU.IE>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:52:10 -0800
Michael Broadwater wrote:
>
Sr, while a great game, doesn't have a great system.
> It's easy to pimp the rules and work things your way, without going outside
> the limitations of the game and the rules in the books. AD&D is the same
> way.

AD&D`s system is worse, it is most at fault in combat where apparently
having decent armour helps you to dodge (as well as soak damage - the
two are mingled, thats the problem). The magic system is brutal, you
cant mage effectively until your about 7th level and even then you are
only just up to scratch. (these are the only two things I could think of
off hand, there ARE many more flaws.) Now admittedly SR isisnt perfect
but then again there isisnt a game that is, however it is very well
balanced and gives realistic results. I have STUDIED yes studied many
RPG systems and I have concluded that SR is one of the most realistic,
the only disadvantage being the amount of dice to be rolled.

Mark (Merlin) McLaughlin
Message no. 4
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:38:06 EST
On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:49:17 -0500 "Fisher, Victor" writes:

> Like Mike said, it's all in how the game is run. [Unless it's one
of those W..... W... games,
> run by a bunch of ELITIST, FAWNING, ANGST-RIDDEN, VAMPIRE
> WANNABEE...$&$#&^%&%#&%&^&&...ECCH, ARRGH

> <loud thump as body hits floor>

<Mage drops Forces/Life effect>

"I am NOT a Vampire 'Wannabee'..."

<turns, and vanishes from room>
Message no. 5
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:38:06 EST
On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:29:30 -0600 Michael Broadwater writes:

>I only mention it because this is a pet peeve of mine, but you all do
>realize that calling AD&D munchkinous is a lot like the pot calling the
>kettle black, right?

> Sr, while a great game, doesn't have a great system.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!
Eh?? What??... HERETIC!!!

<Yelling off into background>

"You call the Gaming Police, I'll organize the pitch-forks and torches,
we'll meet at the town square..."


~Tim (who happens to like AD&D, just not as much as other things)
Message no. 6
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:50:35 -0500
>Tim Cooper Says:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!
>Eh?? What??... HERETIC!!!
>
><Yelling off into background>
>
>"You call the Gaming Police, I'll organize the pitch-forks and torches,
>we'll meet at the town square..."
>
>
>~Tim (who happens to like AD&D, just not as much as other things)

He's a witch! BURN HIM!!!
Message no. 7
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 12:59:33 -0600
At 11:49 AM 3/18/97 -0500, Fisher, Victor wrote:
>Mike Broadwater said:
>>There sure is a lot of hypocricy on this list torwards certain "other"
games.
>
>Unfortunately, yes. I'm sure a number of gamers out there
>started off playing AD&D and the like , before they 'graduated' to
>better games. I don't play AD&D because the genre no longer appeals to
>me; but it does still to others.
> Like Mike said, it's all in how the game is run. [Unless it's one
>of those W..... W... games, run by a bunch of ELITIST, FAWNING,
>ANGST-RIDDEN, VAMPIRE WANNABEE...$&$#&^%&%#&%&^&&...ECCH,
ARRGH <loud
>thump as body hits floor>
>
This is what I mean.

Mike Broadwater
White Wolf Demo Team, Midwest
Message no. 8
From: Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:56:46 -0700
> > Sr, while a great game, doesn't have a great system.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!
> Eh?? What??... HERETIC!!!
>
> <Yelling off into background>
>
> "You call the Gaming Police, I'll organize the pitch-forks and torches,
> we'll meet at the town square..."
>
>
> ~Tim (who happens to like AD&D, just not as much as other things)

I agree with you Tim...I enjoy playing Birthright, just not as much as Sr.

Caric

p.s. Hand me a torch will ya
Message no. 9
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:09:22 -0500
Michael Broadwater said:

>
>At 11:49 AM 3/18/97 -0500, Fisher, Victor wrote:
>>Mike Broadwater said:
>>>There sure is a lot of hypocricy on this list torwards certain
"other"
>>>games.
>[Unless it's one of those W..... W... games, run by a bunch of ELITIST,
>FAWNING,ANGST-RIDDEN, VAMPIRE
WANNABEE...$&$#&^%&%#&%&^&&...ECCH, ARRGH <loud
>>thump as body hits floor>
>>
>This is what I mean.
>
>Mike Broadwater
>White Wolf Demo Team, Midwest

Oh. lighten up. It's a joke :-]. And if you don't see it as such, you're
just proving my point.
Message no. 10
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:34:22 -0600
At 02:09 PM 3/18/97 -0500, Fisher, Victor wrote:
>>This is what I mean.
>>
>>Mike Broadwater
>>White Wolf Demo Team, Midwest
>
>Oh. lighten up. It's a joke :-]. And if you don't see it as such, you're
>just proving my point.
>
I know it's a joke. But it's still exactly what I mean. "Lets ridicule
others for not playing the same game as we do."


Mike Broadwater

"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them much myself.
They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Message no. 11
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:56:30 -0500
Michael Broadwater said:
>
>>Oh. lighten up. It's a joke :-]. And if you don't see it as such, you're
>>just proving my point.
>>
>I know it's a joke. But it's still exactly what I mean. "Lets ridicule
>others for not playing the same game as we do."
>
>
>Mike Broadwater
>
>"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them much myself.
> They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."

Hey, I play Mage myself [oops, oh s**t, blown my cover!<runs down
street from pursuing mob>]. Have played it since 1st Edition came out.
Loved 2nd Edition. Ran quite a few games myself.
Buuuuut, it has been my experience, of all the weird, excentric
cults of gamers out there, the guys who play White Wolf are the most
elitest of the bunch[no, I'm not condoning it, and I think it's sad.
especially when one of them works in a bookstore, and tells a potential
gamer that all FASA products are immature crap, and pushes him toward
the White Wolf section. This IS a true story.]
The worst example of it I've EVER seen, was at the Arisia Con, held
in Boston this past January. I'd never been before, and a friend dragged
me along. I even looked forward to it. That was a mistake. Almost every
game run that weekend was a WW game. The one gun who actually tried to
run a Shadowrun game, got laughed <politely> at, and jeered.
I read about the pickup game, so went on up to the second floor. I
got there just in time to see a 'vampire' couple staring at the signup
sheet to the door where the guy was running the game, and heard the guy
say "Shadowrun, you've got to be kidding!". His girlfriend laughed, and
they tottered off to find their fellow fangers.
I decided to sign up anyway. I had fun [except for myself, no one
else joined in], it started to piss me off everytime a group of
Masquerade gamers would stick their heads in, ask what was going on,
then look as if you planted their heads in a pile of manure when we told
them. Almost made me throw out my Mage books when I got home. I don't
EVEN want to know how the other guy felt.
So, what I'm saying is, don't brand gaming elitism on just one
group. Alot of different gamers do it, and it still hurts when it's a
game you enjoy.
Message no. 12
From: 'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 12:17:26 -0800
On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Michael Broadwater wrote:
# I only mention it because this is a pet peeve of mine, but you all do
# realize that calling AD&D munchkinous is a lot like the pot calling the
# kettle black, right? Sr, while a great game, doesn't have a great system.
Yes, it's hideously easy to munch the SR system. Check out Edge
Runners. _However_, the point I was making is that AD&D, by virtue of its
fame, tends to attract a helluva lot more, as well as being the game most
of us cut our teeth on before we understood something other than munching


The Spaceman |The universe runs through the complex
spaced@*.washington.edu |interweaving of energy, matter, and
Check out the Bill Page! |enlightened self-interest - G'Kar
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G+ e+ h r z+
MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr
Message no. 13
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:24:15 -0600
At 02:56 PM 3/18/97 -0500, Fisher, Victor wrote:
> So, what I'm saying is, don't brand gaming elitism on just one
>group. Alot of different gamers do it, and it still hurts when it's a
>game you enjoy.
>
I haven't said it's just one group, and I won't. I will also attest that a
lot of the people who play WW games are elitist bastards. I know, I've met
them. But I've heard as many "SR sucks" from a ww'er as I have "WW
sucks"
from an sr'er. And I pointed it out because very often on this list I see
AD&D or WW or Rifts mentioned, and someone complain about how it's this or
that and no good. And then people complain that Sr is bad, and you feel
persecuted, and I'm supposed to feel sorry? The RPG wars are as bad (or
worse cause there's more of them) than OS wars. AT least OS's are
semi-quantifiable.

I said what I did to try and make some people think. Think that perhaps
you're looking at gaming from a narrow perspective when you immediately say
"Bah" to any game you didn't like, and therefore, can't understand how
anyone can like.

Speaking for my own group (and we have our prejudices as well, we just hide
them better) we've played AD&D, Sr, and all the WW games. No, I'm not
trying to say we're perfect, but we are open minded. And we _don't_ tell
people not to play what they enjoy, or call them "munchkins" for doing so.


Mike Broadwater

"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them much myself.
They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Message no. 14
From: Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:23:33 -0700
> On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Michael Broadwater wrote:
> # I only mention it because this is a pet peeve of mine, but you all do
> # realize that calling AD&D munchkinous is a lot like the pot calling the
> # kettle black, right? Sr, while a great game, doesn't have a great
system.
> Yes, it's hideously easy to munch the SR system. Check out Edge
> Runners. _However_, the point I was making is that AD&D, by virtue of its
> fame, tends to attract a helluva lot more, as well as being the game most
> of us cut our teeth on before we understood something other than munching

All games have the possibility of being munched...the difference lies in
the world that is generated. Character developement in AD&D is limited to
combat for the most part. When you pick up a module it outlines what
monsters are going to attack blah blah blah. In Sr when you get a module
you have to deal with personalities and feelings and hopefully the
individual as a person not as just another monster to kill for Experience
points.
I freely admit to playing Birthright (which is an exppansion of AD&D), but
I do so because I enjoy the genre and because the gm I have is very good at
taking the hack and slach out of the game. Sure we fight just like in
shadowrun, but you have to deal with the (meta)(demi)human aspect of day to
day life as well. A rich well developed world is what makes shadowrun
great, not the rules system.

-Caric

"One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
-Albert Einstein
Message no. 15
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:32:20 -0600
At 12:17 PM 3/18/97 -0800, 'Spaceman' WD Lee wrote:
> Yes, it's hideously easy to munch the SR system. Check out Edge
>Runners. _However_, the point I was making is that AD&D, by virtue of its
>fame, tends to attract a helluva lot more, as well as being the game most
>of us cut our teeth on before we understood something other than munching
>
Now, I won't argue with that.


Mike Broadwater

"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them much myself.
They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Message no. 16
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:38:18 -0500
Caric said:

>Sure we fight just like in
>shadowrun, but you have to deal with the (meta)(demi)human aspect of day to
>day life as well. A rich well developed world is what makes shadowrun
>great, not the rules system.

Amen.


Victor
Message no. 17
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:51:15 -0500
>Michael Broadwater said:
>
>
>Speaking for my own group (and we have our prejudices as well, we just hide
>them better) we've played AD&D, Sr, and all the WW games. No, I'm not
>trying to say we're perfect, but we are open minded. And we _don't_ tell
>people not to play what they enjoy, or call them "munchkins" for doing so.

Hey, the guys I game with try to do the same. That's why I try to
maintain a sense of humor about the whole thing [it's either that, or go
Postal ;-}] One question [maybe a dumb one for those in the know], how
the hell did the term 'munchie' come about?!?!?!?

Kohl ,the Ork Physad Gunslinger, trying to comprehend his English
>Grammer courses.
Message no. 18
From: Grendel <grendel@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:49:04 -0500
> I read about the pickup game, so went on up to the second floor. I
>got there just in time to see a 'vampire' couple staring at the signup
>sheet to the door where the guy was running the game, and heard the guy
>say "Shadowrun, you've got to be kidding!". His girlfriend laughed, and
>they tottered off to find their fellow fangers.
> I decided to sign up anyway. I had fun [except for myself, no one
>else joined in], it started to piss me off everytime a group of
>Masquerade gamers would stick their heads in, ask what was going on,
>then look as if you planted their heads in a pile of manure when we told
>them. Almost made me throw out my Mage books when I got home. I don't
>EVEN want to know how the other guy felt.
> So, what I'm saying is, don't brand gaming elitism on just one
>group. Alot of different gamers do it, and it still hurts when it's a
>game you enjoy.

I can't agree more. White Wolf fans are quite distasteful about other
systems cause it's not White Wolf. I've read 3 of them, and one thing they
should know, the basics of Sr are the basics of White Wolf game (ie throwing
a number of dices equal to your skills against a target number). So these
people should'nt laugh at what is the basics of their favorite game. Put
this in their face next time, and if they don't still understand it's still
fun even if it's different, well, thrash them.

Grendel
Message no. 19
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:59:51 -0500
At 11:49 AM 3/18/97 -0500, Fisher, Victor wrote these timeless words:
>Mike Broadwater said:
>>There sure is a lot of hypocricy on this list torwards certain "other"
games.
>
>Unfortunately, yes. I'm sure a number of gamers out there
>started off playing AD&D and the like , before they 'graduated' to
>better games. I don't play AD&D because the genre no longer appeals to
>me; but it does still to others.
> Like Mike said, it's all in how the game is run. [Unless it's one
>of those W..... W... games, run by a bunch of ELITIST, FAWNING,
>ANGST-RIDDEN, VAMPIRE WANNABEE...$&$#&^%&%#&%&^&&...ECCH,
ARRGH <loud
>thump as body hits floor>
>
<Bull tries to find something wittier and more appropriate than an "AOL Me
Too", but is ROTFLHAO, and can't think...>

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max
Message no. 20
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:00:21 -0500
At 01:50 PM 3/18/97 -0500, Fisher, Victor wrote these timeless words:

>He's a witch! BURN HIM!!!
>
He can't be a witch... He ways much more than a duck...:]

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max
Message no. 21
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:11:17 EST
On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:00:21 -0500 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
>At 01:50 PM 3/18/97 -0500, Fisher, Victor wrote these timeless words:
>
>>He's a witch! BURN HIM!!!
>>
>He can't be a witch... He ways much more than a duck...:]
>
-------
Ahhh, you are gifted in the ways of science, that must mean he's not made
of wood :-)
What is your name?


Now using Gweedo the Killer Pimp ver. 3.1 sporting such features as:
A poleyester leisure suit, platform shoes, a pink cadillac, fuzzy dice,
and a gold tooth!
Message no. 22
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:29:16 EST
<snip>
The worst example of it I've EVER seen, was at the Arisia Con,
>held
>in Boston this past January. I'd never been before, and a friend
>dragged
>me along. I even looked forward to it. That was a mistake. Almost
>every
>game run that weekend was a WW game. The one gun who actually tried to
>run a Shadowrun game, got laughed <politely> at, and jeered.
> I read about the pickup game, so went on up to the second floor.
<snip the rest of that story>
------
o.k. I try to expand some of the horizons of our gaming group with some
of the games I pick up. It saddens me to hear one gamer or another argue
incessantly about wich game is better. This story horrifies me, to think
that I actually have played most of the WW games except wraith and
changeling. I love playing a Vampire, I love playing a Razorboy, I love
playing a Garou, I love playing a western gunfighter (Deadlands for those
who care) but most of all, I just like Roleplaying. Most people say
Vampire? Cool, let's start a game. Some say, Vampire? Fascist elitist
commie, etc, etc. people are entitled to their own opinions, but I don't
think they have a right to force their opinion on somebody else. That's
just not right. Oh well, I've rambled on long enough, I'll get back to
my left brain now.


Now using Gweedo the Killer Pimp ver. 3.1 sporting such features as:
A poleyester leisure suit, platform shoes, a pink cadillac, fuzzy dice,
and a gold tooth!
Message no. 23
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:40:58 +1100
> There sure is a lot of hypocricy on this list torwards certain "other"
games.

Hear hear!

<realises what she has done... agreed with Mr Broadwater... *faint*>

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 24
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:50:06 -0500
You wanna see a game that is almost IMPOSSIBLE to rules pimp?
Check out the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game.
Everyone I ever played with has a hard time staying alive, much less
becoming a real "power" character.
has a very realistic IMO to hit system and armor is fairly well done as
well.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Hoo-Hah! Thrown to the weasels again!"
Message no. 25
From: Mike Buckalew <mike_buckalew@******.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:03:24 -0000
>You wanna see a game that is almost IMPOSSIBLE to rules pimp?
>Check out the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game.
>Everyone I ever played with has a hard time staying alive, much less
>becoming a real "power" character.
>has a very realistic IMO to hit system and armor is fairly well done as
>well.

I'll agree, but the character advancement system is really limiting.
It's pretty easy to max out unless you like constant career changes.

I will say that The Enemy Within Campaign is the best epic fantasy
campaign I have ever participated in. Great flavor and a lot of fun.
It's also interesting to note that there are several themes there that
Carl Sargeant also used in some of his Shadowrun stuff - the drunken
doctor being the most obvious.


Buck (Mike Buckalew)
Test Manager, FileMaker Pro
Email: buck@******.com

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!V PS+(+++) PE++ Y+ PGP- t+ 5+ !X R++ tv+>(+++) b++ DI+++
D---- G e++ h--- r+++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 26
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:04:56 EST
On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:50:06 -0500 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>You wanna see a game that is almost IMPOSSIBLE to rules pimp?
>Check out the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game.
>Everyone I ever played with has a hard time staying alive, much less
>becoming a real "power" character.
>has a very realistic IMO to hit system and armor is fairly well done
>as
>well.
>
-------
Warhammer, Yowza! I never thought that, that game would turn up here. I
played a pit fighter in that game, and I got my nasty lookin' butt
slapped around by Minitaur. I like 40K, and other table top games,
better than the warhammer fantasy games. I wanna hear what other people
think about table top battling.


Now using Gweedo the Killer Pimp ver. 3.1 sporting such features as:
A poleyester leisure suit, platform shoes, a pink cadillac, fuzzy dice,
and a gold tooth!
Message no. 27
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:11:21 +0100
Fisher, Victor said on 11:49/18 Mar 97...

> Like Mike said, it's all in how the game is run. [Unless it's one
> of those W..... W... games, run by a bunch of ELITIST, FAWNING,
> ANGST-RIDDEN, VAMPIRE WANNABEE...$&$#&^%&%#&%&^&&...ECCH,
ARRGH <loud
> thump as body hits floor>

To me it seems that that's the real reason why many people don't like WW
games -- because the only times they've seen them get played is by people
who have that attitude. I like the ideas behind Vampire and Mage, and the
games themselves too (I haven't played any of the other Storyteller (I
don't like that name, BTW) games, so I can't say anything about them) but
I don't take it too seriously, unlike a lot of those players seem to...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I like having low self esteem. Makes me feel special.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 28
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:43:28 +0000
|
|You wanna see a game that is almost IMPOSSIBLE to rules pimp?
|Check out the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game.
|Everyone I ever played with has a hard time staying alive, much less
|becoming a real "power" character.
|has a very realistic IMO to hit system and armor is fairly well done as
|well.

Darn.... This appeard MIME encoded....
Looks like the MIME filter on listserv ISN'T 100% perfect after all...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 29
From: Dvixen <Dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 12:50:09 -0800
Spike wrote:
>
> |
> |You wanna see a game that is almost IMPOSSIBLE to rules pimp?
> |Check out the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game.
> |Everyone I ever played with has a hard time staying alive, much less
> |becoming a real "power" character.
> |has a very realistic IMO to hit system and armor is fairly well done as
> |well.
>
> Darn.... This appeard MIME encoded....
> Looks like the MIME filter on listserv ISN'T 100% perfect after all...

*sigh* Sorry Spike. I tried. :(

--

Dvixen dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
I have no sense of decency. That way, all my other senses are enhanced
Message no. 30
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:55:36 -0800
On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Grendel wrote:

> I can't agree more. White Wolf fans are quite distasteful about other
> systems cause it's not White Wolf. I've read 3 of them, and one thing they
> should know, the basics of Sr are the basics of White Wolf game (ie throwing
> a number of dices equal to your skills against a target number). So these
> people should'nt laugh at what is the basics of their favorite game. Put
> this in their face next time, and if they don't still understand it's still
> fun even if it's different, well, thrash them.
>

Yeah, but just cause you use a similar dice system doesn't make them the
same. Infact the dice-system is the LEAST important aspect of a game. If
I wanted to I could play ANY game with just about ANY system, it's just
the interface.

~Tim
Message no. 31
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:12:57 -0800
On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Gweedo The Killer Pimp wrote:

> Warhammer, Yowza! I never thought that, that game would turn up here. I
> played a pit fighter in that game, and I got my nasty lookin' butt
> slapped around by Minitaur. I like 40K, and other table top games,
> better than the warhammer fantasy games. I wanna hear what other people
> think about table top battling.

EXPENSIVE!!

~Tim (Who Loves WH40k, but just doesn't have the money or time to devote
to painting all the cool figs... and still has some from !!Junior High!!
that are STILL unpainted!)
Message no. 32
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:24:09 -0500
At 10:43 AM 3/19/97 +0000, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|You wanna see a game that is almost IMPOSSIBLE to rules pimp?
>|Check out the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game.
>|Everyone I ever played with has a hard time staying alive, much less
>|becoming a real "power" character.
>|has a very realistic IMO to hit system and armor is fairly well done as
>|well.
>
>Darn.... This appeard MIME encoded....
>Looks like the MIME filter on listserv ISN'T 100% perfect after all...
>
And of course, Tinner is using IE for his mailer...

And no, I don't mean Immortal Elves...:]

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max
Message no. 33
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:36:39 -0500
At 02:12 PM 3/19/97 -0800, Tim Cooper wrote these timeless words:
I wanna hear what other people
>> think about table top battling.
>
>EXPENSIVE!!
>
Tell me about it...

But it helps if you collect over a few years... Doesn't seem as bad that
way...:]

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max
Message no. 34
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:15:23 -0600
>>I wanna hear what other people
> > think about table top battling.
>
> EXPENSIVE!!

Well, I play battletech, and I bought maps,
but I build my mechs out of modeling clay,
they look crude, but it's more fun to do
battle damage on them...

Gossamer
Message no. 35
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 23:20:14 +0000
|> Darn.... This appeard MIME encoded....
|> Looks like the MIME filter on listserv ISN'T 100% perfect after all...
|
|*sigh* Sorry Spike. I tried. :(

I suppose it filters SOME MIME.....
Ho-hum...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 36
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: munchkiny (was Bush Video)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:51:10 +0100
Tim Cooper said on 13:55/19 Mar 97...

> Yeah, but just cause you use a similar dice system doesn't make them the
> same. Infact the dice-system is the LEAST important aspect of a game. If
> I wanted to I could play ANY game with just about ANY system, it's just
> the interface.

Yes, you can, but it's possible to use the rules system to help set the
mood of the game. White Wolf's games use a very simple rules system,
because that emphasises that the focus of the game is ROLEplaying, not
ROLLplaying. For example, you could tack Phoenix Command onto Vampire and
use that as the combat system for your "Storytelling" games, but players
will get the idea that they're supposed to kill lots of things, because
of the detailed way in which combat is now handled.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's a disguise, ma'am. We're actually much older.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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