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Message no. 1
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:23:18 -0700
| > Oh no I understood that...of course it is rude...I wouldn't put it
anywhere
| > near the act of rape as it is completely non-violent,
| Define violence as you will, but I generally define it as someone doing
what
| they want to with my body without my permission. This counts... It's
not
| putting someone to sleep to avoid killing them, it's an invasion of
privacy and
| humiliating.

So are control thoughts, emotions, and pretty much any other mind control
spell. I would certainly rather have an orgasm then have someone traipsing
through my mind ala Mind Probe.

| but of all the spells
| > you could cast on someone it's hardly the worst. Would you rather have
an
| > orgasm and get tired or burn to death as your head explodes?
|
| That really isn't the point. 'Would you rather be raped or murdered?'
isn't a
| fair choice, neither is something you should do to someone, eh? Some
people
| view sex pretty seriously, and this would be an extreme violation, doing
it to
| someone against their will (as opposed to voluntarily, which is an
original and
| interesting idea :) is the equivalent of taking control of their most
personal
| thoughts and desires. Not nice.

Actuall "would you rather be raped or mudered?" Has been answered by
several people I know with the later quite seriously. It's not making
anyone have sex with someone else as a controlling manipulation would, and
it in know way takes control of any thoughts or desires...I can't see it
being all that different from making someone wet their pants. It's a
bodily function and one that happens to feel good.

| To those who think I'm taking this too seriously, well, *shrug*

I really think that you are, this is SR that we are talking about and there
are going to be millions of things runners are going to do that will me not
so nice. An orgasm isn't even on the same scale as most of things i've
seen runners do...but to each his own I suppose.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
Message no. 2
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:09:17 -0700
<snip>
| True, but for a game theme, it can be performed, just with caution for
those
| in mind...unless you intended what I did, go for the shock value of some
| players whom have become to smug in their own actions and abuses...

Agreed...it's a good way to set someone off kilter.

| > To those who think I'm taking this too seriously, well, *shrug*

| Halo, sorry I said. I wasn't trying to start a war here. And yes, you
are
| right, sexual "non-aggressive" violence does exist. In SR's "world"
it
would
| definitely exist. Adam (admin), I guess you are right, this does fall
under
| the category of "adult-theme" content. I will try and be more
responsible in
| the future postings of such.

K, I wouldn't worry about it too much, I don't think that Losthalo was
offended, at least I didn't get that impression, I would hope that he knows
that a spell such as Orgasm is there to enrich our game world in a fun way.
If he doesn't agree with it that certainly his option and he should go
with it. I personally think it's a hoot that's why I design it, but if
noone else in the universe ever uses it then so be it, no skin off my nose.
As far as the adult content I think that we are all mature enough to
handle it (even 'lil baby Fro :) , but I think this thread is pretty much
dead anyway so it's probab;y a moot point.

-Caric

"Why is there no blue food!!!!"
-George Carlin
Message no. 3
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:57:07 -0500
You wrote:
> So are control thoughts, emotions, and pretty much any other mind control
> spell. I would certainly rather have an orgasm then have someone traipsing
> through my mind ala Mind Probe.
Did you hear me compare it to those others? No. I'm talking about the use of
that spell. Sure Control Thoughts, et al. are not exactly ethical (neither is
putting lead through people at sonic velocities). I just think that
deliberately humiliating someone in a way that many people feel is worse than
physical violence, shouldn't be a joke. Talking about how 'would you rather
get hurt or have an orgasm?' assumes that having an orgasm is something
everyone would prefer... you're projecting your preferences.

> | > orgasm and get tired or burn to death as your head explodes?
> |
> | That really isn't the point. 'Would you rather be raped or murdered?'
> isn't a
> | fair choice, neither is something you should do to someone, eh? Some
> people
> | view sex pretty seriously, and this would be an extreme violation, doing
> it to
> | someone against their will (as opposed to voluntarily, which is an
> original and
> | interesting idea :) is the equivalent of taking control of their most
> personal
> | thoughts and desires. Not nice.

> Actuall "would you rather be raped or mudered?" Has been answered by
> several people I know with the later quite seriously. It's not making
> anyone have sex with someone else as a controlling manipulation would, and
> it in know way takes control of any thoughts or desires...I can't see it
> being all that different from making someone wet their pants. It's a
> bodily function and one that happens to feel good.
Umm... orgasm is primarily a mental activity, contrary to popular belief. It
is not a physiological response, despite perceptions to the contrary. And just
because no physical penetration occurs doesn't make it not rape, in this
instance...
The idea of being forced ot experience and orgasm by a copmplete stranger
doesn't bother you? You can't see why it would really freak someone out?

losthalo
Message no. 4
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:59:54 -0500
You wrote:
> K, I wouldn't worry about it too much, I don't think that losthalo was
> offended, at least I didn't get that impression, I would hope that he knows
> that a spell such as Orgasm is there to enrich our game world in a fun way.
> If he doesn't agree with it that certainly his option and he should go
> with it. I personally think it's a hoot that's why I design it, but if
> noone else in the universe ever uses it then so be it, no skin off my nose.
> As far as the adult content I think that we are all mature enough to
> handle it (even 'lil baby Fro :) , but I think this thread is pretty much
> dead anyway so it's probab;y a moot point.
Personally I think anyone who uses the spell carelessly should someday look up
to find a shotgun in their face... "Pretty funny, eh?" ;) ...boom...
It's the sort of revenge one of my characters would have done. Give them a
little return on their investment of time and effort, you know? Then again, I
once had a PC blow away another PC in Call of Cthulhu just because he'd decided
he wanted to become a cultist of Nyarlathotep, not because his SAN was that
low, but because he wanted personal power. :) Man, that was a fun group to
game with.

losthalo
Message no. 5
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:17:41 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-13 05:18:35 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> Personally I think anyone who uses the spell carelessly should someday look

> up
> to find a shotgun in their face... "Pretty funny, eh?" ;) ...boom...
> It's the sort of revenge one of my characters would have done. Give them
a
> little return on their investment of time and effort, you know? Then
again,
> I
> once had a PC blow away another PC in Call of Cthulhu just because he'd
> decided
> he wanted to become a cultist of Nyarlathotep, not because his SAN was
that
> low, but because he wanted personal power. :) Man, that was a fun group
to
> game with.
>
> losthalo
>
>
Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
"nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]
-Keith
Message no. 6
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:53:44 +0100
|Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
|"nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........
I've been reading it as los(th)alo....
Duh....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:12:03 -0500
You wrote:
> > losthalo
> >
> >
> Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
> "nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]

In fact it is a heckuva lot more complicated than that, but that's one
interpretation. Like a lot of things I choose for myself, it can swing both
ways... It also talks about my realization that I'm no longer a Christian,
though I have standards and morals. And it says that maybe instead of wanting
a halo I want other things right now. It also says that maybe a halo isn't
worth having, rather there are better ways of judging things and looking at
them. Lost illusions and mistaken ideas. Look at me, waxing all philosophic
over my netname...

losthaloGoFA6)7(Im6TJt)Fe(7P!ShMoBnone=(cBKc8MBV6sM3ZGoPuTeiClbMehC6a23=n4b55H17
3g4L??96FmT1Ea4@*********************************************************"While
youarelisteningtothisrecording,yourwillingattentionismakingyoumoreandmoreintothe
personyouwanttobecome."
Message no. 8
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:52:42 -0500
You wrote:
> |Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
> |"nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]

> Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........
> I've been reading it as los(th)alo....
> Duh....
As in Thalo Blue or somesuch? ;) And I thought it was so simple and
straightforward and boring...

little-lost-halo
Message no. 9
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:45:49 -0700
Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
> > So are control thoughts, emotions, and pretty much any other mind control
> > spell. I would certainly rather have an orgasm then have someone traipsing
> > through my mind ala Mind Probe.
> Did you hear me compare it to those others? No. I'm talking about the use of
> that spell. Sure Control Thoughts, et al. are not exactly ethical (neither is
> putting lead through people at sonic velocities). I just think that
> deliberately humiliating someone in a way that many people feel is worse than
> physical violence, shouldn't be a joke. Talking about how 'would you rather
> get hurt or have an orgasm?' assumes that having an orgasm is something
> everyone would prefer... you're projecting your preferences.

You did say that the spell was in your opinion akin to "controlling
someones most intimate thoughts and desires" If you do not consider
control thoughts and control emotions to do these exact same things then
your choice of words was poor, you did compare it to those spells by
what you said. I certainly never said that casting orgasm on someone
was ethical, and I can see where it might bother someone, but you seem
to think that humiliation in this way is drastically different then
humiliation in another way, and that people would rather be beaten up or
shot then have an orgasm in public. If me thinking that a vast
majority of people would not share your feelings on that is "projecting
my preferences" then you are absolutely correct that I am.

> > | > orgasm and get tired or burn to death as your head explodes?
> > |
> > | That really isn't the point. 'Would you rather be raped or murdered?'
> > isn't a
> > | fair choice, neither is something you should do to someone, eh? Some
> > people
> > | view sex pretty seriously, and this would be an extreme violation, doing
> > it to
> > | someone against their will (as opposed to voluntarily, which is an
> > original and
> > | interesting idea :) is the equivalent of taking control of their most
> > personal
> > | thoughts and desires. Not nice.
>
> > Actuall "would you rather be raped or mudered?" Has been answered by
> > several people I know with the later quite seriously. It's not making
> > anyone have sex with someone else as a controlling manipulation would, and
> > it in know way takes control of any thoughts or desires...I can't see it
> > being all that different from making someone wet their pants. It's a
> > bodily function and one that happens to feel good.
> Umm... orgasm is primarily a mental activity, contrary to popular belief. It
> is not a physiological response, despite perceptions to the contrary.
The act of ejaculation is a physiological response 100%...the stimulus
and trigger are mental you are correct, what the spell triggers the
physiological event, it does not in any way take control of the persons
mind and force them to reveal fantasies or things of that nature. The
spell triggers the pleasure center in the brain, and forces the body to
release the fluids...nothing more.

And just
> because no physical penetration occurs doesn't make it not rape, in this
> instance...

I still say that the comparison is unfair, you are comparing a
physically violent and in no way pleasurable event where someone is
physically restrained and forced to give in to another. The spell does
none of these things. The spell triggers a pleasurable feeling and a
sexual discharge, I am not going to say that you are wrong to compare
the two because I need to see some actual comparisons before I could say
that. How are they alike? I am assuming that you are somparing the
psycological effects on the victim afterwards. If this is the case then
say so. I still wouldn't agree that they would be the same, except in
extreme cases, but I would like some clarification.

> The idea of being forced ot experience and orgasm by a copmplete stranger
> doesn't bother you? You can't see why it would really freak someone out?

I never said that it wouldn't bother me, I am sure that I would be
sufficiently embarrassed, but I wouldn't feel like I had been violated
in a deeply physical and emotional way. I freely admit that some people
would take it more seriously then others, but as I said before it's
hardly the wors thing that you could do to someone.

~Caric
Message no. 10
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:47:09 -0700
Bruce H. Nagel wrote:

Oops sorry guys I meant to send the response through privat e-mail to
Bruce, my apologies hopefully I didn't offend anyone, and if I did I do
apologize.

Caric-the-pissed-at-my-work-compy-shaman
Message no. 11
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:22:42 -0700
Spike wrote:
>
> |Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
> |"nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]
>
> Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........
> I've been reading it as los(th)alo....
> Duh....

<handing Spike a carp> You do it, you need to handle this one yourself.
<shaking head sadly>

Caric :)
Message no. 12
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:51:39 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-13 19:40:28 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> > Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out
your
> > "nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]
>
> In fact it is a heckuva lot more complicated than that, but that's one
> interpretation. Like a lot of things I choose for myself, it can swing
both
> ways... It also talks about my realization that I'm no longer a
Christian,
> though I have standards and morals. And it says that maybe instead of
> wanting
> a halo I want other things right now. It also says that maybe a halo
isn't
> worth having, rather there are better ways of judging things and looking
at
> them. Lost illusions and mistaken ideas. Look at me, waxing all
philosophic
> over my netname...
>
>
And in a single breath no less....anyway...back to the listing...
-Keith

Further Reading

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