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Message no. 1
From: EdgeWalker EdgeWalker@*****.net
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:29:22 -0000
Hi all again,

Thanks for the input.
But, I was thinking along a slightly different line.
This one in fact :

Psionics has nothing to do with the sixth world. It is purely a development
of the human mind.

Here's a setting :

A team of runners walks in to a hostile bar looking for someone.
Suddenly one of the teams Sam's seems to go crazy, pulls his gun out and
starts spraying hot lead all over the bar.
The teams mage goes "Hmmm, something not right here. That look's like mind
control." The mage goes astral and starts looking for any astrally active
people in the room but can't find any cos' our friendly psionicly active NPC
is a mundane and is not astrally active. He is just using the power of his
mind to control the Sam.

The team then has to subdue the Sam and make a quick exit from the building.

That's the sort of thing I was thinking about. I want something that once
in a while I can throw a curve ball at the players from the rear when they
are expecting a fast ball from the front.

What's everyone's take on that idea?

EdgeWalker
Message no. 2
From: Bob Tockley zzdeden@*******.com.au
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:15:33 +1000
>A team of runners walks in to a hostile bar looking for someone.
>Suddenly one of the teams Sam's seems to go crazy, pulls his gun out and
>starts spraying hot lead all over the bar.
>The teams mage goes "Hmmm, something not right here. That look's like mind
>control." The mage goes astral and starts looking for any astrally active
>people in the room but can't find any cos' our friendly psionicly active NPC
>is a mundane and is not astrally active. He is just using the power of his
>mind to control the Sam.
>
>The team then has to subdue the Sam and make a quick exit from the building.
>
>That's the sort of thing I was thinking about. I want something that once
>in a while I can throw a curve ball at the players from the rear when they
>are expecting a fast ball from the front.
>
>What's everyone's take on that idea?

Well... I don't personally like the idea of introducing -another- type of
'magic' into the game. The effects listed can be produced easily enough
within the current rules. What was it in Awakenings - a Masking Ward -
hides all magical effects within its boundaries... Maybe the 'mage' in
question just happens to know a way to tailor it to hide only his spells...


(>) ARKHAM
"... and in the guise of man they came - dead men walking, enshrouded in
shadows so dark that the night itself was overcome in horror..."
- Digital Age Alive
Message no. 3
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:37:37 +0100
According to EdgeWalker, at 15:29 on 16 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> But, I was thinking along a slightly different line.
> This one in fact :
>
> Psionics has nothing to do with the sixth world. It is purely a development
> of the human mind.

That would take roughly 100 years longer to achieve...

:)

> Here's a setting :
>
> A team of runners walks in to a hostile bar looking for someone.
> Suddenly one of the teams Sam's seems to go crazy, pulls his gun out and
> starts spraying hot lead all over the bar.
> The teams mage goes "Hmmm, something not right here. That look's like mind
> control." The mage goes astral and starts looking for any astrally active
> people in the room but can't find any cos' our friendly psionicly active NPC
> is a mundane and is not astrally active. He is just using the power of his
> mind to control the Sam.
>
> The team then has to subdue the Sam and make a quick exit from the building.

My first reaction, as a magician PC, would be to think "That guy must be
an initiate masking his aura" right before the rest of the team will
follow the "geek the mage" principle against the NPC.

You'd have to have a really good explanation of why this character is a
psionic before I'd accept it...

> That's the sort of thing I was thinking about. I want something that once
> in a while I can throw a curve ball at the players from the rear when they
> are expecting a fast ball from the front.
>
> What's everyone's take on that idea?

It's not something I'd put into a game. My main reason is that it's a
completely new thing, that IMnsHO doesn't fit at all well with the
existing SR setting. If you want your players to come across something
unexpected, there are a LOT of possibilities in the existing SR material
already, without the need to introduce something radically different.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
There's no such things as a "brown alert," sir.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:36:11 +0100
Bob Tockley wrote:
>

> Well... I don't personally like the idea of introducing -another- type of
> 'magic' into the game. The effects listed can be produced easily enough
> within the current rules. What was it in Awakenings - a Masking Ward -
> hides all magical effects within its boundaries... Maybe the 'mage' in
> question just happens to know a way to tailor it to hide only his spells...

ARK, we are in agreement here ;)

--
Barbie

"I'm Pentium of Borg. Precision is irrelevant.
You will be aproximated."
Message no. 5
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:34:32 EST
In a message dated 2/16/1999 10:29:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
EdgeWalker@*****.net writes:

>
> What's everyone's take on that idea?
>
<snip an idea of a "psionic user" appearing as a "mundane" in a
bar>

Ha Ha, very cute (NOT!). Sadly, this won't happen by your own definitions
within the given boundaries of Aura Reading in SR. That individual is going
to have a very (okay, LIKELY to have), very vibrant quality to his/her(its?)
aura. And, due to various consequences, as the person "thinks the usage of
the talent to exert control actions over the target", the target of the talent
is going to have a reflective/similar aspect within their own aura to that of
the user.

We've had another option for a setting....

-=-=-

Team of runners is hiding out, about to break in to a lab located on Xocatli-3
(an orbital factory owned by Aztechnology). The team's magician is there
mostly for her expertise in electronics (that, and she owns the highest grade,
to SOTA standards, Maglock in the party). The whole time, the magician keeps
feeling like she's being watched, but can't quite figure it out, and is
deathly afraid to perform an astral perception action.

Next thing anyone knows, the doors are opening at the end of the gantry
access, and a couple of armored suit types are drifting their way, lasers
brought to bare. Just as the team's samurai are about to respond, the sammie
on the left reaches out and slaps the sammie on the right. The goons keep
approaching, not even going to have to deal with the team's counteractions.

There's "Control Actions" for a Psionic's User (your definition, and to an
extent, ours as well).

-K
Message no. 6
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon@*******.com
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:59:35 PST
>In a message dated 2/16/1999 10:29:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>EdgeWalker@*****.net writes:

>> What's everyone's take on that idea?
>>
><snip an idea of a "psionic user" appearing as a "mundane" in a
bar>
>
>Ha Ha, very cute (NOT!). Sadly, this won't happen by your own
definitions
>within the given boundaries of Aura Reading in SR. That individual is
going
>to have a very (okay, LIKELY to have), very vibrant quality to
his/her(its?)
>aura. And, due to various consequences, as the person "thinks the
usage of
>the talent to exert control actions over the target", the target of the
talent
>is going to have a reflective/similar aspect within their own aura to
that of
>the user.
>
>We've had another option for a setting....
>
>-=-=-
>
>Team of runners is hiding out, about to break in to a lab located on
Xocatli-3
>(an orbital factory owned by Aztechnology). The team's magician is
there
>mostly for her expertise in electronics (that, and she owns the highest
grade,
>to SOTA standards, Maglock in the party). The whole time, the magician
keeps
>feeling like she's being watched, but can't quite figure it out, and is
>deathly afraid to perform an astral perception action.
>
>Next thing anyone knows, the doors are opening at the end of the gantry
>access, and a couple of armored suit types are drifting their way,
lasers
>brought to bare. Just as the team's samurai are about to respond, the
sammie
>on the left reaches out and slaps the sammie on the right. The goons
keep
>approaching, not even going to have to deal with the team's
counteractions.
>
>There's "Control Actions" for a Psionic's User (your definition, and to
an
>extent, ours as well).
>
>-K

The only thing is, you have to remember that this scenario only works if
your psionicist is totally non-magical. If psionics are a magical
offshoot in your game, you try this, your head pops.

*Doc' concentrates really hard on using "Control Thoughts" to make his
boss give him a raise and his head explodes...*

Doc'

.sig Sauer


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Message no. 7
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:58:57 EST
In a message dated 99-02-16 10:29:11 EST, you write:

> The team then has to subdue the Sam and make a quick exit from the building.
>
> That's the sort of thing I was thinking about. I want something that once
> in a while I can throw a curve ball at the players from the rear when they
> are expecting a fast ball from the front.
>
> What's everyone's take on that idea?
>

Not sure I like it, but I think it would be pretty salvageable. I really
think your re-inventing the wheel, and I'm not sure if I would create what
your suggesting here.

As to game effects: Ok, I can see some of what your going for here, but I
still prefer the thought that psionics are just another form of magical
expression. Use the mage rules, leave out the ability to summon spirits or
enchant, and I think your pretty close. For what you've described, I'd add in
the fact that only psionics can sense psionic 'spells' and only mages can
sense mage 'spells'. Thats just the spells themselves. In the case that you
describe here, I would allow the mage to tell that someone is mind controling
him... its pretty obvious that something is impinging on the sam's aura, and
that there is a psychic doing it cause the mage cant trace the spell. Other
than that, it is a nice way to do what your thinking of.
Message no. 8
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:42:50 EST
In a message dated 2/16/1999 9:03:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
docwagon@*******.com writes:

>
> *Doc' concentrates really hard on using "Control Thoughts" to make his
> boss give him a raise and his head explodes...*

Who's head, your's or your bosses???

-K (asking a question that would be great if the implications could work in
game)
Message no. 9
From: Iridios iridios@*********.com
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:50:28 -0500
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/16/1999 9:03:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> docwagon@*******.com writes:
>
> >
> > *Doc' concentrates really hard on using "Control Thoughts" to make
his
> > boss give him a raise and his head explodes...*
>
> Who's head, your's or your bosses???

Gotta be his bosses. Makes it easier to get promoted. ;)

> -K (asking a question that would be great if the implications could work in
> game)


--
"My fellow Americans,
I'm pleased to tell you today, that I've signed legislation that
will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes"
-Ronald Reagan

Iridios
iridios@*********.com
ICQ UIN:6629224
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489

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Message no. 10
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon@*******.com
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:13:54 PST
>In a message dated 2/16/1999 9:03:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>docwagon@*******.com writes:
>> *Doc' concentrates really hard on using "Control Thoughts" to make
his
>> boss give him a raise and his head explodes...*
>
>Who's head, your's or your bosses???
>
>-K (asking a question that would be great if the implications could
work in
>game)

*Doc' gets back up off the floor where he was busy suffering a hernia
after reading K's message. "Mine, of course. I'm constipated, but I
haven't been arrested for murder."*

Doc'

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 11
From: Stuart M. Willis hbiki@****.geocities.com
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:10:54 +1100
Re: Psionics
>That's the sort of thing I was thinking about. I want something that once
>in a while I can throw a curve ball at the players from the rear when they
>are expecting a fast ball from the front.
>
>What's everyone's take on that idea?

Done it before [admittedly only when I first began running Shadowrun, and
way before got Awakenings.. and I don't think we did it after a year.. no
poin really[.

Certainly useful as a 'what the fuck are we dealing with?' kind of thing.
Some people will suspect its a masking magician, others wont' be so sure.

Anyway, check out ShadowLore or whatever its called for some (unfinished)
Psionic rules. Or alternatively, do as I did and make up your own rules.

s.

---------------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 12
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:18:23 +0100
According to Stuart M. Willis, at 21:10 on 17 Feb 99, the word on
the street was...

> Anyway, check out ShadowLore or whatever its called for some (unfinished)
> Psionic rules. Or alternatively, do as I did and make up your own rules.

NERPS: Lost And Found is what you're after, specifically the section
titled NERPS: Shadows Of The Mind. If you really want a set of psionics
rules, it might be a good starting point.

Oh yeah, you can find it at http://shadowrun.html.com/nerps, then scroll
down to the Lost And Found header.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
There's no such things as a "brown alert," sir.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 13
From: Airwasp@***.com Airwasp@***.com
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:22:49 EST
In a message dated 2/16/1999 10:29:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
EdgeWalker@*****.net writes:

> A team of runners walks in to a hostile bar looking for someone.
> Suddenly one of the teams Sam's seems to go crazy, pulls his gun out and
> starts spraying hot lead all over the bar.
> The teams mage goes "Hmmm, something not right here. That look's like mind
> control." The mage goes astral and starts looking for any astrally active
> people in the room but can't find any cos' our friendly psionicly active
NPC
> is a mundane and is not astrally active. He is just using the power of his
> mind to control the Sam.
>
> The team then has to subdue the Sam and make a quick exit from the
building.
>
> That's the sort of thing I was thinking about. I want something that once
> in a while I can throw a curve ball at the players from the rear when they
> are expecting a fast ball from the front.
>
> What's everyone's take on that idea?

Decent idea, though the same thing could have been accomplished using magic.
The mage doing the 'screwing over' would have been someplace else and would
have been looking into the bar via a fibre optic cable and a camera somewhere
in the bar. A spotter could have been placed in the bar who would assist in
pointing out the target to the mage in case they don't see the target come
into the place in the first place.

Saying that you want psionics to throw some havoc into the player's lives is,
IMO, cheapening both Magic and Psionics to begin with.

-Herc
Message no. 14
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: Psionics 2
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:44:54 +0100
And so it came to happen that EdgeWalker wrote:
> Thanks for the input.
> But, I was thinking along a slightly different line.
> This one in fact :
>
> Psionics has nothing to do with the sixth world. It is purely a development
> of the human mind.

Argh, Steadfast prepares himself to listen...

> Here's a setting :
>
> A team of runners walks in to a hostile bar looking for someone.
> Suddenly one of the teams Sam's seems to go crazy, pulls his gun out and
> starts spraying hot lead all over the bar.
> The teams mage goes "Hmmm, something not right here. That look's like mind
> control." The mage goes astral and starts looking for any astrally active
> people in the room but can't find any cos' our friendly psionicly active NPC
> is a mundane and is not astrally active. He is just using the power of his
> mind to control the Sam.
>
> The team then has to subdue the Sam and make a quick exit from the building.
>
> That's the sort of thing I was thinking about. I want something that once
> in a while I can throw a curve ball at the players from the rear when they
> are expecting a fast ball from the front.
>
> What's everyone's take on that idea?

Exactly what I thought!
Terrible!
Magic without possibility to counter or to shield against. You get all the
Boni and get not very much negative. Trust me, I know what I am talking as I
had the "fun" to read about such things two years back in a fanzine here in
Germany called Data-Heaven. In there they got a whole article about this
where they essentialy gave players (and GM's who allowed this) the
possibility of using Magic without possible trace or link to the psiker. It
was exactly the same like the Mages, every spell was possible using psi.
Sure it might be nice to use once in a while to shock the players and if you
want to, feel free to do, it is your game! But in my games I try to shock
the players with twists of the plot which they thought to know how they work
(that is if I have time to actually plan a Run upfront, damn moneymaking).
Consider the following:
If Psi is possible the Corps would try to learn as much as possible about
this. Consider many Psi active beeings either under Corp control or not
knowing and not using their talents or dead. If the Corps already know about
Psi (which I truly would consider quite a fact, something like this could
not be hold in the dark for very long considering the development of Magic
in the SR timeline). If it could than every corp would try to have them,
resulting in active research through any resource possible (runners...) and
possibly if enough data is gathered in courtmarshal through the corporate
court that this knowledge has to be made available to everyone to retain the
balance of power. Of course this one PoV, but not the baddest I guess. And
to end this rant, I say that the appearance of "real Psi" would not only
result in one special beeing but in many beeings as it is considered (if you
could say it is a scientific topic) as an evolutionary process.
Phu, I hope I have made my PoV clear then.
(grin)

--
__________________________________________
---> Steadfast
Selfproclaimed protector of Gerber
BABY's
Mmwahahahahaar...
"I have 'grosse bumm' in my Pocket!
Yes, a real 'GROSSE BUUMM'!"
German translation for Savalette Guardian.
__________________________________________

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