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Message no. 1
From: korishinzo@*******.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 15:50:16 +0000
>From: Lone Eagle

> >From: "Aethelwulf" <uptoic@***********.net>
> >give me a not necessarily to scale foot print sketch of the main >
> >floor, with outsid dimentions and then accurate descriptions of what >
> >you decide to put in the ground floor and I would be willing to try > >to
>draw it up on autocad, as long as it doesn't interfere with my > >studies
>;)

>doesn't help that much actually, just taking the height, dividing it >among
>the floors and subtracting an assumed thickness (of only about 4 >inches
>(100mm) IIRC) puts the floor to ceiling height at about 1.8m... >someone
>got their maths a little off.

4 inch floors?!? Not unless you have some pretty impressive advances in
construction technology. And a load bearing wall every 6 feet. A building
like the Arcology would have literally miles of ducting, wiring, and
plumbing. That has to go somewhere. In addition, the botom two floors are
a mall, IIRC, and are not standard height at all. The height to floor
number ratio sounds like it is more than a little off. That said, the outer
dimensions of the ground floor should not be hard to figure out. If you
know the height, and set an arbitrary pitch for the walls of the pyramid
shaped building, you will know the base dimensions.

Korishinzo
--plus crawlspace for all those sec drones :)

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Message no. 2
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:18:21 +0200
According to Ice Heart, on Wed, 18 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> 4 inch floors?!? Not unless you have some pretty impressive advances in
> construction technology. And a load bearing wall every 6 feet. A
> building like the Arcology would have literally miles of ducting, wiring,
> and plumbing. That has to go somewhere.

See page 72 of Renraku Arcology: Shutdown (or check the Seattle Sourcebook,
p. 47). It's 969 meters high and has 320 floors. That gives a height of 3
meters and 3 cm per floor; assuming that doorways are 2 m high and the
ceiling is a bit higher still, that gives between 50 and 75 cm of floor
thickness (including crawlspace etc.). I'm not entirely sure if the 320
floors includes the 21 basement levels (the 3.03 m per floor assumes it
doesn't), but if it does, then each floor has even more space.

OTOH, if you assume the entire building is built to accomodate trolls, then
you need about 3 m per floor to give them a bit of headroom, and end up
with floors that are most likely made of cardboard...

--
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-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 3
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:02:34 -0700
.
>
> OTOH, if you assume the entire building is built to accomodate
> trolls, then
> you need about 3 m per floor to give them a bit of headroom, and end
> up
> with floors that are most likely made of cardboard...
>
Well, that's part of what I mean. Some of the dimensions are just gonna
have to change. We know the number of floors, we know other stuff, we
just have to figure out what has to change, and then make a complete
set of dimensions. (and then do the floorplans).
--Anders
Message no. 4
From: bd_92@*****.com (b d)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:14:16 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> Well, that's part of what I mean. Some of the
> dimensions are just gonna
> have to change. We know the number of floors, we
> know other stuff, we
> just have to figure out what has to change, and then
> make a complete
> set of dimensions. (and then do the floorplans).
> --Anders


well what is the likelyhood of Renraku hiring trolls
or orks? Didn't they have a sort of ban on them? Even
for security?

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Message no. 5
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 14:46:00 -0700
On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:14:16 -0700 (PDT)
b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
> > >
> > Well, that's part of what I mean. Some of the
> > dimensions are just gonna
> > have to change. We know the number of floors, we
> > know other stuff, we
> > just have to figure out what has to change, and then
> > make a complete
> > set of dimensions. (and then do the floorplans).
> > --Anders
>
>
> well what is the likelyhood of Renraku hiring trolls
> or orks? Didn't they have a sort of ban on them? Even
> for security?
>
Gee, the idea of the whole huge arcology, and no internal room or
corridor that could accommodate a Troll. Let's go with a floor height
to accommodate trolls and a decent amount of crawl space.
--Anders
Message no. 6
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:29:53 +0000
>From: b d <bd_92@*****.com>
>well what is the likelyhood of Renraku hiring trolls
>or orks? Didn't they have a sort of ban on them? Even
>for security?

They may not have a particularly metahuman friendly recruitment policy but
they're hardly Humanis. You've also got to consider that the top floors, the
executive bits, are going to have higher ceilings than the office spaces.
The same with the mall and very definitely the manufacturing areas and the
reator hall; granted the reator hall is entirely underground but has anyone
ever seen the size of the turbine hall of a modern 440MW power station? The
expense involved in digging that out of the rock is seriously whoaaa!
Especially that close to the Sound.

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Message no. 7
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:24:27 +0200
According to Anders Swenson, on Wed, 18 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Well, that's part of what I mean. Some of the dimensions are just gonna
> have to change. We know the number of floors, we know other stuff, we
> just have to figure out what has to change, and then make a complete
> set of dimensions. (and then do the floorplans).

Good luck... I wouldn't want to have to draw 341 floors, especially not ones
the size of those of the Arcology -- remember that no two floors will be the
same, because of the pyramid shape of the building.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 8
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:28:36 +0200
According to Anders Swenson, on Wed, 18 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Gee, the idea of the whole huge arcology, and no internal room or
> corridor that could accommodate a Troll. Let's go with a floor height
> to accommodate trolls and a decent amount of crawl space.

I think it can fit, just as long as you don't want every floor to be sized
for trolls.

However, you don't need to have the actual floors at exactly the same height
throughout each floor. There could be height differences (up to, say, a meter
or so) to give more room in some places.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:49:28 +0000
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
>However, you don't need to have the actual floors at exactly the same
>height
>throughout each floor. There could be height differences (up to, say, a
>meter
>or so) to give more room in some places.

Bear in mind that if you did do that you'd either have to eliminate or
expand crawlspaces or carry that level change through to the next floor.

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Message no. 10
From: York.GA@******.ca (York.GA@******.ca)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:58:58 -0400
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gurth [mailto:Gurth@******.nl]
>Sent: Wednesday, 18, September, 2002 13:18 PM
>To: Shadowrun Discussion
>Subject: Re: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
>
>OTOH, if you assume the entire building is built to accomodate trolls, then

>you need about 3 m per floor to give them a bit of headroom, and end up
>with floors that are most likely made of cardboard...

Renraku is a Japanese Corp. Why would they cater to trolls? They hate all
metahumans...

Kato
Message no. 11
From: bd_92@*****.com (b d)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
I just read the book last nite. It said the floors on
avg were 2.8m tall, whether that is correct or not
remains to be seen but the building is mostly made for
humanoids of shorter stature than a troll and the
stance of renraku has been quite standoffish when it
comes to metahumans....


--- Gurth <Gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to Anders Swenson, on Wed, 18 Sep 2002 the
> word on the street was...
>
> > Gee, the idea of the whole huge arcology, and no
> internal room or
> > corridor that could accommodate a Troll. Let's go
> with a floor height
> > to accommodate trolls and a decent amount of crawl
> space.
>
> I think it can fit, just as long as you don't want
> every floor to be sized
> for trolls.
>
> However, you don't need to have the actual floors at
> exactly the same height
> throughout each floor. There could be height
> differences (up to, say, a meter
> or so) to give more room in some places.
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl -
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> I know all this and more
> -> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec *
> Triangle Virtuoso <-
> -> The Plastic Warriors Page:
> http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-
>
> GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E
> W--(++) N o? K w(--)
> O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@
> DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
> Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball,
21-05-1998


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Message no. 12
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:08:27 -0700
On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
> I just read the book last nite. It said the floors on
> avg were 2.8m tall, whether that is correct or not
> remains to be seen but the building is mostly made for
> humanoids of shorter stature than a troll and the
> stance of renraku has been quite standoffish when it
> comes to metahumans....
>
>
So Trolls are not accommodated. OK, what's the standard for space
between skyscraper floors?
--Anders
Message no. 13
From: bd_92@*****.com (b d)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:10:57 -0700 (PDT)
--- Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
> b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
> > I just read the book last nite. It said the floors
> on
> > avg were 2.8m tall, whether that is correct or not
> > remains to be seen but the building is mostly made
> for
> > humanoids of shorter stature than a troll and the
> > stance of renraku has been quite standoffish when
> it
> > comes to metahumans....
> >
> >
> So Trolls are not accommodated. OK, what's the
> standard for space
> between skyscraper floors?
> --Anders


currently or in the book? The book said 2.8 with 2cm
for thickness in the flooring structure. I would say
that the arcology is much taller as you would have to
have room to put in cable, water pipes etc. and i
highly doubt 2cm is enough space to do that in.

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Message no. 14
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:16:01 -0700
On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:10:57 -0700 (PDT)
b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
>
> --- Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
> > > I just read the book last nite. It said the floors
> > on
> > > avg were 2.8m tall, whether that is correct or not
> > > remains to be seen but the building is mostly made
> > for
> > > humanoids of shorter stature than a troll and the
> > > stance of renraku has been quite standoffish when
> > it
> > > comes to metahumans....
> > >
> > >
> > So Trolls are not accommodated. OK, what's the
> > standard for space
> > between skyscraper floors?
> > --Anders
>
>
> currently or in the book? The book said 2.8 with 2cm
> for thickness in the flooring structure. I would say
> that the arcology is much taller as you would have to
> have room to put in cable, water pipes etc. and i
> highly doubt 2cm is enough space to do that in.
>
Well, the Archology book has some impossibilities. What would it be in
a real building built today?
--Anders
Message no. 15
From: uptoic@***********.net (Aethelwulf)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:17:14 -0600
street was...
>
> > Gee, the idea of the whole huge arcology, and no internal room or
> > corridor that could accommodate a Troll. Let's go with a floor height
> > to accommodate trolls and a decent amount of crawl space.
>
I just recently re read the secrets of power trilogy, (never deal with a
dragon, choose your enemies carfully, and find your own truth) and was
reminded that Renraku is a Japanese megacorp and to the Japanesse,
metahumans are lower than their untouchable class that are around to do
things like garbage collection and touching and burying bodies.... so the
arcology levels that are accessible only to employees will not accomodate
the larger metahuman sizes. however, the public access areas might.

Aethelwulf
Message no. 16
From: bd_92@*****.com (b d)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:19:00 -0700 (PDT)
--- Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:10:57 -0700 (PDT)
> b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
> >
> > --- Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > > b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
> > > > I just read the book last nite. It said the
> floors
> > > on
> > > > avg were 2.8m tall, whether that is correct or
> not
> > > > remains to be seen but the building is mostly
> made
> > > for
> > > > humanoids of shorter stature than a troll and
> the
> > > > stance of renraku has been quite standoffish
> when
> > > it
> > > > comes to metahumans....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > So Trolls are not accommodated. OK, what's the
> > > standard for space
> > > between skyscraper floors?
> > > --Anders
> >
> >
> > currently or in the book? The book said 2.8 with
> 2cm
> > for thickness in the flooring structure. I would
> say
> > that the arcology is much taller as you would have
> to
> > have room to put in cable, water pipes etc. and i
> > highly doubt 2cm is enough space to do that in.
> >
> Well, the Archology book has some impossibilities.
> What would it be in
> a real building built today?
> --Anders

18-20 inches maybe? I am not an archetecht by anymeans
but i am pretty sure they have drop down celiengs
where you can get at the stuff and probably have
advanced piping, electrical conduit that doubles as
data lines, etc. that would work. Tough to say, but
2cm is an impossibility...

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Message no. 17
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:18:55 -0700
On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:24:27 +0200
Gurth <Gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to Anders Swenson, on Wed, 18 Sep 2002 the word on the
> street was...
>
> > Well, that's part of what I mean. Some of the dimensions are just
> gonna
> > have to change. We know the number of floors, we know other stuff,
> we
> > just have to figure out what has to change, and then make a
> complete
> > set of dimensions. (and then do the floorplans).
>
> Good luck... I wouldn't want to have to draw 341 floors, especially
> not ones
> the size of those of the Arcology -- remember that no two floors will
> be the
> same, because of the pyramid shape of the building.
That dosen't have to be true. I came to the concvlusion that the
interior progression of floors would be more like a stepped pyramid,
within the smooth pyramid of the exterior. But we don't have to map
each interior floor, at least at first.
--Anders
Message no. 18
From: bd_92@*****.com (b d)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:19:54 -0700 (PDT)
--- Aethelwulf <uptoic@***********.net> wrote:
> street was...
> >
> > > Gee, the idea of the whole huge arcology, and no
> internal room or
> > > corridor that could accommodate a Troll. Let's
> go with a floor height
> > > to accommodate trolls and a decent amount of
> crawl space.
> >
> I just recently re read the secrets of power
> trilogy, (never deal with a
> dragon, choose your enemies carfully, and find your
> own truth) and was
> reminded that Renraku is a Japanese megacorp and to
> the Japanesse,
> metahumans are lower than their untouchable class
> that are around to do
> things like garbage collection and touching and
> burying bodies.... so the
> arcology levels that are accessible only to
> employees will not accomodate
> the larger metahuman sizes. however, the public
> access areas might.
>


But these are areas that are open and available such
as the FunZone, Gardens, Etc..

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Message no. 19
From: bd_92@*****.com (b d)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:20:59 -0700 (PDT)
--- Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:24:27 +0200
> Gurth <Gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> > According to Anders Swenson, on Wed, 18 Sep 2002
> the word on the
> > street was...
> >
> > > Well, that's part of what I mean. Some of the
> dimensions are just
> > gonna
> > > have to change. We know the number of floors, we
> know other stuff,
> > we
> > > just have to figure out what has to change, and
> then make a
> > complete
> > > set of dimensions. (and then do the floorplans).
> >
> > Good luck... I wouldn't want to have to draw 341
> floors, especially
> > not ones
> > the size of those of the Arcology -- remember that
> no two floors will
> > be the
> > same, because of the pyramid shape of the
> building.
> That dosen't have to be true. I came to the
> concvlusion that the
> interior progression of floors would be more like a
> stepped pyramid,
> within the smooth pyramid of the exterior. But we
> don't have to map
> each interior floor, at least at first.
> --Anders

I'd even gague to zay a ziggeraut would be more
likely. 340 floors all scaling upwards...for exmaple i
would take the casino out in vegas to be the best
example of this design and go from there..


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Message no. 20
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:34:07 -0700
On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:20:59 -0700 (PDT)
b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
>
> > > the size of those of the Arcology -- remember that
> > no two floors will
> > > be the
> > > same, because of the pyramid shape of the
> > building.
> > That dosen't have to be true. I came to the
> > concvlusion that the
> > interior progression of floors would be more like a
> > stepped pyramid,
> > within the smooth pyramid of the exterior. But we
> > don't have to map
> > each interior floor, at least at first.
> > --Anders
>
> I'd even gague to zay a ziggeraut would be more
> likely. 340 floors all scaling upwards...for exmaple i
> would take the casino out in vegas to be the best
> example of this design and go from there..
>
I haven't seen that building, and I forget how a ziggeraut is shaped.
I'd like to hear from somebody who knows how many feet or meters
between floors is reasonable. does 1 meter do it?
--Anders
Message no. 21
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:36:22 +0200
According to Anders Swenson, on Thu, 19 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> I haven't seen that building, and I forget how a ziggeraut is shaped.
> I'd like to hear from somebody who knows how many feet or meters
> between floors is reasonable. does 1 meter do it?

One meter is enough for some serious crawlspace... Like I said in my first
post in this thread, it seems to me that, if you design the building with
just humans in mind, the dimensions are pretty good -- 3 meters per floor
gives plenty of room for the thickness of the actual floor as well as for a
false ceiling underneath it to hide all kinds of ducting.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:19:19 +0200
According to Lone Eagle, on Thu, 19 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Bear in mind that if you did do that you'd either have to eliminate or
> expand crawlspaces or carry that level change through to the next floor.

Or set part of the floor aside for stuff that doesn't normally need people
accessing it -- like ventilation, heating, and so on.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 23
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:09:28 -0700
On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:36:22 +0200
Gurth <Gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to Anders Swenson, on Thu, 19 Sep 2002 the word on the
> street was...
>
> > I haven't seen that building, and I forget how a ziggeraut is
> shaped.
> > I'd like to hear from somebody who knows how many feet or meters
> > between floors is reasonable. does 1 meter do it?
>
> One meter is enough for some serious crawlspace... Like I said in my
> first
> post in this thread, it seems to me that, if you design the building
> with
> just humans in mind, the dimensions are pretty good -- 3 meters per
> floor
> gives plenty of room for the thickness of the actual floor as well as
> for a
> false ceiling underneath it to hide all kinds of ducting.
>
> --
Don't forget the previous posting that cited nearly 3m tall floors. 4m?
--Anders
Message no. 24
From: JSB@**************.net (JS Bracher)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:40:58 -0700
At 09:19 AM 9/19/2002 -0700, b d wrote:
>...
> > Well, the Archology book has some impossibilities.
> > What would it be in
> > a real building built today?
> > --Anders
>
>18-20 inches maybe? I am not an archetecht by anymeans
>but i am pretty sure they have drop down celiengs
>where you can get at the stuff and probably have
>advanced piping, electrical conduit that doubles as
>data lines, etc. that would work. Tough to say, but
>2cm is an impossibility...

Based on what I've seen, it can be as much as 3'. And the ceilings are
sometimes 10' or more to begin with.
Message no. 25
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 20:07:17 +0000
>From: "Aethelwulf" <uptoic@***********.net>
<Snip>
>Renraku is a Japanese megacorp and to the Japanesse,
>metahumans are lower than their untouchable class that are around to do
>things like garbage collection and touching and burying bodies.... so the
>arcology levels that are accessible only to employees will not accomodate
>the larger metahuman sizes. however, the public access areas might.

The thing about that point is that the Archology is supposed to be a totally
self sufficient system right? So people to collect garbage and deal with the
dead would be needed...
And you don't want people banging their heads on the lights while granny
being taken away do you.
I have to say that I don't put trolls at 3 meters, I think shorter, just my
preference...

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Message no. 26
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:13:02 -0600
At 08:07 PM 9/19/2002 +0000, Lone Eagle wrote:
>>From: "Aethelwulf" <uptoic@***********.net>
><Snip>
>>Renraku is a Japanese megacorp and to the Japanesse,
>>metahumans are lower than their untouchable class that are around to do
>>things like garbage collection and touching and burying bodies.... so the
>>arcology levels that are accessible only to employees will not accomodate
>>the larger metahuman sizes. however, the public access areas might.
>
>The thing about that point is that the Archology is supposed to be a
>totally self sufficient system right? So people to collect garbage and
>deal with the dead would be needed...
>And you don't want people banging their heads on the lights while granny
>being taken away do you.
>I have to say that I don't put trolls at 3 meters, I think shorter, just
>my preference...

You misread his post Lone :)

Metahumans are *lower* than the people who are garbage collectors and
gravediggers. It's plausible that the Renraku Archology not designed to
accommodate trolls, as Renraku did not anticipate hiring trolls to work in
the Archology.

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--
Message no. 27
From: bd_92@*****.com (b d)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
> You misread his post Lone :)
>
> Metahumans are *lower* than the people who are
> garbage collectors and
> gravediggers. It's plausible that the Renraku
> Archology not designed to
> accommodate trolls, as Renraku did not anticipate
> hiring trolls to work in
> the Archology.
>


true let's move forward with this in mind..Archology
is not made for anything larger than humans..

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Message no. 28
From: pgrosse@********.com (Paul Grosse)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:01:17 -0500
> > You misread his post Lone :)
> >
> > Metahumans are *lower* than the people who are
> > garbage collectors and
> > gravediggers. It's plausible that the Renraku
> > Archology not designed to
> > accommodate trolls, as Renraku did not anticipate
> > hiring trolls to work in
> > the Archology.
> >
>
>
> true let's move forward with this in mind..Archology
> is not made for anything larger than humans..
>
> b d

Question: What CAD program you planning on using for designing the
floorplans?
Message no. 29
From: ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:30:40 +0100
In article <20020919115857.030EA2A705@****.forces.ca>, York.GA@******.ca
writes
>>you need about 3 m per floor to give them a bit of headroom, and end up
>>with floors that are most likely made of cardboard...
>
>Renraku is a Japanese Corp. Why would they cater to trolls? They hate all
>metahumans...

In Japan, maybe. In the UCAS, they heed to be a _little_ more flexible
(unless they flag their mall 'Real Humans Only')


--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 30
From: ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:32:51 +0100
In article <5.1.1.6.0.20020919141048.00a7e8b0@****.imcprint.com>, Graht
<davidb@****.imcprint.com> writes
>At 08:07 PM 9/19/2002 +0000, Lone Eagle wrote:
>>The thing about that point is that the Archology is supposed to be a
>>totally self sufficient system right? So people to collect garbage and
>>deal with the dead would be needed...
>>And you don't want people banging their heads on the lights while
>>granny being taken away do you.
>>I have to say that I don't put trolls at 3 meters, I think shorter,
>>just my preference...
>
>You misread his post Lone :)
>
>Metahumans are *lower* than the people who are garbage collectors and
>gravediggers.

So who is Renraku hiring for those jobs? Are they importing _eta_ from
Japan?

>It's plausible that the Renraku Archology not designed to accommodate
>trolls, as Renraku did not anticipate hiring trolls to work in the
>Archology.

It would depend whether the Arcology is built to Japanese or UCAS codes.



--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 31
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:39:09 -0600
At 11:32 PM 9/19/2002 +0100, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>In article <5.1.1.6.0.20020919141048.00a7e8b0@****.imcprint.com>, Graht
><davidb@****.imcprint.com> writes
>>At 08:07 PM 9/19/2002 +0000, Lone Eagle wrote:
>>>The thing about that point is that the Archology is supposed to be a
>>>totally self sufficient system right? So people to collect garbage and
>>>deal with the dead would be needed...
>>>And you don't want people banging their heads on the lights while granny
>>>being taken away do you.
>>>I have to say that I don't put trolls at 3 meters, I think shorter, just
>>>my preference...
>>
>>You misread his post Lone :)
>>
>>Metahumans are *lower* than the people who are garbage collectors and
>>gravediggers.
>
>So who is Renraku hiring for those jobs? Are they importing _eta_ from Japan?

Probably hiring locals (but not metas).

>>It's plausible that the Renraku Archology not designed to accommodate
>>trolls, as Renraku did not anticipate hiring trolls to work in the Archology.
>
>It would depend whether the Arcology is built to Japanese or UCAS codes.

It was built by a mega on mega soil, so it doesn't have to conform to UCAS
codes when it comes to ceiling height.

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--
Message no. 32
From: rifter72@*****.com (Michael Brabitz)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:24:42 -0700 (PDT)
--- Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:10:57 -0700 (PDT)
> b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
> >
> > --- Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > > b d <bd_92@*****.com> wrote:
> > > > I just read the book last nite. It said the
> floors
> > > on
> > > > avg were 2.8m tall, whether that is correct or
> not
> > > > remains to be seen but the building is mostly
> made
> > > for
> > > > humanoids of shorter stature than a troll and
> the
> > > > stance of renraku has been quite standoffish
> when
> > > it
> > > > comes to metahumans....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > So Trolls are not accommodated. OK, what's the
> > > standard for space
> > > between skyscraper floors?
> > > --Anders
> >
> >
> > currently or in the book? The book said 2.8 with
> 2cm
> > for thickness in the flooring structure. I would
> say
> > that the arcology is much taller as you would have
> to
> > have room to put in cable, water pipes etc. and i
> > highly doubt 2cm is enough space to do that in.
> >
> Well, the Archology book has some impossibilities.
> What would it be in
> a real building built today?
> --Anders
First question i'll ask is.
1. Scale= Meters or Imperials (feet)

2. Design Standards. American (floor to ceiling
hieghts 8.4" feet)
Japanenes (floor to ceiling
hieghts 7.5" feet)

3. Geological study= the type of ground is it being
built on, how far down till bedrock ...ect....

Michael

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Message no. 33
From: dam01@***.edu.au (Damion Milliken)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:43:43 +1000
Gurth writes:

> OTOH, if you assume the entire building is built to accomodate trolls,
> then you need about 3 m per floor to give them a bit of headroom, and end
> up with floors that are most likely made of cardboard...

...Or woven monowire... <ducks under Gurth's stairs>

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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e++>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
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Message no. 34
From: dam01@***.edu.au (Damion Milliken)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:44:54 +1000
Lone Eagle writes:

> They may not have a particularly metahuman friendly recruitment policy but
> they're hardly Humanis. You've also got to consider that the top floors,
> the executive bits, are going to have higher ceilings than the office
> spaces. The same with the mall and very definitely the manufacturing areas
> and the reator hall; granted the reator hall is entirely underground but
> has anyone ever seen the size of the turbine hall of a modern 440MW power
> station? The expense involved in digging that out of the rock is seriously
> whoaaa! Especially that close to the Sound.

Remember, the three power plants for the arcology are fusion reactors, and
so probably do not fall into the category of 2002 "modern" plants.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+@ 5@ X+>+++ R++ tv(-) b+ DI+++@ D-@ G+
e++>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 35
From: JSB@**************.net (JS Bracher)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 18:15:44 -0700
At 04:39 PM 9/19/2002 -0600, Graht wrote:
>...
>It was built by a mega on mega soil, so it doesn't have to conform to UCAS
>codes when it comes to ceiling height.

It's a corp. Why would it care about local building codes? Who would
enforce them, especially in Seattle. And if codes were going to be
enforced, how would local building departments handle a corp coming in and
building something the size of the archology. So what if a local
bureaucrat complained? Is the governor really going to make a case of it?

If there are codes and they are enforced, I can tell you from modern local
politics, something this size would get any waiver requested. Seattle
politicians routinely bend over for Boeing, Microsoft, etc. They get tax
breaks, waivers, whatever to keep them happy. And Boeing still moves to
Chicago and lays off lots of local workers. In SR, I'm sure they would do
the same for Renraku.

In the SR world, has Microsoft moved to Chicago too? I'm thinking they
would be a great source for Bug infestation...
Message no. 36
From: JSB@**************.net (JS Bracher)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:46:15 -0700
At 05:24 PM 9/19/2002 -0700, Michael Brabitz wrote:
>....
>First question i'll ask is.
>1. Scale= Meters or Imperials (feet)

Meters. I believe SI (System International) is used in Japan today. Can't
imagine why it would change for SR. And I can't imagine the architect they
use would not be Japanese and use SI.

>2. Design Standards. American (floor to ceiling
>hieghts 8.4" feet)
> Japanenes (floor to ceiling
>hieghts 7.5" feet)

7.5". It's a Japanese Corp building for themselves. Why not build it
their way? Why bother with US standards?

>3. Geological study= the type of ground is it being
>built on, how far down till bedrock ...ect....

Just pulled out my copy of Seattle Sourcebook. Assuming the map is still
cannon, the Arcology extends from the waterfront up to 4th ave, from Spring
to south King. This is an area I know well. It's where the monthly art
gallery walk is. Part of this area is referred as "Pioneer Square" since
that is where Seattle was founded.

Based on what I've seen of the area, and what I've heard/read of the
history of Seattle: that area is built on mud and fill. It's swampy stuff,
that was reason enough to move the city proper up the hills. If the
Arcology has 6 sub floors, the bottom 3 are below the water table (I'm
guessing). Aztechnology got the better choice of land. I live on Queen
Anne Hill (if you look at the map in the book, I live about 1.5 times the
distance between Seattle Center and the Arcology from the left edge of the
map). This hill is mostly dirt (according to contractors hired to work on
the foundations of my grandmother's house). It was tough for them to find
rock here on the hill.

Given the weight of the building, and the material it's built on, the
pilings the foundations rest on go very deep.

Point of observation - in the big quake that hit San Francisco in 90 (?),
their Marina district shook like jello. That is the same sort of material
the Arcology is built on. Any chance Renraku brought in a shaman with a
pet earth elemental to fix the ground before/during construction?

Disclaimer - I don't really know what I'm talking about.... But all our
big building are built elsewhere.
Message no. 37
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:34:50 +0000
>From: Graht <davidb@****.imcprint.com>
>You misread his post Lone :)
>
>Metahumans are *lower* than the people who are garbage collectors and
>gravediggers. It's plausible that the Renraku Archology not designed to
>accommodate trolls, as Renraku did not anticipate hiring trolls to work in
>the Archology.

Right, Sorry, comes of switching between workspaces to make it look like I'm
doing something useful in the middle of reading my mail.
But I still say that in a building designed to be totally self contained and
self sufficient they are going to make provision even for people who are
going to take ages to get a job shovelling dung, whose current career is
mucking out the lepers etc.
(Baldric types.)
They have their own sewage treatment plant as well...

Plus Renraku had to jump through hideous planning hoops to build the thing
in the first place didn't they? stuff like ensuring that sunlight reached
the buildings immediatly north of the thing...etc.
I'd guess that the UCAS government (under pressure from O.R.C. and others)
are going to have insisted that provision is made for Metas. If nothing else
because it's one of the few ways they can needle the Japanese. Even standard
building regs are going to have been modified to take giants into account by
the '50's surely.

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Message no. 38
From: zebulingod@*****.com (-Â¥-Zeb-Â¥-)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:45:02 -0700
"Lone Eagle" <loneeagle2061@*******.com> wrote:
>
> because it's one of the few ways they can needle the Japanese. Even
standard
> building regs are going to have been modified to take giants into account
by
> the '50's surely.
>

Giants?

ugh...

Zeb
Message no. 39
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:48:54 +0000
>From: Michael Brabitz <rifter72@*****.com>
>First question i'll ask is.
>1. Scale= Meters or Imperials (feet)

I'd say meters, that's what almost everything else in the game is measured
in.

>2. Design Standards. American (floor to ceiling
>hieghts 8.4" feet)
> Japanenes (floor to ceiling
>hieghts 7.5" feet)

American (see my previous post about the hoops.)

>3. Geological study= the type of ground is it being
>built on, how far down till bedrock ...ect....

it's built right on the edge of the sound, the generators are going to be at
least 50 meters below sea-level, a good chunk of that, if not most or all,
is going to be hacked from the living rock...
I wonder if the USGS might have that info online... back in a minute ;-)

<sound of five minutes searching>

Not in a nice friendly place like "I'm planning to build a huge pyramid on
the edge of the sound how deep is bedrock there and what is it" aaarrrgh!
geologists!!!! ;-)

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Message no. 40
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:54:49 +0000
>From: Damion Milliken <dam01@***.edu.au>
> > They may not have a particularly metahuman friendly recruitment policy
>but
> > they're hardly Humanis. You've also got to consider that the top floors,
> > the executive bits, are going to have higher ceilings than the office
> > spaces. The same with the mall and very definitely the manufacturing
>areas
> > and the reator hall; granted the reator hall is entirely underground but
> > has anyone ever seen the size of the turbine hall of a modern 440MW
>power
> > station? The expense involved in digging that out of the rock is
>seriously
> > whoaaa! Especially that close to the Sound.
>
>Remember, the three power plants for the arcology are fusion reactors, and
>so probably do not fall into the category of 2002 "modern" plants.

Yeah but they are putting out a hell of a lot more than 440MW so I'd put the
sizes as comparable, it's only been 61 years, I can't imagine the turbine
technology can be miniaturised by much in that time, you still rely on blade
area which means big machines.

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Message no. 41
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:12:43 +0200
According to Anders Swenson, on Thu, 19 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Don't forget the previous posting that cited nearly 3m tall floors. 4m?

The previous post that stated 3 m tall floors was mine, if I'm not mistaken.
A building 969 m high with 320 floors gives 3 m per floor, including the
actual floor thickness and all that. If you assume 2.25 to 2.5 m between
floor and ceiling (which is plenty of room for a human, elf or ork) that
gives enough space for floor thickness, ducting etc. How many times do I have
to repeat this? :)

--
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I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Message no. 42
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:20:37 +0200
According to Lone Eagle, on Thu, 19 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> I have to say that I don't put trolls at 3 meters, I think shorter, just
> my preference...

2.7 m is what SR has always told us they are, on average. This is a 10%
difference with how many people apparently see them, but if 2.7 m is the
average, then 3-m trolls should certainly be possible (and taller, too).
SR3 puts the average height of a human at 1.7 m, which should make it
fairly obvious to you, Lone Eagle, that people grow more than 10% taller
than that :) (Unless you were wearing very thick soles at GCUK, of
course...)

--
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I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 43
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:25:51 +0200
According to Damion Milliken, on Fri, 20 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> ...Or woven monowire... <ducks under Gurth's stairs>

For old times sake:

TTTTTTTT
TT HH HH
TT HH HH WW WW
TT HHHHHH WW WW AA
TT HH HH WW WW AAAA PPPP
HH HH WW WW WW AA AA PP PP ****
WW WW AAAAAAAA PPPP **No**
AA AA PP **!No!**
PP **!!No!!**
**Bad!!!**
**!Bad!!**
**!!Bad!**
* **!You!!**
* * **shudda**
* * * * * * * **known!**
* * **better**
* X // * **!than!**
* // * **that**
* // * ******
* ** *
* * * * * ** * * ****
* * * * * **..**
* * * **/\**
* * ****
* * * *
(Carp: circa 1864) * *

--
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I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
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Message no. 44
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:36:55 +0000
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
>2.7 m is what SR has always told us they are, on average. This is a 10%
>difference with how many people apparently see them, but if 2.7 m is the
>average, then 3-m trolls should certainly be possible (and taller, too).
>SR3 puts the average height of a human at 1.7 m, which should make it
>fairly obvious to you, Lone Eagle, that people grow more than 10% taller
>than that :) (Unless you were wearing very thick soles at GCUK, of
>course...)

But I put them at 2.3m - 2.5m average, it means that when you calculate
their weight you don't _need_ to beef up the suspension on your car to
accommodate them. Yes you'll bottom out but you don't pop the mountings just
because they get in. It isn't a huge change but it does mean that trolls
don't need much more in the way of modifications to their enviroment than
dwarves in order to function in society.

And no, no hyper thick soles...
Stilts!!! ;-)

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Message no. 45
From: pentaj2@****.edu (Penta John C)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:44:30 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
Date: Friday, September 20, 2002 5:25 am
Subject: Re: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1

> According to Damion Milliken, on Fri, 20 Sep 2002 the word on the
> street was...
>
> > ...Or woven monowire... <ducks under Gurth's stairs>
>
> For old times sake:

<snip carp>

Aww....I'm home...:-D The carp are flying, the stairs are filled
like a sardine can...

Meemories......
Message no. 46
From: bd_92@*****.com (b d)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 06:07:48 -0700 (PDT)
> Plus Renraku had to jump through hideous planning
> hoops to build the thing
> in the first place didn't they? stuff like ensuring
> that sunlight reached
> the buildings immediatly north of the thing...etc.
> I'd guess that the UCAS government (under pressure
> from O.R.C. and others)
> are going to have insisted that provision is made
> for Metas. If nothing else
> because it's one of the few ways they can needle the
> Japanese. Even standard
> building regs are going to have been modified to
> take giants into account by
> the '50's surely.
>


I just checked the book again..i got done reading it.
Less thatn 1% of the population in the Arc is trolls.
Therefore I would say any accomdation for ANY
metahuman is out. The cieling of 8' would work and
provide enough for a dropdown and maintence. I would
suggest that they run allot of their piping and
conduit along the cieling as the whole place is one
big rubix modular cube...

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Message no. 47
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:02:40 +0200
According to Lone Eagle, on Fri, 20 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> But I put them at 2.3m - 2.5m average, it means that when you calculate
> their weight you don't _need_ to beef up the suspension on your car to
> accommodate them.

It's important to state house "rules" like that when discussing stuff such
as floor-to-ceiling sizes of SR buildings, IMHO. If trolls vary in size as
much as humans do, and 2.7 m is average, then there must be trolls ranging
from about 2.5 to 3.1 m or so, at a rough guess. (Even though 1.7 m is a
very short average for humans, that's the figure we have to work with, I
suppose.)

--
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-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 48
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:45:43 -0600
At 11:12 AM 9/20/2002 +0200, Gurth wrote:
>According to Anders Swenson, on Thu, 19 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...
>
> > Don't forget the previous posting that cited nearly 3m tall floors. 4m?
>
>The previous post that stated 3 m tall floors was mine, if I'm not mistaken.
>A building 969 m high with 320 floors gives 3 m per floor, including the
>actual floor thickness and all that. If you assume 2.25 to 2.5 m between
>floor and ceiling (which is plenty of room for a human, elf or ork) that
>gives enough space for floor thickness, ducting etc. How many times do I have
>to repeat this? :)

Four more times! ;)

Ha! I figured it out!

What about the floors that people live on? The Japanese are notorious for
"economized" living quarters. And cyberpunk fictionionized Japanese are
the creators of coffin motels.

Combine the two and you could recover space by making living quarters
floors that are shorter than standard (kind of like the short floor in
Being John Malkovitch, but with coffin motel rooms instead of offices).

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--
Message no. 49
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:29:38 +0200
According to Graht, on Fri, 20 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Four more times! ;)

Given a total building height of 969 meters, and 320 floors, each floor is
slightly over 3 m high.

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I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 50
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:30:22 +0200
According to Graht, on Fri, 20 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Four more times! ;)

If the whole building is 969 meters tall, and you assume about 3 meters are
needed per floor, you get 320 floors -- which is exactly what the Seattle
Sourcebook and RA:S say there are.

--
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-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 51
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:30:53 +0200
According to Graht, on Fri, 20 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Four more times! ;)

At 969 meters total building height, with 320 floors, each floor requires 3
meters.

--
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I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 52
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:31:52 +0200
According to Graht, on Fri, 20 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Four more times! ;)

I think I mentioned once or twice before that the total building is 969
meters high, and that it has 320 floors. This gives, rounded to the nearest
whole meter, 3 meters for each floor.

--
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I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 53
From: 520074903613-0001@********.de (Thorger_SÃŒnert)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 13:43:09 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Graht <davidb@****.imcprint.com>
> What about the floors that people live on? The Japanese are notorious for
> "economized" living quarters. And cyberpunk fictionionized Japanese are
> the creators of coffin motels.

Coffin motels are already a reality in Japan
MfG Thorger Sünert
Message no. 54
From: lordmountainlion@***.rr.com (Scott Peterson)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 18:29:31 -0600
> That dosen't have to be true. I came to the
> concvlusion that the
> interior progression of floors would be more like a
> stepped pyramid,
> within the smooth pyramid of the exterior. But we
> don't have to map
> each interior floor, at least at first.
> --Anders

I'd even gague to zay a ziggeraut would be more
likely. 340 floors all scaling upwards...for exmaple i
would take the casino out in vegas to be the best
example of this design and go from there..

If its a stepped pyramid, why not have the wireing and pipeing in the outer
slopes of the walls, and have minor feeding tubs into the various rooms. I
mean I had a guy who built a house use 1/4 in tubing insied the concreete to
pump hot watter to warm the floors durring the winter. 2 cm floors could be
used them. The only problem would be the structural load bearing for
trolls.

Scott
Message no. 55
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 11:41:55 +0200
According to Scott Peterson, on Sun, 22 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> If its a stepped pyramid, why not have the wireing and pipeing in the
> outer slopes of the walls, and have minor feeding tubs into the various
> rooms. I mean I had a guy who built a house use 1/4 in tubing insied the
> concreete to pump hot watter to warm the floors durring the winter.

This is quite a normal thing to do around here for heating tiled floors.
However, the capacity would be far too small for anything else, and if you
install a lot of pipes to increase that capacity, it's going to cost far more
than one thick pipe will.

--
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I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 56
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 13:52:33 +0000
>From: "Scott Peterson" <lordmountainlion@***.rr.com>
>If its a stepped pyramid, why not have the wireing and pipeing in the outer
>slopes of the walls, and have minor feeding tubs into the various rooms. I
>mean I had a guy who built a house use 1/4 in tubing insied the concreete
>to
>pump hot watter to warm the floors durring the winter. 2 cm floors could
>be
>used them. The only problem would be the structural load bearing for
>trolls.

The outer walls are all glass IIRC, allowing sunlight onto the gardens, all
of the floors (at least all the residential and office floors) have gardens
at the perimeter.

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Message no. 57
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:17:08 -0600
At 11:31 AM 9/21/2002 +0200, Gurth wrote:
>According to Graht, on Fri, 20 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...
>
> > Four more times! ;)
>
>I think I mentioned once or twice before that the total building is 969
>meters high, and that it has 320 floors. This gives, rounded to the nearest
>whole meter, 3 meters for each floor.

[snip: the other three replies]

...I guess I did ask for that didn't I ;p

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--

Further Reading

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Thwap!