Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Kismet kismet_sr@*****.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:30:42 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 1 I was wondering just how micro-managed Saeder Krupp?
Does Lofwyr really know everything that goes on in his
company, or is that just a GM fantasy? How do you play
it in your games?

Kismet

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From:	alex.yang alex.yang@*************.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:38:26 -0500

Message no. 2 -----Original Message-----
From: Kismet <kismet_sr@*****.com>

I was wondering just how micro-managed Saeder Krupp?
Does Lofwyr really know everything that goes on in his
company, or is that just a GM fantasy? How do you play
it in your games?

With the entire team on SK's payroll (feel free to browse by my campaign
site and check out the characters and the session summaries:
home.earthlink.net/~yangalex) <http://home.earthlink.net/~yangalex)> , I've
been giving this matter quite some thought. First, my Lofwyr favors elves.
From commercial lending to industrial product development, his top managers
are often aggressive, self-guided, type-A personality elves. Unlike Ares
execs, SK managers take their cue from Lofwyr himself and are more
revenue-driven than profit-driven, willing to spend money (and incur losses)
in order to expand their spheres of influence. If Ares has the efficient
Japanese business model of the 1980s, SK is GE/Phillips on crack, dabbling
in everything.

These managers foster close relationships with the Resources Adjustment
Department to further their own goals, and believe fervently that success
will be rewarded by Lofwyr himself. Enamored with his nigh-tangible cult of
personality, Lofwyr actually spends half his time managing his company
(materializing in an executive's office and conducting one-on-ones as the
whim strikes him) and the other half thinking about the rest of the world.
Should Lofwyr need to interact with mundanes, a proxy is often assigned.
However, he always handles contact with the awakened personally (visits to
the Tir, talking to other dragons, chatting with those who've suffered
through Harlequin's Back). He is a GM personified, able to warp reality to
his will but preferring to let events take their course.

Alex

From:	Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:51:16 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 3 Kismet wrote:
> I was wondering just how micro-managed Saeder Krupp?
> Does Lofwyr really know everything that goes on in his
> company, or is that just a GM fantasy?

On a day-to-day basis he probably doesn't know everything. But if something
cought his attention, you can bet he'd know everything he wanted to within
a day.

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:12:38 +0200

Message no. 4 According to Kismet, at 6:30 on 17 Sep 99, the word on
the street was...

> I was wondering just how micro-managed Saeder Krupp?
> Does Lofwyr really know everything that goes on in his
> company, or is that just a GM fantasy? How do you play
> it in your games?

I haven't really used S-K in my games, but I imagine Lofwyr involves
himself with random details of the company (after studying how they fit
into the whole, so he doesn't mess them up unnecessarily) to make people
think he manages _everything_ himself.

(FWIW, it reminds me of Napoleon Bonaparte, who had an inventory made of
French coastal defenses, and then wrote to the officers who performed the
survey that they'd forgotten some guns somewhere.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vraag niet om de terugkeer
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:14:44 EDT

Message no. 5 In a message dated 9/17/1999 8:24:32 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
kismet_sr@*****.com writes:

> I was wondering just how micro-managed Saeder Krupp?
> Does Lofwyr really know everything that goes on in his
> company, or is that just a GM fantasy? How do you play
> it in your games

We usually give any event an "Impact Rating" of sorts, depending on the
"impact" the run has on things. We give Lofty a Perception test
(complimented by his "Business Sense" skill ;-), with a base target number
of an "8", minus twice the impact rating of the run, using the impact values
in the older Corporate Shadowfiles. The other, long term option, is that
Lofty reads probably *every* managers report that is written, so he probably
does know just about, if not all, that is going on after a week or so has
passed on the outside.

-K

From:	Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:49:24 -0400

Message no. 6 Richard wrote:
> On a day-to-day basis he probably doesn't know everything. But if
> something
> cought his attention, you can bet he'd know everything he wanted to within
> a day.

IIRC, there is a good sequence in "Technobabel", where Lofwyr is casually
curled up in a large hall observing a wall sized display with loads of
information scrolling across it. The SK representative on the corporate
court reported directly to him and seemed to be in fear and in awe of the
dragon. I think that most of his managerial types share the same sentiment.

;)

Smilin' Jack

From:	Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:41:01 -0500

Message no. 7 Kismet wrote:
/I was wondering just how micro-managed Saeder Krupp?
/Does Lofwyr really know everything that goes on in his
/company, or is that just a GM fantasy? How do you play
/it in your games?

Everyone *believes* that Lofwyr knows everything. No one is willing to
test him (would you?).

In fact that isn't the case. However, if Lofwyr wants to know about
something it doesn't take him long to find it <EGMG>.

That's how it works in my campaign.

-Graht
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3
Geek Code: GCS d-( ) s++:->+ a@ C++>$ US P L >++ E? W++>+++ !N o-- K-
w+ o? M- VMS? PS+(++) PE+(++) Y+ !PGP t+(++) 5+(++) X++(+++) R+>$ tv+b++ DI++++
D+(++) G e+>+++ h--->---- r+++ y+++
http://home.att.net/~Graht
"My assistant, Bob the dinasaur, will now demonstrate
how to give a cat a 'fur wedgie.'"

From:	Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:08:03 -0400

Message no. 8 > I was wondering just how micro-managed Saeder Krupp?
> Does Lofwyr really know everything that goes on in his
> company, or is that just a GM fantasy? How do you play
> it in your games?

I haven't really used S-K in my games, but I imagine Lofwyr involves
himself with random details of the company (after studying how they
fit
into the whole, so he doesn't mess them up unnecessarily) to make
people
think he manages _everything_ himself.

(FWIW, it reminds me of Napoleon Bonaparte, who had an inventory made
of
French coastal defenses, and then wrote to the officers who performed
the
survey that they'd forgotten some guns somewhere.)

At my most skeptical, I'll say the dragon knows everything at the top
tiers of the company, and less and less as the ladder goes down. But
then again, if Dunky could engineer what he did, then I have no doubts
that Lofwyr is capable of running an entire megacorp by himself (on
the business end, in any case). I mean, Lofwyr *is* one of the most
powerful beings on the planet as well as one of the most intelligent.

-----
AK404

http://freespeech.org/ak404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"Just because you win doesn't mean you're right."

From:	abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:47:04 -0400

Message no. 9 > > I was wondering just how micro-managed Saeder Krupp?
> > Does Lofwyr really know everything that goes on in his
> > company, or is that just a GM fantasy? How do you play
> > it in your games
>
> <snip>
> The other, long term option, is that
> Lofty reads probably *every* managers report that is written, so he
probably
> does know just about, if not all, that is going on after a week or so has
> passed on the outside.

Who think Lofwyr has to READ manager's reports? With Dunky dead, we're
talking about perhaps the oldest, most powerful being on the planet. Does he
need to read the newspaper? Not only does he know what's going on by
anticipating the patterns of society, but he can always astrally project
around, or just READ PEOPLE'S MINDS!

Remember, K., this is a Great Western Dragon we're talking about! :) [And
does anyone actually believe the attributes the book gives Great Dragons?
You know that book was printed by FASA, well-known to be a wholly-owned
subsidiary of S-K America, a division of S-K Europe.]

Just a thought.

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:14:18 +0200

Message no. 10 According to abortion_engine, at 11:47 on 18 Sep 99, the word on
the street was...

> Remember, K., this is a Great Western Dragon we're talking about! :) [And
> does anyone actually believe the attributes the book gives Great Dragons?
> You know that book was printed by FASA, well-known to be a wholly-owned
> subsidiary of S-K America, a division of S-K Europe.]

What's really scary is that one of my players claims he once saw a German
truck with a logo reading "S. Krupp" on the side :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vraag niet om de terugkeer
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:37:03 -0400

Message no. 11 > > Remember, K., this is a Great Western Dragon we're talking about! :)
[And
> > does anyone actually believe the attributes the book gives Great
Dragons?
> > You know that book was printed by FASA, well-known to be a wholly-owned
> > subsidiary of S-K America, a division of S-K Europe.]
>
> What's really scary is that one of my players claims he once saw a German
> truck with a logo reading "S. Krupp" on the side :)
>
Well, not too surprising. [Disturbing, but not surprising. :) ] Remember,
not only is Krupp a fairly common German last name, but Krupp is a major,
major German corporation. During WW2, Krupp pretty much owned the entire
German war machine. And they're still an incredibly large corporation. If I
were Lofwyr, and I wanted to live in the same area I lived in 6,000 years
ago, I'd pick S-K to buy.

From:	Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:55:58 +1000

Message no. 12 >> Remember, K., this is a Great Western Dragon we're talking about! :) [And
>> does anyone actually believe the attributes the book gives Great Dragons?
>> You know that book was printed by FASA, well-known to be a wholly-owned
>> subsidiary of S-K America, a division of S-K Europe.]
>
>What's really scary is that one of my players claims he once saw a German
>truck with a logo reading "S. Krupp" on the side :)

Interestingly enough, Barbie was checking these out the other night, and
found that the following Internet domains are already registered:

saeder-krupp.com
shiawase.com
aztechnology.com
ares.com
renraku.com
wuxing.com
novatech.com

Mitsuhama and Yamatetsu were both free, and I'm not sure about Cross.

The truly freaky thing... the contact email listed on the NIC for
saeder-krupp.com was... Lofwyr@************.Com

Nice to see someone has a sense of humour, anyway. :-)

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr *

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:31:04 +0200

Message no. 13 According to abortion_engine, at 13:37 on 18 Sep 99, the word on
the street was...

> Well, not too surprising. [Disturbing, but not surprising. :) ] Remember,
> not only is Krupp a fairly common German last name, but Krupp is a major,
> major German corporation.

They _were_ a major, major corporation. IIRC, after WWII they were
dismanteled by the allies.

> During WW2, Krupp pretty much owned the entire German war machine.

Again, not quite... If you'd said "During WW1" you'd have been much closer
to the truth.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vraag niet om de terugkeer
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:16:02 -0700

Message no. 14 On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:55:58 +1000 Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*********.html.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> Interestingly enough, Barbie was checking these out the other night,
and
> found that the following Internet domains are already registered:
>
> saeder-krupp.com
> shiawase.com
> aztechnology.com
> ares.com
> renraku.com
> wuxing.com
> novatech.com
<SNIP>

Which of these haVE WWW. in front of them? Do not assume that all start
with www. mine is http://members.xoom.com/D_Ghost/ (Don't bother it
still just has SR T-shirt submissions :)

Additionally, the renraku and wuxings didn't exist with or without the
www and there was no contact address given on the page for
www.saeder-krupp.com

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

From:	Dvixen dvixen@****.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:03:25 -0700

Message no. 15 ><SNIP>
>> Interestingly enough, Barbie was checking these out the other night,
>and
>> found that the following Internet domains are already registered:
>>
>> saeder-krupp.com
>> shiawase.com
>> aztechnology.com
>> ares.com
>> renraku.com
>> wuxing.com
>> novatech.com
><SNIP>

>Which of these haVE WWW. in front of them? Do not assume that all start
>with www. mine is http://members.xoom.com/D_Ghost/ (Don't bother it
>still just has SR T-shirt submissions :)

Actually, that is simply a matter of setting up for it to recognize the URL
with or without the WWW.

>Additionally, the renraku and wuxings didn't exist with or without the
>www and there was no contact address given on the page for
>www.saeder-krupp.com

They are registered, they simply don't have web presence. Often it could be
because of the 'choose your email domain', but not always. What tickles is
the contact email for Saeder-krupp.com, it's lofwyr@************.com.
Wuxing is registered to a company in Hong Kong.
--
Dvixen - dvixen@****.com =-=-= Gallery - http://members.home.com/dvixen
Herkimer's Lair - http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair
"What's your sign?" - "Trespassers will be shot."
Comments/Questions accepted, flames dropped into the abyss.

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:30:01 -0700

Message no. 16 On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:03:25 -0700 Dvixen <dvixen@****.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> >Which of these haVE WWW. in front of them? Do not assume that all
start
> >with www. mine is http://members.xoom.com/D_Ghost/ (Don't bother it
> >still just has SR T-shirt submissions :)

> Actually, that is simply a matter of setting up for it to recognize the
URL
> with or without the WWW.

I am almost certain that you are wrong (or that I misunderstand what you
mean by setting it up). I have mis-typed an URL assuming that the www
hand been mistakenly left off only to get the wrong page at least once;
probably more. The reason I am not more vehemont is that I don't have
such a URL handy. I can saw that the URL I gave above WON'T work with
www. in front.

<SNIP>
> They are registered, they simply don't have web presence. Often it
could be
> because of the 'choose your email domain', but not always. What tickles
is
> the contact email for Saeder-krupp.com, it's
> lofwyr@************.com.
> Wuxing is registered to a company in Hong Kong.

How do you find this out when it's not on the web page?

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

From:	Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:43:10 +1000

Message no. 17 >> saeder-krupp.com
>> shiawase.com
>> aztechnology.com
>> ares.com
>> renraku.com
>> wuxing.com
>> novatech.com
><SNIP>
>
>Which of these haVE WWW. in front of them? Do not assume that all start
>with www. mine is http://members.xoom.com/D_Ghost/ (Don't bother it
>still just has SR T-shirt submissions :)
>
>Additionally, the renraku and wuxings didn't exist with or without the
>www and there was no contact address given on the page for
>www.saeder-krupp.com

It doesn't matter whether or not the sites are actually up online; the
domains are registered. That was my point.

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr *

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:15:21 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 18 > > I was wondering just how micro-managed Saeder Krupp? Does Lofwyr
really know everything that goes on in his company, or is that just a
GM fantasy? How do you play it in your games?
>
> I haven't really used S-K in my games, but I imagine Lofwyr involves
himself with random details of the company (after studying how they fit
into the whole, so he doesn't mess them up unnecessarily) to make
people think he manages _everything_ himself.
>
> (FWIW, it reminds me of Napoleon Bonaparte, who had an inventory made
of French coastal defenses, and then wrote to the officers who
performed the survey that they'd forgotten some guns somewhere.)
>
> At my most skeptical, I'll say the dragon knows everything at the top
tiers of the company, and less and less as the ladder goes down. But
then again, if Dunky could engineer what he did, then I have no doubts
that Lofwyr is capable of running an entire megacorp by himself (on the
business end, in any case). I mean, Lofwyr *is* one of the most
powerful beings on the planet as well as one of the most intelligent.
> AK404

He probably has the brains, but that doesn't mean squat. The deciding
factor is TIME.

Lofwyr MAY be a great dragon and he MAY be the most intelligent being
on the planet, but there are still only 24 hours in the day and even HE
has to sleep sometime.

Even if he didn't, it'd be a physical impossibility for one being to
absorb all the data concerning the largest multinational corporation in
the world. He simply would not have the amount of time required.

He certainly could do it at a strategic level and I can certainly see
him cultivating the appearance of omniscience (whose idea was that?),
but at the kind of micromanagerial level that most people seem to be
talking about? Sheer impossibility (at least, without a force 1000
"absorb data" spell or the like :) ).

*Doc' wonders, for some reason, why there are no anti-fat spells in Shadowrun...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:16:24 +0200

Message no. 19 According to dghost@****.com, at 18:16 on 19 Sep 99, the word on
the street was...

> Which of these haVE WWW. in front of them?

I'd guess none of them, all of them, or some of them :) I don't know all
that much about these sorts of things, but AFAIK you simply register the
domain, such as novatech.com, and then when you get it up and running you
install some software for the WWW server -- which usually gets called
"www" to make it clear to everyone what it is, but you can give it any
name you want -- "members," "home," or anything else you fancy.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vraag niet om de terugkeer
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject:	SK Question
Date:	Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:34:05 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 20 As a side note, and because I'm bored:

I've been to aztechnology.com before... I thought that was
something different a while back, but it currently appears to be a
site for AZ Technology, not Aztechnology. :( They used to have a
links page, labelled "Other Aztechnologies". This, amusingly enough,
did have the place I was trying to reach at the time.

wuxing.com was registered on 11-Oct-96. Does that predate
PoaD, or any other reference to Wuxing?

saeder-krupp is registered to someone in germany with a cute
e-mail address.
Saeder-Krupp (SAEDER-KRUPP-DOM)
Hoekenbruegger Weg 46
Kirchlengern, 32278
GERMANY
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Nienaber, Meik (MN4608) lofwyr@************.COM

ares, and novatech, and shiawase appear to have come up with
the name independently, and have no SR content. (They're not exactly
inspired) Shiawase, as many of you know, means "happy".

renraku is registered, but doesn't have any more info. :(
Registrant:
Brian Bennett (RENRAKU-DOM)
2025 San Luis Ave #2
Mountain View, CA 94043
US

"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
> According to dghost@****.com, at 18:16 on 19 Sep 99, the word on
> the street was...
>
> > Which of these haVE WWW. in front of them?
>
> I'd guess none of them, all of them, or some of them :)

You register, say, html.com. You then need to put up a
machine to do nameserver requests, so it will take all requests for
anything ending in html.com and returns the 4 number address.
(shadowrun.html,com, for instance, returns 206.246.229.81)

I don't know the windows equivalents (they're generally little
utilities people write that have the same name and are at
winfiles.com), but from unix, you can get the info pretty easily.

If you want to as the nameserver for the 4 number address, use
nslookup. If you want the registration info, use whois.

Mark

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer