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From:	Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:22:23 -0500

Message no. 1 OK, here's the situation: I'm playing off a combat mage for the first
time, and I have a few Force 5 & 6 spells in my directory, and for the
most part, they're dangerous. What I need to know is: Exactly how bad
is my mage?

Force 5 spells, 5 Spell Pool, and Sorcery 6. Exactly how do I start
flinging spells around? Do I use Sorcery + Spell Pool, with the Force
of the spell being the TN# of the target to resist, and how do I
determine the damage code of a spell? Is a Force 5 Manaball a M, S,
D, or anything I want it to be? Can I simply throw a D spell, resist
the Deadly Drain, and that's it?

-----
Your favorite anime sucks.

Angelkiller 404

http://www.mindspring.com/~angelkiller404/
http://www.gibbed.com/parasiteve/

ICQ: 2157053

From:	Damon Harper nomad74@*******.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:59:52 PST

Message no. 2 >OK, here's the situation: I'm playing off a combat mage for the first
>time, and I have a few Force 5 & 6 spells in my directory, and for the
>most part, they're dangerous.

Deckers and malls have directories. Mana-slingers have grimiores,
for future reference. Speaking of, you may want to read the magic
chapter in whichever SR book you are playing out of. Most of my
knowledge comes from SR2, so if I missed something in 3, feel free to
correct me.

>What I need to know is: Exactly how bad is my mage?

To quote Mr. Owl: "Well, let's find out..."

>
>Force 5 spells, 5 Spell Pool, and Sorcery 6.

Sounds pretty average. Which is good. Weak mages suck, unless you
can avoid combat- which can be it's own fun sometimes. :)

>Exactly how do I start flinging spells around? Do I use Sorcery +
>Spell Pool, with the Force of the spell being the TN# of the target >to
resist, and how do I determine the damage code of a spell?

Okay, one thing at a time. You roll the number of dice equal to the
force of the spell, plus whatever magic pool you want to use. For
example, if you cast force 5 fireball spell, plus three from your magic
pool, you'd roll a total of eight dice (5 + 3).
Your target number is determined in the spell's description, most
combat spells target a subject's body or willpower attribute.
Yes, their TN to resist is the force of the spell.
The damage code should be in the spell description (either L, M, S,
or D), combined with the force of the spell. A force 5 manabolt, for
example would be 5S (I think). It may not sound like much, but
remember- armor don't count(unless it's an elemental effect vs. impact
armor, IIRC).

>Is a Force 5 Manaball a M, S,D, or anything I want it to be?

Most area-effect spells are M, IIRC. Again, read the spell
description.

>Can I simply throw a D spell, resist the Deadly Drain, and that's it?

Heh heh... it's not as easy as it sounds.

Now, before you ask anymore questions, you really should read the
magic chapter. If you are using SR2 rules, read the Grimoire as well.
Also, if someone else in your group knows the magic rules, have them
help you out. I hate to admit it, but if I didn't have a GM who knew
the ins and outs of magic in SR when I started playing, I'd probably
still be mana-illiterate. Hope this helps.

-Damon Harper
"But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive."
-Shakespeare, King Henry V
________________________________________________________
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From:	GMPax@*.com GMPax@*.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:05:45 EST

Message no. 3 In a message dated 3/12/99 12:37:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
angelkiller404@**********.com writes:

> OK, here's the situation: I'm playing off a combat mage for the first
> time, and I have a few Force 5 & 6 spells in my directory, and for the
> most part, they're dangerous. What I need to know is: Exactly how bad
> is my mage?
>
> Force 5 spells, 5 Spell Pool, and Sorcery 6. Exactly how do I start
> flinging spells around? Do I use Sorcery + Spell Pool, with the Force
> of the spell being the TN# of the target to resist, and how do I
> determine the damage code of a spell? Is a Force 5 Manaball a M, S,
> D, or anything I want it to be? Can I simply throw a D spell, resist
> the Deadly Drain, and that's it?
>

The base number of dice you use is Sorcery skill. Spell Pool dice canbe used
either to resist drain, aid in casting the spell, and so on, rather like
Combat Pool dice.

The spell's Force is like the power of a Gun or Knife; yes, it is the TN for
the target t resist the spell. The damage level is what you CHOOSE to go for,
at the moment of casting. That's also the basis for you DRAIN level.

You seem to have it down pretty well, so far. :-)

Sean
GM Pax

From:	GMPax@*.com GMPax@*.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:08:42 EST

Message no. 4 In a message dated 3/12/99 1:01:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
nomad74@*******.com writes:

> Okay, one thing at a time. You roll the number of dice equal to the
> force of the spell, plus whatever magic pool you want to use. For
> example, if you cast force 5 fireball spell, plus three from your magic
> pool, you'd roll a total of eight dice (5 + 3).

Er, in SR2. You missed something: s/he has Spell Pool 5, and Sorcery 6.
Obviously speaking, that's NOT Shadowrun 2. :-) The mage in question is
Shadowrun THREE, and the dice rolled for the spell success test are SORCERY
dice. :-)

Sean
GM Pax

From:	Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:15:19 +1100

Message no. 5 At 12:22 12/03/99 -0500, Angelkiller 404 wrote:
>OK, here's the situation: I'm playing off a combat mage for the first
>time, and I have a few Force 5 & 6 spells in my directory, and for the
>most part, they're dangerous. What I need to know is: Exactly how bad
>is my mage?

A solid, kick-ass spell-slinger if you ask me. Although this also depends on
the particular spells the mage knows.

>Force 5 spells, 5 Spell Pool, and Sorcery 6. Exactly how do I start
>flinging spells around? Do I use Sorcery + Spell Pool, with the Force
>of the spell being the TN# of the target to resist, and how do I
>determine the damage code of a spell? Is a Force 5 Manaball a M, S,
>D, or anything I want it to be? Can I simply throw a D spell, resist
>the Deadly Drain, and that's it?

It's as you say: Roll the Sorcery dice plus as many Spell Pool dice you want,
up to Sorcery. The target number is specified in the spell description. If it's
a damaging spell, the target resists with a resistance target number equal to
the force of the spell. In other spells the spell force is used in the
calculation of the effect. Be careful of manipulation spell thresholds. The
threshold number of successes must be equaled or exceeded else the spell fails.
All damaging spells have a variable base damage level. As you say, the caster
chooses the damage level and resists the corresponding drain.

Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.

From:	Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:41:05 -0500

Message no. 6 >>OK, here's the situation: I'm playing off a combat mage for the
first
>>time, and I have a few Force 5 & 6 spells in my directory, and for
the
>>most part, they're dangerous. What I need to know is: Exactly how
bad
>>is my mage?
>
>A solid, kick-ass spell-slinger if you ask me. Although this also
depends on
>the particular spells the mage knows.
>
>>Force 5 spells, 5 Spell Pool, and Sorcery 6. Exactly how do I start
>>flinging spells around? Do I use Sorcery + Spell Pool, with the
Force
>>of the spell being the TN# of the target to resist, and how do I
>>determine the damage code of a spell? Is a Force 5 Manaball a M, S,
>>D, or anything I want it to be? Can I simply throw a D spell,
resist
>>the Deadly Drain, and that's it?
>
>It's as you say: Roll the Sorcery dice plus as many Spell Pool dice
you want,
>up to Sorcery. The target number is specified in the spell
description. If it's
>a damaging spell, the target resists with a resistance target number
equal to
>the force of the spell. In other spells the spell force is used in
the
>calculation of the effect. Be careful of manipulation spell
thresholds. The
>threshold number of successes must be equaled or exceeded else the
spell fails.
>All damaging spells have a variable base damage level. As you say,
the caster
>chooses the damage level and resists the corresponding drain.
>
OK, so what about power foci and the like? Am I to understand that
power foci can add to any number of dice my spell pool up to its
Force? So wouldn't that mean (using the previous example) that if I
was using a bonded Power Foci 2, I could smack a target with up to 13
dice? I mean, from this viewpoint, a Mana Bolt at 2S would be a
mop-up spell from hell simply because the Drain is so low and I'd toss
more dice at the target than possibly has! (say, 9 dice at a target
with a Body of 3)

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:31:14 +0100

Message no. 7 According to Angelkiller 404, at 0:22 on 12 Mar 99, the word on
the street was...

> Force 5 spells, 5 Spell Pool, and Sorcery 6. Exactly how do I start
> flinging spells around? Do I use Sorcery + Spell Pool, with the Force
> of the spell being the TN# of the target to resist, and how do I
> determine the damage code of a spell? Is a Force 5 Manaball a M, S,
> D, or anything I want it to be? Can I simply throw a D spell, resist
> the Deadly Drain, and that's it?

Exactly. You choose to cast a spell, then select the Damage Level (if it's
one that causes damage), and roll your Sorcery skill plus Spell Pool dice
against the TN specified in the spell's description. Then resist Drain.

--
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From:	Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:34:52 +1100

Message no. 8 At 02:41 12/03/99 -0500, Angelkiller 404 wrote:
>OK, so what about power foci and the like? Am I to understand that
>power foci can add to any number of dice my spell pool up to its

SR3 does not state that power and spell foci dice are added to the spell pool,
though doing so would limit the number of extra dice that can be applied to a
Sorcery test (max spell pool dice added to the roll is equal to Sorcery). In
Sorcery, these foci dice can be used anywhere that spell pool dice can be used.
I use foci dice as another pool independent of, but used in the same way as,
the spell pool.

>Force? So wouldn't that mean (using the previous example) that if I
>was using a bonded Power Foci 2, I could smack a target with up to 13
>dice? I mean, from this viewpoint, a Mana Bolt at 2S would be a
>mop-up spell from hell simply because the Drain is so low and I'd toss
>more dice at the target than possibly has! (say, 9 dice at a target
>with a Body of 3)

You most certainly can get this number of dice rolled if you don't assume the
foci dice are made part of the spell pool. As I said before, he's a kick-ass
mage. It's a bit like the sammy with an Assault Rifle skill of six and a
customized FN HAR in terms of damage-dealing potential. However, in your
example above, give the target an above average willpower and an allied
magician or earth elemental using spell defence - the result might not be as
perfectly clear cut as you think. Further, in your example above, unless your
magician has a Willpower of 6 and some karma for re-rolls, he'll still be
taking drain, and that's a slippery slope to take in the middle of a battle.

Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.

From:	David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:17:49 -0700 (MST)

Message no. 9 Angelkiller 404 wrote:
/
/ OK, here's the situation: I'm playing off a combat mage for the first
/ time, and I have a few Force 5 & 6 spells in my directory, and for the
/ most part, they're dangerous. What I need to know is: Exactly how bad
/ is my mage?

Honestly, it doesn't matter what you have, it depends on what you do
with it. I've seen PCs loaded for bear do the dumbest things and go
down hard. I've also seen underarmed PCs display tactical brilliance
and take down foes that I didn't thing they had a chance against (I'm
never gonna forget the game where the dragon had to run away).

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
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From:	Damon Harper nomad74@*******.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:25:59 PST

Message no. 10 >Er, in SR2. You missed something: s/he has Spell Pool 5, and Sorcery
6.
>Obviously speaking, that's NOT Shadowrun 2. :-) The mage in question
is
>Shadowrun THREE, and the dice rolled for the spell success test are
SORCERY
>dice. :-)

Yeah, I guess I missed something. I guess I'm an obsolete model now,
huh? One of these days I'll get around to finish reading SR3... like
maybe when my SR2 book is destroyed. :)
Sorry for the confusion.

-Damon Harper
"But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive."
-Shakespeare, King Henry V
________________________________________________________
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From:	GMPax@*.com GMPax@*.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:33:45 EST

Message no. 11 In a message dated 3/12/99 11:19:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dbuehrer@******.carl.org writes:

> Honestly, it doesn't matter what you have, it depends on what you do
> with it. I've seen PCs loaded for bear do the dumbest things and go
> down hard. I've also seen underarmed PCs display tactical brilliance
> and take down foes that I didn't thing they had a chance against (I'm
> never gonna forget the game where the dragon had to run away).

Darn right.

Had the heavy combat-sammie in a run, early in the campaign doing the
Harlequin adventures (the GM had been a playtester for them, IIRC; he's the
one whose character HAS Excaliber, per the last clause in the Big D's will, or
so he says. In a trunk in his basement! :-).

The run against those elves, the wetwork? There I am, doing the ex-military-
man tactical awareness thing. I open a door ... AND STAND THERE, in the open
doorway, while the guy inside gives me a BIG hit from his H&K 227. I took a D
wound AFTER resistance, AND using my one Karma Pool.

Thank god for Trauma Dampers, I was able to stay on my feet and drop two
bursts of EX esplosive slugs from my Enfield AS-7 shotgun. And then promptly
cry "MEDIC!" ... <G>

Point is, the whole wound was because I was _stupid_ with a capital DUMB. Not
just bad luck on the damage rolls.

Sean
GM Pax

From:	GMPax@*.com GMPax@*.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:35:20 EST

Message no. 12 In a message dated 3/12/99 12:28:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
nomad74@*******.com writes:

> Yeah, I guess I missed something. I guess I'm an obsolete model now,
> huh? One of these days I'll get around to finish reading SR3... like
> maybe when my SR2 book is destroyed. :)
> Sorry for the confusion.

<g>

Read it, if only to cannibalise some of the better rules changes, like the
newer initiative systems (gives mages a chance WITHOUT needing Increased
Reflexes +3d6 spells running all the time ... !) and the linking of skills to
attributes. :-)

Sean
GM Pax

From:	Kama kama@*******.net
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:01:52 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 13 On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, David Buehrer wrote:

>
> Honestly, it doesn't matter what you have, it depends on what you do
> with it. I've seen PCs loaded for bear do the dumbest things and go
> down hard. I've also seen underarmed PCs display tactical brilliance
> and take down foes that I didn't thing they had a chance against (I'm
> never gonna forget the game where the dragon had to run away).
>

I can't believe no one else has asked yet. Are you all asleep out there?

What Dragon running away when? You can't let a teaser like that hang
without giving us the full story. Post it so that I can go back to lurker
mode.

Thank you,

Kama
Keeper of the Dicebag from Hell(tm)

From:	Michael _ your_raven@*******.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:50:04 PST

Message no. 14 That depends on your mage more than the force of the spell. Your Force 6
spell may seem awesome on paper, but casting it may knock you
unconscious from the drain, so who cares about the damage you do?

The really smart thing is to have a really good sorcery skill and a good
willpower. Then cast your spell at like Force 1 or 2 and throw most of
your spell pool dice and sorcery dice into it. Sure your opponent might
need 2's to resist your 2D mana bolt, but if his Willpower is like 4,
even if he gets all 4 successes you still only need to score 3 to kill
him since he can't downstage the damage with only 1 success to his
advantage. Then, since you only cast it at force 2 you have no problem
shaking the drain.

This tactic does have flaws still though. If the enemy has a mage
handing out spell defense dice, then suddenly all those goons and street
samurai with Wills of 3-5 become a problem to kill with 2D spells. Also,
if your target has a good Will (or Bod for a power bolt), then you might
not end up with enough successes to get him in one spell. Finally, for
vehicles the 3rd rules require you to cast big Force spells just to
pierce the armor so forget about the 2D method. Basically, if your
enemies have middle to lowish stats that you are targeting with mana
bolt or power bolt and there is no spell defense waiting around, the 2D
lots of dice method wins every time.
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From:	David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:13:03 -0700 (MST)

Message no. 15 Kama wrote:
/
/ On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, David Buehrer wrote:
/
/ > Honestly, it doesn't matter what you have, it depends on what you do
/ > with it. I've seen PCs loaded for bear do the dumbest things and go
/ > down hard. I've also seen underarmed PCs display tactical brilliance
/ > and take down foes that I didn't thing they had a chance against (I'm
/ > never gonna forget the game where the dragon had to run away).
/
/ I can't believe no one else has asked yet. Are you all asleep out there?
/
/ What Dragon running away when? You can't let a teaser like that hang
/ without giving us the full story. Post it so that I can go back to lurker
/ mode.

Geez, I just emailed it to findlerman after he asked it for me privately.

Okay, short version: the PCs did a smart tactical thing and attacked
the NPCs from buildings and cover (the NPCs where in the middle of the
street). One of the NPCs had a lesser western dragon for a friend (the
dragon's name start's with P, recognize the adventure yet?) that
swooped down into the street.

Except for the mage PC, all of the PCs fled. The mage PC cast a Fireball
at the dragon and actually did Light damage (good die rolls for the PC,
mediocre die rolls for me).

This is where I made a fatal error. I left the dragon in the middle of
the street and had it attack the PC with it's fire breath. The PC was
behind cover and was wearing security armor (a suit which he had
purchased a long time back and had been saving for a special
occasion). The dragon had a teeny tiny little +1 wound modifier.
Well, it all added up and the PC didn't need much luck and a few karma
to avoid the damage completely.

The PC cast another fireball and pumped it with his magic pool and just
about maxed out on successes. When I rolled the dragon's resistance test
the dice were absolutely shity, and the dragon took a Serious wound. At
this point I cut my losses and the dragon picked up his friend and ran.

Anyway, the lesson learned is that tactics (cover, hiding in shadows,
wearing appropriate armor, taking the high ground, etc) can beat a
strong opponent, given a little bit of luck. And in a dice based game
luck is always a factor. Also, don't stand in the middle of the street
and think you can take it :(

FWIW, I'm planning on using the NPC and the dragon in the near future
<EGMG>

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
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From:	Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:25:37 -0600

Message no. 16 > Force 5 spells, 5 Spell Pool, and Sorcery 6. Exactly how do I start
> flinging spells around? Do I use Sorcery + Spell Pool, with the Force
> of the spell being the TN# of the target to resist, and how do I
> determine the damage code of a spell? Is a Force 5 Manaball a M, S,
> D, or anything I want it to be? Can I simply throw a D spell, resist
> the Deadly Drain, and that's it?

Exactly. You choose to cast a spell, then select the Damage Level (if it's
one that causes damage), and roll your Sorcery skill plus Spell Pool dice
against the TN specified in the spell's description. Then resist Drain.

------------------------------

Just in case Anglekiller is unclear- you don't roll "sorcery skill"
for spellcasting. You roll allocated sorcery dice. This matters because
you probably want to save some of those dice to allocate to other things-
things like like spell defense, that also require allocation of dice.

Mongoose

From:	Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:21:34 -0600

Message no. 17 :The really smart thing is to have a really good sorcery skill and a good
:willpower. Then cast your spell at like Force 1 or 2 and throw most of
:your spell pool dice and sorcery dice into it. Sure your opponent might
:need 2's to resist your 2D mana bolt, but if his Willpower is like 4,
:even if he gets all 4 successes you still only need to score 3 to kill
:him since he can't downstage the damage with only 1 success to his
:advantage. Then, since you only cast it at force 2 you have no problem
:shaking the drain.

Might I point out that in many cases, drain from higher force is NOT
harder to resist? Take a manabolt- for force 1-5, the tn for resiting
drain is still 2 (ones always fail, drain is 1/2 force, rounded down). If
you have "manbolt 5", there is no point in casting "manabolt 2",
unless
you would be risking physical drain.
Low force spells only really help on drain if there are positive drain
code modifiers. This could come into play when casting physical or area
spells at "d" dm,age, also, due the the "over D / +2" drain.
If there is a negative modifier, even high force spells have minmal
drain- you can cast a force 7 stunbolt (any dmage), and the drain tn is
still 2!
The main advantage of low force spells is that they are easy to learn,
and a starting mage can have many of them.

Mongoose

From:	Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:23:06 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 18 "Mongoose" <m0ng005e@*********.com> writes:
> Just in case Anglekiller is unclear- you don't roll "sorcery skill"
> for spellcasting. You roll allocated sorcery dice. This matters because
> you probably want to save some of those dice to allocate to other things-
> things like like spell defense, that also require allocation of dice.

Not to bring up a dead thread, but did anyone every find
anything official on how often sorcery dice refresh? I'm hoping it's
at the beginning of each time you take 2xsimple or a complex action.

Mark

From:	Stainless Steel Rat ratinox@******.gweep.net
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	12 Mar 1999 20:25:38 -0500

Message no. 19 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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* David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.carl.org> on Fri, 12 Mar 1999
| Honestly, it doesn't matter what you have, it depends on what you do
| with it.

Oh, yeah.

Back, in the SR1 days, I played a Snake shaman. Her spells: Chaos, Mask,
Entertainment, Detox M, Heal M, Heal D. Not what one would consider
big-bang combat spells. The rest of the group figured she was there for
things like spell defense and healing magic -- which was true for the most
part.

On one particular run, the lot of us were cornered on a floor of a
high-rise. Security troops were working their way through the fire door
we'd closed to cut them off, and more troops were coming after us in the
elevator. We needed time to figure a way out, and security was not going
to give it to us -- and they were not going to let us get out alive.

At the time she had a local building spirit following her around. Yeah, I
hear you saying, what the heck can a wimp like that do?

Accident: the elevator cables snapped.
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From:	Lady Jestyr jestyr@*******.com.au
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:43:46 +1000

Message no. 20 At 17:23 12/03/99 -0500, Mark A Shieh wrote:

>> Just in case Anglekiller is unclear- you don't roll "sorcery skill"
>> for spellcasting. You roll allocated sorcery dice. This matters because
>> you probably want to save some of those dice to allocate to other things-
>> things like like spell defense, that also require allocation of dice.
>
> Not to bring up a dead thread, but did anyone every find
>anything official on how often sorcery dice refresh? I'm hoping it's
>at the beginning of each time you take 2xsimple or a complex action.

Dice pools (apart from Karma Pool) refresh every ROUND in SR3 (as opposed
to every action in SR2)... so allocate your dice carefully.

Lady Jestyr

Quantum physics is God's way of saying "Ha! Solve THAT!"
jestyr@*******.com.au | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr

From:	Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:17:25 -0600

Message no. 21 :> Just in case Anglekiller is unclear- you don't roll "sorcery skill"
:> for spellcasting. You roll allocated sorcery dice. This matters
because
:> you probably want to save some of those dice to allocate to other
things-
:> things like like spell defense, that also require allocation of dice.
:
: Not to bring up a dead thread, but did anyone every find
:anything official on how often sorcery dice refresh? I'm hoping it's
:at the beginning of each time you take 2xsimple or a complex action.
:
:Mark
:

Not "official", but that is seems correct. I asked Robert Boyle
yesterday if that is indeed how SR3 sorcery now works, and he said yes.
Astral combat, dispelling, spellcasting, and spell defense all use up
sorcery dice, but you can use all of your sorcery dice each full action
you have.
This differs from dice pools- because sorcery is not a dice pool.
Instead, the dice are provided by the various uses of the sorcery skill.
Spell Pool dice (which can augment some sorcery rolls, or be used for
drain) refresh with other pools, when intitative is rolled at the start of
a turn.

Mongoose

From:	GMPax@*.com GMPax@*.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:45:18 EST

Message no. 22 In a message dated 3/13/99 2:13:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
m0ng005e@*********.com writes:

> Not "official", but that is seems correct. I asked Robert Boyle
> yesterday if that is indeed how SR3 sorcery now works, and he said yes.
> Astral combat, dispelling, spellcasting, and spell defense all use up
> sorcery dice, but you can use all of your sorcery dice each full action
> you have.
> This differs from dice pools- because sorcery is not a dice pool.
> Instead, the dice are provided by the various uses of the sorcery skill.
> Spell Pool dice (which can augment some sorcery rolls, or be used for
> drain) refresh with other pools, when intitative is rolled at the start of
> a turn.
>
> Mongoose

In essence, in SR3, Sorcery as a skill now works like Pistol or Rifle skill,
the SPELL is the WEAPON.

You roll your Sorcery Skill Dice, to measure how accurate you are in casting
the spell. The spell's force becomes the Power Level of the attack, and the
damage level selected by the Mage is appended, ofc.

Ergo, a Force 9 Powerbolt, cast at M damage level, is _precisely_ as effective
against unarmored targets as a Heavy Pistol would be: it has a 9M damage code.
The spell needs Sorcery Skill, the gun needs Pistols skill, but there are few
other mechanical differences. :-)

Sean
GM Pax

From:	Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	Spellcasting...so how do I do this?
Date:	Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:14:16 -0600

Message no. 23 :> Not "official", but that is seems correct. I asked Robert Boyle
:> yesterday if that is indeed how SR3 sorcery now works, and he said
yes.
:> Astral combat, dispelling, spellcasting, and spell defense all use up
:> sorcery dice, but you can use all of your sorcery dice each full
action
:> you have.
:> This differs from dice pools- because sorcery is not a dice pool.
:> Instead, the dice are provided by the various uses of the sorcery
skill.
:> Spell Pool dice (which can augment some sorcery rolls, or be used
for
:> drain) refresh with other pools, when intitative is rolled at the
start of
:> a turn.

:In essence, in SR3, Sorcery as a skill now works like Pistol or Rifle
skill,
:the SPELL is the WEAPON.
:
:You roll your Sorcery Skill Dice, to measure how accurate you are in
casting
:the spell. The spell's force becomes the Power Level of the attack, and
the
:damage level selected by the Mage is appended, ofc.
:
:Ergo, a Force 9 Powerbolt, cast at M damage level, is _precisely_ as
effective
:against unarmored targets as a Heavy Pistol would be: it has a 9M damage
code.
:The spell needs Sorcery Skill, the gun needs Pistols skill, but there are
few
:other mechanical differences. :-)

In that case, for a single shot, and when the mage chooses to use as
many sorcery dice as the shooters skill, yes.

But that is a rather limited parallel- spellcasting requires a very
different procedure in the rules than ranged combat does. I don't think
its a matter of a few mechanical difference. Its a different system- even
the Sr3 introduction acknowledges that they are "specialized rules". Its
just not AS different as magic was from other skills in SR2.

The differences reflect that sorcery (the manipulation of mana) is
somewhat more difficult than just busting off caps in the right direction.
This is not only reflected in the fact that spellcasting is a complex
action, but also reflected in the fact that, after any use (IE, rolling of
dice), you can't use sorcery skill dice again, for any purpose, until your
next action.

Sorcery is a very versatile power (more so in Sr3 than sr2, even)-
instead of "Mana Manipulation" being divided into many smaller skills (as
combat is), the DICE the skill provides are divided among uses.

This becomes VERY clear when you compare the autofire rules to the
casting of multiple spells as one action: Using autofire, your TN is
likely to go up if you shoot at 3 different targets, but you roll you're
entire skill each time. In casting stacked spells, you must allocate
sorcery dice to each spell- meaning you do NOT get to use your full skill.

What was (apparently) not made to clear in Sr3 is that different uses
(like rolling spell defense, or astral combat using sorcery) taken before
your next action also use up sorcery dice, and make them unavailable for
other use. Just as you cant use sorcery dice more than once between
actions for the same purpose (like when stacking spells or rolling spell
defense), they also can't be used for different purposes.

Mongoose

P.S. The Sorcery mechanics I'm going into above should seem rather
familiar to those who have used the storyteller system, where all action
dice are taken from a "pool" that is simply a number of skill dice that
can be used in one action. In fact, FASA (I've heard) helped White Wolf
develop that system. Its still a distinct and unique mechanic, but the
reason for the use of the mechanic is similar in both cases- it reflects
the difficulty of performing multiple tasks quite well, and is quite
flexible.

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