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Message no. 1
From: "Mark A. Imbriaco" <mark@******.NET>
Subject: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:57:24 -0400
> Actually, strange theory coming up.
>
> What if you had a throwing knife focus, tied to a string... and held onto
> the string.
>
> Would you still be in contact with the weapon?

No.

-Mark
Message no. 2
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:29:26 +0200
At 10:57 18/09/97 -0400, Mark A. Imbriaco said:
>> Actually, strange theory coming up.
>>
>> What if you had a throwing knife focus, tied to a string... and held onto
>> the string.
>>
>> Would you still be in contact with the weapon?
>
> No.
>
> -Mark

Ah, Mark... experience and age shows up at the best. A single word that can
destroy a well-thought theory, a fragment that mines mountains... oh, what
the world would be without your contribution?

:)

P.
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
Message no. 3
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:58:15 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-18 11:02:55 EDT, mark@******.NET writes:

> > Actually, strange theory coming up.
> >
> > What if you had a throwing knife focus, tied to a string... and held
onto
> > the string.
> >
> > Would you still be in contact with the weapon?
>
> No.
>
> -Mark
>
Wait a second, hold here. That would entirely depend upon the items design
and the enchantment done. "No" is such a short answer, it removes the
"what
if." You guys got all over me for being such a way a while ago, let the
possibility be pondered.

If the knife were designed more like a stunted throwing spear, with the
"retrieval cord" an integral part of the item, then yes, it would be
feasible. I don't even think it would modifiy the karma cost much, if at
all. i could see shamanically affiliated fishing societies, such as in the
Phillipines are the southern mediterranean being places where developments
such as this would be greatly desired and possibly even treated as privilege.
-K
Message no. 4
From: "Mark A. Imbriaco" <mark@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:30:23 -0400
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Paolo Marcucci wrote:

> At 10:57 18/09/97 -0400, Mark A. Imbriaco said:
> >> Actually, strange theory coming up.
> >>
> >> What if you had a throwing knife focus, tied to a string... and held onto
> >> the string.
> >>
> >> Would you still be in contact with the weapon?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > -Mark
>
> Ah, Mark... experience and age shows up at the best. A single word that can
> destroy a well-thought theory, a fragment that mines mountains... oh, what
> the world would be without your contribution?

*chuckle* I suppose that was a bit gruff. I should have said:
"No. If you want to know why, read the archives." :-)

-Mark
Message no. 5
From: "Mark A. Imbriaco" <mark@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:34:30 -0400
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, J. Keith Henry wrote:

> Wait a second, hold here. That would entirely depend upon the items design
> and the enchantment done. "No" is such a short answer, it removes the
"what
> if." You guys got all over me for being such a way a while ago, let the
> possibility be pondered.

It has been. Many, many, many, many (you getting the idea, here)
times. Note to Dvixen: Check the FAQ .. if this isn't in it,
it should be. ;-)

> If the knife were designed more like a stunted throwing spear, with the
> "retrieval cord" an integral part of the item, then yes, it would be
> feasible. I don't even think it would modifiy the karma cost much, if at
> all. i could see shamanically affiliated fishing societies, such as in the
> Phillipines are the southern mediterranean being places where developments
> such as this would be greatly desired and possibly even treated as privilege.

Right, but the question was 'If I take a throwing knife focus,
and tie a piece of string to it' .. in that case my answer is
perfectly valid. No.

-Mark
Message no. 6
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 03:04:40 -0700
Mark A. Imbriaco wrote:

> It has been. Many, many, many, many (you getting the idea, here)
> times. Note to Dvixen: Check the FAQ .. if this isn't in it,
> it should be. ;-)

Note to self : Add the following to the FAQ.

'If Imbracio posts 'No.' and nothing else to the list, check the logs. He's
usually only gruff when people ask questions that have been discussed a
zillion times before. ;)'

> Right, but the question was 'If I take a throwing knife focus,
> and tie a piece of string to it' .. in that case my answer is
> perfectly valid. No.

Bah. The string was not originally intended to be part of the throwing
knife, therefore it is not part of the throwing knife, and if the knife
leaves the bonded's hand, it is no longer in contact with him, and is now
useless.

How's that for a longer 'No.'?

--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
Message no. 7
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:17:03 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-19 08:32:46 EDT, mark@******.NET writes:

> Right, but the question was 'If I take a throwing knife focus,
> and tie a piece of string to it' .. in that case my answer is
> perfectly valid. No.
>
> -Mark
>
Okay, from such a simplified question format, yeah, I agree with you. Tying
a standard piece of string to the object in question wouldn't work. But from
the other, more thought out variations???

-K
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:28:07 +0100
J. Keith Henry said on 1:17/22 Sep 97...

> Okay, from such a simplified question format, yeah, I agree with you. Tying
> a standard piece of string to the object in question wouldn't work. But from
> the other, more thought out variations???

Like I said, make a weapon focus that is supposed to have the string
attached, and then enchant it. So long as you hold on to the string,
you're in contact with the focus and it adds its extra dice to your skill.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 9
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:05:31 +0000
Gurth <gurth@******.NL> once wrote

> J. Keith Henry said on 1:17/22 Sep 97...
>
> > Okay, from such a simplified question format, yeah, I agree with you. Tying
> > a standard piece of string to the object in question wouldn't work. But from
> > the other, more thought out variations???
>
> Like I said, make a weapon focus that is supposed to have the string
> attached, and then enchant it. So long as you hold on to the string,
> you're in contact with the focus and it adds its extra dice to your skill.
>

Hmmm.... not to sound offensive or nothin'... but that sounds like
rules exploitation to me. Attaching a piece of string to a weapon,
so that when you drop it, you still get it's bonuses, via the string,
reminds me of tricks we used to pull in old' AD&D. Now come on. A
piece of string, how can that conduct magical energy? And can we
consider this a "piece" of the weapon? (Anybody who saw the Anime
"Ninja Scroll" has a pretty good idea of what I'm talkin' (ranting?)
about)

I deleted the first part of this thread, but I think it was talking
about Weapon foci throwing knifes. Well, here's my solution.
Nothing. IMHO, The skill needed to throw the knife is used BEFORE
the knife leaves your hand (therefore, still in contact, and you
still get the bonuses). So when it leaves, technically, you have already
applied your skill to the throw. So, if it's still in contact or not makes the
point moot, again IMO. When you regain possesion of the foci, the
energy "comes on", for lack of a better turn, ready for another
throw. Now, I would apply this also concerning the damage a
foci/knife would make (i.e. regeneration).

Here it is. I think that, when you threw that knife, you HAD the
intention of hitting the target with the full force of the knife,
with all powers attached. That intention carries itself in the
knife, until it's "mission" is accomplished. Therefore, IMHO, it's
still active when hitting the target. I would see it as an astral
line, conducting energy from the user to the knife, until the knife
hits. Then, it dies down. I know, it sound far fetched, but I'd
rather find "poetic" solutions to these problems, instead of finding
holes in rules and/or methods to circumvent those rules.

Trinity

jeanpell@****.qc.ca
"Life is a blur"
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:18:47 +0100
Frank Pelletier said on 12:05/22 Sep 97...

> Hmmm.... not to sound offensive or nothin'... but that sounds like
> rules exploitation to me. Attaching a piece of string to a weapon,
> so that when you drop it, you still get it's bonuses, via the string,
> reminds me of tricks we used to pull in old' AD&D.

It may be considered rules exploitation, but it is also perfectly legal:
as long as you're in contact with the focus you get its bonus. The string,
as long as it is really part of the focus instead of tied on later, allows
you to fulfill that requirement.

On thing I also mentioned earlier is that I would apply a TN modifier of
about +2 when someone throws a weapon focus such as this, due to the
string interfering with the knife's movement. Hell, it could even cut its
own string IMHO, and you know what happens to a focus that is changed in
some way...

> Now come on. A piece of string, how can that conduct magical energy?
> And can we consider this a "piece" of the weapon?

It doesn't "conduct magical energy." It's part of the focus, and that's
all that matters, according to the magical theory as I understand it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 11
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117" <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:45:09 -0500
You wrote:
> Hmmm.... not to sound offensive or nothin'... but that sounds like
> rules exploitation to me. Attaching a piece of string to a weapon,
> so that when you drop it, you still get it's bonuses, via the string,
> reminds me of tricks we used to pull in old' AD&D. Now come on. A
> piece of string, how can that conduct magical energy? And can we
> consider this a "piece" of the weapon?
If its purpose is to retrieve the weapon after throwing, yes.

> Here it is. I think that, when you threw that knife, you HAD the
> intention of hitting the target with the full force of the knife,
> with all powers attached. That intention carries itself in the
> knife, until it's "mission" is accomplished. Therefore, IMHO, it's
> still active when hitting the target. I would see it as an astral
> line, conducting energy from the user to the knife, until the knife
> hits. Then, it dies down. I know, it sound far fetched, but I'd
> rather find "poetic" solutions to these problems, instead of finding
> holes in rules and/or methods to circumvent those rules.

I agree about not circumventing the rules, but you see there isn't anything in
SR that works over a distance in the astral. Even with a spell, it is a
'living thing' that runs to the target and produces its effect while in
contact. Once the knife leaves your hand, it's no longer magically active. No
'astral energy' trailing back to the thrower, that's not how things work.

losthalo
Message no. 12
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:53:00 GMT
on 22.09.97 gurth@******.NL wrote:

g> > Hmmm.... not to sound offensive or nothin'... but that sounds like
g> > rules exploitation to me. Attaching a piece of string to a weapon,
g> > so that when you drop it, you still get it's bonuses, via the string,
g> > reminds me of tricks we used to pull in old' AD&D.
g>
g> It may be considered rules exploitation, but it is also perfectly legal:
g> as long as you're in contact with the focus you get its bonus. The string,
g> as long as it is really part of the focus instead of tied on later, allows
g> you to fulfill that requirement.

You forgot one thing: The range. You pay that much for range when you nuy
a focus, as it has to be able it widen your aura (At least that's how I
see it). Sure, you can make that focus with a string, but if you want to
throw it at a target 20m away, the focus has to have range 20 to work.



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 13
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:51:02 -0500
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Tobias Berghoff wrote:

> on 22.09.97 gurth@******.NL wrote:
>
> g> It may be considered rules exploitation, but it is also perfectly legal:
> g> as long as you're in contact with the focus you get its bonus. The string,
> g> as long as it is really part of the focus instead of tied on later, allows
> g> you to fulfill that requirement.
>
> You forgot one thing: The range. You pay that much for range when you nuy
> a focus, as it has to be able it widen your aura (At least that's how I
> see it). Sure, you can make that focus with a string, but if you want to
> throw it at a target 20m away, the focus has to have range 20 to work.
>
Ya see this is where being a full mage has it's advantage :) ya
see this has to be a "pet" project of the mage to even make it almost
worth while. Because if you don't do it your self it'll really cost you!!!

BTW here's a kinda new topic for ya's: How many of you play a non PhysAd
with a weapon focus? I have 2, so far, that I have made and am waiting to
play, one's a Hermetic Counjuring Adept and the other is an Enchanting
Adept (this one was a "nobody ever plays one" type of char). So any
others?

->Czar


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar-"What-ABOUT-boB?"- Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"It's not the heat, it's the humidity.It's not the voltage, it's the current.
It's not the meat, it's the motion. And it's not the pipe - it's the will."
- Jeff Vogel
Scorched Earth Party
http://cspo.queensu.ca/~fletcher/Scorch/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:27:00 GMT
on 25.09.97 czregbrt@*********.EDU wrote:

c> > You forgot one thing: The range. You pay that much for range when you nuy
c> > a focus, as it has to be able it widen your aura (At least that's how I
c> > see it). Sure, you can make that focus with a string, but if you want to
c> > throw it at a target 20m away, the focus has to have range 20 to work.
c> >
c> Ya see this is where being a full mage has it's advantage :) ya
c> see this has to be a "pet" project of the mage to even make it almost
c> worth while. Because if you don't do it your self it'll really cost you!!!

Man, it took me 5 minutes to figure out what you were talking about.
Please write rather common English, as some of us have other native
languages.

c>
c> BTW here's a kinda new topic for ya's: How many of you play a non PhysAd
c> with a weapon focus? I have 2, so far, that I have made and am waiting to
c> play, one's a Hermetic Counjuring Adept and the other is an Enchanting
c> Adept (this one was a "nobody ever plays one" type of char). So any
c> others?

Most of the mages I know have one (or two).



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 15
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Throwing knife focus [ was: Re: list opinion wanted. ]
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 02:59:08 -0500
On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Tobias Berghoff wrote:

> on 25.09.97 czregbrt@*********.EDU wrote:
>
> c> Ya see this is where being a full mage has it's advantage :) ya
> c> see this has to be a "pet" project of the mage to even make it almost
> c> worth while. Because if you don't do it your self it'll really cost you!!!
>
> Man, it took me 5 minutes to figure out what you were talking about.
> Please write rather common English, as some of us have other native
> languages.
>
Sorry... I have this problem where I write with my accent, and
being from Boston it can get out of hand. :) I'll endevor to change that.

-=> Czar

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"I'll need morphine, lots of it, and a pistol."
-The English Patient
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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