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Message no. 1
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 02:33:45 -0400
Once upon a time, Joshua Bell wrote;

>As a part-time gamemaster I have come up with the following:
<snip>
>What is you opinion?

Well, I just checked the send date and it wasn't a lost post from April
1st.

In other words you've got to be kidding. It took about 5 years (sorry I'm
not checking the books for an exact date on this one) to get from beta to
gamma and a few more before hints of delta came out (which is only 2?
years off your date). Your SOTA curve is way off.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 2
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 02:36:41 -0400
Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;

>Actually, IIRC, in one of the books, Alpha-Grade is now equal to Standard in
>Physical Cost by the year 2057/8 or so.

I don't recall that at all. Could you please quote that for me. I'm
rather skeptical.
(I hope this isn't more garbage from the Shadowrun Companion, that book
really needs a second edition made).

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:41:04 +0100
MC23 said on 2:36/ 1 May 98...

> >Actually, IIRC, in one of the books, Alpha-Grade is now equal to Standard in
> >Physical Cost by the year 2057/8 or so.
>
> I don't recall that at all. Could you please quote that for me. I'm
> rather skeptical.
> (I hope this isn't more garbage from the Shadowrun Companion, that book
> really needs a second edition made).

I think it's a bit of a skewed interpretation of a few lines in
Cybertechnology: "Only standard and alpha-grade cyberware are
mass-produced" and "Player characters can get alpha- and beta-grade custom
cyberware at most shadow clinics" (both on page 44).

I read those to mean that you still have to pay the extra cost for
alpha-grade cyberware, but can get it much more easily than the rules in
the Street Samurai Catalog allow. What I did was alter the Availability in
a similar way to Josh's post, but I don't remember how exactly :/

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 4
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:43:38 EDT
In a message dated 5/1/98 1:41:20 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:

> >Actually, IIRC, in one of the books, Alpha-Grade is now equal to Standard
in
> >Physical Cost by the year 2057/8 or so.
>
> I don't recall that at all. Could you please quote that for me. I'm
> rather skeptical.
> (I hope this isn't more garbage from the Shadowrun Companion, that book
> really needs a second edition made).
>
Na, it was in the Cybertechnology books I though, but as I am sort of getting
ready for work and my mind hasn't switched on (it's rebelling majorly)...can't
quote a thing... :P

-K
Message no. 5
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:12:33 -0400
At 02:36 AM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>
>>Actually, IIRC, in one of the books, Alpha-Grade is now equal to Standard in
>>Physical Cost by the year 2057/8 or so.
>
> I don't recall that at all. Could you please quote that for me. I'm
>rather skeptical.
>(I hope this isn't more garbage from the Shadowrun Companion, that book
>really needs a second edition made).

I believe Gurth mentioned this also, drawing from the Cybertechnology book.

But it bears repeating. SOTA or not, Alpha cyber still is more expensive
than "normal" standard grade cyber, it's just easier to find and get a hold
of. As in, those that have the nuyen can purchase the "deluxe" datajack
(read: alpha grade) at the local public implant shop/hospital.

It's a bit like the difference between a Honda and a Jaguar. We all know
it's there, but without the CDBs (Cash Dollar Bills), we can't buy the
better car, the Jaguar.

Erik J.


"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
Message no. 6
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:13:37 -0400
At 02:33 AM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Once upon a time, Joshua Bell wrote;
>
>>As a part-time gamemaster I have come up with the following:
><snip>
>>What is you opinion?
>
>Well, I just checked the send date and it wasn't a lost post from April
>1st.

I can see how you sometimes get in trouble. The sarcasm from this was
literally oozing from my monitor. Bitch to clean off...

>In other words you've got to be kidding. It took about 5 years (sorry I'm
>not checking the books for an exact date on this one) to get from beta to
>gamma and a few more before hints of delta came out (which is only 2?
>years off your date). Your SOTA curve is way off.

The SOTA curve is horribly off; but that's not the only problem.

Okay, Alpha is an Essence reduction of 20%, Beta is 40%, Delta is 50% as I
recall. That curve indicates to me that is is increasingly difficult to
make chunks of metal and plastic (i.e., cyberware) Essence friendly. So
your next grade up, Gamma, might well be 60%, but Epsilon would probably be
65%, your "Super Epsilon" (run out of Greek letters did we?) would be 70%,
and there would almost certainly have to be a physical limit, a cap on how
Essence friendly something could be, like 75% or something. If cyber is
99% Essence friendly, it's nearly bioware, but you can't tell me that the
cyberarm with the implanted cyberdeck, gyroscopic stabilizers, magnetic
palm, and pop out shotgun is nearly all biological material.

And for the SOTA curve...the game is currently in 2059, and will be moving
into 2060, probably sooner than later, since the new Seattle Sourcebook
(due sometime this year) covers 2054 up to 2060; that means SR is moving to
2060 in as soon as a few months. So your "future" cyber is essentially
nearly here by the time line.

Now if you said this was 2160 cyberware, we might not hammer you as hard.

I can see that you made cost a balancing factor to try to make things
"fair," but you neglected to keep the idea within the spirit of what FASA
intended. Or at least that's what I believe.

Just head back to the drawing table I suppose.

Erik J.


"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
Message no. 7
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:04:19 EST
> >Well, I just checked the send date and it wasn't a lost post from April
> >1st.
>
> I can see how you sometimes get in trouble. The sarcasm from this
> was literally oozing from my monitor. Bitch to clean off...

LOL!

> Okay, Alpha is an Essence reduction of 20%, Beta is 40%, Delta is
> 50% as I recall. That curve indicates to me that is is increasingly
> difficult to make chunks of metal and plastic (i.e., cyberware)
> Essence friendly. So your next grade up, Gamma, might well be 60%,
> but Epsilon would probably be 65%, your "Super Epsilon" (run out of
> Greek letters did we?) would be 70%, and there would almost

Not to mention that he has gamma following delta...why didn't he just
leave it out?

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 8
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:45:17 -0400
At 02:33 AM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Once upon a time, Joshua Bell wrote;
>
>>As a part-time gamemaster I have come up with the following:
>In other words you've got to be kidding. It took about 5 years (sorry I'm
>not checking the books for an exact date on this one) to get from beta to
>gamma and a few more before hints of delta came out (which is only 2?
>years off your date). Your SOTA curve is way off.

Not if it (SOTA curve) is EXPONENTIAL. Really I don't evn care if you use
it , I use it for FUN. And it does make sense, all you have to do is
increase the inovation rate, and the engineers/scientists have
"inspirations" that decrease the curve dramatically. (Just think how long
it would have be for the Energy theory without Einstein) so in my world I
just have a few more "Einstein" people born, thats all.
Message no. 9
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:16:54 +0100
At 01-Mai-98 wrote MC23:

>Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;

>>Actually, IIRC, in one of the books, Alpha-Grade is now equal to Standard in
>>Physical Cost by the year 2057/8 or so.

> I don't recall that at all. Could you please quote that for me. I'm
>rather skeptical.
>(I hope this isn't more garbage from the Shadowrun Companion, that book
>really needs a second edition made).

It is page 85 Cyberware costs:

"...has made alpha grade cyberware far more avaiable-but certainly not cheaper
. To reflect this chage, the Street index and avaiability for alpha-grade
cyberware is now the same as for standart-grade cyberware."

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------

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