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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bob Ooton)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sat May 5 20:15:00 2001
In the spirit of Cymon's post under "Standard Running Gear", I came up
with this thought: How do you spend your starting nuyen for any given
character if you're limited to 5,000?

Cymon's decker went with a low lifestyle, lots of guns, decent armor,
and minimal cyberware and I thought that was pretty cool. I'd been
wanting to make an troll or ork decker with low resources and this
example got my interest back into that sort of character.

So basically what I'm looking for is the basic character type (physad,
sammy, mage, shaman, decker, rigger, etc... I know there can be a lot of
difference between each, but this makes things easier) and how you'd
spend the nuyen for that type.

For example, my troll decker, "The Ghettocrat", will likely start
with...

Datajack (1,000)
Math SPU 1 (2,000/3,000)
Ruger Super Warhawk (300/3,300)
20 rounds of standard ammo (40/3,340)
Armor Vest w/Plates (600/3,940)
Real Leathers (750/4,690)
Pager (10/4,700)
4 x Ordinary Clothing (200/4,900)
Squatter Lifestyle: 1 month (100/5,000)

That's 5,000 spent on a decker without a deck. He'd have to rent a deck
for any run and plans to build his own once he gets the cash saved up.
He can carry or wear everything he owns pretty easily, but that's the
way I wanted the character. He should have a horde of skills and
impressive attributes since I use the 10-point system for CharGen (two
A's for Attributes and Skills).

Who's next? =)

| Bob Ooton <rbooton@*****.edu>
| aka TopCat, the cyberware advocate
| Member of the Black Hand Demo Team
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sat May 5 21:30:01 2001
Bob Ooton wrote:

<Ghettocrat snipped>
> Who's next? =)

I'll give this a shot: "Joe 'the Schmoe' Smith, Esq.: Urban Thaumaturge"
is likely to have the following:

Ordinary Clothingx2 100 (two sets of clothes: clean and dirty)
Lined Coat 700
Defiance T-250 500
10 shotgun rounds (shot) 20*
10 shotgun rounds (slug) 20
Ares Predator 450
1 spare clip** 5
30 rounds normal ammo 60
Concealable Holster 100
Pocket Secretary 2000
Low Lifestyle (1 month) 1000

* Assumes the same price for shot rounds as 'normal' rounds for
shotguns. I couldn't support this in the BABY or previous-edition BBB,
but it seems like I remember it from somewhere other than common sense.
** Assumes that all pistols come with a clip. This note is strictly a
CYA kind of thing.

which leaves him with half a nuyen for bus change and laundry when the
game starts. I expect he's got a library card for doing thaumaturgical
research of various types. Weapons are primarily for personal defense
(Class-F neighborhood, yay!:P), Pocket Secretary because it's too many
things (holy cow!) not to be useful.

Random question (for any who can answer it): how much is memory? Most of
the electronics have their cost listed in terms of the cost of memory,
but the only memory I can find in the main book(s) (BABY/BBB2) is
headware... Did I miss something?

--
John Pederson
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sat May 5 21:50:01 2001
On Sat, 5 May 2001 19:18:41 -0500 "Bob Ooton" <rbooton@*****.edu> writes:
> In the spirit of Cymon's post under "Standard Running Gear", I came
> up
> with this thought: How do you spend your starting nuyen for any
> given
> character if you're limited to 5,000?
<SNIP>
> Who's next? =)

Heh. I don't think MY decker character counts ... he's an otaku. :)

I wish I could find my SR2 characters with 500 starting cash ... HD
crashes suck :/

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Peter Kristiansen)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 08:40:01 2001
From: "John Pederson" <pedersje@**.rose-hulman.edu>
>
> Random question (for any who can answer it): how much is memory?
Most of
> the electronics have their cost listed in terms of the cost of
memory,
> but the only memory I can find in the main book(s) (BABY/BBB2) is
> headware... Did I miss something?
>
MPx20, SR3 page 287. It's in the table under Computer
Memory(Non-cyber)

Cheers

Peter
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 11:10:01 2001
In a message dated 5/5/01 9:58:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dghost@****.com
writes:

> Heh. I don't think MY decker character counts ... he's an otaku. :)

We had a campaign where the GM set the starting cash limit at 5K, and that's
when I first made my otaku. (If I'd known that we'd get the Fuchi Excalibur
so soon, he might've been a regular decker, but my idea of a "street level
campaign" and the GMs were different I guess :-)
Anyway, the final version (so far) is here;
http://www.pompano.net/~vocenoctum/secondary/doriasv4.htm
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 12:10:05 2001
>>>We had a campaign where the GM set the starting cash limit at 5K, and
that's
when I first made my otaku. (If I'd known that we'd get the Fuchi Excalibur
so soon, he might've been a regular decker, but my idea of a "street level
campaign" and the GMs were different I guess :-)

I once made the worlds WORST otaku, just to see how good they can be at
OTHER things. He was a troll, and had the minimum passable otaku related
stats. Its amazing how lousy an Otaku can be in the matrix, if you try.
You'd think there would be some minimum requirements for the living persona,
but no.
He would have been a tolerable (barely) decker using a real deck, but mostly
I'd figure his job was to keep the other Otaku from getting beaten up when
they went out to get nerps and soycaf, and to carry those heavy toolkits,
satalite dishes, and such. His competancies outside the matrix (and social
interaction) were not to bad, though.

-Mongoose
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 12:10:13 2001
Peter Kristiansen wrote:

> MPx20, SR3 page 287. It's in the table under Computer
> Memory(Non-cyber)
>
> Cheers

Boy, do I feel dumb. Much thanks. I don't think I'd have seen it if it
hadn't been pointed out:)
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 12:10:19 2001
--- Bob Ooton <rbooton@*****.edu> wrote:
> In the spirit of Cymon's post under "Standard Running Gear", I came up
> with this thought: How do you spend your starting nuyen for any given
> character if you're limited to 5,000?

> So basically what I'm looking for is the basic character type (physad,
> sammy, mage, shaman, decker, rigger, etc... I know there can be a lot of
> difference between each, but this makes things easier) and how you'd
> spend the nuyen for that type.

Street Samurai, eh? Let's see... usually that's a money-driven
character. He's gonna be pretty lame stat-wise with only 5K, but it could
make a cool character.

Low Lifestyle = 1000
Sap = 10
Colt Manhunter = 450
Internal Smartlink 1 = 450
Concealable Holster = 100
Regular Ammo (20 rounds) = 40
Fine Clothing (wrapped in plastic; for those meets where you just can't
look like gutter-trash) = 500
Secure Ultra-Vest (smelly) = 350
Pager = 10
Pocket Flashlight = 10
Tranceiver (Rating 1, ECCCM 0) = 375
Dataline Scanner (Rating 4) = 400
Metal Restraints = 20
Ration Bars = 30
Smartlink 1 (2nd-hand) = 1,250

Leftover nuyen = .5 + 3d6x100

Coulda gone even cheaper on some things, but that's a pretty decent gear
sheet, I think. And with the Attributes and Skills this sammie'll have,
they'll be able to survive, one would hope (depends on the campaign).

One thing that's frustrating about a 5K char is the fact that you start
out with two contacts. Tha's all, folks. That can be pretty limiting.

====-Boondocker

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 12:50:01 2001
In a message dated 5/6/01 12:15:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
m0ng005e@*****.com writes:

> He would have been a tolerable (barely) decker using a real deck,

They do have a minimum computer skill of 6, right?
I'm assuming your mental att's weren't the best though :-)

>but mostly
> I'd figure his job was to keep the other Otaku from getting beaten up when
> they went out to get nerps and soycaf, and to carry those heavy toolkits,
> satalite dishes, and such.

Nyah, I figure they either hire muscle or, more likely to me, branch into
rigging.
I'd have liked the whole Renraku Arcology Shutdown better if it was all done
by one rogue otaku taking over the computer and controlling all the drones
and....well, it woulda been fun :-)
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 18:40:06 2001
From: "John Pederson" <pedersje@**.rose-hulman.edu>
> 10 shotgun rounds (shot) 20*
> * Assumes the same price for shot rounds as 'normal' rounds for
> shotguns. I couldn't support this in the BABY or previous-edition
BBB,
> but it seems like I remember it from somewhere other than common
sense.

You could argue, that since "shot rounds" behave like flechette ammo,
they should cost the same as flechette, which is 100 nuyen per 10
shots.

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inte.tele.dk/l-hansen
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 18:40:13 2001
From: <Schizi@***.com>
> I'd have liked the whole Renraku Arcology Shutdown better if it was
all done
> by one rogue otaku taking over the computer and controlling all the
drones
> and....well, it woulda been fun :-)

Shysh... that is supposed to be the plot for the "Renraku Archology:
Wakeup" adventure, just don't tell anybody, it's still top secret.

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inte.tele.dk/l-hansen
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 18:40:19 2001
From: "Bob Ooton" <rbooton@*****.edu>
> In the spirit of Cymon's post under "Standard Running Gear", I came
up
> with this thought: How do you spend your starting nuyen for any
given
> character if you're limited to 5,000?
<Snip>
> Who's next? =)

5,000? You should count yourself lucky. When I made my first adept he
only had 1,000 nuyen. The big fat Tibetan monk in yellow sheets spend
them the following way:

Real leather clothing: 750
6 Shurikens: 180
Staff: 50
Change: 2+ 3D6x100

IIRC he had more change than he had stuff.

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inte.tele.dk/l-hansen
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 19:10:01 2001
Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:

> You could argue, that since "shot rounds" behave like flechette ammo,
> they should cost the same as flechette, which is 100 nuyen per 10
> shots.

This is true. Which is why I was unsure of my earlier statement. At the
same time, the rules don't say to treat shot shells as flechette rounds
in all respects, only for damage effects. And don't actually specify
past that. And the general guideline is that the price of something
today, in current US dollars, is a one-to-one ratio to the price of
something in Shadowrun, in nuyen. I'm pretty torn, but would be against
screwing players over without a better rationale.

--
John Pederson
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 6 23:20:01 2001
> > You could argue, that since "shot rounds" behave
like flechette ammo, they should cost the same as
flechette, which is 100 nuyen per 10 shots.
>
> This is true. Which is why I was unsure of my
earlier statement. At the same time, the rules don't
say to treat shot shells as flechette rounds in all
respects, only for damage effects. And don't actually
specify past that. And the general guideline is that
the price of something today, in current US dollars,
is a one-to-one ratio to the price of something in
Shadowrun, in nuyen. I'm pretty torn, but would be
against screwing players over without a better
rationale.
> John Pederson

1. Shot rounds are the bog standard for shotguns. The
same as regular rounds for anything else. Flechette
rounds, on the other hand, are rather special and thus
cost more. So there's no non-balance reason why they
should be costed as per flechette ammo.

2. Shotguns are different to other weapons. When they
fire shot the mechanics are extremely different to
what happens when anything else fires flechette ammo.
So you can't really compare the two - thus, there's no
balance reason for shot rounds to cost the same as
flechette rounds.

IMNSHO.

Oh, one more things. If you have CC, check out the
costs of the Stun Shells - I can't see any POSSIBLE
reason why standard shot rounds should cost more than
these specialty shot rounds.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 00:40:00 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> 1. Shot rounds are the bog standard for shotguns. The
> same as regular rounds for anything else. Flechette
> rounds, on the other hand, are rather special and thus
> cost more. So there's no non-balance reason why they
> should be costed as per flechette ammo.

But, that's not what the book says. :) Not that I disagree with you.


> 2. Shotguns are different to other weapons. When they
> fire shot the mechanics are extremely different to
> what happens when anything else fires flechette ammo.
> So you can't really compare the two - thus, there's no
> balance reason for shot rounds to cost the same as
> flechette rounds.

Incidentally, and information I've seen on flechette rounds in the here
and now shows a pretty definite level of spread with them. So I'm not
sure why SR's version doesn't (or what the advantage is if they don't at
least a little bit).


> IMNSHO.
>
> Oh, one more things. If you have CC, check out the
> costs of the Stun Shells - I can't see any POSSIBLE
> reason why standard shot rounds should cost more than
> these specialty shot rounds.

I find it amusing that Stun rounds are now rubber shot. SR2 doesn't
really explain them, but they sound more like a rubber slug than a
shotshell (maybe gel rounds are supposed to be rubber slugs?). That's
life, I suppose.

SR's ammo prices are, it seems, a little on the high side, but I think
that has more to do with abstracting out *all* of the details with
regards to weapon calibers.


> ..sig Sauer

You seem to have picked up an extra dot somewhere...


> Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

Yeah. Pull your dirty socks off the fire, man. Yuck!

> Do You Yahoo!?

No, and I'm offended by the insinuation.

--
John Pederson
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 00:55:02 2001
> One thing that's frustrating about a 5K char is the fact that you start
>out with two contacts. Tha's all, folks. That can be pretty limiting.
>
>====>-Boondocker

In the build point system, aren't contacts purchased with points, not cash?
If not, maybe you could do an edge (extra contact) and ofset it with a flaw
(maybe something that explains the characters lack of funds).

-Mongoose
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 01:00:01 2001
> But, that's not what the book says. :) Not that I
disagree with you.

Stupid book. :)

> Incidentally, and information I've seen on flechette
rounds in the here and now shows a pretty definite
level of spread with them. So I'm not sure why SR's
version doesn't (or what the advantage is if they
don't at least a little bit).

Stupid book. :)

> I find it amusing that Stun rounds are now rubber
shot. SR2 doesn't really explain them, but they sound
more like a rubber slug than a shotshell (maybe gel
rounds are supposed to be rubber slugs?). That's life,
I suppose.

Actually, I was asking about gel rounds on the list
ages ago and I was told by someone official that gel
rounds represent ANY kind of non-lethal round,
including rubber bullets.

> SR's ammo prices are, it seems, a little on the high
side, but I think that has more to do with abstracting
out *all* of the details with regards to weapon
calibers.

Most likely.

> > ..sig Sauer
>
> You seem to have picked up an extra dot somewhere...

Well damn. Better do something about that.

> > Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!
>
> Yeah. Pull your dirty socks off the fire, man. Yuck!

Make me! ;)

> > Do You Yahoo!?
>
> No, and I'm offended by the insinuation.

Hey, it wasn't me! It was the machine! The machine, I
tell you!!!

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

____________________________________________________________
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Get your free @*****.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
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Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 06:25:07 2001
How about taking nothing but 10 trauma patches as starting equipment? Oh,
and don't forget Negotiation (Haggling) at 5(7) so you can sell them for at
least 600 nuyen each to the fixer of your choice. That gives you a minimum
of 6000 nuyen starting cash (more if you roll well), so you can then go for
all sorts of equipment with a low Street Index to get up to twice that
amount worth of stuff...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nightwinder)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 09:15:01 2001
Gurth wrote:

> How about taking nothing but 10 trauma patches as starting equipment? Oh,
> and don't forget Negotiation (Haggling) at 5(7) so you can sell them for at
> least 600 nuyen each to the fixer of your choice. That gives you a minimum
> of 6000 nuyen starting cash (more if you roll well), so you can then go for
> all sorts of equipment with a low Street Index to get up to twice that
> amount worth of stuff...

No Gurth, you don't buy trauma patches. You get survival knives. Cheap, come
with a trauma patch, the knife itself and two glow-sticks. At a bargain price
too!!!!


--
Nightwinder
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl fhtagn
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 11:30:01 2001
> In the build point system, aren't contacts purchased with points, not
> cash?
> If not, maybe you could do an edge (extra contact) and ofset it with a
> flaw
> (maybe something that explains the characters lack of funds).
> -Mongoose

No, you buy 'em with cash, but you're right, you have to option to get
flaws and edges like Extra Contact and Extra Enemy (so technically you can
buy 'em with points... but the sky's the limit with cash, whereas an
Edge-cap is GMs discretion). That's an option for a low-money character, surely.

====-Boondocker

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 13:10:01 2001
According to Nightwinder, on Mon, 07 May 2001 the word on the street was...

> No Gurth, you don't buy trauma patches. You get survival knives. Cheap, come
> with a trauma patch, the knife itself and two glow-sticks. At a bargain price
> too!!!!

I took the safe option, but if the GM allows you to sell the knives' trauma
patches separately, that would be the way to go, certainly :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 14:40:01 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

>> But, that's not what the book says. :) Not that I
>> disagree with you.
>
> Stupid book. :)

True, but it's the only thing keeping these sort of conversations from
resorting to name-calling in some places, I'm sure:)

>> Incidentally, and information I've seen on flechette
>> rounds in the here and now shows a pretty definite
>> level of spread with them.
>
> Stupid book. :)

*shrug* It's not entirely clear whether the fin-stabilised flechette
shotgun shell I saw info on (somewhere on the Internet, so it must be
True) is the same sort of thing FASA calls a flechette round. Other
listmembers are certainly more qualified to debate such things than I.

>> (maybe gel
>> rounds are supposed to be rubber slugs?).
>
> Actually, I was asking about gel rounds on the list
> ages ago and I was told by someone official that gel
> rounds represent ANY kind of non-lethal round,
> including rubber bullets.

Okay. Admittedly, I can think of no other 'non-lethal' rounds, so I
guess I'll but that explanation.

>> SR's ammo prices are, it seems, a little on the high
>> side, but I think that has more to do with abstracting
>> out *all* of the details with regards to weapon
>> calibers.
>
> Most likely.

Either that, or .22 rounds have become as expensive as ... err... an
expensive and obscure caliber or ammunition. So much for turning an
interesting phrase:P

>> You seem to have picked up an extra dot somewhere...
>
> Well damn. Better do something about that.

Quickly. There's two now, but they multiply like rabbits.
.......
*&*%&^! See?!

<snippage -- witty rejoinders currently exhausted>

--
John Pederson
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bob Ooton)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 15:05:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: 5,000 Nuyen Question


According to Nightwinder, on Mon, 07 May 2001 the word on the street
was...

>> No Gurth, you don't buy trauma patches. You get survival knives.
>> Cheap, come with a trauma patch, the knife itself and two glow-
>> sticks. At a bargain price too!!!!

> I took the safe option, but if the GM allows you to sell the
> knives' trauma patches separately, that would be the way to go,
> certainly :)

I was thinking 2 AK-98 or Ares Alpha assault rifles, but the trauma
patches would be the way to go, especially if you could get away with
the survival knife bit. Not to mention how easy it'd be to carry them
around and the fact that they're legal.

I got nailed once for not paying up my lifestyle (failed the roll, as
well) and had to sell some items of my character's... wasn't pretty
because most of the stuff I had was low in street value. Have to
remember to stock up on pharmaceuticals next time. =)

| Bob Ooton <rbooton@*****.edu>
| aka TopCat, the cyberware advocate
| Member of the Black Hand Demo Team
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Achille Autran)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 15:15:01 2001
>From: Nightwinder <nightwinder@*******.com.au>
>Gurth wrote:
>
> > How about taking nothing but 10 trauma patches as starting equipment? Oh,
> > and don't forget Negotiation (Haggling) at 5(7) so you can sell them for at
> > least 600 nuyen each to the fixer of your choice. That gives you a minimum
> > of 6000 nuyen starting cash (more if you roll well), so you can then go for
> > all sorts of equipment with a low Street Index to get up to twice that
> > amount worth of stuff...
>
>No Gurth, you don't buy trauma patches. You get survival knives. Cheap, come
>with a trauma patch, the knife itself and two glow-sticks. At a bargain price
>too!!!!

On a similar pattern, in the French edition of SR2, '53 petrochemical
industry produced a bizarre sort of waste: plastic restraints. Or maybe
there has been an overwhelming overproduction between 50 and 53, and now
companies are emptying their warehouses. Anyway, plastic restraints were
worth 0¥, nada, nib. So you could start the game with, say, 150 tons of
plastic restraints (ah, fetichism...) Of course you can't sell them:
remember, they're worth nothing. But you can:

1- sell the plastic itself in bulk to the same facilities that produced it.

2- dip them in metallic paint and sell them as metal hand-cuffs. You'll
always find stupid people to buy them. Kinda like "le Sausage in le Bun".

3- wait until 2060, now they're worth 20¥ !!! Instant millionnaire !!!

4- perhaps the most promising: build a new shadow economy, where the
plastic restraint is the monetary unit (that's related to point 3 and
plastic restraints speculation: you gotta control the monetary mass, be a
plastic restraints Fort Knox !), or start a new engineering line based on
plastic restraints (remember, they fuse into an ultra-hard compound when
heated): plastic restraints clothes (Paco Rabanne style), plastic
restraints buildings, plastic restraints weapons (mostly clubs, too
bad...), plastic restraints backpacks (aka wallets), etc...

5- and, last but not least, get a time-warping matter transmitter (come on,
it's not THAT difficult to find...) and dip to your SR1 character in 50
wads of plastic restraints from 53. But wait, weren't we talking about
overproduction before ?

Molloy
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 21:15:01 2001
> > Stupid book. :)
>
> True, but it's the only thing keeping these sort of
conversations from resorting to name-calling in some
places, I'm sure:)

......

Shut up, jerkwad!

> *shrug* It's not entirely clear whether the
fin-stabilised flechette shotgun shell I saw info on
(somewhere on the Internet, so it must be True) is the
same sort of thing FASA calls a flechette round. Other
listmembers are certainly more qualified to debate
such things than I.

Honestly, I always saw them as the sci-fi 'needler'
type ammo - little slivers of metal or possibly
plastic. Otherwise, how do you explain how the damage
is increased against unarmoured targets, but sucks
against armour? Of course, I've never seen that
flechette shell thingy, so I can' comment on that.

> Okay. Admittedly, I can think of no other
'non-lethal' rounds, so I guess I'll but that
explanation.

Ummm...well, me neither, really. :) The only thing I
can think of is an actual semi-solid 'gel', as in 'gel
round' - something that'll splatter when it hits the
target, but is solid enough to transfer just about all
its kinetic energy.

> Either that, or .22 rounds have become as expensive
as ... err... an expensive and obscure caliber or
ammunition. So much for turning an interesting
phrase:P

Maybe you need some more sleep. :)

> Quickly. There's two now, but they multiply like
rabbits.
> .......
> *&*%&^! See?!
>
> <snippage -- witty rejoinders currently exhausted>
> John Pederson

Maybe you also need a brain transplant. ;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 23:05:01 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

>>> Stupid book. :)
>>
>> True, but it's the only thing keeping these sort of
>> conversations from resorting to name-calling in some
>> places, I'm sure:)
>
> .......
>
> Shut up, jerkwad!

Oh, yeah, fathead?! Why don't you make me?!


> Honestly, I always saw them as the sci-fi 'needler'
> type ammo

Actually, didn't the NAGtRL have info on Needle ammo?

> - little slivers of metal or possibly
> plastic.

Which matches up with FASA's description, but that makes it a shrapnel
gun of sorts, right?

> Otherwise, how do you explain how the damage
> is increased against unarmoured targets, but sucks
> against armour? Of course, I've never seen that
> flechette shell thingy, so I can' comment on that.

From http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm :
> Some shotgun cartridges are loaded with flechettes. These are small,
> steel, pointed dart-like projectiles with aft stabilization fins, and
> are commonly referred to as "nails with tails." The low cross
> sectional area of a single flechette, combined with the small amount
> of flechettes that can be loaded into a shotshell, makes them an
> inferior choice for home defense when compared to buckshot.
>
> Also, according to Second Chance Body Armor Company, flechettes are
> not effective against soft body armor, if this is a particular mission
> requirement for your ammunition. Steel shot also is ineffective
> against soft body armor.
>
> There are other various exotic shotshells that are best classified as
> gimmicks. These include rubber buckshot, bean bags, steel washers,
> rock salt, "Dragon's Breath," bird bombs, ceramic slugs, "bolo"
> projectiles and so on. The efficacy of these loads is questionable at
> best, and we advise you to avoid them altogether for this simple
> reason.

Catalog of various shotgun rounds, including pictures of a flechette
shell and some flechettes.
http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__15/Specialized_Shotshell_Ammuniti/specialized_shotshell_ammuniti.html
More info on flechette shells:
http://www.angelfire.com/sk/sabot/


> Ummm...well, me neither, really. :) The only thing I
> can think of is an actual semi-solid 'gel', as in 'gel
> round' - something that'll splatter when it hits the
> target, but is solid enough to transfer just about all
> its kinetic energy.

"Having recently acquired Hasbro toys, Ares Arms is proud to introduce
the latest in the non-lethal ammunition: NERF(r) bullets!"

Actually, I seem to remember something about 'simuslugs' from the Combat
Biker stuff, but I don't own any of those books.


> Maybe you need some more sleep. :)

Zzzzz-snork- huh?


>> Quickly. There's two now, but they multiply like
>> rabbits.
>> .......
>> *&*%&^! See?!
>

> Maybe you also need a brain transplant. ;)

Uh, yeah. I'm feeling a bit...
.
.
.
...hey!

--
John Pederson
Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 7 23:25:01 2001
--part1_b0.1414e78b.2828c166_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 5/7/01 11:13:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pedersje@**.rose-hulman.edu writes:


> Actually, I seem to remember something about 'simuslugs' from the Combat
> .

UCS (Urban Combat Simulator) stuff from Ft. Lewis, actually, if I remember
right. Nothin more than a name, though.


--part1_b0.1414e78b.2828c166_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 5/7/01
11:13:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>pedersje@**.rose-hulman.edu writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Actually, I seem to
remember something about 'simuslugs' from the Combat
<BR>Biker stuff, but I don't own any of those
books</BLOCKQUOTE>.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>UCS (Urban Combat Simulator) stuff from Ft. Lewis, actually, if I remember
<BR>right. Nothin more than a name, though.
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_b0.1414e78b.2828c166_boundary--
Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Tue May 8 03:50:01 2001
> > Shut up, jerkwad!
>
> Oh, yeah, fathead?! Why don't you make me?!

I could, you know...if your connection was of
sufficiently high quality. I could fart and the smell
would be transmitted over the line to your end,
forcing you to hold your breath or suffocate.

Really!

> Actually, didn't the NAGtRL have info on Needle
ammo?

Quite possible. Don't recall.

> Which matches up with FASA's description, but that
makes it a shrapnel gun of sorts, right?

Right. A lot like those shotgun 'sabot' shells you
showed - although isn't sabot a misnomer in this
instance?

The only thing I can think of is that FASA wanted the
'cool' factor of flechettes, but didn't want the
headache of trying to make other weapons function in
the same way as shotguns, and/or they wanted to make
shotguns special with their shot effects for game
balance reasons. The other possibilities are that 1)
at the time when SR was designed, there were no 'real
life' flechette rounds, so FASA had nothing to go on
from real life (although that could be totally bogus
as I have no idea how long flechette rounds have been
in use), or 2) they decided that flechette rounds
SHOULDN'T have 'shrapnel' effects, because the rounds
are smaller than shotgun shells, thus packing in less
darts and thus not having enough particles to do more
than shred up a single target. Uh...if that makes
sense.

> "Having recently acquired Hasbro toys, Ares Arms is
proud to introduce the latest in the non-lethal
ammunition: NERF(r) bullets!"

*lol*

How about NERF bullets impregnated with a
DMSO/something nasty cocktail? On impact, the rounds
would compress, squeezing out all sorts of juicy stuff
on the victim. Don't think they'd be laughing for
long. Course, you'd have to be VERY careful handling
them. :)

> Actually, I seem to remember something about
'simuslugs' from the Combat Biker stuff, but I don't
own any of those books.

Plastic rounds, or something - which is another
possibility for non-lethal rounds, aren't they? Soft
plastic rounds?

> > Maybe you need some more sleep. :)
>
> Zzzzz-snork- huh?

Yes...go to bed...remember, when you wake up in the
morning, the tooth fairy will have left a horse's head
under your pillow...

> > Maybe you also need a brain transplant. ;)
>
> Uh, yeah. I'm feeling a bit...
> .
> .
> .
> ...hey!

Too late? ;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

____________________________________________________________
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Get your free @*****.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
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Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Tue May 8 05:15:01 2001
According to Achille Autran, on Mon, 07 May 2001 the word on the street was...

> On a similar pattern, in the French edition of SR2, '53 petrochemical
> industry produced a bizarre sort of waste: plastic restraints. Or maybe
> there has been an overwhelming overproduction between 50 and 53, and now
> companies are emptying their warehouses. Anyway, plastic restraints were
> worth 0¥, nada, nib.

They probably figured, "Plastic restraints are just tie ribs, so why charge
money for them?"

> So you could start the game with, say, 150 tons of plastic restraints

I would have loved to have been able to exploit that little designers'
oversight :)

> 2- dip them in metallic paint and sell them as metal hand-cuffs. You'll
> always find stupid people to buy them. Kinda like "le Sausage in le Bun".

Sell them as toys to kids!

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 30
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Tue May 8 05:15:04 2001
According to Rand Ratinac, on Tue, 08 May 2001 the word on the street was...

> Honestly, I always saw them as the sci-fi 'needler'
> type ammo - little slivers of metal or possibly
> plastic. Otherwise, how do you explain how the damage
> is increased against unarmoured targets, but sucks
> against armour?

RL flechettes would be better against armored targets than against
unarmored ones, although there is a reason why they were never adopted in
the real world (actually, several reasons, but the one I'm talking about is
their much lower wounding potential).

> Of course, I've never seen that flechette shell thingy, so I can'
> comment on that.

Think of a shotgun shell containing a whole bunch of needles, each with
little fins at the tail to stabilize it in flight.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 31
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Tue May 8 05:15:10 2001
According to Rand Ratinac, on Tue, 08 May 2001 the word on the street was...

> The other possibilities are that 1) at the time when SR was designed,
> there were no 'real life' flechette rounds, so FASA had nothing to go on
> from real life (although that could be totally bogus as I have no idea
> how long flechette rounds have been in use),

It is totally bogus. The US Army did experiments with flechette rounds, and
rifles firing them, in the 1960s under the Special Purpose Individual
Weapon (SPIW) program. These were all rifles firing single flechettes, but
the shotgun flechette round was developed at the same time -- it was used
in Vietnam, for example.

> or 2) they decided that flechette rounds SHOULDN'T have 'shrapnel'
> effects, because the rounds are smaller than shotgun shells, thus
> packing in less darts and thus not having enough particles to do more
> than shred up a single target. Uh...if that makes sense.

Judging by other SR weapon rules, it makes as much sense as anything :)

> Plastic rounds, or something - which is another
> possibility for non-lethal rounds, aren't they? Soft
> plastic rounds?

Yes, although RL plastic rounds are dangerous for some distance from the
weapon (about ten meters or so). You also can't fire them from normal
self-loading weapons very well because they usually won't cycle the
mechanism.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 32
From: shadowrn@*********.com (bluedragon7)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Tue May 8 05:25:01 2001
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shadowrn-admin@*********.com
> [mailto:shadowrn-admin@*********.com]On Behalf Of Rand Ratinac
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:17 AM
> To: shadowrn@*********.com
> Subject: Re: 5,000 Nuyen Question
>
>
<snip>

>
> Honestly, I always saw them as the sci-fi 'needler'
> type ammo - little slivers of metal or possibly
> plastic. Otherwise, how do you explain how the damage
> is increased against unarmoured targets, but sucks
> against armour? Of course, I've never seen that
> flechette shell thingy, so I can' comment on that.

I saw the Viper as beeing like those Needler in BattleTech

Burst Fire
Silenced/Supressed
Heavy tissue damage, lots of pain
only survived if in heavy armor, or hit lightly


bluedragon7
Message no. 33
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Tue May 8 17:05:02 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

>>>Shut up, jerkwad!
>>>
>>Oh, yeah, fathead?! Why don't you make me?!
>>
> I could, you know...if your connection was of
> sufficiently high quality. I could fart and the smell
> would be transmitted over the line to your end,
> forcing you to hold your breath or suffocate.
>
> Really!

Looks like I'd better get out the hip waders; it's getting awfully deep
in here... Besides, you'd probably just torch the campus network, or
destroy the wiring (highly modern Cat 3.5!) in this building.


>
>>Actually, didn't the NAGtRL have info on Needle
>>ammo?
>
> Quite possible. Don't recall.

Well, you're no help at all.


>>Which matches up with FASA's description, but that
>> makes it a shrapnel gun of sorts, right?
>
> Right. A lot like those shotgun 'sabot' shells you
> showed


'kay.

> - although isn't sabot a misnomer in this
> instance?


Sort of, I think. 'Sabot,' of course, just means 'boot' (same root as
sabotage, which came from workers tossing wooden shoes into the works to
break the machines). The plastic sabot in those rounds seems to just act
as a wad (in a traditional shotshell) with slightly better seating for
the flechettes, so they're a bit more stable.


> The only thing I can think of is that FASA wanted the
> 'cool' factor of flechettes, but didn't want the
> headache of trying to make other weapons function in
> the same way as shotguns, and/or they wanted to make
> shotguns special with their shot effects for game
> balance reasons. <snippage>

Yeah, I'd go for that.


>
>>"Having recently acquired Hasbro toys, Ares Arms is
>> proud to introduce the latest in the non-lethal
>> ammunition: NERF(r) bullets!"
>
> *lol*
>
> How about NERF bullets impregnated with a
> DMSO/something nasty cocktail? On impact, the rounds
> would compress, squeezing out all sorts of juicy stuff
> on the victim. Don't think they'd be laughing for
> long. Course, you'd have to be VERY careful handling
> them. :)


Nah, the sponge round would come with a discardable plastic cap
(matching bit in the back, 'cause you don't want your powder soaked with
whatever you're soaking your sponge with). Pop off the cap, soak your
slug, pop the cap back on. If it doesn't fall off in-flight, it'll break
when it hits.


>>Actually, I seem to remember something about
>>
> 'simuslugs' from the Combat Biker stuff, but I don't
> own any of those books.
>
> Plastic rounds, or something - which is another
> possibility for non-lethal rounds, aren't they? Soft
> plastic rounds?


Not sure, exactly... They mimic the 'trajectory and speed of normal
rounds, but melt on impact'. From p125 of the Seattle Sourcebook (thanks
to John Penta for pointing that out).


> Yes...go to bed...remember, when you wake up in the
> morning, the tooth fairy will have left a horse's head
> under your pillow...

You lie! I woke up this morning and there wasn't anything under my
pillow at all!

...I feel gypped, now.


>>>Maybe you also need a brain transplant. ;)
>>...hey!
>
> Too late? ;)

Yeah, well. I'm graduating at the end of the month, even if I have to
resort to force to get a diploma:)

--
John Pederson
Message no. 34
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Tue May 8 23:30:01 2001
> Looks like I'd better get out the hip waders; it's
getting awfully deep in here... Besides, you'd
probably just torch the campus network, or destroy the
wiring (highly modern Cat 3.5!) in this building.

Yeah, man! You betcher ass I would!

> Well, you're no help at all.

Never claimed that I was. :)

> Sort of, I think. 'Sabot,' of course, just means
'boot' (same root as sabotage, which came from workers
tossing wooden shoes into the works to break the
machines). The plastic sabot in those rounds seems to
just act as a wad (in a traditional shotshell) with
slightly better seating for the flechettes, so they're
a bit more stable.

Well, duh, of course. :) I didn't have the time to
check the page out in detail - I thought they were
referring to the flechettes themselves as sabots. :)

> Yeah, I'd go for that.

Of course you would. Sci fi/cyberpunk games and
unrealistic cool factor go hand in hand. :)

> Nah, the sponge round would come with a discardable
plastic cap (matching bit in the back, 'cause you
don't want your powder soaked with whatever you're
soaking your sponge with). Pop off the cap, soak your
slug, pop the cap back on. If it doesn't fall off
in-flight, it'll break when it hits.

But who needs powder? The point is that you'd be using
something that no one would take seriously. You carry
a gun DESIGNED to fire NERF projectiles, so you don't
need powder. Same reason why you'd use a Super Soaker
with a DMSO/nasty stuff cocktail. :)

> Not sure, exactly... They mimic the 'trajectory and
speed of normal rounds, but melt on impact'. From p125
of the Seattle Sourcebook (thanks to John Penta for
pointing that out).

Actually, I was more talking about the real life
plastic rounds that riot departments use these days,
the kind of things Gurth was talking about.

> You lie! I woke up this morning and there wasn't
anything under my pillow at all!
>
> ...I feel gypped, now.

There you go...the tooth fairy left you a feeling of
gyppedness.

All praise the tooth fairy! Give thanks for her
bounteous gifts!

> Yeah, well. I'm graduating at the end of the month,
even if I have to resort to force to get a diploma:)

How about just buying one? :)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

____________________________________________________________
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Get your free @*****.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
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Message no. 35
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Wed May 9 00:50:01 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> Yeah, man! You betcher ass I would!

Feh. Like you'd be the first:P


>>Well, you're no help at all.
>
> Never claimed that I was. :)

Oh. Well, misconception on my part, then.


> Well, duh, of course. :) I didn't have the time to
> check the page out in detail - I thought they were
> referring to the flechettes themselves as sabots. :)
>
>
>>Yeah, I'd go for that.
>>
>
> Of course you would. Sci fi/cyberpunk games and
> unrealistic cool factor go hand in hand. :)




> But who needs powder? The point is that you'd be using
> something that no one would take seriously. You carry
> a gun DESIGNED to fire NERF projectiles, so you don't
> need powder. Same reason why you'd use a Super Soaker
> with a DMSO/nasty stuff cocktail. :)

Well, gee. I was just thinking about sponge foam slugs, myself.
Marketing NERF guns for riot control is lots funnier than I thought, now:)

Maybe you could put injectors of some sort into the foam darts. If they
penetrate the opponent's armor, he or she gets a 5cc dose of whatever
you might be carrying (ooo... MAO/Hyper! Or, for true loony value, mixed
batch: 50% loaded with LSD, 50% loaded with a safe dosage of caffeine,
for a nice placebo effect). Although, I suppose there's also the
distraction factor.

pop-pop-pop-pop! "Ah, I've been hit! Err..."
"Johnson, you moron, get up!"


> Actually, I was more talking about the real life
> plastic rounds that riot departments use these days,
> the kind of things Gurth was talking about.

Okay. I'm rather brain-fried (all-natural, I'm still sober.
Unfortunately:P)... I think that those just fall under the same heading
as rubber slug rounds, which you have heard some about from the
occasional human-rights violation in Israel. Rubber projectiles are
usually intended to be skip-fired into a crowd: point the weapon at an
angle towards the ground and the projectile loses a lot of its initial
kinetic energy. Or so I've heard, anyway.


> There you go...the tooth fairy left you a feeling of
> gyppedness.
>
> All praise the tooth fairy! Give thanks for her
> bounteous gifts!


Errr... something's awry here. I'm sure of it.

> How about just buying one? :)

I'm a college student. My net worth is negative, my gross worth (i.e.
cash on hand) is barely positive. I cannot afford to, whatever the price
might be. And I'm not sure that my employers would be pleased to find
that one out:)

--
John Pederson
Message no. 36
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Wed May 9 02:45:01 2001
> > Yeah, man! You betcher ass I would!
>
> Feh. Like you'd be the first:P

I'd be the first to do it via flatulence, though. ;)

> Oh. Well, misconception on my part, then.

And there you have it.

> Well, gee. I was just thinking about sponge foam
slugs, myself. Marketing NERF guns for riot control is
lots funnier than I thought, now:)

Ain't it just? :)

> Maybe you could put injectors of some sort into the
foam darts. If they penetrate the opponent's armor, he
or she gets a 5cc dose of whatever you might be
carrying (ooo... MAO/Hyper! Or, for true loony value,
mixed batch: 50% loaded with LSD, 50% loaded with a
safe dosage of caffeine, for a nice placebo effect).
Although, I suppose there's also the distraction
factor.
>
> pop-pop-pop-pop! "Ah, I've been hit! Err..."
> "Johnson, you moron, get up!"

*lol*

Personally, I prefer the NERF/DMSO/drug variant - I
can see all these called shots to the nose happening -
the NERF squishes on the target's face and...:)

> Okay. I'm rather brain-fried (all-natural, I'm still
sober. Unfortunately:P)... I think that those just
fall under the same heading as rubber slug rounds,
which you have heard some about from the occasional
human-rights violation in Israel. Rubber projectiles
are usually intended to be skip-fired into a crowd:
point the weapon at an angle towards the ground and
the projectile loses a lot of its initial kinetic
energy. Or so I've heard, anyway.

Well, yeah, but they're not EXACTLY the same as rubber
bullets (correct me if I'm mistaken, but I've heard
that rubber bullets are actually rubber around a metal
core), and thus could be another 'form' of gel rounds.

> > There you go...the tooth fairy left you a feeling
of gyppedness.
> >
> > All praise the tooth fairy! Give thanks for her
bounteous gifts!
>
> Errr... something's awry here. I'm sure of it.

Sing praises for your gyppedhood! Dance and sing and
pluck teeth willy-nilly!

> I'm a college student. My net worth is negative, my
gross worth (i.e. cash on hand) is barely positive. I
cannot afford to, whatever the price might be. And I'm
not sure that my employers would be pleased to find
that one out:)
> John Pederson

20 bucks on the internet...not that much, really...

;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 37
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Wed May 9 17:55:00 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> I'd be the first to do it via flatulence, though. ;)


That may be. I'm not certain of it, though.

> Personally, I prefer the NERF/DMSO/drug variant - I
> can see all these called shots to the nose happening -
> the NERF squishes on the target's face and...:)


pop! "Uh... whoa... my hands are so... big!"
<shadowrunners beat a hasty retreat>

> Well, yeah, but they're not EXACTLY the same as rubber
> bullets (correct me if I'm mistaken, but I've heard
> that rubber bullets are actually rubber around a metal
> core), and thus could be another 'form' of gel rounds.


*shrug* Might be. Been long enough since I've seen any info on them,
that I honestly don't remember.

>>Errr... something's awry here. I'm sure of it.
>
> Sing praises for your gyppedhood! Dance and sing and
> pluck teeth willy-nilly!


But I like my teeth. I'm not letting some fruity weirdo (or his/her
local employees) come in and take them while I sleep.

I'd be leaving ritual links all over the place! Geez!

> 20 bucks on the internet...not that much, really...
>
> ;)

Oh, I see. Here I was thinking that you meant a *good* diploma:)

--
John Pederson
Message no. 38
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Wed May 9 22:35:01 2001
> > I'd be the first to do it via flatulence, though.
;)
>
> That may be. I'm not certain of it, though.

Sounds like you've got a story to tell...;)

> pop! "Uh... whoa... my hands are so... big!"
> <shadowrunners beat a hasty retreat>

Yeah, and the best part is that the guard wouldn't
even have tried dodging when you shot him - he'd have
been too busy laughing when you pulled your NERF gun.
:)

> *shrug* Might be. Been long enough since I've seen
any info on them, that I honestly don't remember.

Whatever. :)

> But I like my teeth. I'm not letting some fruity
weirdo (or his/her local employees) come in and take
them while I sleep.
>
> I'd be leaving ritual links all over the place!
Geez!

Nobody said anything about them having to be YOUR
teeth...

> Oh, I see. Here I was thinking that you meant a
*good* diploma:)

As long as it doesn't say "Dodgy Brothers'
University", it should do. ;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 39
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Wed May 9 22:50:01 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

>>That may be. I'm not certain of it, though.
>>
>
> Sounds like you've got a story to tell...;)


Nah, just a crappy notwork.^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
Err... I didn't say that. The RHIT PR goons might come and snatch me
from my room I sleep O_o

Seriously, though, it's in the slow and painful process of a much-needed
upgrade. Too bad it didn't happen a year ago:P

>>pop! "Uh... whoa... my hands are so... big!"
>><shadowrunners beat a hasty retreat>
>>
>
> Yeah, and the best part is that the guard wouldn't
> even have tried dodging when you shot him - he'd have
> been too busy laughing when you pulled your NERF gun.
> :)


Might be more fun as a way to turn a Barrens neighborhood full of
homeless kids into a small and not-especially obvious army.

"Stop, mister!"
"Aw, that's cute, kid. Whatcha gonna do, shoot with your big 'gun'?"
"Yeah!" pop!

> Geez!
>
> Nobody said anything about them having to be YOUR
> teeth...


Oh. Well, hey, that's different. I'll borrow some from an unsuspecting
drunkard tomorrow. That should od.

> As long as it doesn't say "Dodgy Brothers'
> University", it should do. ;)

I don't know. Since I already have a job lined up, and they already know
where I'm supposed to be graduating from, they might be a bit suspicious
of that:)

--
John Pederson

Possible graduate of Whatsamattawit U?
Message no. 40
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Wed May 9 23:15:01 2001
> Nah, just a crappy notwork.^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
> Err... I didn't say that. The RHIT PR goons might
come and snatch me from my room I sleep O_o

Ah, ha ha ha ha haaaahhh!

You hear that, RHIT PR goons? John said your network
is crappy!!!

> Seriously, though, it's in the slow and painful
process of a much-needed upgrade. Too bad it didn't
happen a year ago:P

Ah, HA HA HA HA HAAAAHHH!

Sucker.

;)

> Might be more fun as a way to turn a Barrens
neighborhood full of homeless kids into a small and
not-especially obvious army.
>
> "Stop, mister!"
> "Aw, that's cute, kid. Whatcha gonna do, shoot with
your big 'gun'?"
> "Yeah!" pop!

Oooo, I like it...stuff Deus and the Renraku Arcology
- we'll use kids to take over SEATTLE!!! :)

> Oh. Well, hey, that's different. I'll borrow some
from an unsuspecting drunkard tomorrow. That should
od.

I'm sure the tooth fairy will be pleased by your
bloody obeisance. ;)

> I don't know. Since I already have a job lined up,
and they already know where I'm supposed to be
graduating from, they might be a bit suspicious of
that:)

C'mon, John, be inventive. Buy the $20 degree, scratch
out the name and write the name of YOUR uni on it.
That should do the trick.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 41
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Thu May 10 04:30:01 2001
<SNIPT>
<Oooo, I like it...stuff Deus and the Renraku Arcology
- we'll use kids to take over SEATTLE!!! :)>
</SNIPT>


There's a Children of the Corn campaign idea in there somewhere...I'm sure of it!

He Who Walks Behind the Matrix...
Message no. 42
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Fri May 11 17:50:01 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> Ah, ha ha ha ha haaaahhh!
>
> You hear that, RHIT PR goons? John said your network
> is crappy!!!

I hate you.


> Ah, HA HA HA HA HAAAAHHH!
>
> Sucker.
>
> ;)


I hate you so very, very much.

> Oooo, I like it...stuff Deus and the Renraku Arcology
> - we'll use kids to take over SEATTLE!!! :)


"Toys R Us remains under siege for the twenty-third day in what many
consider the strangest terrorist act in history. Others have likened it
to the Children's Crusade of the 13th century. When asked if this meant
that the children were likely to sold into slavery or killed by Muslims,
our source declined to comment."

> I'm sure the tooth fairy will be pleased by your
> bloody obeisance. ;)


Perhaps the tooth fairy is a blood spirit. Hmmm...


> C'mon, John, be inventive. Buy the $20 degree, scratch
> out the name and write the name of YOUR uni on it.
> That should do the trick.


I really think you underestimate the intelligence of my employers...
Either that, or I'm gorssly over-estimating it.

--
John Pederson
Message no. 43
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 14 21:45:01 2001
> > Ah, ha ha ha ha haaaahhh!
> >
> > You hear that, RHIT PR goons? John said your
network is crappy!!!
>
> I hate you.

Awwww...

> > Ah, HA HA HA HA HAAAAHHH!
> >
> > Sucker.
> >
> > ;)
>
> I hate you so very, very much.

AWWWWWWWW...

;)

> "Toys R Us remains under siege for the twenty-third
day in what many consider the strangest terrorist act
in history. Others have likened it to the Children's
Crusade of the 13th century. When asked if this meant
that the children were likely to sold into slavery or
killed by Muslims, our source declined to comment."

*Doc' falls down, laughing hysterically...*

> Perhaps the tooth fairy is a blood spirit. Hmmm...

Hmmm...the tooth fairy appears when (generally) blood
is spilled as a tooth is removed and demands a tribute
of the vic...uh...subject's body (the tooth) for its
service (money - the Wealth power, obviously)...

You could be onto something here, John...

> I really think you underestimate the intelligence of
my employers... Either that, or I'm gorssly
over-estimating it.

Must be the latter.

G'woooonn...buy it...scratch it out...write it
in...you can do it, John...yes you can...yes you can...

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 44
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 14 23:10:01 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> Awwww...


> AWWWWWWWW...
>
> ;)


Meh. You wouldn't think it was cute if sent Ewok assassins out to
eliminate you. Nobody ever suspects the cute, fuzzy things. Muahahahaha!
And there'd be no way to link it back to me, saving me from prosecution
for both criminal charges: murder *and* copyright infringement (I
understand Lucas is real touchy about such things...)

> *Doc' falls down, laughing hysterically...*


And, while you're vulnerable, the Ewoks!

> Hmmm...the tooth fairy appears when (generally) blood
> is spilled as a tooth is removed and demands a tribute
> of the vic...uh...subject's body (the tooth) for its
> service (money - the Wealth power, obviously)...
>
> You could be onto something here, John...


Hmmm... Did FASA ever publish that 'Boo! Scary' book? I think I'd like
to make a submission...

>> I really think you underestimate the intelligence of
>> my employers... Either that, or I'm gorssly

>> over-estimating it.
>
> Must be the latter.
>
> G'woooonn...buy it...scratch it out...write it
> in...you can do it, John...yes you can...yes you can...

Y'know, Doc', I'm thinking that you may be a Bad Influence.

--
John Pederson

"Chloroform the one you love..."
Message no. 45
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Tue May 15 22:55:01 2001
> Meh. You wouldn't think it was cute if sent Ewok
assassins out to eliminate you. Nobody ever suspects
the cute, fuzzy things. Muahahahaha! And there'd be no
way to link it back to me, saving me from prosecution
for both criminal charges: murder *and* copyright
infringement (I understand Lucas is real touchy about
such things...)
>
> > *Doc' falls down, laughing hysterically...*
>
> And, while you're vulnerable, the Ewoks!

Hmmm...tell me, how do Ewok assassins kill people? Do
they dance around, looking so cute that their victims'
synapses melt from the sickening, saccharine
sweetness?

> Hmmm... Did FASA ever publish that 'Boo! Scary'
book? I think I'd like to make a submission...

The Tooth Fairy of Doom? Don't forget to credit me - I
was the one who put you onto this in the first place.
;)

> > G'woooonn...buy it...scratch it out...write it
in...you can do it, John...yes you can...yes you
can...
>
> Y'know, Doc', I'm thinking that you may be a Bad
Influence.
> John Pederson

Would you like to see my certification? ;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 46
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Tue May 15 23:25:00 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> Hmmm...tell me, how do Ewok assassins kill people? Do
> they dance around, looking so cute that their victims'
> synapses melt from the sickening, saccharine
> sweetness?


Sticks and rocks, man. Sticks and rocks. Didn't you see Return of the
Jedi? They're the most effective weapons in the galaxy.

> The Tooth Fairy of Doom? Don't forget to credit me - I
> was the one who put you onto this in the first place.
> ;)


How should I credit you? "That One Aussie Bastard^H^H^H^H^H^H^HGent"?


> Would you like to see my certification? ;)

The fact that you're certified doesn't surprise me in the least.

--
John Pederson
Message no. 47
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Wed May 16 22:10:01 2001
> Sticks and rocks, man. Sticks and rocks. Didn't you
see Return of the Jedi? They're the most effective
weapons in the galaxy.

How pedestrian.

*sniffs disdainfully*

> How should I credit you? "That One Aussie
Bastard^H^H^H^H^H^H^HGent"?

That'd work. :)

> The fact that you're certified doesn't surprise me
in the least.
> John Pederson

I got class honours, y'know.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 48
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sat May 19 01:55:01 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> How pedestrian.
>
> *sniffs disdainfully*


That's what the stormtroopers thought. You know what happened to *them*.

> That'd work. :)


As long as we're on the same page, then.

> I got class honours, y'know.


Major in anything in particular, or just General Bastardry?

--
John Pederson
Message no. 49
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sat May 19 21:50:01 2001
> > How pedestrian.
> >
> > *sniffs disdainfully*
>
> That's what the stormtroopers thought. You know what
happened to *them*.

No no no...the stormtroopers thought the Ewoks were
PRIMITIVE. There's a difference. I acknowledge the
effectiveness of sticks and stones...I simply believe
they lack class.

> As long as we're on the same page, then.

*sound of page turning...*

> Major in anything in particular, or just General
Bastardry?
> John Pederson

General Bastardry is harder than you make it
sound...but yes, my major was Applied Smartassitude,
with a minor in Ironic and Bloody Irritating GMing.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 50
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sat May 19 22:35:01 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> No no no...the stormtroopers thought the Ewoks were
> PRIMITIVE. There's a difference. I acknowledge the
> effectiveness of sticks and stones...I simply believe
> they lack class.


It's a tribal thing. A very back-to-nature kinda style. You understand.


>>As long as we're on the same page, then.
>
> *sound of page turning...*


Now, where was I... Ah, yes, "Goats and --" What?!?! How'd I get here?!

>> Major in anything in particular, or just General
>> Bastardry?

>

> General Bastardry is harder than you make it
> sound...


Sorry. It's just that it's where lots of undecided jack-asses wind-up,
good and bad. I didn't mean to make it sound like a slackerly kind of thing.

> but yes, my major was Applied Smartassitude,
> with a minor in Ironic and Bloody Irritating GMing.


I'm going for a major in Slackitude. Grades ain't so hot, though: can't
get *anything* out of the Slack department. I'm really just an arm-chair
bastard.

--
John Pederson
Message no. 51
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Sun May 20 21:35:01 2001
> It's a tribal thing. A very back-to-nature kinda
style. You understand.

Next you'll be telling me loincloths are the height of
fashion.

Pfft!

I'll give you the number of my tailor. Make sure you
call him before you send your Ewoks after me. I will
NOT be murdered by naked midgets!

> Now, where was I... Ah, yes, "Goats and --" What?!?!
How'd I get here?!

Gee, how should *I* know?

Don't let me stop you, though. I'm sure you'd like to
have some...errr...kids...

> Sorry. It's just that it's where lots of undecided
jack-asses wind-up, good and bad. I didn't mean to
make it sound like a slackerly kind of thing.

Apology accepted. Now piss off.

> I'm going for a major in Slackitude. Grades ain't so
hot, though: can't get *anything* out of the Slack
department. I'm really just an arm-chair bastard.
> John Pederson

You do have to put SOME effort in to become a right
Slack-Arse, you know...

*shakes head despairingly*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 52
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John Pederson)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 21 02:00:02 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> Next you'll be telling me loincloths are the height of
> fashion.


Well, if you run with certain crowds, I suppose. Not my thing, though.


> Pfft!
>
> I'll give you the number of my tailor. Make sure you
> call him before you send your Ewoks after me. I will
> NOT be murdered by naked midgets!


But they're not naked! They have fur!


> Gee, how should *I* know?


You had that guilty sort of look about your text. You see, I just know
these things.


> Don't let me stop you, though. I'm sure you'd like to
> have some...errr...kids...


Now, now. I'm much pickier about my women than that.


> Apology accepted. Now piss off.


I could respond, but... Meh.

> You do have to put SOME effort in to become a right
> Slack-Arse, you know...
>
> *shakes head despairingly*

Isn't that against the fundamental rule of slacking? Admittedly, it's an
unwritten rule... And it's usually voiced as 'Meh'... But, still...
Message no. 53
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: 5,000 Nuyen Question
Date: Mon May 21 05:20:01 2001
On Sun, 20 May 2001 02:52:43 +0100 (BST) Rand
Ratinac?<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> General Bastardry is harder than you make it
> sound...but yes, my major was Applied Smartassitude,
> with a minor in Ironic and Bloody Irritating GMing.
>
> ====> Doc'

So that's where the title Doc comes from ... You know, most sane people
don't go further than a BA or the occasional MA in the field ... ;)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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