Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: alanchambers@*******.net (Alan Chambers)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:21:51 -0400
Does anyone know the approximate total Population of the 6th World?

Thanks
Alan
Message no. 2
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:29:53 -0700
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:21:51 -0400
"Alan Chambers" <alanchambers@*******.net> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know the approximate total Population of the 6th World?
>
> Thanks
> Alan
>
Classically, SR demographics are on a par with our real world, VITAS deaths,
and natural regrowth are supposed to balance. I wouldn't want to try to do a
more exact calculation. (specialized in pop and dem for my BA.)
That's supposedly why currant day roadmaps are still current.
--Anders
Message no. 3
From: shadowrun@******.com (PDV)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:36:41 -0400
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com
> [mailto:shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com]On Behalf Of Anders Swenson
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 11:30 AM
> To: Shadowrun Discussion
> Subject: Re: 6th World Population
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:21:51 -0400
> "Alan Chambers" <alanchambers@*******.net> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know the approximate total Population of the 6th World?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Alan
> >
> Classically, SR demographics are on a par with our real world,
> VITAS deaths,
> and natural regrowth are supposed to balance. I wouldn't want to
> try to do a
> more exact calculation. (specialized in pop and dem for my BA.)
> That's supposedly why currant day roadmaps are still current.
> --Anders

For typical regions, that would work fairly well, but certain other factors
may need to be considered. I always thought that the forced relocation of
non-natives in the 2020's by the NAN would rapidly swell certain population
centers beyond what they should have been capable of... so if a GM wants to
create an urban sprawl in a region where one currently doesn't exist within
UCAS or CAS, that would be an excellent catch-all type of explanation.

That would conceivably be one reason why Seattle was originally conceived of
having as large of a population as it did in the original source material.
After all, Vancouver is just a little ways north, and currently has a
population of over 2 million. Most of those people would have just been
migrated south a little ways.

Epilogue
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003
Message no. 4
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:02:02 -0600
At 09:21 AM 9/23/2003, Alan Chambers wrote:

>Does anyone know the approximate total Population of the 6th World?

Wordman came up with an approximation, and posted it on his web site.

http://www.divnull.com/lward/sixthworld/graphs/worldPop.html

National Geographic also has an interesting article on the subject.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/08/0806_population.html

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 5
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:27:01 -0700
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:36:41 -0400
"PDV" <shadowrun@******.com> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com
> > On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:21:51 -0400
> > "Alan Chambers" <alanchambers@*******.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know the approximate total Population of the 6th World?
> > Classically, SR demographics are on a par with our real world,
> > VITAS deaths, and natural regrowth are supposed to balance. I wouldn't
> > want to try to do a more exact calculation. (specialized in pop and dem
> > for my BA.)
> > That's supposedly why currant day roadmaps are still current.
> > --Anders
>
> For typical regions, that would work fairly well, but certain other factors
> may need to be considered. I always thought that the forced relocation of
> non-natives in the 2020's by the NAN would rapidly swell certain population
> centers beyond what they should have been capable of... so if a GM wants to
> create an urban sprawl in a region where one currently doesn't exist within
> UCAS or CAS, that would be an excellent catch-all type of explanation.
>
> That would conceivably be one reason why Seattle was originally conceived
> of
> having as large of a population as it did in the original source material.
> After all, Vancouver is just a little ways north, and currently has a
> population of over 2 million. Most of those people would have just been
> migrated south a little ways.
>
> Epilogue

Well, the NAN folks suffered from VITAS, too. BTW, why would you want any
more sprawls?

--Anders
Message no. 6
From: shadowrun@******.com (PDV)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:01:46 -0400
> -----Original Message-----
> >
> > For typical regions, that would work fairly well, but certain
> other factors
> > may need to be considered. I always thought that the forced
> relocation of
> > non-natives in the 2020's by the NAN would rapidly swell
> certain population
> > centers beyond what they should have been capable of... so if a
> GM wants to
> > create an urban sprawl in a region where one currently doesn't
> exist within
> > UCAS or CAS, that would be an excellent catch-all type of explanation.
> >
> > That would conceivably be one reason why Seattle was originally
> conceived
> > of
> > having as large of a population as it did in the original
> source material.
> > After all, Vancouver is just a little ways north, and currently has a
> > population of over 2 million. Most of those people would have just been
> > migrated south a little ways.
> >
> > Epilogue
>
> Well, the NAN folks suffered from VITAS, too. BTW, why would you want any
> more sprawls?
>
> --Anders

Well, when I first started GMing, I lived in London, Ontario, and both
myself and my players thought it would be fun to center the campaign in
London. We knew the area, so it would be more entertaining. But how to turn
a city of 300,000 (back in 1990 anyways) into an urban sprawl that would be
able to support an entire free-flowing concept campaign... After all, little
to none of the source material mentioned Ontario at all, and Toronto is the
economic center of Canada. To assume that just disappeared completely was a
bit much. There has been a mention I think (once) of `The Great Lakes
Sprawl` in one of the later books (pre-Fan Pro). Perhaps there has been some
more material related to Ontario in the Fan Pro sourcebooks, but I haven't
been able to afford buying any of them recently... oh well... Now that I am
looking to start GMing again, gonna blow the dust of the old
`work-in-progress` sourcebooks and see if they are still worth working on.

Epilogue

Epilogue
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003
Message no. 7
From: alanchambers@*******.net (Alan Chambers)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:49:18 -0400
I asked a friend that has most of the books to provide me with some figures,
here's what he came up with.
>From the NAN books (2052?) a approximate total of 110 million. really
shocking considering the 2000 US census figures American Indians is about
2.75 million. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised since on NAN rules I
qualify as a Cherokee.
Tir Tairngire 5.61 million (2054)
UCAS (2050 from NAGNA) 173 million + 3-4 Million SINless
I have No figures for Azltan, CAS, Caribbean League or Quebec, Let alone
Europe or Asia

In this century the US had a Population of app 288 Million, Canada 31.4 and
Mexico 105 million.

Alan


-----Original Message-----
From: shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com
[mailto:shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com]On Behalf Of PDV
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 3:02 PM
To: Shadowrun Discussion
Subject: RE: 6th World Population


> -----Original Message-----
> >
> > For typical regions, that would work fairly well, but certain
> other factors
> > may need to be considered. I always thought that the forced
> relocation of
> > non-natives in the 2020's by the NAN would rapidly swell
> certain population
> > centers beyond what they should have been capable of... so if a
> GM wants to
> > create an urban sprawl in a region where one currently doesn't
> exist within
> > UCAS or CAS, that would be an excellent catch-all type of explanation.
> >
> > That would conceivably be one reason why Seattle was originally
> conceived
> > of
> > having as large of a population as it did in the original
> source material.
> > After all, Vancouver is just a little ways north, and currently has a
> > population of over 2 million. Most of those people would have just been
> > migrated south a little ways.
> >
> > Epilogue
>
> Well, the NAN folks suffered from VITAS, too. BTW, why would you want any
> more sprawls?
>
> --Anders

Well, when I first started GMing, I lived in London, Ontario, and both
myself and my players thought it would be fun to center the campaign in
London. We knew the area, so it would be more entertaining. But how to turn
a city of 300,000 (back in 1990 anyways) into an urban sprawl that would be
able to support an entire free-flowing concept campaign... After all, little
to none of the source material mentioned Ontario at all, and Toronto is the
economic center of Canada. To assume that just disappeared completely was a
bit much. There has been a mention I think (once) of `The Great Lakes
Sprawl` in one of the later books (pre-Fan Pro). Perhaps there has been some
more material related to Ontario in the Fan Pro sourcebooks, but I haven't
been able to afford buying any of them recently... oh well... Now that I am
looking to start GMing again, gonna blow the dust of the old
`work-in-progress` sourcebooks and see if they are still worth working on.

Epilogue

Epilogue
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003
Message no. 8
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:58:51 -0700
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:01:46 -0400
"PDV" <shadowrun@******.com> wrote:
[snip]

Now that I am
> looking to start GMing again, gonna blow the dust of the old
> `work-in-progress` sourcebooks and see if they are still worth working on.
>
> Epilogue
>
Well, if you get someting gook, post it! (sounds great)
--Anders
Message no. 9
From: kimgoyret@*****.es (Jong-Won Kim)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:38:25 -0500 (CDT)
Maybe it was forgotten by the current developers, but
the Tir Tairngire books stated (in a very nice
shadowpost) the world population (circa 2054) was
about 3 billions. Of course, since it was shadowtalk,
it can be disregarded, but still...

BTW: Isolation at concentration camps shielded most of
the Native Americans from VITAS.

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Información de Estados Unidos y América Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias.
Visítanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com
Message no. 10
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:48:45 +0200
According to Alan Chambers, on Tuesday 23 September 2003 21:49 the word on
the street was...

> From the NAN books (2052?) a approximate total of 110 million. really
> shocking considering the 2000 US census figures American Indians is
> about 2.75 million. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised since on NAN
> rules I qualify as a Cherokee.

The NAN books (I think) do mention that the rules used by the NAN to
determine native American heritage are a lot less strict than those
applied today, in order to build up a population as quickly as possible.
However, I think it was Wordman who, some years back, did some calculating
and figured out that the NAN population figures are far too high to be
realistic even then.

But hey, it _is_ still a game :)

> I have No figures for Azltan, CAS, Caribbean League or Quebec, Let alone
> Europe or Asia

I'll let you in on a secret: the population figures for Europe in SR are
very similar to those of today.

<GridSec>
BTW, could you please reply _after_ the quoted material, and trim that to
only the bits relevant to your reply? TIA :)
</GridSec>

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't you know you know what's right?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Simonwentw2000@***.com (Simonwentw2000@***.com)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:16:58 -0400
Remember to apply VITAS into the equation.
Message no. 12
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: 6th World Population
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:39:48 -0700
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:16:58 -0400
Simonwentw2000@***.com wrote:
> Remember to apply VITAS into the equation.

Of course. That's why SR world population is even close to what it is now.
--Anders

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about 6th World Population, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!