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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott W)
Subject: "Abort chase...the perp's gone into McHugh's"
Date: Tue Feb 20 07:00:01 2001
> As for Lofwyr roasting traitors, I guess that for most megacorps,
spying/national treachery is among the most serious crimes, often
leading to death penalty.

You know, I just got Lone Star (WOOHOO!) and read the stupidest
thing in there... it mentioned, during a bit about
extraterritoriality, that corps would often ignore crimes like murder
as long as the employee was performing well, but you'd get the death
penalty for bouncing a check :P I'm hoping that was shadowtalk, and
dumb shadowtalk at that.
Anyway, my main question is does anyone have any idea whether
there's pressure for corps to 'extradite' people to the governemnts
and vice versa? It would seem that the presented model of being able
to skip out on justice by crossing a corporate border is a little
unrealistic. But maybe I'm naive :)

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Simon and Fiona)
Subject: "Abort chase...the perp's gone into McHugh's"
Date: Tue Feb 20 07:55:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 11:05 PM
Subject: "Abort chase...the perp's gone into McHugh's"


>> You know, I just got Lone Star (WOOHOO!) and read the stupidest
>thing in there... it mentioned, during a bit about
>extraterritoriality, that corps would often ignore crimes like murder
>as long as the employee was performing well, but you'd get the death
>penalty for bouncing a check :P I'm hoping that was shadowtalk, and
>dumb shadowtalk at that.

Probably not so simple as that. Someone who ate his wife might be a good
accountant, but would be a bad employee. Crimes involving property or
posessions would be punished more harshly than crimes of violence, but the
employee would have to be _really_ good at their job for major crimes to be
overlooked. In other words, it's the board of directors that are the really
sociopathic ones.

> Anyway, my main question is does anyone have any idea whether
>there's pressure for corps to 'extradite' people to the governemnts
>and vice versa?

Yep, there's pressure, it's called shadowrunners :)
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Steffens)
Subject: "Abort chase...the perp's gone into McHugh's"
Date: Tue Feb 20 08:45:00 2001
From: Scott W

> Anyway, my main question is does anyone have any idea
> whether there's pressure for corps to 'extradite' people
> to the governemnts and vice versa? It would seem that the
> presented model of being able to skip out on justice by
> crossing a corporate border is a little unrealistic.
> But maybe I'm naive :)

I think they might get away with it for small crimes, but
not much more. There's a few things to consider here:

a. The building is usually completely surrounded by national
space, so even if they don't want to release the perp to
the police, he/she is going to be stuck in there for a long
time. Escape by helicopter? Forced down over UCAS airspace!
Another thing that follows from A. is that the power & water
supply can be cut at any time to increase the pressure.

b. The corporation benefits from having a good relation with
the main country they're in, it's a delicate power balance
and tipping it too much might upset a lot of things. So it
figures that they would release serious criminals to the
authorities, just like most countries will extradite to other
countries (with the usual maze of legal crap going on before
anything happens). Of course that might not be the case if
it's someone important, but in that case they should be at
least try to get the conviction squashed or to buy it off
through the usual channels, instead of flatly refusing to
co-operate.

Martin
- Spend the rest of my life in McHughs!? I surrender! -
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Doug Browne)
Subject: "Abort chase...the perp's gone into McHugh's"
Date: Tue Feb 20 09:30:01 2001
"Martin Steffens" <marste@*********.com> said:

>...There's a few things to consider here:
>
>a. The building is usually completely surrounded by national
>space, so even if they don't want to release the perp to
>the police, he/she is going to be stuck in there for a long
>time. Escape by helicopter? Forced down over UCAS airspace!
>Another thing that follows from A. is that the power & water
>supply can be cut at any time to increase the pressure.

Thus the reasoning behind the Renraku Arcology having its own
supplies of same. This indicates to me that Renraku was trying
to gain independence from that national space, or at least that
capability, which would likely be close enough (why bother to
cut off their power if you know they can generate their own for
the forseeable future?).

>b. The corporation benefits from having a good relation with
>the main country they're in, it's a delicate power balance
>and tipping it too much might upset a lot of things. So it
>figures that they would release serious criminals to the
>authorities, just like most countries will extradite to other
>countries (with the usual maze of legal crap going on before
>anything happens). Of course that might not be the case if
>it's someone important, but in that case they should be at
>least try to get the conviction squashed or to buy it off
>through the usual channels, instead of flatly refusing to
>co-operate.

Of course, and you may see conditional extraditions, as well,
similar in concept to the Lybian bombers being tried in Scotland.
"Of course, we all know that no Fuchi employee can get a fair
trial in a Seattle court dominated by our corporate rivals.
Only a trial in another city (where nobody's heard about the
series of gruesome murders in Seattle) could possibly be fair."

--Dejaffa
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Andrew Murdoch)
Subject: "Abort chase...the perp's gone into McHugh's"
Date: Tue Feb 20 10:00:01 2001
- Scott W <03:59/20-Feb-2001>

> Anyway, my main question is does anyone have any idea whether
> there's pressure for corps to 'extradite' people to the governemnts
> and vice versa? It would seem that the presented model of being able
> to skip out on justice by crossing a corporate border is a little
> unrealistic. But maybe I'm naive :)

I imagine that, since corps and nations run on pretty much the same rules
in the 2060's, a nation threatening to sanction imports from a particular
corp would make them sit up and take notice (and kick the guy out real
quick).

--
Hail, Centurion!
Andrew C. Murdoch
toreador@***.bc.ca
http://members.nbci.com/corvisraven
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wordman)
Subject: "Abort chase...the perp's gone into McHugh's"
Date: Tue Feb 20 10:45:04 2001
> does anyone have any idea whether
> there's pressure for corps to 'extradite' people to the governemnts
> and vice versa?

Depends on the person, the crime, the corp and the government. A guideline
for the GM is this: a corp will refuse extradition requests if and only if
controlling the perpetrator gains them more than the public relations costs
of spin control of the incident (if any) and the cost of repairing the
damage in the relation with the government.

Further Reading

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!