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Message no. 1
From: MR DELIVAN S HARDERS <YUBM21A@*******.COM>
Subject: About Shadowtech
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 15:51:15 EST
On 20 Feb 95, Jani Fikouras wrote;

Shadowtech isn't bad, but not worth the money. It's good for keeping
munchkins happy though.

In reply, I would like to take this opportunity to say that the
Shadowtech book is still the deadliest book available for cyberware and of
course bioware. Just as a good example; Reaver is a grade 6 initiate (soon
to be 7) with (among other things) encephalon 3, cerebral booster, and
trauma damper *big evil grin*. I am usually faster than some people with a
grade or two over me, not that I meet many these days. The culmination of
bio/cyberware in Reaver has been enough to give most insect shamans night-
mares. Goddess knows he's fragged enough of em. Never underestimate the
power of the Shadowtech sourcebook. It's still the best available.

-Reaver
Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 13:45:04 +0930
>
> On 20 Feb 95, Jani Fikouras wrote;
>
> Shadowtech isn't bad, but not worth the money. It's good for keeping
> munchkins happy though.
>
> In reply, I would like to take this opportunity to say that the
> Shadowtech book is still the deadliest book available for cyberware and of
> course bioware. Just as a good example; Reaver is a grade 6 initiate (soon
> to be 7) with (among other things) encephalon 3, cerebral booster, and
> trauma damper *big evil grin*. I am usually faster than some people with a
> grade or two over me, not that I meet many these days. The culmination of
> bio/cyberware in Reaver has been enough to give most insect shamans night-
> mares. Goddess knows he's fragged enough of em. Never underestimate the
> power of the Shadowtech sourcebook. It's still the best available.
>

If you play with initiates (especially at the damn high level of 6 or 7),
then you're a major magical force, and other major magical forces are going
to come after you. I'd expect initiates of at least level 5 and up to be
gunning for you every so often, and when they cast spells that would kill
you 'cause of your low Magic Rating, you might regret that cyberware. Not
to mention when it comes round to banishing those nasty Force 10 Insect
Spirits.

Anyway, cybering up a mage is pure munchkinism anyway, if you go past minor
mods.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 3
From: MR DELIVAN S HARDERS <YUBM21A@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 15:35:25 EST
Robert Watkins wrote on 21 Feb 95;

>If you play with initiates (especially at the damn high level of 6 or 7),
>then you're a major magical force and other major magical forces are going
>to be coming after you. I'd expect initiates of at least level 5 and up
>to be gunning for you every so often, and when they cast spells that would
>kill you beacuse of your low magic rating, you might regret that
>cyberware. Not to mention when it comes around to banishing those nasty
>force 10 insect spirits.

In reply, I would like to note that my magician has a base magic rating
of 6 (modified to 13). Between cyberware and quickenings, there's not a
single stat under 7. Add magic attribute to that for shielding and he has
stats that are pretty well invulnerable. The cyberware that others
consider and bad choice will allow him to dance around those level 5
initiates in astral space before they realize what's going on, not to
mention a trauma damper to help with the drain on spells. As for force 10
insect spirits. Been there, done it, cleaved it in two. His weapon foci
with damaging manipulations anchored to them give him the edge on spirits,
not to mention certain spirit affecting spells. Never discount the edge
that cyber/bioware can give your mage. It can be one of the best survival
messures you can add, if done in moderation (and at beta or cultured levels
to boot).

-Reaver
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 15:26:53 -0600
So, basically, he's a munchkin.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I am Pentium of Borg
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> you will be approximated
Message no. 5
From: Sean Sheridan <sean@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 16:45:42 -0600
One thing about claiming invulnerability is that it makes those
young yahoos out there want to gun you down. No matter how tough you are
all those pretty quickened spells and anchored spells and spell locks and
focis can be gunned down from Astral Space in your sleep. And with Fireballs
coming through your rings and things you loose alot of property. I agree on
the principle of better living through cyberware, but don't let it go to
your head. A greater dragon might show up and decide that your the perfect
ingredient to that force 17 tooth sharpening foci he was making...
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 14:43:57 +0930
> In reply, I would like to note that my magician has a base magic rating
> of 6 (modified to 13).

Modified how? Foci? Those foci would die very quickly in an astral assault.

> Between cyberware and quickenings, there's not a
> single stat under 7.

See above for those quickenings.

> Add magic attribute to that for shielding and he has
> stats that are pretty well invulnerable. The cyberware that others
> consider and bad choice will allow him to dance around those level 5
> initiates in astral space before they realize what's going on, not to
> mention a trauma damper to help with the drain on spells.

> As for force 10
> insect spirits. Been there, done it, cleaved it in two. His weapon foci
> with damaging manipulations anchored to them give him the edge on
spirits,

What weapon foci with damaging manipulations? (See above.)

> not to mention certain spirit affecting spells. Never discount the edge
> that cyber/bioware can give your mage. It can be one of the best
survival
> messures you can add, if done in moderation (and at beta or cultured
levels
> to boot).

Ah... beta cyberware is the mark of the TRUE munchkin mage. Sorry,
Reaver... :)

Also, don't discount sensible tactics. Okay, say you piss off a hive
(sticking with the insect spirit example). They look at you, and see you're
pretty tough. So they don't send one, they send, oh, eight. Astrally.
Taking out your foci first. With watchers around you to notice when you are
asleep (wait... I bet you sleep inside a ward, too), or at least not
astrally perceiving. Still feel cocky? (Remeber in Melee combat, you get a
-1 to TN for every guy on your side and a +1 for every guy on their side?
Feel like fighting with a base TN of 12, while even when Seriously wounded
the bugs only need twos? Not to mention the god awful stats of Force 10
spirits.

Heck, a non-initiate hermetic with a Charisma of 6 and nuyen to burn (36000
nuyen, to be precise) could probably take you out. Especially if he's
hanging back a bit using those extra services to heal them. Certainly a
group of mages could burn you.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 7
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 14:45:43 +0930
Fearless Leader writes:
> So, basically, he's a munchkin.
>

I thought that was my line? (BTW, does anyone know of a way to make elm do
the attributions?)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 8
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 14:53:15 +0930
>
> One thing about claiming invulnerability is that it makes those
> young yahoos out there want to gun you down.

No, no, no... it makes the GM want to gun you down. The real trick here is
actually building it into the story line. The only really invulnerable
player is the one who manages to think up realistic ways to stay alive,
provided you've got a decent GM.

Take Reaver for example. As a GM, I wouldn't sic those 8 Force 10 Fly
Spirits on him any old time. I'd rig up an adventure where, if the players
didn't move with subtlety, they'd piss off a hive (Hey, this reminds me:
the first time I played the UB as a group (OOPS: SPOILER ALERT!!)

Anyway, the first time I GM'ed UB, one of the players FILMED the whole
thing, and sent it off to a pirate trid. Now, forget about the possibility
of evidence here to use against them, anyone want to guess the chance that
the UB watch those pirate trids as well?)

Random death is dull and boring. Well meaning, constructed death that helps
the plotline can actually be worthwile. (Try lighter penalties first,
though)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 9
From: MR DELIVAN S HARDERS <YUBM21A@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 02:31:16 EST
In reply to Robert Watkins;

I realize that a mage (or group thereof) could try to take someone out
when they were asleep, especially through locks, but then that's what
spirits are all about. Nice to have early warning sensors set up to give
you the time required to burn them first. As for a non-initiate using
spirits to attack an initiate, initiates have a good chance of taking
control of the non-initiates spirits. The foci are protected by specific
spell barriers and masked by the way. I agree it's possible, but not
probable. Beta cyberware is the only way to go for a mage by the way. I
don't usually take on insects by myself, I'm not THAT cocky :) I agree
that cyberware and bioware isn't for everyone, but for those who like it,
it's a nice edge. Oh, one other thing, it's hard to see a lock or
quickening when there's astral static in the air (of course you could take
that down first in which case I know you're there that much sooner :) ).

-Reaver
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:13:57 +0100
>The cyberware that others
>consider and bad choice will allow him to dance around those level 5
>initiates in astral space before they realize what's going on, not to
>mention a trauma damper to help with the drain on spells.

I seem to recall Shadowtech saying that bioware doesn't affect astral
abilities, and SRII saying that cyber or bioware gives no bonuses on the
astral plane...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I want you to remember...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 11
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 19:53:52 +0930
Once upon a time, Gurth wrote:
>
> >The cyberware that others
> >consider and bad choice will allow him to dance around those level 5
> >initiates in astral space before they realize what's going on, not to
> >mention a trauma damper to help with the drain on spells.
>
> I seem to recall Shadowtech saying that bioware doesn't affect astral
> abilities, and SRII saying that cyber or bioware gives no bonuses on the
> astral plane...
>

Maybe it says it in SRII, but in the Shadowtalk for the Cerebal Booster, it
mentioned that it sped up the guy's Astral speed. Even so, a good group
mugging will take down any cocky initiate.


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 12
From: Luc <rjwate01@********.SPD.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 08:48:32 EST
> I seem to recall Shadowtech saying that bioware doesn't affect astral
> abilities, and SRII saying that cyber or bioware gives no bonuses on the
> astral plane...
>
> Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
>
actually it says that encephalon and cerebral booster do affect magic and going
astral is magical, plus I remember reading somewhere about auras in SRII book
that essence cost of cyberware makes it part of your aura. Cybereyes do see
mana illusions and encephalons are usable in astral...


In my interpritation


Luc
Message no. 13
From: Code I Network Admin <Admin@*****.HQ.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 08:56:00 PST
On Tuesday, February 21, 1995 4:45PM, someone on owner-shadowrn said:
> One thing about claiming invulnerability is that it makes those
> young yahoos out there want to gun you down. No matter how tough you are
> all those pretty quickened spells and anchored spells and spell locks and
> focis can be gunned down from Astral Space in your sleep. And with
Fireballs
> coming through your rings and things you loose alot of property. I agree
on
> the principle of better living through cyberware, but don't let it go to
> your head. A greater dragon might show up and decide that your the
perfect
> ingredient to that force 17 tooth sharpening foci he was making...

This was one thing I did in **&* , the various magic items that called forth
(for
example) a 5th level fighter had a chance of calling one of the party
members
if they fit the criteria. Made for a great quest.

Carl
admin@*****.hq.nasa.gov
Message no. 14
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 01:16:24 +0930
Once upon a time, Luc wrote:
>actually it says that encephalon and cerebral booster do affect magic and going
> astral is magical, plus I remember reading somewhere about auras in SRII book
> that essence cost of cyberware makes it part of your aura. Cybereyes do see
> mana illusions and encephalons are usable in astral...
>
> In my interpritation

Cerebral Booster, yeah. Encephalon, no. (Matter of fact, I think it says
that in the encephalon description)

Why? The cerebral booster is flesh and blood, and can come with you. The
encephalon, and other cyberware, isn't, and can't. That simple. If it's
bioware, you can have it on the astral. If it affects your _Mental_ (not
physical) stats, then it has the effect on your Astral stats. One exception
I know of is tailored pheremones, which don't even affect members of other
species. (The glands come with you, but you can't smell on the Astral, so
it has no affect)


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 15
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:20:58 -0500
Bioware becomes part of the "natural" attribute, whereas cyberware is still
artificial...why do you think that muscle replacement doesn't help in astral
projection? Although some bioware doesn't help a character in some cases,
namely rigging and decking.
Tom Craig
Message no. 16
From: Sean Sheridan <sean@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:28:25 -0600
About Encephelons in astral space, I have to say that they do
work. Beyond the fact that it specificly says so in the description
is the fact that astral projection is a mental task. You think
about doing something and you do it. If your brain moves faster
ie. your intelligence is higher, you move faster in astral.
Other stuff, like wired reflexes or skillwire just dont apply though
because they effect your meat body, not your BRAIN.
Thats my read.
Sean
Message no. 17
From: MR DELIVAN S HARDERS <YUBM21A@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:34:58 EST
Gurth wrote on 22 Feb 95;

>I seem to recal Shadowtech saying that bioware doesn't affect astral
>abilities, and SRII saying that cyber or bioware gives no bonuses on the
>astral plane...

In correction, pg. 49 of Shadowtech states that the Encephalon does boost
magical ability. As for a section that states that bioware does help, I
couldn't find anything, but if Encephalon can boost it, cerebral booster
should as well.
-Reaver
Message no. 18
From: Blade Hunter <rjc5646@*****.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 21:06:14 -0500
Well, to be a tech junkie about the bioware/cyberware boosting of astral
stats, please note The Grimoire (15 ed, 2053...er, 2nd publicated release)
page 86, top of second column. Majority of common day implants
(everything else of note in the books so far) do not modify astral stats
when talking astral projection.

The way I've always figured astral projection, the higher brain functions
are vacated as the astral self moves off from the body. The body is left
there with the brain still keeping the body warm and all and the
cyberware doing its job on the vacant brain (which is pretty much sitting
there with a pattern for the astral body to slip back into...a pattern
which would prevent the everyday astral hopper from posessing the body
and taking it around for a joy-ride).

Uhm, get what I'm talking about?

-Blade____.... ... .. . . . .
Message no. 19
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:16:14 +0930
Once upon a time, Thomas W. Craig wrote:
>
> Bioware becomes part of the "natural" attribute, whereas cyberware is still
> artificial...why do you think that muscle replacement doesn't help in astral
> projection? Although some bioware doesn't help a character in some cases,
> namely rigging and decking.
> Tom Craig

Actually, Muscle Aug doesn't help in the Astral, either, cause your
physical strength has nothing to do with your Astral strength (based on
Intelligence as far as I can recall.)


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 20
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: About Shadowtech
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:32:24 +0100
> Actually, Muscle Aug doesn't help in the Astral, either, cause your
> physical strength has nothing to do with your Astral strength (based on
> Intelligence as far as I can recall.)

Of course it doesnt - that why elves rule the astral :)

Charisma - Astral strength
Willpower - Astral Body
Intelligence - Astral Quickness

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?

Further Reading

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