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Message no. 1
From: chrisw <chrisw@*******.TIS.ANL.GOV>
Subject: A Couple of Questions
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 12:00:43 CDT
Hello fellow Chummers,

I'm Chris Wesolowski and I'm a new reader to the
list so have patience with me please. Today, just a few
question for yall, some of them might just be common sense
but I have none so....

1) Regarding recoil modifies on FA bursts. To me it seems
that, when firing a FA burst of more than say 12 rounds at
multiple targets, the accumilated TN can get out of hand.
Recently, a new player of mine asked weather or not STR
effects recoil modifies. In effect, could a stronger PC
control the recoil better and not have as high of a TN.
I responded, by the rules, that strength has no effect on
recoil. But my question is WHY NOT? To me it seems
logical to assume that a strong PC can hold his weapon
on target longer than a weak one. So if anyone has any
reasons why STR isn't an accountable recoil modifier,
or suggestions as to how to implement this into the game
they would be greatly appreiciated.

2) Regarding credsticks and =Y=. Does paper money still
exist in 2053 or are all transactions done by credstick?
If paper money still is in use, how acceptible is it.
Can I go buy my groceries with paper and not arouse
susipicion? If only credsticks, how is =Y= transferred
between PC's? Are all credsticks traceable or can they
be unmarked. I've looked through the SRII handbook and did
not find any refrences to this question.

Thanks in advance,
C-Wes
chrisw@*******.tis.anl.gov
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message no. 2
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 14:28:32 -0400
On Thu, 23 Jun 1994, chrisw wrote:

> I responded, by the rules, that strength has no effect on
> recoil.

For rules on this see Fields of Fire...
>
> 2) Regarding credsticks and =Y=. Does paper money still
> exist in 2053 or are all transactions done by credstick?
> If paper money still is in use, how acceptible is it.

Paper is still around..however usually in limited use..sticks are much
easier and less bulky..there are all major currancies..as well as Corp
script which is normally only used in a Corp store but some is used
Extremely limited in and around that Corp by outsiders...

> Can I go buy my groceries with paper and not arouse
> susipicion?

yes...

If only credsticks, how is =Y= transferred
> between PC's?

With a credstick reader..public use ones are in ATM machines..although
portable ones are readily available..

Are all credsticks traceable or can they
> be unmarked.

EVERYTHING can be traced in one manner or another..However I believe you
are asking about Certified CredSticks..These are not attached to an
account and are easily emptied by ANYONE in possesion of it...

I've looked through the SRII handbook and did
> not find any refrences to this question.
>
See Sprawl Sites and the Neo-Anarchists Guide to Real Life...
----------------------GRANITE
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 14:39:12 -0400
>>>>> "C" == C Paul Douglas <granite@*****.NET> writes:

>> Are all credsticks traceable or can they be unmarked.

C> EVERYTHING can be traced in one manner or another..However I believe you
C> are asking about Certified CredSticks..These are not attached to an
C> account and are easily emptied by ANYONE in possesion of it...

Hate to break it to ya, chummer, but even certified stick leave a "paper
trail" behind them. The stick had to originate somewhere and the funds have
to come from someone's account--banks don't deal with paper or scrip. While
anyone can use a certified credstick they are by no means anonymous.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "The only way to deal with temptation is
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | to yield to it." --Oscar Wilde
Message no. 4
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 17:25:16 -0400
On Thu, 23 Jun 1994, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> >> Are all credsticks traceable or can they be unmarked.
>
> C> EVERYTHING can be traced in one manner or another..However I believe you
> C> are asking about Certified CredSticks..These are not attached to an
> C> account and are easily emptied by ANYONE in possesion of it...
>
> Hate to break it to ya, chummer, but even certified stick leave a "paper
> trail" behind them. The stick had to originate somewhere and the funds have
> to come from someone's account--banks don't deal with paper or scrip. While
> anyone can use a certified credstick they are by no means anonymous.

Yes, but it won't keep track of who _you_ are, only where the
'stik was used. So, while you probably wouldn't want to do a direct
transfer of funds into your own main account, it is only worthy of
paranoia when it is the bank themselves who are after you.
The idea I get is that any Fixer worth the title will be able to
accept certified cred and simply run it through their own laundering
methods in order to get the money transferred.
Message no. 5
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 21:31:57 -0400
>>>>> "Jai" == Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM> writes:

>> Hate to break it to ya, chummer, but even certified stick leave a "paper
>> trail" behind them. The stick had to originate somewhere and the funds have
>> to come from someone's account--banks don't deal with paper or scrip. While
>> anyone can use a certified credstick they are by no means anonymous.

Jai> Yes, but it won't keep track of who _you_ are, only where the
Jai> 'stik was used.

That's usually enough to get some kind of lead on who used the stick. And
once you've got that kind of tail it's hard to shake because you don't know
they're there until it's too late.

Jai> So, while you probably wouldn't want to do a direct transfer of funds
Jai> into your own main account, it is only worthy of paranoia when it is
Jai> the bank themselves who are after you.

If you believe that I've got some ocean-front property in Nevada to sell ya
:). Seriously, /any/ kind of trail can still get traced back to you if
someone's willing to work hard enough on it.

Jai> The idea I get is that any Fixer worth the title will be able
Jai> to accept certified cred and simply run it through their own
Jai> laundering methods in order to get the money transferred.

Most can, but it's not always perfect. Say you've got a tripple-A megacorp
on your ass big-time (you've /really/ pissed them off). They've managed to
get so far as to connect high-probability your certified funds to a certain
fixer. Normally they wouldn't lean on the guy, but they want you /really/
bad; so they send in their own bruisers. They'll get information out of one
way or another, and then you're as good as dead.

Check out Corporate Shadowfiles, they go all over this and the ways to
avoid getting tagged.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "I'd rather be a pig than a
fascist."
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | --Porco Rosso (The Crimson Pig)
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 14:49:25 +0930
>
> Hate to break it to ya, chummer, but even certified stick leave a "paper
> trail" behind them. The stick had to originate somewhere and the funds have
> to come from someone's account--banks don't deal with paper or scrip. While
> anyone can use a certified credstick they are by no means anonymous.
>
But they are a lot more anonymous than otherwise. Certified credsticks
aren't numbered (or, if they are, a good decker or electrician could
"change" it), so the only paper trail left is the fact that X drew out a
lot of cash, and Y put in a lot.
This is why they are so popular. They're analogous to the large briefcases
full of cash of an earlier era.


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers are around at 9 am,
it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 7
From: Gareth Owen <glowen1@*****.NHS.GOV.UK>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 12:35:17 +0100
> Hello fellow Chummers,
>
Hi Chris, welcome to shadowrn
>
> 1) Regarding recoil modifies on FA bursts. To me it seems
> that, when firing a FA burst of more than say 12 rounds at
> multiple targets, the accumilated TN can get out of hand.
Yes, they do (BTW: aren't most weapons limited to FA bursts
of 10 rounds maximum?) But yes a minigun is very, very difficult
to fire hand held.

> Recently, a new player of mine asked weather or not STR
> effects recoil modifies. In effect, could a stronger PC
There are rules for this in Fields of Fire, it's an optional rule,
but the gist of it is, if your STR is 5 (I think) you get 1 point
of recoil compensation, if your STR is 7 you get 2 points and so on.

Don't know about money, just guns.

GLO

--
Gareth Owen | Mail: glowen1@*****.nhs.gov.uk
Message no. 8
From: Doctor Doom <jch8169@*******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 16:01:23 -0500
Von Herrn Wesolowski:

> 2) Regarding credsticks and =Y=. Does paper money still
> exist in 2053 or are all transactions done by credstick?
> If paper money still is in use, how acceptible is it.
> Can I go buy my groceries with paper and not arouse
> susipicion?

This information is from a discussion I had with the Dark Lord on High:

Paper currency /does/ still exist in 2055. The UCAS, for example,
still issues bills and coins -- the usage of which probably is still
rather commonplace. The NAGNA provides exchange rates from dollars
to nuyen, although the exact figure escapes my memory at the moment.
As to the particulars of other nations, this would be be left to the
arbitration of the Game Master, barring evidence in the sourcbooks.

One point: Despite a few references in a some texts (novels and short
stories), the NuYen does NOT exist in any form other than electronic,
as it is the International Standard Unit of Currency. Hence, there are
no paper or coin denominations of the nuyen.


Colonel Count von Hohenzollern und von Doom, DMSc, DSc, PhD.

Doom Technologies & Weapon Systems -- Dark Thought Publications
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
<<<
[ Doctor Doom : jch8169@*******.tamu.edu ]
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"Attack, attack, and when in doubt, ATTACK!" -- Frederick the Great of Prussia
Message no. 9
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 16:36:50 -0500
Dottore Doom:

> the NuYen does NOT exist in any form other than electronic

A loss of faith in said currency would be rather devastating, then. I think
there has to be something physical associated with the NuYen.
Message no. 10
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:23:33 -0400
>>>>> "Gian-Paolo" == Gian-Paolo Musumeci
<musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
>>>>> writes:

Gian-Paolo> Dottore Doom:
>> the NuYen does NOT exist in any form other than electronic

Gian-Paolo> A loss of faith in said currency would be rather devastating,
Gian-Paolo> then. I think there has to be something physical associated
Gian-Paolo> with the NuYen.

The form of the currency doesn't matter when there's a major loss of faith
in it. Witness the great Depression in the US early this year.

Currency is an idea backed by a promise, regardless of the form it takes.
As long as people belive in the promise, the form doesn't matter.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "Our hero regains conciousness at the
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | feet of a sarcastic alien."
this space intentionally left blank | --Spaceman Spiff
Message no. 11
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:26:36 -0400
>>>>> "Rat" == Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox> writes:

Rat> The form of the currency doesn't matter when there's a major loss of
Rat> faith in it. Witness the great Depression in the US early this year.
^^^^
Take it as you like, but I meant century :).

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | An it harm none, 'do what thou wilt'
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | shall be the whole of the Law.
Message no. 12
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 22:20:27 -0400
On Thu, 23 Jun 1994, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> >>>>> "C" == C Paul Douglas <granite@*****.NET>
writes:
> C> EVERYTHING can be traced in one manner or another..However I believe you
> C> are asking about Certified CredSticks..These are not attached to an
> C> account and are easily emptied by ANYONE in possesion of it...
>
> Hate to break it to ya, chummer, but even certified stick leave a "paper
> trail" behind them. The stick had to originate somewhere and the funds have
> to come from someone's account--banks don't deal with paper or scrip. While
> anyone can use a certified credstick they are by no means anonymous.
>
Thank you for agreeing with me Rat..If you will notice the ALL CAPS of
the first word in my message..
-------------------GRANITE
Message no. 13
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 14:23:24 -0400
On Fri, 24 Jun 1994, Gian-Paolo Musumeci wrote:

> Dottore Doom:
>
> > the NuYen does NOT exist in any form other than electronic
>
> A loss of faith in said currency would be rather devastating, then. I think
> there has to be something physical associated with the NuYen.
>

Why would there have to be anything backing it up? Loss of faith in the
US dollar would be devastating too, but it never seems to happen. People
use it everyday, and the common person on the street never even thinks
about what supports his currency. He just buys his stuffers and goes
about his merry way.

Marc
Message no. 14
From: Joseph Cotton <Joseph.Cotton@*******.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 10:43:33 EDT
On Fri 24 Jun 1994, The Stainless Steel Rat writes:

>
> >>>>> "Gian-Paolo" == Gian-Paolo Musumeci
<musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
> >>>>> writes:
>
> Gian-Paolo> Dottore Doom:
> >> the NuYen does NOT exist in any form other than electronic
>
> Gian-Paolo> A loss of faith in said currency would be rather devastating,
> Gian-Paolo> then. I think there has to be something physical associated
> Gian-Paolo> with the NuYen.
>
> The form of the currency doesn't matter when there's a major loss of faith
> in it. Witness the great Depression in the US early this [century].

Actually, what I wonder about is how, only a few decades after a major
computer virus wiped out the world economy, and when it's "common
knowledge" that gobs of deckers are out there constantly trying to
shift data (which includes EFTs) around to their advantage (hey, just
watch the trid!); why anyone would trust a currency that only existed
as pulses in a computer.

Joe Cotton
Joseph.Cotton@*********.unc.edu
Message no. 15
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 12:05:57 -0400
>>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph Cotton
<Joseph.Cotton@*******.OIT.UNC.EDU> writes:

Joseph> Actually, what I wonder about is how, only a few decades after a
Joseph> major computer virus wiped out the world economy, and when it's
Joseph> "common knowledge" that gobs of deckers are out there constantly
Joseph> trying to shift data (which includes EFTs) around to their
Joseph> advantage (hey, just watch the trid!); why anyone would trust a
Joseph> currency that only existed as pulses in a computer.

It's not "common knowledge" though. The media paints a picture much
different from reality. Deckers are portrayed as a handful of slimy little
sons-of-bezelworts who get caught and geeked by black ice whenever they get
too close to "things they shouldn't." Or else they're Matrix cops who chase
down the criminals.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | An it harm none, 'do what thou wilt'
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | shall be the whole of the Law.
Message no. 16
From: Joseph Cotton <Joseph.Cotton@*******.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:43:29 EDT
On 27 Jun 1994, The Rat writes:

>
> >>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph Cotton
<Joseph.Cotton@*******.OIT.UNC.EDU> writes:
>
> Joseph> advantage (hey, just watch the trid!); why anyone would trust a
> Joseph> currency that only existed as pulses in a computer.
>
> It's not "common knowledge" though. The media paints a picture much
> different from reality. Deckers are portrayed as a handful of slimy little
> sons-of-bezelworts who get caught and geeked by black ice whenever they get
> too close to "things they shouldn't." Or else they're Matrix cops who chase
> down the criminals.

Well, not having my copy of Shadowbeat handy, I can't positive refute
(or confirm) this statement. But I vaguely recall that the 'current'
trend on the trid of trashing shadowrunners followed a spate of stuff
that had glorified them.

Joe
Joseph.Cotton@*********.unc.edu
Message no. 17
From: Gareth Owen <glowen1@*****.NHS.GOV.UK>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 16:16:27 +0100
>
> Actually, what I wonder about is how, only a few decades after a major
> computer virus wiped out the world economy, and when it's "common
> knowledge" that gobs of deckers are out there constantly trying to
> shift data (which includes EFTs) around to their advantage (hey, just
> watch the trid!); why anyone would trust a currency that only existed
> as pulses in a computer.
>
> Joe Cotton

Hmmm.
I asked an economist chummer of mine about this and his answer was
quite complicated. But consider how the modern banking system works.

Consider money laundering. A drug baron can take his drug money
shove it into an offshore bank somewhere, bounce it around the carribean,
send it to BCCI somewhere and bounce it back to a bank in his hometown and
lends it to himself.

What has happened? Have their been queues of men in suits at airports
with cases full of money chained to their wrists? No. It all happens
electronically.

A basic technique of banking is to pretend you've got 15 times as much
money as you really have. If everybody decided to convert their bank
accounts into something of actual value there'd be hell to pay.

Basically a lot of curency already only exists as electronic pulses.

There are banks in Poland (I think, don't take this as gospel) that use
cc:mail for money exchanges (allegedly). (I'm not paranoid, really I'm not)

GLO

--
Gareth Owen | Mail: glowen1@*****.nhs.gov.uk
Message no. 18
From: Joseph Cotton <Joseph.Cotton@*******.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 14:21:00 EDT
On Wed 29 Jun 1994, Gareth Owen wrote:

> >
> > [I wonder about the trust someone would put in a strictly
> > electronic currency.]
>
>
> [GO talks about money laundering via EFT's]
>
> Basically a lot of curency already only exists as electronic pulses.

Oh, absolutely. No argument (my wife works at a bank's operations
center). But that's not what I said. I didn't ask "Why do people
trust EFTs?" I said, "Why would people trust a *strictly* electronic
currency?" Even though my bank account (as meager as it is :) isn't
sitting a vault somewhere waiting for me to go pick it up, I at least
_know_ in my heart of hearts that I can get nice, tangible, solid
currency in my wallet, should I worry about that bank. Hell, it's
been that way (money only at a bank in a bookkeeping sense) since long before
EFTs became the norm. Ever see the 'run on the bank' scene in
_It's_A_Wonderful_Life_? When your parents can remember the Crash of
'29, are you going to want to risk having **every .1 nuyen you own**
vanish in a puff of smoke if another virus like that one gets loose?
I mean, it's not like you can keep a few hundred (or thou) squirreled
away in your futon against a rainy day. The closest you can come is
a certified credstick, and guess what? If the banks' systems have
been fragged enough that you're money's gone, they're probably fragged
enough that credstick isn't much more than a paperweight.

Joe Cotton
Joseph.Cotton@*********.unc.edu
Message no. 19
From: Gareth Owen <glowen1@*****.NHS.GOV.UK>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 17:59:14 +0100
> > > [I wonder about the trust someone would put in a strictly
> > > electronic currency.]
> >
> > [GO talks about money laundering via EFT's]
> >
> > Basically a lot of curency already only exists as electronic pulses.
>
> Oh, absolutely. No argument (my wife works at a bank's operations
> center). But that's not what I said. I didn't ask "Why do people
> trust EFTs?" I said, "Why would people trust a *strictly* electronic

Ah.
I see your point.

My job is system administration and I do not trust computers.
I also usually make sure I have cash on me when I travel
(technically I don't need it, my plastic will usually do, but...)

No. I don't know why people would trust strictly electronic
currency. If they were sensible they wouldn't I suppose.

Perhaps things work like that because the corps want it to?
just a thought.

GLO


--
Gareth Owen | Mail: glowen1@*****.nhs.gov.uk
Message no. 20
From: Brett Ryan Brown <calvinoi@*******.SCRI.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 19:05:53 EDT
>
> Hello fellow Chummers,
>
> I'm Chris Wesolowski and I'm a new reader to the
> list so have patience with me please. Today, just a few
> question for yall, some of them might just be common sense
> but I have none so....

Welcome to the list, chummer!

>
> 1) Regarding recoil modifies on FA bursts.
<Text deleted>
Well, there are rules about this in FoF (Field of Fire)
the Mercenary Sourcebook, but in my personal use, I go by the
following rules:
Every point of STR over 6 gives -1 to recoil modifier.
This doesn't work with all GM's, I know, but it works in my
adventures. Just my 2 =Y=.

> 2) Regarding credsticks and =Y=. Does paper money still
> exist in 2053 or are all transactions done by credstick?
Welp, nuYen, IMHO, exists solely in electronic form, whereas there IS
physical monitary units like dollar bills and such for specialized
currencies. The UCAS supports its own currency, as do other
independant nations. These are not necessarily equal in value to the
nuYen, though! Local currency like that just mentioned can be carried
in physical and data form.

Also, IMHO, there are two ways to exchange data nuYen. Either by
touching credsticks (electronically transfer the nuYen from one cred
to the other) or GIVE a credstick to someone (the nuYen on the stick
is given to the recipient along with its physical hold.)

L8TR, chummer! Have fun!

>
> Thanks in advance,
> C-Wes
> chrisw@*******.tis.anl.gov
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>


--
_/_/_/_/ _ calvinoi@freenet.fsu.edu/calvinoi@*******.tlh.fl.us
_/ | | _ _ NOTE: All of the above
_/ __ _ | | __ __ (_) _ _ ___ (_) text put there by me
_/ / _` | | | \ V / | | | ' \ / _ \ | | is SOLELY my _own_
_/_/_/_/ \__,_| |_| \_/ |_| |_||_\ \___/ |_| worthless blather.
Geek Code (v1.0.1): GU d(-) -p+ c++(++++) !l u e m*@ s/- !n(---) h- f+
w+ t+(+++) r+ y?
Message no. 21
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 18:53:13 +0100
On Sat, 9 Jul 1994, Brett Ryan Brown wrote:

> > 1) Regarding recoil modifies on FA bursts.
> <Text deleted>
> Well, there are rules about this in FoF (Field of Fire)
> the Mercenary Sourcebook, but in my personal use, I go by the
> following rules:
> Every point of STR over 6 gives -1 to recoil modifier.
> This doesn't work with all GM's, I know, but it works in my
> adventures. Just my 2 =Y=.

I'd personally use STR+BOD/2.

This allows large-massed bodies to offset recoil some. Face it, it
doesn't matter how strong you are if you are too light to keep from being
blown of your ass.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or Blue Earth County
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 22
From: Brett Ryan Brown <calvinoi@*******.SCRI.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Couple of Questions
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 22:16:53 EDT
>
> On Sat, 9 Jul 1994, Brett Ryan Brown wrote:
>
> > > 1) Regarding recoil modifies on FA bursts.
> > <Text deleted>
> > Well, there are rules about this in FoF (Field of Fire)
> > the Mercenary Sourcebook, but in my personal use, I go by the
> > following rules:
> > Every point of STR over 6 gives -1 to recoil modifier.
> > This doesn't work with all GM's, I know, but it works in my
> > adventures. Just my 2 =Y=.
>
> I'd personally use STR+BOD/2.
>
> This allows large-massed bodies to offset recoil some. Face it, it
> doesn't matter how strong you are if you are too light to keep from being
> blown of your ass.

Hmmm! Good point, oh Fearless Leader! This actually sounds GOOD!
Wowie! Well...I guess I'll try this out! Let us all hail great F.L. on
high! I thank you for your pearl of wisdom, robert, seriously.

-L8TR,
-Calvinoi MindFlyer

--
_/_/_/_/ _ calvinoi@freenet.fsu.edu/calvinoi@*******.tlh.fl.us
_/ | | _ _ NOTE: All of the above
_/ __ _ | | __ __ (_) _ _ ___ (_) text put there by me
_/ / _` | | | \ V / | | | ' \ / _ \ | | is SOLELY my _own_
_/_/_/_/ \__,_| |_| \_/ |_| |_||_\ \___/ |_| worthless blather.
Geek Code (v1.0.1): GU d(-) -p+ c++(++++) !l u e m*@ s/- !n(---) h- f+
w+ t+(+++) r+ y?
Message no. 23
From: Roger Ramirez chariot@*********.net
Subject: A couple of questions
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:08:47 -0400
Hi there. A while back someone brought up the topic of Autofire rules and
said they had their own set of house rules. Well I came up with my own I
would like some criticism from the people who have fired real automatic
weapons (I have not).

Instead of staging the weapons damage up for every three bullets and adding
one to the power for ever bullet I have decided to give an extra 2 dice for
every three bullets. IMHO (and I may be wrong) when you fire a burst or
full auto you have more chance of hitting that's why you get 2 extra dice.
I also believe that if you get hit by more than 1 bullet you will take more
damage, this also the reason for 2 dice, this way if you make 2 successes
you do more damage ie hitting with more bullets.

One of the reasons I came up with these house rules is cause if someone is
shooting at a vehicle with Armor of 8 with an UZI that does 6M IIRC and is
going full auto he does a damage of 16D meaning his bullets penetrate the
armor but if it was only one bullet then the damage would have been null.


Number 2: Damn I forgot my second question. Oh well when I remember I'll
write back... damn BTL chips.

-Chariot
Message no. 24
From: Scott Peterson lrdmtlyn@**********.com
Subject: A couple of questions
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:37:54 -0700
>
> Instead of staging the weapons damage up for every three bullets and adding
> one to the power for ever bullet I have decided to give an extra 2 dice for
> every three bullets. IMHO (and I may be wrong) when you fire a burst or
> full auto you have more chance of hitting that's why you get 2 extra dice.

Im not an expert but 6 years in the infantry and working several years
more in a class III show has shown me a few things. IMHO auto fire is
used for several reasons:

1. Anything not used in the support role (SAW's LMG's, MMG's and the
like) is mainly used to either saturate an area and force the enemy to
duck and cover or when used at close range to 'fill someone with lead'

auto pistols, machine pistols, smg's and some of the less accurate ar's
can do both of these well. When you get into the Accurate assault
weapons and battle rifles that are configured for select/auto fire you
bridge the gap to...

2. Support role weapons are used to lay a 'beaten zone' or cone of fire
on either a area target (Troops in open) or point suppression on a
single large target (vehicle, pill box, or my fave that dude using the
joystick connected to the Anti-Tank-Guided-Missle that is wire guided to
my apc)

To answer your point above you have to decide if its a saturate or fill
with lead accurately situation....seem to recall FoF having a excellent
rule for area suppression.

> I also believe that if you get hit by more than 1 bullet you will take more
> damage, this also the reason for 2 dice, this way if you make 2 successes
> you do more damage ie hitting with more bullets.

Ok lots of factors here....body armor physical and mental condition,
experience under fire, previous wounds and so on......they simulated the
effect of multiple hits well with the rules.

> One of the reasons I came up with these house rules is cause if someone is
> shooting at a vehicle with Armor of 8 with an UZI that does 6M IIRC and is
> going full auto he does a damage of 16D meaning his bullets penetrate the
> armor but if it was only one bullet then the damage would have been null.

here is where the rules break down....

But recall its just a graphic representation of what can happen in 3
seconds. Don't consider it the fact that one bullet does less/more
damage than 3 look at it like this....3 bullets can be more effective at
doing damage than one. See what i mean.

Scott
Message no. 25
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: A couple of questions
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:30:48 -0500 (EST)
On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Roger Ramirez wrote:

> One of the reasons I came up with these house rules is cause if someone is
> shooting at a vehicle with Armor of 8 with an UZI that does 6M IIRC and is
> going full auto he does a damage of 16D meaning his bullets penetrate the
> armor but if it was only one bullet then the damage would have been null.

FASA beat you to it, my friend. If you look at the rules for
shooting at vehicles, you will not that you compare the power level of the
weapon *before* autofire modifiers are factored in. As such, a vehicle
with an Armor value of 8 is *already* immune to a weapon with a base Power
Level of 6 regardless of how many rounds hit. Check out the relevent
sections (vehicular combat) in SR2, Rigger 2, or SR3 and you'll see what I
mean.

> Number 2: Damn I forgot my second question. Oh well when I remember I'll
> write back... damn BTL chips.

Sounds like a personal problem... ;)

Marc
Message no. 26
From: AndMat3@***.com AndMat3@***.com
Subject: A couple of questions
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:40:42 EST
In a message dated 3/21/99 10:18:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
chariot@*********.net writes:

> One of the reasons I came up with these house rules is cause if someone is
> shooting at a vehicle with Armor of 8 with an UZI that does 6M IIRC and is
> going full auto he does a damage of 16D meaning his bullets penetrate the
> armor but if it was only one bullet then the damage would have been null.

I think that this is wrong (but I'm not sure). I seem to remember that vehicle
armor (and hard armor) are immune to weapons that have a BASE damage code less
than their armor rating. But i'm not sure (and I'll sure that I'll be told if
I'm not).

andy
Message no. 27
From: Oliver McDonald oliver@*********.com
Subject: A couple of questions
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:35:27 -0800 (PST)
On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:08:47 -0400, Roger Ramirez wrote:

>Instead of staging the weapons damage up for every three bullets and adding
>one to the power for ever bullet I have decided to give an extra 2 dice for
>every three bullets. IMHO (and I may be wrong) when you fire a burst or
>full auto you have more chance of hitting that's why you get 2 extra dice.
>I also believe that if you get hit by more than 1 bullet you will take more
>damage, this also the reason for 2 dice, this way if you make 2 successes
>you do more damage ie hitting with more bullets.

Having fired autofire weapons I can assure you that you have it backwards. When firing
an autofire weapon in burst mode, you actually have a lower chance of hitting...

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://web2.spydernet.com/oliver/
-----------------------------------------------------------
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