| From: | K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: AD&D to Shadowrun.....(LONG!) |
| Date: | Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:25:26 EST |
atreloar@*********.COM writes:
>
> No, I haven't converted it... But my thoughts on the matter.
Just for note, I have a massive set of conversion rules from the first year or
so of my playing SR (I was still playing AD&D at the time).
> The SR rules system may seem to work well in an AD&D/fantasy setting to a
> limited degree. Just make up characters using SR's system, and play.
Many,
> many problems exist before it's totally playable, though, and here's just a
> few.
Slippers is right here, and the points he makes below are good ones to
consider. However, I'm going to go traipsing through these as he brings them
up.
> Now, that's all well and good while fighting other people, and the
> demihumans also. But you'd have to go over the other AD&D monsters with a
> fine tooth comb to convert them properly, and fairly.
Again true, except you may also run into a problem with the consideration of
Power for a particular character. No offense, but Fighter's IMO as they stand
in AD$D are not comparable to SR's Adepts or Street Samurai.
>For instance, a
> beholder could be rather tricky.
A goofy looking thing (Mutant) with multiple eyes, possibly based off of the
Octopus or Blowfish even (hey, it's a thought, right?? ;) Inherent powers of
Levitation, and each eye could have a number of powers.
Paralyzation (as a Paranormal Power)
Petrification (as a Spell or Power)
Fear (as Paranormal Power)
Dispelling (as a Sorcery Skill)
Flare (as Illusion Spell)
Magic Fingers (Psychokinesis as a Paranormal Power)
Destroy Matter (Make this a special ability as a Manipulation Magic doing "D"
damage to something)
Feeblemind (actually as a reduce Intelligence health spell in the new rules,
this could be fairly cool)
Those are some of the thoughts I remember off the top of my head. Give the
critter itself magic resistance, as well as the personal Levitation I
mentioned previously.
>What about the undead, and the cleric's
> ability to turn some of them some of the time?
There are now Undead in the world of SR, most notably the Voudon Zombies and
their kin (as well as the Corpse Cadavre in general). Using the Voudon rules,
those are a type of spirit, which can be defeated with Conjuring. Ever
thought of a reverse trick for a "Quest of Great Form"? Magician runs into a
collection of small beings, let's say 5 in all, and they have varying force
attributes (maximum is a 6 in this case). The magician goes to perform a
"Banishing Test", only in this case, he's going to try multiple little
critters in a single mighty action. His target number, in some of our rules,
is a 10 (base force of 6, plus 1 per additional spirit), and as a bonus
action, s/he performs a "quest of Great Form", with a target of 5 (the number
of spirits being targetted). This allows for the banishing to subjugate
multiple beings at the same time, AND it does have a second drain/damage code
that is involved.
>What about Giants,
They would be a trick, I do admit. However, when converting strength
attributes, we found it interesting that a 24-25 winds up being a 40 or so in
SR terms (that of a Great Western).
>and
> Living Walls
I am assuming you mean "Animate Living Walls" here. This may not be too hard
to pull off. A variation on the Ally formula, perhaps an as yet uncommonly
found type of spirit inhabitation. Also, "Animate" as a power possessed by a
being of any kind in SR could go towards a lot of tricks.
>, and the Lycanthropes
This one there are TONS of options for, anywhere from SR's Shapechangers to
the Loup-Garou in the PAoNA. I had always wondered what would happen if a
Shapechanger were to ever become infected with the same virus/disease that
creates the mentality/changes involved in a Loup-Garou.
Gosh folks, this is easy here...
>Mind Flayers, or psionics?
Actually, I'll answer both of these all at once. Awakenings gives variable
options on Psionic's rules as they could possibly exist, and they are
functional as they stand. IF you want something truly scarey, just give them
a rule about "Not Requiring Mana", and have at thee.
Mind Flayers, IMO, remind me of a construct from the Horrors in ED. As in, a
person or group of persons that are running about doing the work for some
powerful being who has worked great changes upon their physicality and
spirituality in some regard. I know we have always made jokes about
"Cthuhlhu" (sp???) and the Mind Flayers personally...
> There's
> Baatezu
EXTREME Shadow-type Free spirits working together in some kind of unknown
Agenda...
>and dragons
Well, Lofwyr get upset if you didn't remember him... ;)
>... The list goes on. Depending on how you view them,
> the only things that are easy to convert are normal animals and dragons.
> But even then, there's many, many different types of dragons in AD&D, and
> they all have different powers than a SR dragon.
Yes and no, depending on how you want to view them. to me, the AD$D dragons
are like the dragons in SR, as applying the "Mutant" rules from CalFree.
> Using a SR system, though, would really throw the balance of the game out.
> AD&D low level mages are weak; they have few hitpoints, are close to
useless
> with weapons, can wear no armour and have few spells.
Actually, one of these days, when I have a LOT of time, maybe I'll explain the
AD$D mage as compared to an SR mage, and see if everyone can get the idea of
how to reverse engineer them.
>They can't learn the
> harder and more powerful spells.
Yes, that it would. And within the Manasphere of Earth in SR, some spells
would simply not work at all.
>In a SR gaming system, it would require
> much work and checking of characters to stay within the bounds, by players
> and GMs alike. If you DON'T, then you run into problems.
Again, this I very much agree with AND have had experience in dealing with.
>Suddenly the
> warriors and thieves are outclassed even at low levels. There's no cyber,
> bioware, or cool guns for them to keep up with.
UNLESS someone comes up with a way to use the Drow stuff from several years
ago.
> Magic in AD&D works because the GM says it does. There's no point arguing
> whether spell X can do target something, because there's no logic behind
the
> magic, like there is in Shadowrun.
Ah yes, the one thing that I do truly enjoy. A spell design system.
Something that AD$D simply doesn't have the structure to pull off well.
>Making the SR equivalent of Teleport, or
> Shapechange, or any of the others that aren't detailed in SR would be time
> consuming, as the relative difficulty of casting spells in AD&D is much
> different.
Again, I do agree here. NOW IF MITS WOULD JUST COME OUT!!!
> Clerics receive their power from the gods. And it's a different type of
> magic to what the mages can use, in many cases very different. How to
> convert that?
Well, ignoring that entire first statement with regards to Shamanic magic,
sure.... ;P
> Magical weapons and items in AD&D work for whoever is using the item,
unlike
> SR where the foci need to be bonded.
Ah, but here's a thought. Could a sword simply be worked with stuff like
"Combat Sense" and a Weapon Foci rating, in which the two would be linked
together, so that when one is active, the other is as well?
I know this is suggesting a massive House Rule (go check out my Enchanting
Rules here), but IF that were possible, then the magical item that works for
every/anyone could become possible.
(yeah yeah, Dunkelzahn is turning in his proverbial grave)
> Mages of all types can astrally project in SR. Even phys ads can astrally
> perceive. AD&D has no equivalent, except perhaps the Ethereal Plane, and
> even that's not the same.
Now this I do agree with. The Astral Perception and Projection abilities of
the SR mage is a HUGE advantage IMO over the AD$D mages, which need special
spells. BTW, did anyone else notice after SR's magicians came about that
there were suddenly more spells in AD$D that gave astral access???
However, one AD$D book Mike B. and I still use with some frequency is the
Manual of the Planes. It's a great idea source for consideration of major
Astral Quests.
>Only a very few spells can do that, while there's
> no spells in SR (officially) that allow the mage or anyone else to do that.
Again, very true. However, the Astral Gateway power of a Free Spirit exists,
and that DOES allow for that kind of thing to be pulled off by even a Mundane.
> AD&D has the ability to go to other planes of existence. Other than the
> theories of parallel universes, there's no equivalent in SR except perhaps
> the astral planes.
Which are not fully mapped out even by SR's own admittance. I remember
reading the Voudon with regards to Guinee (the home place of the Loa) and
thinking "now there is a demiplane of power". And I'm sure there are others.
We have considerations for Valhalla, Olympus, Elysium and several other
"Metaplaces" as examples, and I am certain we are not alone.
> SR has it's flavour enhanced by riggers and deckers, able to control
> vehicles or surf the matrix seemingly at will. AD&D has neither a matrix
> nor vehicles of the sort a rigger could control. Taking the fast-paced
> information world that we live in out of the equation narrows the choices
of
> the players, and makes much of the SR rules system unusable.
I wouldn't say that it narrows the choices nearly as much as it causes a
heavier concentration on those choices...
> Combat as a whole is very different in the two systems. AD&D has the "Hit,
> miss, hit doing X damage" system, while SR gives the person a chance.
"You
> took a 6D. Subtract armour, and resist." With the many and varied weapons
> available in AD&D, it's a bit hard to simplify it down to "sword, doing
> str+X damage" under SR's system, as a lot of the flavour of AD&D could be
> lost by doing that here and elsewhere.
True, very true...and remains one of the nicer things about SR's combat system
IMO as well.
-K
