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Message no. 1
From: Chris Davies <rdac005@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Adepts and Mages
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 10:40:40 GMT
Hi again, not content with admitting that he's not sure of the rules.
The boy wants to change them already.


Seriouly folks heres an idea, it may be old hat. I would appreciate
feed back please.

The basis is that Adpets are not as strong magicians as you "common"
mage. Since this is true. This bit about magic 6 is a game mechanics
system. Adepts have less magic than Mages but magic seems to be lost
in factions of the base. The idea is that if Magical Adepts are less
than mages then so are Physical ones. In fact the powers of a physical
adept are open to all mages and shamen. The points that they sepnd upon
physical adept powers are removed from there magical stats for spell
casting and summoning purposes. If there is enough interest in this
idea I will gladly write this up properly. However those who have
played this game more extenively than me may see some obvious loop
holes.

Chris

========================================================================
||"Some day no mater how hard you try nothing goes wrong" ||
|| Nathan Spring::Star Cops(An instinct for Murder ||
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Message no. 2
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Mages
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 08:56:08 -0500
Mages are already powerful enough without letting them stack physical
adept powers on top of it.

- cks
Message no. 3
From: Michael Baker <mike@******.EGLIN.AF.MIL>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Mages
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 09:04:16 CST
Chris you must not be a GM, I personally have enough trouble challenging my
mages as is without them being close combat fighting machines, the way that
adepts have less power is in their limited focus not in their power levels. Phys
adepts focus their magic inward to improve themselves, elemental mages learn
their element, etc. No full mages and shamans don't need anything extra, if
anything the 2nd ed. didn`t scale their power down enough, at least for my group







Michael Baker Internet: mike@******.eglin.af.mil
################################################################################
# "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not ceartain; #
# as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." #
# --Albert Einstein #
################################################################################
Message no. 4
From: bellovar@***.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: Adepts and Mages
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 13:09:16 CST
> From: Chris Davies <rdac005@****.AC.UK>
> Subject: Adepts and Mages


> Hi again, not content with admitting that he's not sure of the rules.
> The boy wants to change them already.


> Seriouly folks heres an idea, it may be old hat. I would appreciate
> feed back please.

> The basis is that Adpets are not as strong magicians as you "common"
> mage. Since this is true. This bit about magic 6 is a game mechanics
> system. Adepts have less magic than Mages but magic seems to be lost
> in factions of the base. The idea is that if Magical Adepts are less
> than mages then so are Physical ones. In fact the powers of a physical
> adept are open to all mages and shamen. The points that they sepnd upon
> physical adept powers are removed from there magical stats for spell
> casting and summoning purposes. If there is enough interest in this
> idea I will gladly write this up properly. However those who have
> played this game more extensively than me may see some obvious loop
> holes.
>
> Chris
>

Well, personally, I see this as a playable solution, and I like the idea.

A problem comes in the entire philosophy of what a physical adept is.
The focus their abilities in an entirely different manner than "normal"
mages. However, certain people may be capable of achieving both the
weilding of magic as an entity and as part of oneself.

Part of the reason I say this is that I believe integration of the two
should NOT be a common thing - although possible. Perhaps some karma
needs to be spent, or take it from initial force points if such an option
is chosen.

However there is still some potential rules difficulties. In Astral
space physical adepts get their initiative bonus and killing hands
abilities while astrally percieving. Do they also get it while
astrally projecting? I could see a mage using 3 magic points to get
killing hands (Str S) and one extra initiative die. Talk about
terror in the astral plane! =)

In our game we are just experimenting with a character (mine) which was
allowed to become a wolf shaman physical adept (a wolf combat adept) by
assigning top priority as magic. Actually, to limit his power, he also
had to start as a metahuman as well, not leaving much for money, skills,
or abilities.

What I see as a death situation is a man with ninjitsu 8, killing hands
(Str S), modified shock gloves (7M stun due to no punching stun involved)
and casting the spell death touch before jumping into the fray. Ok,
given he has next to no other skills (stealth and sorcery) and merely
a Strength of 3, I have to speak to our DM about this before he actually
gets into a combat so I can turn him into something standard to protect
some game balance here, unless she would rather I keep it.

Any Comments? - I am really curious - expecially since it falls so much
in line with what's up.

BTW Chris - I like your idea a lot - but I do worry of melee killing
machines that still have other spells.

Celt
Message no. 5
From: "P. Steele" <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Mages
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 19:23:26 GMT
This idea has been brought up once before and I think the only workable system
I saw was to double the magic cost of all Phys Ad powers then as a Mage/Shaman
gained a power they actually lose a magic point where the Phys Ad doesn't.

Personally I think this is still too much power for Shamans and Mages and that
they shouldn't be allowed any Phys Ad powers at all. Though your argument for
Phys Ads and other Adpets having less magic does hold true. Phys Ads are just
something special. Something that no one else can do, just the same as no-one
excepet mages can summon an elemental etc .. etc ..

-The Powerhouse
--
Phillip Steele

P.C.Steele@**.ac.ncl
Message no. 6
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Mages
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 17:08:55 -0500
I have no problem with mages who are also physical adepts ... as long
as they pony up the priorities needed, ie 4 *and* 3 (3 and 2 for a
metahuman). 'But that's crushingly weak!' you say, and my answer is
'Well, yes, so?'

- cks
Message no. 7
From: bellovar@***.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: Adepts and Mages
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 12:08:27 CST
> > A problem comes in the entire philosophy of what a physical adept is.
> > The focus their abilities in an entirely different manner than
"normal"
> > mages. However, certain people may be capable of achieving both the
> > weilding of magic as an entity and as part of oneself.

> > Part of the reason I say this is that I believe integration of the two
> > should NOT be a common thing - although possible. Perhaps some karma
> > needs to be spent, or take it from initial force points if such an option
> > is chosen.

> > However there is still some potential rules difficulties. In Astral
> > space physical adepts get their initiative bonus and killing hands
> > abilities while astrally percieving. Do they also get it while
> > astrally projecting? I could see a mage using 3 magic points to get
> > killing hands (Str S) and one extra initiative die. Talk about
> > terror in the astral plane! =)

> Can you give me the page references for this 'cause try as I might I do
> not seem able to find this.

Page 147 of SRII under resolving astral combat.

> > In our game we are just experimenting with a character (mine) which was
> > allowed to become a wolf shaman physical adept (a wolf combat adept) by
> > assigning top priority as magic. Actually, to limit his power, he also
> > had to start as a metahuman as well, not leaving much for money, skills,
> > or abilities.

> > What I see as a death situation is a man with ninjitsu 8, killing hands
> > (Str S), modified shock gloves (7M stun due to no punching stun involved)
> > and casting the spell death touch before jumping into the fray. Ok,
> > given he has next to no other skills (stealth and sorcery) and merely
> > a Strength of 3, I have to speak to our GM about this before he actually
> > gets into a combat so I can turn him into something standard to protect
> > some game balance here, unless she would rather I keep it.

> I would not allow killing hand and shock gloves but opinions differ.

> > Any Comments? - I am really curious - expecially since it falls so much
> > in line with what's up.

> I love to see the character. Most of the comments as you saw were "This
> will make Mages killing machines", however I have decided to write it
> up anyway. Since I'm going to use it in my campaign.

> > BTW Chris - I like your idea a lot - but I do worry of melee killing
> > machines that still have other spells.

> > Celt
*****************************************************************************

I am sending this again merely because when it was forwarded back to me,
I saw that I had not been clear on one something. It should have come
across as a Wolf Shamanic Adept/Physical Adept with top priority in magic.
I am imagine it came across otherwise, so I was speaking of a double adept
(in effect) by putting top priority in magic.

I actually only caught the last comment about this when I sent it in, because
my mailbox overflowed that weekend, and it only keeps the latest stuff in that
case. (There was a command to get to the overflow - but I have lost it -
whoops.)

In all honesty, even though I still have the GM's permission to play the
character I described, I think I change it before next game (so far it has
been only roleplaying - no action) just to be on the safe side. I just
wanted to send this letter to straighten out a possible misunderstanding.

-- Celt

*******************************************************************************
Message no. 8
From: 90824840@***.UWPLATT.EDU
Subject: RE:Adepts and Mages
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 10:45:00 CST
Hoi-
In response to the idea of a wolf shamanic adept/physical adept by
placing the magic priority at 'A' (SRI:priority 4).
Before you play him in his overpowered state, try this restriction:
Have the points spent on phys-ad abilities reduce his magic attribute for
the purpose of casting shamanic (hermetics too) spells. This prevents
the character from becoming WAY too powerful, yet still allows for greater
versatility. (REMEMBER: with reductions in your magic attribute, your
spell caster may have to pick up a geas.)

-Storm

Oh, yeah.... It's nice to be back.


>>>[...Is this one of those really tough bars?]<<<

>>>[ *nod* ]<<<

>>>[I'd like a tall glass of gin served with a human hair in it!]<<<

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