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Message no. 1
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] Earthdawn..
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:51:38 -0700
With the recent thread regarding Earthdawn <--> SR links and their
appropriateness on this mailing list, I suppose I should say something
'official'.

Earthdawn and Shadowrun link material is appropriate for this list, in my
opinion. I don't play with any of the links in my game, but since it seems
at least somewhat 'official', and that a fair number do play with these
links intact, I think it's fair game for the list.

However, please prefix them with [SR/ED], for the purpose of manual
filtering.. (That means [SR/ED], not any variations, please.)

Any comments questions or concerns, you know my email address :)

Thanks,
Adam

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ AdamJ@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
The Shadowrun Archive Co-Maintainer: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun
Message no. 2
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Earthdawn..
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:14:17 -0500
On 16 Jan 98 at 16:51, Adam J wrote:

> Earthdawn and Shadowrun link material is appropriate for this list,
> in my opinion. I don't play with any of the links in my game, but
> since it seems at least somewhat 'official', and that a fair number
> do play with these links intact, I think it's fair game for the
> list.

I was curious what Mike Muvihill had to say on the subject, so here
is his answer to the email I sent him (I've cut and pasted the data.
If anybody wants the original message, I can forward it too you
complete with headers for validity).

-----

Drekhead wrote:
>It has come up on the list that Shadowrun and Earthdawn share a
>common history. Is this true? And if so, will this connection between
>the two ever be exploited more fully?

FASAMike's response:
They do but we prefer to keep the games separate at this time. We prefer
people to play the games on their own merits. Forcing tons of fantasy
(more so than what is already there) by adding too much from
Earthdawn into Shadowrun means losing something that makes Shadowrun
cool - the science fiction aspects and futuristic elements.

-----
That's all I got to say about that. :) It's nice to be validated.


> However, please prefix them with [SR/ED], for the purpose of manual
> filtering.. (That means [SR/ED], not any variations, please.)

That's acceptable. Thanks Adam.

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Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Earthdawn..
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:49:20 -0500
Drekhead once dared to write,

>It has come up on the list that Shadowrun and Earthdawn share a
>common history. Is this true? And if so, will this connection between
>the two ever be exploited more fully?
>
>FASAMike's response:
>>They do but we prefer to keep the games separate at this time. We prefer
>>people to play the games on their own merits. Forcing tons of fantasy
>>(more so than what is already there) by adding too much from
>>Earthdawn into Shadowrun means losing something that makes Shadowrun
>>cool - the science fiction aspects and futuristic elements.
>
>-----
>That's all I got to say about that. :) It's nice to be validated.

VALIDATED? You kept running your mouth off about how the two are =
completely unrelated. Mike saying that they were not making the game =
any more closer related but that it they were related does not =
validate you in any way for your previous statements. No, the scourge =
from Earthdawn will not hit Shadowrun but the threat a few horrors =
sneaking by will not disappear either. It's a shared history that =
plays off one another but does not dictate the direction Shadowrun =
will go. The connection will not be exploited but neither will it be =
left alone. Small teasers will always creep up for those who enjoy =
them and easily ignored by those who do not care. In the end I would =
say you were not validated.

>
>> However, please prefix them with [SR/ED], for the purpose of manual
>> filtering.. (That means [SR/ED], not any variations, please.)
>
>That's acceptable. Thanks Adam.

I'm glad we can agree that a prefix header is advisable.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><=
><>

"When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful =
tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor =
less."
-Through the Looking Glass

I am MC23
Message no. 4
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Earthdawn..
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:38:28 PST
>I was curious what Mike Muvihill had to say on the subject, so here
>is his answer to the email I sent him (I've cut and pasted the data.
>If anybody wants the original message, I can forward it too you
>complete with headers for validity).
>
>-----
[snip what Mike said]

I assure that this is only Mike's opinion. Caroline Spector has
crossed the lines(the first author to do so, I think) quite blatedly in
"Worlds Without End" and their prequels "Scars" and "Little
Treasures"-
both prequels slated to be released as EarthDawn novels. From what I've
gathered over the years, their are plenty of the writers that enjoy the
crossing over-usually very subtley- in their books and formats. But
I've also heard quite clearly that Mike isn't as... agreeing... as the
other writers, and since he's the SR line developer....


-Vagabond (nomad74@*******.com)
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


______________________________________________________
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Message no. 5
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Earthdawn..
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:10:29 EST
In a message dated 98-01-17 14:39:11 EST, nomad74@*******.COM writes:

> I assure that this is only Mike's opinion. Caroline Spector has
> crossed the lines(the first author to do so, I think) quite blatedly in
> "Worlds Without End" and their prequels "Scars" and "Little
Treasures"-
> both prequels slated to be released as EarthDawn novels. From what I've
> gathered over the years, their are plenty of the writers that enjoy the
> crossing over-usually very subtley- in their books and formats. But
> I've also heard quite clearly that Mike isn't as... agreeing... as the
> other writers, and since he's the SR line developer....
>
Yes guy, I've heard the same thing. But I've also become privy to knowledge
concerning the conflicts that are going on behind the scenes within the "game
politics" at FASA itself. You want fun? Check out the discussions people
have in the IRC's chats, especially the ones where "game politics" comes up.
It takes time and patience, but it happens.

It's the oldest conflict in gaming, and social interaction in general ...

I'm the biggest, I'm the Baddest, You'll do what I say, and that's that....

I think we all know that phrase.

As far as ED and SR crossovers, I think they are a marvelous way of
introducing new material that is remarkably old. Remember, what is an
artifact to one culture is a piece of trash to another. Take the Mona Lisa
for example ...

-K
Message no. 6
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Earthdawn..
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:16:34 EST
In a message dated 98-01-17 13:52:22 EST, mc23@**********.COM writes:

> >It has come up on the list that Shadowrun and Earthdawn share a
> >common history. Is this true? And if so, will this connection between
> >the two ever be exploited more fully?
> >
> >FASAMike's response:
> >>They do but we prefer to keep the games separate at this time. We prefer
> >>people to play the games on their own merits. Forcing tons of fantasy
> >>(more so than what is already there) by adding too much from
> >>Earthdawn into Shadowrun means losing something that makes Shadowrun
> >>cool - the science fiction aspects and futuristic elements.

Oh Mike, you short sighted, impracticle individual. It doesn't mean losing
those aspects at all. If anything, it just means that competition is going to
get more fierce and the technological need is going to be confronted with a
surge of desire. Tech is amazing. You can do fantastic things with it. You
just have to have the faith that you can do it.

Guys, what Mike is failing to admit to is the input he's getting from other
sources. He might be the "final editor" type, but FASA's not a 100%
dictatorship. If the public outcry and author submissions make it obvious
that "flow over" is desired, then it's going to happen. Will he resist?
Likely. Will he succeed? Negotiating is everything. Charisma to back it up?
He's a nice guy, but NOT that nice...

> >That's all I got to say about that. :) It's nice to be validated.

Sigh, somehow I think Validated is the wrong word...

> VALIDATED? You kept running your mouth off about how the two are
> completely unrelated. Mike saying that they were not making the game any
more
> closer related but that it they were related does not validate you in any
way
> for your previous statements. No, the scourge from Earthdawn will not hit
> Shadowrun but the threat a few horrors sneaking by will not disappear
either.
> It's a shared history that plays off one another but does not dictate the
> direction Shadowrun will go. The connection will not be exploited but
neither
> will it be left alone. Small teasers will always creep up for those who
enjoy
> them and easily ignored by those who do not care. In the end I would say you
> were not validated.

I have to agree with MC23 here...definitely NOT validated in any fashion. The
Fate of the Horrors? Who can ultimately say, but I know this shooting star
that's coming....

> >> However, please prefix them with [SR/ED], for the purpose of manual
> >> filtering.. (That means [SR/ED], not any variations, please.)
> >That's acceptable. Thanks Adam.
> I'm glad we can agree that a prefix header is advisable.

Oh my god, another FAQ. Quick, jot it down folks...

-K
Message no. 7
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Earthdawn..
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:02:15 -0500
On 17 Jan 98 at 13:49, MC23 wrote:

> VALIDATED? You kept running your mouth off about how the two
> are completely unrelated. Mike saying that they were not making
> the game any more closer related but that it they were related
> does not validate you in any way for your previous statements.


Someone had said that it seemed that the game was moving toward more
SR/ED crossovers, especially in light of the Dragon Heart triology. I
had said I disagree, that I see the DH triology as a way to move away
from the crossovers. I said I felt that FASA was leaning in THAT
direction. Mike's statement validates that. Nothing more. Don't read
anything more into what I said.

> No, the scourge from Earthdawn will not hit Shadowrun but the
> threat a few horrors sneaking by will not disappear either.
> It's a shared history that plays off one another but does not
> dictate the direction Shadowrun will go. The connection will
> not be exploited but neither will it be left alone. Small
> teasers will always creep up for those who enjoy them and
> easily ignored by those who do not care. In the end I would say
> you were not validated.

Mike's statement seems to indicate that he feels the shared history
does affect the direction that he wants to take Shadowrun. I agree
that it probably won't be left alone, but I would bet references to
it will be few and far between. We shall see. It sounds like Mike
wants to put the cyberpunk back into Shadowrun and I for one am glad
to see it. The bottom line is I will love the game no matter what. I
can continue to ignore the Earthdawn connection if need be. If you
don't want to, fine. That's your right, just as it's my right to
ignore it. There is no wrong way to play Shadowrun, as long as every
one is having fun.


--



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Message no. 8
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Earthdawn..
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:10:39 -0500
Drekhead once dared to write,

>Someone had said that it seemed that the game was moving toward more
>SR/ED crossovers, especially in light of the Dragon Heart triology. I
>had said I disagree, that I see the DH triology as a way to move away
>from the crossovers. I said I felt that FASA was leaning in THAT
>direction. Mike's statement validates that. Nothing more. Don't read
>anything more into what I said.

Most of your original rant was for a complete separation of
Earthdawn and Shadowrun especially for where this list is concerned. This
was to such an extent that my belligerent self felt obliged to speak up.
I'm happy for your current peace with the whole crossover issue but
nowhere did I see anything to validate your previous rabid stance. This
is what bothered me. Maybe you should remember where your diatribe lead
you.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
-Through the Looking Glass

I am MC23
Message no. 9
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Earthdawn..
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:38:24 -0500
On 18 Jan 98 at 4:10, MC23 wrote:

> Most of your original rant was for a complete separation of
> Earthdawn and Shadowrun especially for where this list is concerned.
> This was to such an extent that my belligerent self felt obliged to
> speak up. I'm happy for your current peace with the whole crossover
> issue but nowhere did I see anything to validate your previous rabid
> stance. This is what bothered me. Maybe you should remember where
> your diatribe lead you.

Remember? Hell, I can't remember what a had for lunch yesterday. :)
What I will do, though, is go through my old messages to see what
sparked you to action. The only thing I remember being "rabid" about
was what I considered the inappropriateness of ED topics on this
list.

Let's drop this. It doesn't matter anyway, and I'm sure the list is
tired of it.

--

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