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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mark A. Imbriaco)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Thu Jan 11 12:42:09 2001
I've upgraded our mailing list server software to a newer version.
Please let me know if you see anything out of the ordinary on the lists.

-Mark

--
"The big question is whether the planet will disappear in the twinkling of
an eye. It is astonishingly unlikely that there is any risk - but I could
not prove it." - John Nelson
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mike D Fontaine)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Thu Jan 11 16:12:01 2001
Just a quick question: With this new software is it possable to change
the subject lines to include something like [SRN]. Some mailers don't
have filters and it's hard to tell list mail from personal mail.

The Lucky Lurker,

Czar Eggbert


>
> I've upgraded our mailing list server software to a newer version.
> Please let me know if you see anything out of the ordinary on the
> lists.
>
> -Mark
>
> --
> "The big question is whether the planet will disappear in the
> twinkling of
> an eye. It is astonishingly unlikely that there is any risk - but I
> could
> not prove it." - John Nelson
>
>

OOC:
Mike Fontaine
Cam Number: 2000-09-164
Cresent Moon

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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mark Imbriaco)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 11:12:03 2001
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Mike D Fontaine wrote:

>
>
> Just a quick question: With this new software is it possable to change
> the subject lines to include something like [SRN]. Some mailers don't
> have filters and it's hard to tell list mail from personal mail.

It's always been possible, but I personally don't care for that
feature. What't the consensus among other list members? (I ask because
I'm inclined toward the obvious: Well, get a new mailer!) ;-)

-Mark
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Tim Mathena)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 11:42:03 2001
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C07D7F.82474000
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> > Just a quick question: With this new software is it
> possable to change
> > the subject lines to include something like [SRN]. Some
> mailers don't
> > have filters and it's hard to tell list mail from personal mail.
>
> It's always been possible, but I personally don't care for that
> feature. What't the consensus among other list members? (I
> ask because
> I'm inclined toward the obvious: Well, get a new mailer!) ;-)
>
> -Mark
>

I am for the [SRN]

-Rookie

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<TITLE>RE: [ADMIN] List server update.</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; Just a quick question: With this new
software is it </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; possable to change</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; the subject lines to include something like
[SRN].&nbsp; Some </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; mailers don't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; have filters and it's hard to tell list
mail from personal mail. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; It's always been possible, but I personally don't
care for that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; feature.&nbsp; What't the consensus among other
list members?&nbsp;&nbsp; (I </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; ask because</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; I'm inclined toward the obvious:&nbsp; Well, get
a new mailer!)&nbsp; ;-)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; -Mark</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I am for the [SRN]</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-Rookie</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Philip Allchin)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 13:42:01 2001
I would love to have the [SRN] on the mail.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Imbriaco <mark.imbriaco@*****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] List server update.


> On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Mike D Fontaine wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Just a quick question: With this new software is it possable to change
> > the subject lines to include something like [SRN]. Some mailers don't
> > have filters and it's hard to tell list mail from personal mail.
>
> It's always been possible, but I personally don't care for that
> feature. What't the consensus among other list members? (I ask because
> I'm inclined toward the obvious: Well, get a new mailer!) ;-)
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam J)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 14:12:00 2001
At 11:16 12/01/2001 -0500, Mark Imbriaco wrote:

>> Just a quick question: With this new software is it possable to change
>> the subject lines to include something like [SRN]. Some mailers don't
>> have filters and it's hard to tell list mail from personal mail.
>
>It's always been possible, but I personally don't care for that
>feature. What't the consensus among other list members? (I ask because
>I'm inclined toward the obvious: Well, get a new mailer!) ;-)

The consenus last time this was discussed was 'no' (Back in early 99,
IIRC). I personally dislike it and with so many people using mailers that
don't suck.. I'm on the 'no' side.

Adam
--
< http://tss.dumpshock.com : http://www.jillted.org >
< adamj@*********.com | ICQ# 2350330 | TSS Productions >
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nexx)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 15:12:00 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Allchin"


> I would love to have the [SRN] on the mail.

I'll vote for "I don't care". I already filter by e-mail address, so the
tag won't affect me one way or the other.
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dvixen)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 15:12:13 2001
> >> Just a quick question: With this new software is it
> possable to change
> >> the subject lines to include something like [SRN]. Some
> mailers don't
> >> have filters and it's hard to tell list mail from personal mail.
> >
> >It's always been possible, but I personally don't care for that
> >feature. What't the consensus among other list members?
> (I ask because
> >I'm inclined toward the obvious: Well, get a new mailer!) ;-)
>
> The consenus last time this was discussed was 'no' (Back in early 99,
> IIRC). I personally dislike it and with so many people using
> mailers that
> don't suck.. I'm on the 'no' side.

Ditto here. I've watched this topic get brought up every year or more,
and always the same answer...
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Brother Justice)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 15:42:09 2001
>From: "Nexx" <nexx@********.net>
>>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Philip Allchin"
>
>
> > I would love to have the [SRN] on the mail.
>
>I'll vote for "I don't care". I already filter by e-mail address, so the
>tag won't affect me one way or the other.

I'm with Nexx. I really don't care one way or the other. I don't filter the
mail, though I can, so it makes no nevermind to me either way.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Michael Baer)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 15:42:12 2001
From: Mark Imbriaco <mark.imbriaco@*****.com>

> On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Mike D Fontaine wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Just a quick question: With this new software is it possable to change
> > the subject lines to include something like [SRN]. Some mailers don't
> > have filters and it's hard to tell list mail from personal mail.
>
> It's always been possible, but I personally don't care for that
> feature. What't the consensus among other list members? (I ask because
> I'm inclined toward the obvious: Well, get a new mailer!) ;-)
>
> -Mark

Either way. I can tell the difference between regular mail, and list mail.
I'm also debating on dropping OE and going with the unused copy of Eudora
sitting here, soooo...

~NexusVoid
(AKA Mike Baer the Magical Mystical Ninja)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Got Bling?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Cullyn)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 19:12:01 2001
On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:13:21 -0800, "Dvixen" <dvixen@*********.com>
wrote:
>> >> Just a quick question: With this new software is it
>> possable to change
>> >> the subject lines to include something like [SRN]. Some
>> mailers don't
>> >> have filters and it's hard to tell list mail from personal mail.
>>
>> >It's always been possible, but I personally don't care for that
>> >feature. What't the consensus among other list members?
>> (I ask because
>> >I'm inclined toward the obvious: Well, get a new mailer!) ;-)
>>
>> The consenus last time this was discussed was 'no' (Back in early 99,
>> IIRC). I personally dislike it and with so many people using
>> mailers that
>> don't suck.. I'm on the 'no' side.
>
>Ditto here. I've watched this topic get brought up every year or more,
>and always the same answer...
>

And again. There are so many free mailers out there that can do it,
I'd prefer to see it stay as is.
-Cully
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 19:12:05 2001
Adam J wrote:
>
> At 11:16 12/01/2001 -0500, Mark Imbriaco wrote:
>
> >> Just a quick question: With this new software is it possable to change
> >> the subject lines to include something like [SRN]. Some mailers don't
> >> have filters and it's hard to tell list mail from personal mail.
> >
> >It's always been possible, but I personally don't care for that
> >feature. What't the consensus among other list members? (I ask because
> >I'm inclined toward the obvious: Well, get a new mailer!) ;-)
>
> The consenus last time this was discussed was 'no' (Back in early 99,
> IIRC). I personally dislike it and with so many people using mailers that
> don't suck.. I'm on the 'no' side.

I too would have to walk over to the 'no' side.

--
Iridios
--
God Is

Visit "The ShadowZone"
http://members.nbci.com/Iridios/ShadowZone

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.97d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
7:23:32 PM/206:00:02 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 20:42:01 2001
On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:56:22 -0600 "Nexx" <nexx@********.net> writes:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philip Allchin"
>
>
> > I would love to have the [SRN] on the mail.
>
> I'll vote for "I don't care". I already filter by e-mail address,
> so the
> tag won't affect me one way or the other.
>
>

Add my vote for "I don't care" since I have list mail sent to a different
email account from other stuff.

Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

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Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mark Imbriaco)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 21:42:01 2001
On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Iridios wrote:

> > The consenus last time this was discussed was 'no' (Back in early 99,
> > IIRC). I personally dislike it and with so many people using mailers that
> > don't suck.. I'm on the 'no' side.
>
> I too would have to walk over to the 'no' side.

And it appears that is still the consensus. Sorry for those of you who
want the tag in there, but to be honest it's not really all that hard to
get a quality mail program that will filter your mail for you.

-Mark
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 22:42:01 2001
At 09:31 PM 1/12/01 -0500, you wrote:
>
>On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Iridios wrote:
>
>> > The consenus last time this was discussed was 'no' (Back in early 99,
>> > IIRC). I personally dislike it and with so many people using mailers that
>> > don't suck.. I'm on the 'no' side.
>>
>> I too would have to walk over to the 'no' side.
>
>And it appears that is still the consensus. Sorry for those of you who
>want the tag in there, but to be honest it's not really all that hard to
>get a quality mail program that will filter your mail for you.
>
>-Mark


Not that I care, since Eudora easily can filter on many different things,
but those who say a definite NO, why? What would it hurt you if the email
came in as [SRN] ?

Dave
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mike D Fontaine)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 23:12:01 2001
> And it appears that is still the consensus. Sorry for those of you
> who
> want the tag in there, but to be honest it's not really all that
> hard to
> get a quality mail program that will filter your mail for you.
>
> -Mark
>
>

My problem is that I only have free e-mail accounts(Yahoo, Juno). My
Yahoo account has a filter, but it fill up too quickly for me to use it
as a SRN account. My juno account, on the other hand, allows me to DL
mail,but only in it's crappy mailer with no filters. The worst of both
worlds.

Czar Eggbert



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Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Augustus)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Fri Jan 12 23:42:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike D Fontaine <dartheggbert@****.com>
> My problem is that I only have free e-mail accounts(Yahoo, Juno). My
> Yahoo account has a filter, but it fill up too quickly for me to use it
> as a SRN account. My juno account, on the other hand, allows me to DL
> mail,but only in it's crappy mailer with no filters. The worst of both
> worlds.

I only use free email accounts as well... yahoo and softhome.

of note... both Yahoo and Softhome have POP access... so you can get
messages (and filter them) with a reader like Eudora or Outlook Express...
and they both allow multiple userids.

Augustus
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Sat Jan 13 06:12:11 2001
According to Adam J, on Fri, 12 Jan 2001 the word on the street was...

> >It's always been possible, but I personally don't care for that
> >feature. What't the consensus among other list members? (I ask because
> >I'm inclined toward the obvious: Well, get a new mailer!) ;-)
>
> The consenus last time this was discussed was 'no' (Back in early 99,
> IIRC). I personally dislike it and with so many people using mailers that
> don't suck.. I'm on the 'no' side.

I agree with Adam, almost any mailer than can filter, can do so on e-mail
addresses as well as on the subject line. If you use anything like pine,
Eudora, Pegasus, Outlook Express, or whatever, you'll have filters. Now, if
you're sorting your mail manually by looking at subject line tags, all you
need to do is learn to use them :)

(That said, I was recently informed that Juno can't, and that you don't
have the option of using another mailer if you use that service, but
wouldn't getting a real ISP account do the trick?)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (DV8)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Sat Jan 13 06:42:00 2001
People,

What is the difficulty of actually putting a [SRN] tag in front of the
topics? If that makes the people that use free email services that can't
filter correctly happy, then why make a fuss about it?

- Mark has said that it is possible
- Several people would like to see this
- Several people say that they don't care wether it is there or not [of
which, I am one]
- Only few people have objected against it [but haven't, as far as I've been
able to ascertain, given any clear reason why it shouldn't happen].

Regards,

DV8

"Abashed the Devil stood, and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Sat Jan 13 12:12:01 2001
At 12:31 PM 1/13/01 +0100, DV8 wrote:

>What is the difficulty of actually putting a [SRN] tag
>in front of the topics? If that makes the people that
>use free email services that can't filter correctly
>happy, then why make a fuss about it?

One problem that I forsee happenning would be that the
subject line would rapidly become useless after a few
back-and-forth exchanges.

For example, the first message would have:

Subject: [SRN] [Admin] List server update.

with the [SRN] tag supplied by the list server. Then
the first reply would look like:

Subject: [SRN] Re: [SRN] [Admin] List server update.

then after a few more exchanges:

Subject: [SRN] Re: [SRN] Re: [SRN] Re: [SRN] Re: [SR

so after a while, sorting/filtering by thread becomes
impossible.

If the list server can be configured to only add a tag
if there isn't one already in the subject, or we can
rely on everyone consistently cleaning out the subject
line in their replies, then I wouldn't mind having
the [SRN] tag.

As for people who are stuck using free mail services.
As long as you have your own computer, it is possible
to set up your Yahoo! mail account to allow you to use
a different POP mail client to read your mail, at the
expense of receiving a periodic junk mailing from
Yahoo! mail.

MCP


-----------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email at http://yahoo.iname.com
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Cymon Tymplar)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Sat Jan 13 13:42:03 2001
>>What is the difficulty of actually putting a [SRN] tag
>>in front of the topics? If that makes the people that
>>use free email services that can't filter correctly
>>happy, then why make a fuss about it?

>One problem that I forsee happenning would be that the
>subject line would rapidly become useless after a few
>back-and-forth exchanges.
<snip>
>If the list server can be configured to only add a tag
>if there isn't one already in the subject <snip>
>then I wouldn't mind having the [SRN] tag.

several lists I am on already do just that. so again, what's the
problem?

-Cymon
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nimster)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Sat Jan 13 13:42:08 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <mcp@********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] List server update.



> impossible.
>
> If the list server can be configured to only add a tag
> if there isn't one already in the subject, or we can
> rely on everyone consistently cleaning out the subject
> line in their replies, then I wouldn't mind having
> the [SRN] tag.

That's a perl regex *I* can develop in 5 minutes. I'm more than certain
AdamJ or whoever is the master-programmer of DS can come up with that
easily.

Personally, I'm one of the blank-note voters (i.e. I don't care if there
will be a tag or not).
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Max 'Wild_Cat' Noel)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update
Date: Sat Jan 13 15:42:02 2001
>My problem is that I only have free e-mail accounts(Yahoo, Juno). My
>Yahoo account has a filter, but it fill up too quickly for me to use it
>as a SRN account. My juno account, on the other hand, allows me to DL
>mail,but only in it's crappy mailer with no filters. The worst of both
>worlds.

Yahoo has a pop3 server you can use to get your mail on any standard
mailer. I use it with Eudora and it works perfectly. To get a Yahoo pop3
access, you just have to set a few parameters on the Yahoo mail web site.


Wild_Cat

---------------------
If you don't know how it could possibly get worse, you can be sure of one
thing : the GM does.
---------------------


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (J. Keith Henry)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update
Date: Sat Jan 13 20:42:01 2001
From: "Max 'Wild_Cat' Noel" <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr>
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] List server update


> >My problem is that I only have free e-mail accounts(Yahoo, Juno). My
> >Yahoo account has a filter, but it fill up too quickly for me to use it
> >as a SRN account. My juno account, on the other hand, allows me to DL
> >mail,but only in it's crappy mailer with no filters. The worst of both
> >worlds.
>
> Yahoo has a pop3 server you can use to get your mail on any standard
> mailer. I use it with Eudora and it works perfectly. To get a Yahoo pop3
> access, you just have to set a few parameters on the Yahoo mail web site.

Hmmm... have to keep this in mind...

And yes, the DNS changes for HHH are done now... I'm back (though I think
Mike is resting for a bit before reactivating).
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (http://hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: [ADMIN] List server update.
Date: Sun Jan 14 07:42:00 2001
According to mcp@********.com, on Sat, 13 Jan 2001 the word on the street
was...

> then after a few more exchanges:
>
> Subject: [SRN] Re: [SRN] Re: [SRN] Re: [SRN] Re: [SR
>
> so after a while, sorting/filtering by thread becomes
> impossible.

That's not what would happen, because list servers don't add the tag if
it's already there -- your mailer doesn't add a "Re:" tag if there's
already one at the front of the subject line, either, and this is
basically the same thing. However, where things would go "wrong" (that's a
rather big word here, though) is that we _would_ end up with subject lines
like "Re: [SRN] Re: [Admin] List server update."

> If the list server can be configured to only add a tag
> if there isn't one already in the subject, or we can
> rely on everyone consistently cleaning out the subject
> line in their replies

Yes on the former (at least, I suspect so based on experience with other
lists), but a definite no on the latter :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

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