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Message no. 1
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:52:14 -0700
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/biotechgoats000618.html

The Associated Press
P L A T T S B U R G H, N. Y., June 18 - About 150 goats that have been bred
with a spider gene are to be housed on 60 acres of a former Air Force base
here.
Montreal-based Nexia Biotechnologies, Inc., plans for the goats to
arrive Tuesday. The company said up to 1,500 genetically-altered goats may
eventually live there. Fifteen weapons-storage buildings were converted - by
adding light and feeding water lines - into animal holding pens for the
project.
"We feel the site ... is a real adequate site and is in a very secure
setting," Isabelle Trombley-Summers, Nexia site director of agricultural
affairs, told the Plattsburgh Press-Republican.
The goats have been bred with a spider gene so their milk provides a
unique protein. The company then plans to extract the protein from the milk
to produce fibers - called BioSteel - for bulletproof vests, aerospace and
medical supplies.
Spider silk has a unique combination of strength and elasticity with an
ultra-lightweight fiber.
Spinning a Profitable Web
Last year, Nexia obtained the exclusive right to patents resulting from
spider silk research at the University of Wyoming. The agreement included an
up front payment for the university, funding for research and development
expenses plus royalties on the sale of silk-based products.
In January, Nexia announced the birth of two "BioSteel goats."
Initially, Trombley-Summers said, Nexia will have a conventional
breeding facility at the Plattsburgh Airbase Redevelopment Corp. site, with
bunkers housing both male and female goats. About five people will be
employed there.
The goats will usually remain in pens and the building will be fenced
into separate areas that allow them to exercise and go outside for light,
Trombley-Summers said.
Trombley-Summers assured Plattsburgh's Town Planning Board that they
will maintain high environmental standards at the facility and have spoken w
ith the State Department of Environmental Conservation about the operation.
"There's no problem with that," Codes Enforcement Officer Donald Lee
said of environmental and health standards.
He said there's enough room to spread goat manure, and the goats won't
be near the Saranac River or any streams.
State DEC officials did not return calls placed over the weekend.

Ken
---------------------------
There's a war out there, old friend, a world war. And it's not about who's
got the most bullets, it's about who controls the information. What we see
and hear, how we work, what we think, it's all about the information!
Cosmo, 'Sneakers'
Message no. 2
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:27:21 +1000
There's a joke here, I know it. Damn, I can't think of one.


-----Original Message-----
From: Tzeentch <tzeentch666@*********.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 8:57 AM
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!


>http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/biotechgoats000618.htm
l
>
>The Associated Press
>P L A T T S B U R G H, N. Y., June 18 - About 150 goats that have been bred
>with a spider gene are to be housed on 60 acres of a former Air Force base
>here.
> Montreal-based Nexia Biotechnologies, Inc., plans for the goats to
>arrive Tuesday. The company said up to 1,500 genetically-altered goats may
>eventually live there. Fifteen weapons-storage buildings were converted -
by
>adding light and feeding water lines - into animal holding pens for the
>project.
> "We feel the site ... is a real adequate site and is in a very secure
>setting," Isabelle Trombley-Summers, Nexia site director of agricultural
>affairs, told the Plattsburgh Press-Republican.
> The goats have been bred with a spider gene so their milk provides a
>unique protein. The company then plans to extract the protein from the milk
>to produce fibers - called BioSteel - for bulletproof vests, aerospace and
>medical supplies.
> Spider silk has a unique combination of strength and elasticity with
an
>ultra-lightweight fiber.
>Spinning a Profitable Web
>Last year, Nexia obtained the exclusive right to patents resulting from
>spider silk research at the University of Wyoming. The agreement included
an
>up front payment for the university, funding for research and development
>expenses plus royalties on the sale of silk-based products.
> In January, Nexia announced the birth of two "BioSteel goats."
> Initially, Trombley-Summers said, Nexia will have a conventional
>breeding facility at the Plattsburgh Airbase Redevelopment Corp. site, with
>bunkers housing both male and female goats. About five people will be
>employed there.
> The goats will usually remain in pens and the building will be fenced
>into separate areas that allow them to exercise and go outside for light,
>Trombley-Summers said.
> Trombley-Summers assured Plattsburgh's Town Planning Board that they
>will maintain high environmental standards at the facility and have spoken
w
>ith the State Department of Environmental Conservation about the operation.
> "There's no problem with that," Codes Enforcement Officer Donald Lee
>said of environmental and health standards.
> He said there's enough room to spread goat manure, and the goats won't
>be near the Saranac River or any streams.
> State DEC officials did not return calls placed over the weekend.
>
>Ken
>---------------------------
>There's a war out there, old friend, a world war. And it's not about who's
>got the most bullets, it's about who controls the information. What we see
>and hear, how we work, what we think, it's all about the information!
> Cosmo, 'Sneakers'
>
>
>
>
Message no. 3
From: paulcollins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:37:57 +1000
>> About 150 goats that have been bred
>>with a spider gene are to be


Here's me thinking it was about rewriting Charlotte's web, and adding a nanny
charactor

Annachie.

(Token bad joke)
Message no. 4
From: Carsten Gehling carsten@**********.dk
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:48:09 +0200
From: Tzeentch <tzeentch666@*********.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 12:52 AM

> "We feel the site ... is a real adequate site and is in a very secure
> setting," Isabelle Trombley-Summers, Nexia site director of agricultural
> affairs, told the Plattsburgh Press-Republican.

Security for who? The male goats? Are people afraid they're gonna be eaten
by the female after breeding? ;^)

MAN it's hot today! Right now I envy you Doc'... It's winter down at your
place now, right?

- Carsten
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GC 3.12: GCS/M/P d- s+: a- C+++$>++++ UL++ P+>++ L+ !E W+++$
N+ o K- w+++$ O- M-- V-- PGP t++@ 5+@ X++ R++ tv+(++) b+(++)
DI++ D++ G++ e++ h-- r+++ y+++
Message no. 5
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:17:36 -0700
From: "Carsten Gehling" <carsten@**********.dk>
> > "We feel the site ... is a real adequate site and is in a very
secure
> > setting," Isabelle Trombley-Summers, Nexia site director of agricultural
> > affairs, told the Plattsburgh Press-Republican.
>
> Security for who? The male goats? Are people afraid they're gonna be eaten
> by the female after breeding? ;^)

For one thing there are a lot of wierdoes who fear this type of gengineering
and the animals have a very real risk of being killed by various groups
opposing gengineering. Second the material they are producing no doubt cost
the research companies involved a LOT of money and they don't want anyone
dealing in a bit of industrial espionage.

Also its an environmental issue (note the rest of the article discussing
their location away from the river). That's because for all they know the
animals byproducts could now be toxic. Better safe then sorry.

ObSR: I wonder how many runs involve stealing various "pharm" animals
involved in producing various chemical compounds....

Ken
---------------------------
There's a war out there, old friend, a world war. And it's not about who's
got the most bullets, it's about who controls the information. What we see
and hear, how we work, what we think, it's all about the information!
Cosmo, 'Sneakers'
Message no. 6
From: Stephen Guilliot s.guilliot@**********.edu
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:59:00 -0500
From: "Tzeentch" <tzeentch666@*********.net>
>The goats have been bred with a spider gene so their milk provides a
>unique protein. The company then plans to extract the protein from the milk
>to produce fibers - called BioSteel - for bulletproof vests, aerospace and
>medical supplies.

Hmm, I wonder why e-coli or yeast can't produce the protein. I mean, goats
are alot more expensive. Maybe this spider silk gene requires some
post-translational modifications that only animals and insects can perform.
Any biochemists with some additional insight?
Message no. 7
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:32:31 -0700 (PDT)
> > "We feel the site ... is a real adequate site
and is in a very secure setting," Isabelle
Trombley-Summers, Nexia site director of agricultural
affairs, told the Plattsburgh Press-Republican.
>
> Security for who? The male goats? Are people afraid
they're gonna be eaten by the female after breeding?
;^)

Naah...they've seen Arachnophobia too many times...

Think giant spider-goats getting out and spinning webs
in your backyard to catch your laundry...

*sob* No! Not my Colorados!!!

> MAN it's hot today! Right now I envy you Doc'...
It's winter down at your place now, right?
> - Carsten

Yup. Actually, today is enviable...19 degrees. The
past couple of weeks, though, we've had a cold snap
that would've made the arctic seem
temperate...*shiver*

*Doc' knows he's in trouble when he's kicked in the
balls by a passing mugger...and doesn't realise it...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 8
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:08:43 -0500
:Hmm, I wonder why e-coli or yeast can't produce the protein. I mean, goats
:are alot more expensive. Maybe this spider silk gene requires some
:post-translational modifications that only animals and insects can perform.
:Any biochemists with some additional insight?

I beleive labs at the university near my house use similar gene modified
animals to produce research phamacuiticals. Just guessing, but I think
growing and processing e-coli or yeast for the same purpose is more
expensive and complex. After all, once you do the trans-genetics, which is
harder to raise- a goat, or e-coli? Heck, hillbillies can raise and milk
goats, but can they raise a stable strain of e-coli or yeast culture??
Also just guessing here, a single celled creatures physiology may be
disrupted by the production of complex protiens, while milk glands are
supported by the animals body and can devote all thier energy to producing
various protiens and such- adding a new one doesn't strain the physiology.
It may just be the only way to do it, for bilogical reasons.
Another problem (maybe the biggest) is that e-coli and yeast go thorugh
many generations in the life of one goat or horse- mutation is almost
inevitable, and it is very hard to seperate the mutants from a culture.
Mutation of the spliced gene could be disasterous to phamcologocal reseach
if it resulted in a similar "looking" but very different "acting"
drug. If
the germs simply mutate to stop producing the compund entirely, they save a
lot of metabolic energy, and rapidly out-populate the useful germs.
This is probably the deciding factor, as its the one thing technology
probably can't work around. You can provide trained personel with proper
equipment, and develope advanced cultrue media, but you can't stop mutation
and evolution.

Seb


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Message no. 9
From: Stephen Guilliot s.guilliot@**********.edu
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 02:28:12 -0500
From: Michael Schmidt <Michael.Schmidt@****.uni-hannover.de>
>Proteines with these properties will have to be long inline
>macro-molecules. Perhaps they are to big to be produces inside of
>e-coli bacteria cells.
>Another explanation could be, that for bacteria based biochemical
>production a from the main genome separated dna-ring only bacteria
>possess is used. This ring can only have a specific lenght. If the
>dna-mask for the macro-proteine is too long for this ring the cell is not
>able to synthsize it.

Michael,
Your point is well taken. However, as I recall, spider silk macromolecules
are composed of smaller subunit proteins which covalently bond (strongly)
together. The bonding occurs outside the cell (triggered by pH?), since if
it happens inside, it becomes impossible to export. So, I believe that the
size of the protein alone will not prevent its use in bacteria. Thanks for
the reply.


From: "Sebastian Wiers" <m0ng005e@*****.com>
> Also just guessing here, a single celled creatures physiology may be
>disrupted by the production of complex proteins, while milk glands are
>supported by the animals body and can devote all thier energy to producing
>various protiens and such- adding a new one doesn't strain the physiology.
>It may just be the only way to do it, for bilogical reasons.
> Another problem (maybe the biggest) is that e-coli and yeast go thorugh
>many generations in the life of one goat or horse- mutation is almost
>inevitable, and it is very hard to separate the mutants from a culture.

Seb,
You correctly pointed out the problem of mutation, but there are ways to
prevent the loss of a target gene. Just remake the bioculture from frozen
stock after each harvest. The production of excess protein is disruptive to
the cell, as you pointed out. But that's OK, since usually the cells are
killed to harvest the product, anyway.
Also, single celled organisms are used to make most drugs because they are
so cheap. After all, you can grow bacteria/yeast by vat full, they're cheap
to feed, and don't have to be put out to graze. Even mice are avoided when
possible because they grow slowly (in comparison), require lots of hands on
maintenance, and don't produce the shear volume of protein that yeast can.
The only time animals are used for production is to provide some necessary
element that can't be found in a cheaper medium. In this case, that is the
mystery. Thanks for the input. It's cool to hear someone point out the
inevitability of evolution. :)

Steve G.
Message no. 10
From: Scot Hayworth scoth@*********.com
Subject: Ahh the wonders of biotech!
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 10:59:29 -0600
Well, with all the discussion on why it wasn't grown in Petrie Dishes or
what not...I thought they milked it from goats because goats can produce it
rather quickly and in large amounts which may be needed to bond in the
biosteel products.

Scot

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