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Message no. 1
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: AI's view of the matrix
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 12:52:13 +0200
How would an AI see the matrix? Will it be icons or something completly
different, like organic sculpures or something.
I ask because I want to give my decker a utitily which was created by an
AI and therefor I have to come up with something. I know what it does, but
I'm not sure what it should look like and want to hear your opinions.
Thanx for your time
bye,
Stefan
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e-mail: struck@****.informatik.uni-bonn.de
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Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: AI's view of the matrix
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 22:44:48 +0930
Stefan Struck wrote:
>
> How would an AI see the matrix? Will it be icons or something completly
> different, like organic sculpures or something.

It would depend on the nature of the intelligence... people always seem to
assume an AI would think like a human. If your AI does, then it probably
"sees" in a similar fashion to a decker. If it doesn't, then it may not be
limited by the constraints associated with any sort of interface, even one
as "natural" as a virtual reality.

> I ask because I want to give my decker a utitily which was created by an
> AI and therefor I have to come up with something. I know what it does, but
> I'm not sure what it should look like and want to hear your opinions.

I would have it have NO visual effect. In my game, that's not allowed, so
it'd shock my players... :) (More accurately, if no visual effect is coded
in, a generic one is assigned by the ASIST technology).

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 3
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: AI's view of the matrix
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 07:43:46 -0700
>Stefan writes:
>How would an AI see the matrix? Will it be icons or something completly
>different, like organic sculpures or something.
>I ask because I want to give my decker a utitily which was created by an
>AI and therefor I have to come up with something. I know what it
does, but
>I'm not sure what it should look like and want to hear your opinions.

Well as I see it AI is still *artificial* and even the most complex
AI systems
lack imagination.
So how would an AI see the matrix?... Well honestly it would see
it as a
binary string - but since it has *intelligence* It would represent
this as an
object (prob. a geometric shape with brief information for quick
reference.).

What should it look like??? Well I would think that it would have
alot to
do with the reference information the AI has access to. If it has
simple
dictionary/encyclopedia access - a trace and burn would prob look like
a flaming arrow, a datastore would look like a block of letters and
number
flying about inside it.
Something simple and to the point. Also prob. very idealistic.

Hope this helps...
Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 4
From: Guy Swartwood <gswartwo@*********.WICHITAKS.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: AI's view of the matrix
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 10:21:00 PDT
Gary wrote:

>>Stefan writes:
>>How would an AI see the matrix? Will it be icons or something completly
>>different, like organic sculpures or something.
>>I ask because I want to give my decker a utitily which was created by an
>>AI and therefor I have to come up with something. I know what it
>does, but
>>I'm not sure what it should look like and want to hear your opinions.

>Well as I see it AI is still *artificial* and even the most complex
>AI systems
>lack imagination.
>So how would an AI see the matrix?... Well honestly it would see
>it as a
>binary string - but since it has *intelligence* It would represent
>this as an
>object (prob. a geometric shape with brief information for quick
>reference.).
>
>What should it look like??? Well I would think that it would have
>alot to
>do with the reference information the AI has access to. If it has
>simple
>dictionary/encyclopedia access - a trace and burn would prob look like
>a flaming arrow, a datastore would look like a block of letters and
>number
>flying about inside it.
>Something simple and to the point. Also prob. very idealistic.
>
>Hope this helps...
>Thanks
>Gary C.

I think the AI wouldn't see it as an object at all. It view the matrix and
the 'objects' in the matrix as pure binary data. The only difference the AI
would see between a data store and a cpu is the string of data it would
receive. My reasoning is that AI's 'life' is a computer program in a
computer system somewhere, all it would need to see is pure data. We live in
a visual world, therefore we need and use object orientative perception.
Visualization objects of compnenets in the Matrix are for our benefit, not a
computers. It could be debateable that the computer could associate incoming
data to an object, but I think that is unneccary.

Now, to the question about an AI programs. It an AI created a program, I
would think that would tack on a standard icon/visual effect designated by
'standards' of the matrix or corp.

Guy Swartwood corporate decker by day, shadowrunner by night
wildman@******.net
gswartwo@*********.wichitaks.attgis.com
Message no. 5
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: AI's view of the matrix
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 17:59:36 +0200
> How would an AI see the matrix? Will it be icons or something completly
> different, like organic sculpures or something.

AIs will not be able to "see" the matrix. Computer networks/systems
will be to them what they really are - datastructures and code. To assume
anyhing more would be ludicrous. OTOH AIs will have a totally different
sort of intelligence and perception that we do, so their mental images
even of elementary things like a data structure will differ greatly from
our images.

> I ask because I want to give my decker a utitily which was created by an
> AI and therefor I have to come up with something. I know what it does, but
> I'm not sure what it should look like and want to hear your opinions.

How about a cube with "Utility X" written on it.

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 6
From: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.TS.ASTRO.IT>
Subject: Re: AI's view of the matrix
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 09:57:33 +0000
If the utility was created by the AI for the decker's use (not for the Ai
itself), then probably it will have a VISUAL tag. What the AI decided to put
into the tag is entirely at GM's discretion. But I suppose that was your
question :)

I think something quite bizarre. At the end, the tag should represent what the
AI thinks a human can perceive. It all depends on the AI's contacts with
humans.

Hope this helps

Bye, Paolo

--
________________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci ICBM: 45:38:12N 13:46:36E 95h
e-mail: marcucci@***.ts.astro.it
www: http://www.oat.ts.astro.it/marcucci/home.html
"Reboot it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" - Gareth Owen :)
Message no. 7
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: AI's view of the matrix
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 14:54:55 +0200
Hmmm ... thanx to everybody for the suggestions, but they don't bring
me closer to my goal. Maybe I should be more specific:
The present for the decker should be a MPCP designed by an AI (or a matrix
loa to be exact, but I think that doesn't matter and I don't want to start
a new magic in the matrix discussion). I thought that an reality filter
would give a nice touch and some kind of minor personality (smart-frame if
you don't like spirits) was built into this piece of hardware. It was
designed in a kind of biochip (like neuromancer or imago module) and therefor
a 'living thing' in it should be ok. Now, this presence shouldn't be obvious
to the decker, more like voices in his head in critical moments. There were
good descriptions in neuromancer etc. for this feeling.
But, the important part here (and the part I'm not sure of, yet) is the
reality filter. The matrix should feel like something natural 'cause the
AI/loa is actually living in it and doesn't know something else. I did a
run against a voodoo system and described it like something organic or a
living body, but I'm not happy with this solution.
So, I'm grateful for every piece of help I'll get.
bye,
Stefan
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e-mail: struck@****.informatik.uni-bonn.de
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Message no. 8
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: AI's view of the matrix
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 09:19:45 +0200
Stefan Struck wrote:
> How would an AI see the matrix? Will it be icons or something completly
> different, like organic sculpures or something.
> I ask because I want to give my decker a utitily which was created by an
> AI and therefor I have to come up with something. I know what it does, but
> I'm not sure what it should look like and want to hear your opinions.

If an AI "reads" the output of the Matrix differently to humans,
it would "write" it differently, too. So IMHO an icon may either look
like some icon the AI has met before, or maybe even the cloud of static
pixels you get when mixing the picture of some IC with the thought of
"defense".
Message no. 9
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: AI's view of the matrix
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 17:16:48 +0930
Sascha Pabst wrote:
>
> Stefan Struck wrote:
> > How would an AI see the matrix? Will it be icons or something completly
> > different, like organic sculpures or something.
> > I ask because I want to give my decker a utitily which was created by an
> > AI and therefor I have to come up with something. I know what it does, but
> > I'm not sure what it should look like and want to hear your opinions.
>
> If an AI "reads" the output of the Matrix differently to humans,
> it would "write" it differently, too. So IMHO an icon may either look
> like some icon the AI has met before, or maybe even the cloud of static
> pixels you get when mixing the picture of some IC with the thought of
> "defense".

Nice idea, but I don't see the Matrix working that way.

The UMS (Universal Matrix Specifications) require _all_ elements of the
Matrix to have a _visual_ manifestation. More accurately, it must have some
interface which interacts with the ASIST code in the deck to produce the
idea that the decker is seeing something.

Not every piece of software or hardware in the Matrix have this interface
defined within it. Indeed, this is the norm, rather than the exception. In
most cases, the way the Matrix element interacts allows the UMS that's
coded into the deck's firmware decide "this is an Attack program", or
whatever. That's what the generic icons are for.

An AI would either not have the ability to interpret this interface, and so
would ignore it (resulting in a generic icon being assigned), or would
create an icon that represented the way it thought about what the program
did (or maybe not... Maybe it wants to be tricky. :) ) The fun here is that
the way it thinks about what a program would do could be different to what
you think it does. For example, an Evaluate program would work differently
for an AI than a human, for the concept of _value_ would be different.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***

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