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Message no. 1
From: ftmck@**.netcom.com (Frank McKinney )
Subject: Ally spirits
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 17:37:17 -0800
I've been looking for a good answer to this question.

What kind of damage does a manifesting ally spirit do in combat?
Unarmed or armed combat damage, (force)M, lethal, subdual? What?

Thanks in advance

Frank
Message no. 2
From: Adrian Mink <psu01071@****.cc.pdx.edu>
Subject: Re: Ally spirits
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 19:52:08 -0800 (PST)
On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Frank McKinney wrote:

> I've been looking for a good answer to this question.
>
> What kind of damage does a manifesting ally spirit do in combat?
> Unarmed or armed combat damage, (force)M, lethal, subdual? What?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Frank
>
I'm pretty sure that ally spirits use the same rules for combat as all
other spirits, (force)M. In astral space the spirit can choose to do
physical or stun damage, at it's preference. One difference is that free
spirits also have spirit energy, which they can add to their force rating
for all purposes.

-adrian
Message no. 3
From: Justin Thomas <Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Ally spirits
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 23:16:13 -0600
At 10:53 PM 1/3/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Frank McKinney wrote:
>
>> I've been looking for a good answer to this question.
>>
>> What kind of damage does a manifesting ally spirit do in combat?
>> Unarmed or armed combat damage, (force)M, lethal, subdual? What?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Frank
>>
> I'm pretty sure that ally spirits use the same rules for combat as all
>other spirits, (force)M. In astral space the spirit can choose to do
>physical or stun damage, at it's preference. One difference is that free
>spirits also have spirit energy, which they can add to their force rating
>for all purposes.
>
> -adrian
>
>
>

shouldn't they be able to attack (and use the same rules) and normal pc
characters?
******************************
Justin Thomas
"Farr"
Email:
thom0767@****.tc.umn.edu
or if that doesn't work
Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu
or
justin.thomas@*********.mn.org
Message no. 4
From: "SHANE J. WINZAR" <s702399@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: ally spirits?
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:03:01 +1000
I was just making up a new mage character for a new run
and I was wondering about getting an ally spirit

How many of you mages/shamans out there have ally spirits?
Do you think they are worth the horrendous amount of
karma you have to pump into them, not to mention the
loss of a MP (unless they are summoned as an Initiation
ordeal)...and what force is 'good' or most common to
start a ally at?

-Tamino

---------------------------------------------------
Tamino aka Shane Winzar : s702399@*******.gu.edu.au
---------------------------------------------------
Message no. 5
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits?
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:19:25 -0400
Shane asks:

{How many of you mages/shamans out there have ally spirits?
Do you think they are worth the horrendous amount of
karma you have to pump into them, not to mention the
loss of a MP (unless they are summoned as an Initiation
ordeal)...and what force is 'good' or most common to
start a ally at?}

........................................................................
.........................................
Jonothon Hawksmore, Talismonger shop propriator replys:

I have one PC, and one NPC who have ally spirits, and I think
they're worth it, if only for a good source of character development and
roleplaying. They can help provide a 'second' viewpoint for a mage when
he's working on a problem, a helping hand in a fight, a friend when
they're alone, or a healthy 'tough love antagonist' to get the character
moving. Threat them as individual entities, with their own personalities
and quirks, especially if they manage to get free <evil grin>. Sometimes
these are drawn from the mage's own subconscious, depending on the ally
formuli utilized in the conjuration.
I started both of my ally spirits off at Force 4 [can't say what
they're at now, some of my players may be listening :-}. That's a good
round,pretty useful level to run them around at, IMO. Play them smart,
and you may never have to raise them up any further.
They do burn Karma like a mother on conception, but I think they're
neat to have around, so start saving up those points right now!

Hawksmore, whose vainly wondering how to get rid of his <grin>.
Message no. 6
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: ally spirits?
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:17:41 +1000
At 02:03 25/09/97 +1000, SHANE J. WINZAR wrote:
> How many of you mages/shamans out there have ally spirits?
> Do you think they are worth the horrendous amount of
> karma you have to pump into them, not to mention the
> loss of a MP (unless they are summoned as an Initiation
> ordeal)...and what force is 'good' or most common to
> start a ally at?

Burn karma? Oh mother, is that a fact. But they're immensely rewarding for
both players and GMs. In our game three players (who are also the main GMs)
have magicians with ally spirits or, more correctly, familiars since they
were gained through initiation. One, Breeze, is the familiar of a Cat
shaman with the true form of a beautiful, young Native American lady. She
is mischievous (sometimes to a cruel degree) and (mostly) a lot of fun. The
second, Ayahulthra, is the familiar of a combat mage with the true form of
a PCC infantry soldier. He is steady, loyal, likes a good yarn but does not
suffer fools gladly. The last, Doctor, is the familiar of an air
elementalist with the true form of the elementalist's dead lover (the
glorious chaos!). He is a bit naive but a good medic. They all, more or
less, are fully fleshed out characters with fully developed character sheets.

The allies were all designed at force 4. Breeze has now reached force 6 via
buckets of karma from her shaman. Force 4 is a good starting point as this
gives the ally enough toughness to survive the minor tribulations of the
world while still being affordable. Any starting force higher than this
should probably be avoided since the large requisite karma would be better
spent on multiple forms, good skills and spells for the ally. Good skills
and spells will help an ally survive and acts as a force multiplier to the
magician's own abilities.

These allies were only summoned after the magicians had gained enough
experience to be able to afford the karma diversion and to have gained the
power to be able to protect their allies (all are shielded where possible).
Nevertheless, the players have become a bit more thoughtful since gaining
their allies. They tend to plan ahead and think things through so as to
minimize risk to their allies. Further, the allies are a device the GM can
use any time to influence the characters as well as being a hoot to
roleplay. :-)

Chris



_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart: "You
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> know, just once I'd like to meet an alien
Canberra, Australia menace that wasn't immune to bullets."
Message no. 7
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ally spirits?
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:25:08 GMT
Chris Maxfield writes

> At 02:03 25/09/97 +1000, SHANE J. WINZAR wrote:
> > How many of you mages/shamans out there have ally spirits?
> > Do you think they are worth the horrendous amount of
> > karma you have to pump into them, not to mention the
> > loss of a MP (unless they are summoned as an Initiation
> > ordeal)...and what force is 'good' or most common to
> > start a ally at?
>
> Burn karma? Oh mother, is that a fact. But they're immensely rewarding for
> both players and GMs. In our game three players (who are also the main GMs)
> have magicians with ally spirits or, more correctly, familiars since they
> were gained through initiation.

> The allies were all designed at force 4. Breeze has now reached force 6 via
> buckets of karma from her shaman.

Sounds good but i assume these characters must have 100's of karma, i
have so far had one force 4 ally spirit show up from an NPC, the
spirit plus initiation set him back about 80 karma points. Which is
enough to eat a Harlequins back karma award in one go! The problem is
near the sort of stuff i'm used to seeing with a 200 kamra PC a force
4 spirit is so much target practice, my sec guards these days use
groups of force 10's and they still get splattered all over the place
(ok this sort of thing is only moderately common but and the kamra
totals range from 200-400 in that game)

The force 6 great from nature spirit though that wnet free when the
metaplanar quest knocked out the shaman that was summoning it has
been a lot of fun, its a parrot (because i felt like it at the time)
and 'Squaaark!!!!' has quite an effect :). Things got a bit
interesting when the two met because the ally belonged to a blood
mage (now in the hands of the Draco foundation) and the parrot didn't
like it but thanks to a quickened barrier on the ally couldn't kill it
despite an effect force of about 8.

Yes i would like to see more ally spirits, but a cost more like 5
karma per force so you can get a force 6 with skills and forms for
about 30 not 100 would make the investment much more reasonable. I
look at 100 karma, and the first flame bomb spell into an unarmoured
target and shudder.

Mark
Message no. 8
From: Timothy Little <t_little@**********.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: ally spirits?
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:28:24 +1000
At 02:03 AM 9/25/97 +1000, Tamino wrote:
>
> How many of you mages/shamans out there have ally spirits?

<hand up> Me! (ie. Dasce)
Also Ladyhawk, a shaman in the group, has one.

> Do you think they are worth the horrendous amount of
> karma you have to pump into them, not to mention the
> loss of a MP (unless they are summoned as an Initiation
> ordeal)

If you're going to get an ally, always, always, always:
Summon it as an Initiation ordeal!

The karma cost is still fairly large, of course, but lots of karma *and* a
magic point is just too much.


>...and what force is 'good' or most common to start a ally at?

Fairly low force, or the karma cost gets far too high.

Dasce summoned an embodied Force 3, and gave it Enchanting skill and a few
spells (and a special Unarmed combat skill since the GM ruled that it
didn't naturally have one in its physical body).
Skye (the ally spirit) mainly carries out spell design and maintains the
alchemy lab while Dasce is out doing ops.

Ladyhawk summoned a spirit-form Force 5 called Dancing Fire, and brings him
along on dangerous shadowruns.
... but I think she's crazy anyway.

--
Little One
Message no. 9
From: niteGlo Messiah <levbar@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: ally spirits?
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:07:09 -0400
> I was just making up a new mage character for a new run
> and I was wondering about getting an ally spirit

Ally spirits are great. It's like a buddy that does everything you tell it
to do! I don't recommend them at character creation, however. You should
develop your character more. If you really want one now, get it at about
force 2 or 3. You can change them later when you have karma to burn.

Metal Phoenix
Message no. 10
From: Sean Martinez <el_bandit@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ally spirits?
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:53:40 -0400
>Ally spirits are great. It's like a buddy that does everything you tell
it
>to do! I don't recommend them at character creation, however.

I would hate to be you when the ally spirit goes free.

Ally spirits tend to have a personality, and sometimes the player needs
to consider if what they are telling them to do is detrimental to the
spirits well being.

-El Bandit

Http://members.aol.com/elbandit/index.html
Message no. 11
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Ally Spirits
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:29:46 +1000
A thought came to me today in a game session, about Ally Spirits, and
how frustrating having your Ally Spirit banished is. To me, an Ally
Spirit seems too weak and easily gotten-rid-of. When you've pumped that
much Karma into something that is a real roleplaying aid, banishment
tends to induce thoughts of homicide.

It seems to me that it should be harder to banish an Ally spirit than a
regular spirit, since the summoner creates such a strong bond between
himself and his ally. To this end, how about modifying the target number
for banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of Karma the summoner
has spent on it. (I was thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested +1 per
20.) This reflects the strengthening of the bond as Karma is spent. What
do you all think?


Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
"No more drugs for that man!" - Dietrich, Face/Off
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******..dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 07:37:51 -0400
In a message dated 97-10-01 07:30:03 EDT, you write:

> A thought came to me today in a game session, about Ally Spirits, and
> how frustrating having your Ally Spirit banished is. To me, an Ally
> Spirit seems too weak and easily gotten-rid-of. When you've pumped that
> much Karma into something that is a real roleplaying aid, banishment
> tends to induce thoughts of homicide.
>
> It seems to me that it should be harder to banish an Ally spirit than a
> regular spirit, since the summoner creates such a strong bond between
> himself and his ally. To this end, how about modifying the target number
> for banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of Karma the summoner
> has spent on it. (I was thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested +1 per
> 20.) This reflects the strengthening of the bond as Karma is spent. What
> do you all think?

First of all, banishment of the ally does not mean the end of the world.

As for a method of defense against banishment, perhaps your gm would allow
the mage in question to put initiate shielding onto the ally and that would
increase the target number for banishing the ally.

Another thing the mage could do is put a Detect Banishing Attempt (against
your ally spirit only) anchoring with a combat spell directly tied into it.
Or maybe not even a combat spell, how about an Analyze Banishment spell that
would give the ally extra dice to resist the banishment.

Either way, I do sympathize ...
Message no. 13
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:58:43 +1000
At 21:29 1/10/97 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote:
>It seems to me that it should be harder to banish an Ally spirit than a
>regular spirit, since the summoner creates such a strong bond between
>himself and his ally. To this end, how about modifying the target number
>for banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of Karma the summoner
>has spent on it. (I was thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested +1 per
>20.) This reflects the strengthening of the bond as Karma is spent. What
>do you all think?

A good idea. Another idea, along the lines of a special strong bond between
ally and summoner, is to allow the summoner to assist his ally spirit as if
it was a control test i.e when a hostile magician attempts to banish an
ally, the ally's summoner makes a conjuring test, regardless of whether he
has any actions available at that moment, and each of his successes
nullifies one of the banisher's successes. This is a bit of game mechanics
that reflects how tight the bond is between summoner and ally. Further, it
also shows how that bond grows weaker as the ally grows stronger in force.

Another house rule, one that we use, is to declare the relationship between
summoner and ally to be so close that the ally has full and unrestricted
access to the summoner's karma pool i.e. they share the pool. The ally,
however, does not contribute towards the pool. As the magicians in our game
tend to be reasonably experienced before they attempt the ritual of ally
summoning, this gives the ally access to a nice, not-so-little,
spirit-saving karma pool e.g. re-rolls, extra dice for success tests,
buying successes (and don't the magicians both laugh and cry when they are
able and must do this to save an ally).

Chris

_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart: "You
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> know, just once I'd like to meet an alien
Canberra, Australia menace that wasn't immune to bullets."
Message no. 14
From: "SHANE J. WINZAR" <s702399@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:50:57 +1000
Lady Jestyr spoke thusly :

<snip>

> It seems to me that it should be harder to banish an Ally spirit than a
> regular spirit, since the summoner creates such a strong bond between
> himself and his ally. To this end, how about modifying the target number
> for banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of Karma the summoner
> has spent on it. (I was thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested +1 per
> 20.) This reflects the strengthening of the bond as Karma is spent. What
> do you all think?

I think it's a good idea, 'cause as it stands a halfway decent
mage only has to look crossly in the direction of my little
ally spirit (force 4) and he's toast. (NB. this is slightly biased
opinion of course ;) Because of the close personal connection an ally
spirit has with it's summoner at the very least the mage should
be able to donate some 'strength' whether it be by Lady J's idea
or (I'm hazy on how to banish ally spirits) if the spirit gets
to roll to prevent banishment have the mage 'donate' some Magic
pool dice up to and equal to the spirit force to add to a resist
roll or something...does that make sense? :) anyway you get the idea.

-Tamino

---------------------------------------------------------
Tamino aka Shane Winzar : s702399@*****.student.gu.edu.au
---------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:56:07 -0500
Lady Jestyr wrote:
>It seems to me that it should be harder to
>banish an Ally spirit than a regular spirit, since
>the summoner creates such a strong bond
>between himself and his ally. To this end, how
>about modifying the target number for
>banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of
>Karma the summoner has spent on it. (I was
>thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested
>+1 per 20.)

I'd prefer that the spirit gets to add his owner's
magic rating to his force for the purposes of
resisting a banishing (but only for "defense", not
for the "counterattack"). Hmm, that does add a
bit much. How about he can only add up to his
own force as a maximum, so at most you can
double your effective force.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 16
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:28:43 +1000
> It seems to me that it should be harder to banish an Ally spirit than a
> regular spirit, since the summoner creates such a strong bond between
> himself and his ally. To this end, how about modifying the target number
> for banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of Karma the summoner
> has spent on it. (I was thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested +1 per
> 20.) This reflects the strengthening of the bond as Karma is spent. What
> do you all think?

How about making it an opposed conjuring test between you and the other mage,
much like trying to steal control of a spirit.

NightRain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
Message no. 17
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:59:28 -0800
At 9:28 AM 10/2/97, Ray & Tamara wrote:
<Snip stuff about banishing ally spirits
>
>How about making it an opposed conjuring test between you and the other mage,
>much like trying to steal control of a spirit.
>

'Cause, IMO, it still doesn't take into account the karma the summoning
mage has invested into the ally. We use a force plus summoner's Magic
rating/2 in our game. Course we also rule that the summoner also knows
immediately that someone is trying to banish his/her ally.

Last time someone tried that on my shaman's ally a whole lot of explosive
ordinance headed their way. Solved the whole banishment problem nicely
thank you very much.

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design

"Cartman, what the hell are you talking about?"

-
GC3.1 GCA$ d- s: a- C++++ U P L E? W+ N++ o K w-- O- M++$ V--
PS++ PE Y+ PGP- t 5 X+ R+++$ tv- b++ DI++ D--- G++ e++ h--- r++ y+
-
Message no. 18
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:22:39 +1000
> > It seems to me that it should be harder to banish an Ally spirit than a
> > regular spirit, since the summoner creates such a strong bond between
> > himself and his ally. To this end, how about modifying the target number
> > for banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of Karma the summoner
> > has spent on it. (I was thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested +1 per
> > 20.) This reflects the strengthening of the bond as Karma is spent. What
> > do you all think?
>
> How about making it an opposed conjuring test between you and the other mage,
> much like trying to steal control of a spirit.

If you do that I would think that the owner of the spirit should have
some bonuses, to reflect the fact that this is tied very closely to the
owner...

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
"No more drugs for that man!" - Dietrich, Face/Off
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 19
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:52:28 +1000
At 13:22 2/10/97 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote:
>At 9:28 AM 10/2/97, Ray & Tamara wrote:
>> How about making it an opposed conjuring test between you and the other
mage,
>> much like trying to steal control of a spirit.
>
>If you do that I would think that the owner of the spirit should have
>some bonuses, to reflect the fact that this is tied very closely to the
>owner...

Absolutely. The 'owner'(?) should get the force of the ally as bonus dice
while the banisher should suffer the +2 penalty straight out of the spirit
control contest mechanics - although we are discussing Lady Jestyr's
banishment scenario, not a control contest, and so any sort of control
contest is an improvement over the straight vanilla banishment rules.
Alternately, as I suggested yesterday, the 'owner' could first roll the
control contest mechanics to reduce (or eliminate) the banisher's successes
allowing the ally to more easily resist the banishment attempt.

Chris


_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart: "You
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> know, just once I'd like to meet an alien
Canberra, Australia menace that wasn't immune to bullets."
Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:25:49 +0100
Lady Jestyr said on 21:29/ 1 Oct 97...

> A thought came to me today in a game session, about Ally Spirits, and
> how frustrating having your Ally Spirit banished is. To me, an Ally
> Spirit seems too weak and easily gotten-rid-of. When you've pumped that
> much Karma into something that is a real roleplaying aid, banishment
> tends to induce thoughts of homicide.

Makes sense, should the NPCs in the game you're in have a tendency to try
and banish ally spirits whenever they encounter them.

> It seems to me that it should be harder to banish an Ally spirit than a
> regular spirit, since the summoner creates such a strong bond between
> himself and his ally. To this end, how about modifying the target number
> for banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of Karma the summoner
> has spent on it. (I was thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested +1 per
> 20.) This reflects the strengthening of the bond as Karma is spent. What
> do you all think?

Sounds like a workable idea; maybe you should do some test-banishings to
see if the 1:10 or 1:20 ratio works (or something in between, like 1:15).
An alternative would be to increase the ally's Force for banishings only
-- for example add 50% to the number of dice it rolls in a banishing test
made against it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zo buurman, ik hier?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 21
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:29:23 +1000
> > > It seems to me that it should be harder to banish an Ally spirit than a
> > > regular spirit, since the summoner creates such a strong bond between
> > > himself and his ally. To this end, how about modifying the target
number
> > > for banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of Karma the
summoner
> > > has spent on it. (I was thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested +1
per
> > > 20.) This reflects the strengthening of the bond as Karma is spent.
What
> > > do you all think?
> >
> > How about making it an opposed conjuring test between you and the other
mage,
> > much like trying to steal control of a spirit.
>
> If you do that I would think that the owner of the spirit should have
> some bonuses, to reflect the fact that this is tied very closely to the
> owner...

I don't know. Most spirits just get banished by the opposing mage without
the mage that owns the spirit having any effect on things. This gives him
the bonus of being able to directly effect the enemy mage's chance of getting
rid of the ally.

NightRain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
Message no. 22
From: Timothy Little <t_little@**********.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:49:53 +1100
At 09:29 PM 10/1/97 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
>A thought came to me today in a game session, about Ally Spirits, and
>how frustrating having your Ally Spirit banished is. To me, an Ally
>Spirit seems too weak and easily gotten-rid-of. When you've pumped that
>much Karma into something that is a real roleplaying aid, banishment
>tends to induce thoughts of homicide.

There are a few things that I can't recall seeing in the rules about
banishing allies.

One is whether you can just reconjure the ally at no Karma cost (after all,
you have already given the Ally its Force, skills and abilities, and that's
what you spend Karma on.

A second is whether you can banish an Ally without its formula - it might
be like a free spirit in that you can't banish it without it's 'name'.

I think either or both are reasonable rules to play under. The second in
particular would make an interesting run.

Possibly, you could rule that without the formula, the ally is banished
'temporarily' - it can be reconjured at no karma cost. With the formula,
it's gone for good.

--
Little One
Message no. 23
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:00:53 -0400
Timothy Little spake:

>Possibly, you could rule that without the formula, the ally is banished
>temporarily' - it can be reconjured at no karma cost. With the formula,
>it's gone for good.

........................................................................
...............................

Now THIS is a good idea. Simple, yet elegant. Put a banished Ally
Spirit on the same 'waiting room' time as a free spirit with the Power
_Hidden Life_, arguing that because of the heavy karmic bond with it's
summoner due to the great investure of energy and creation formula, that
person provides the anchor by which the spirit can be called back if
it's banished.
And if the Ally ever attains it's freedom, it looses that anchor,
and must aquire something like the Hidden Life ability to retain the
same advantages.

Kuddos, Little One!!!

Jonothon Hawksmore
Talismonger, and Purveyor of Curious Goods
________________________________________
George Kuffs: I'm looking for a really big gun which holds a lot of
bullets.
Gun Salesman: God bless you, young man.
<Kuffs looking into camera: I always wanted a gun.>
Salesman: Is this what you had in mind? It's a 9mm Beretta. 15 in the
clip, 1 in the pipe.
Kufffs: Got one that holds more?
Salesman: No...
Kuffs: I'll take two.
- from the movie _Kuffs_
Message no. 24
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:01:00 GMT
on 01.10.97 jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU wrote:

j> It seems to me that it should be harder to banish an Ally spirit than a
j> regular spirit, since the summoner creates such a strong bond between
j> himself and his ally. To this end, how about modifying the target number
j> for banishing an Ally, giving it a +1 per 'amount' of Karma the summoner
j> has spent on it. (I was thinking +1 per 10 Karma, my GM suggested +1 per
j> 20.) This reflects the strengthening of the bond as Karma is spent. What
j> do you all think?

Sounds good. And I would take the +1/10 rule, maybe even less. Another
thing: That ally gets (some of) its energy von the mage, doesn't it? Maybe
the mage can get hurt, depending on the strengh of the spirit. Losing an
ally you've had for years might even cost you a MP, I think, as it would
be a shock to your 'magical system'.
Hmmmm...would make then very interesting and dangerous....



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 25
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:58:37 +1000
Tobias wrote:
> Sounds good. And I would take the +1/10 rule, maybe even less. Another
> thing: That ally gets (some of) its energy von the mage, doesn't it? Maybe
> the mage can get hurt, depending on the strengh of the spirit. Losing an
> ally you've had for years might even cost you a MP, I think, as it would
> be a shock to your 'magical system'.
> Hmmmm...would make then very interesting and dangerous....

But it all ready has cost you a magic point to summon it.

NightRain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
Message no. 26
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:59:00 GMT
on 09.10.97 macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU wrote:
m> Tobias wrote:
m> > Sounds good. And I would take the +1/10 rule, maybe even less. Another
m> > thing: That ally gets (some of) its energy von the mage, doesn't it?
m> > Maybe the mage can get hurt, depending on the strengh of the spirit.
m> > Losing an ally you've had for years might even cost you a MP, I think, as
m> > it would be a shock to your 'magical system'.
m> > Hmmmm...would make then very interesting and dangerous....
m>
m> But it all ready has cost you a magic point to summon it.

I never said it was nice to the mage, did I? It just pretty well simulates
the problems you should get when someone blows something away that's now
an integral part of your mind (and it's just so great to explain).




Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 27
From: SThanatos <sthanatos@*********.COM>
Subject: Ally Spirits
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:40:20 -0500
Two questions:

1) How is disruption and damage calculated on Ally Spirits? Nowhere, (as
far as I can tell) is it specified in Grimoire how Allys take hits. It
seems rather silly to assume that they take damage like any other spirit,
or they would constantly lose force points, and would be a severe karma drain.

2) Do Ally spirits have the powers of nature spirits, elementals? or just
the small listing of powers listed in Grimoire?

Ryan Yokley
Kaoz Computer Group
<http://home.earthlink.net/~ryokley>;
Home of the SRCA
Message no. 28
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:01:45 PST
>Two questions:
>
>1) How is disruption and damage calculated on Ally Spirits? Nowhere,
(as
>far as I can tell) is it specified in Grimoire how Allys take hits. It
>seems rather silly to assume that they take damage like any other
spirit,
>or they would constantly lose force points, and would be a severe karma
drain.

I'm not really sure. I've always done the same for regular spirits,
except that the lose of force points is temporary.

>
>2) Do Ally spirits have the powers of nature spirits, elementals? or
just
>the small listing of powers listed in Grimoire?

"The small listing of powers"? But what powers! At any rate, yes,
just those listed.


-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I
am right."
-Ashleigh Brilliant


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 29
From: Dust <rogan@******.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:08:25 -0800
On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, SThanatos wrote:

> Two questions:
>
> 1) How is disruption and damage calculated on Ally Spirits? Nowhere, (as
> far as I can tell) is it specified in Grimoire how Allys take hits. It
> seems rather silly to assume that they take damage like any other spirit,
> or they would constantly lose force points, and would be a severe karma drain.

They take damage like normal spirits. When they are disrupted you've got
to go on an astral quest to bring them back. The next time you ask them
for a service they regain their lost force points.

>
> 2) Do Ally spirits have the powers of nature spirits, elementals? or just
> the small listing of powers listed in Grimoire?
>

Ally spirits have the powers of whatever spirit you chose to make them.
For instance you can have a fire elemental or a wind spirit as an ally.
nature spirit allies don't have domain restrictions. You pay extra karma
for extra powers.

Lates,

Dust
Message no. 30
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:37:17 -0500
At 06:08 PM 3/15/98 -0800, you wrote:

>Ally spirits have the powers of whatever spirit you chose to make them.
>For instance you can have a fire elemental or a wind spirit as an ally.
>nature spirit allies don't have domain restrictions. You pay extra karma
>for extra powers.

House rules.

losthalo
Message no. 31
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:10:07 +0100
SThanatos said on 17:40/15 Mar 98...

> 1) How is disruption and damage calculated on Ally Spirits? Nowhere, (as
> far as I can tell) is it specified in Grimoire how Allys take hits. It
> seems rather silly to assume that they take damage like any other spirit,
> or they would constantly lose force points, and would be a severe karma drain.

They take damage like other spirits do, AFAIK. Also, since allies usually
have Immunity to Normal Weapons, they won't take damage all that often.

> 2) Do Ally spirits have the powers of nature spirits, elementals? or just
> the small listing of powers listed in Grimoire?

Only those in the Grimoire. They can be plenty powerful with those,
especially because only one of them cost Karma to add to the ally (which,
incidentally, I've always found very strange).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Rebel without a chance
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 32
From: Da Twink Daddy <twinkie@*******.DMSC.K12.AR.US>
Subject: Re: Ally Spirits
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:07:48 -0600
-----Original Message-----
From: SThanatos <sthanatos@*********.COM>


>Two questions:


This is the place for them,

>1) How is disruption and damage calculated on Ally Spirits? Nowhere, (as
>far as I can tell) is it specified in Grimoire how Allys take hits. It
>seems rather silly to assume that they take damage like any other spirit,
>or they would constantly lose force points, and would be a severe karma
drain.


I assumed dthat they took damage just like normal spirits, mages IMCs tend
to be protective of their allies.

>2) Do Ally spirits have the powers of nature spirits, elementals? or just
>the small listing of powers listed in Grimoire?


Well, allies can be from either type of plane but, the Grimmy states
specifically that they recive no powers by nature of their "home plane." So,
I asssumed that this meant no other powers besides those listed.

Da Twink Daddy ( twinkie@*******.dmsc.k12.ar.us gilmeth@*********.com
UIN:514984)
----------
"Don't hit me!! I'm in the Twilight Zone!!!" --Zippy the Pinhead
----------
http://vancove.dmsc.k12.ar.us/~twinkie/
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/3759/

Further Reading

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