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Message no. 1
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: Alphabet soup ammo
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 14:03:25 -0500
For fun and profit, what I know of the various labels:

AP Armor piercing; ammo made hard/tough to penetrate armor with kinetic
energy.
HE High explosive.
HEAT High explosive anti tank, aka shaped charges. A shaped charge
uses shaped explosives to form a high speed molten metal jet
that cuts through armor. Shaped charges are vulnerable to
going off at the wrong distance or having the jet disrupted
by other means, and so have fallen out of favor as tank-killers.
They're still your best bet for man-portable antitank weapons;
it's hard to port around something that will kick out AP fast
enough.
DU depleted uranium. Used by some countries for AP ammunition;
other countries use tungsten, either because it's easier to
get and use (USSR) or because they don't want to deal with
uranium (Britain, Germany, Japan I believe).
DS Discarding sabot. A sabot is a filler used to increase the
effective caliber of a round, enabling you to use more powder
to throw the same sized round, effectively increasing its
velocity. Discarding sabots fall off the round after it leaves
the gun muzzle; don't stand in front, or you can get hit.
FS fin stabilized. A round can be spin-stabilized (from rifled things),
or fired smoothbore and stabilized with fins. Smoothbore firing
has some advantages that I don't understand (Rat?) that makes
quite a few tank gun designers use it.

The latest rage in armor-killers is hypervelocity weapons. By 2050,
it's sure to be something else instead; use your imagination.

- cks
Message no. 2
From: A cohort's CoHort <cohort@******.CONNECTED.COM>
Subject: Re: Alphabet soup ammo
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 16:10:04 -0800
On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Chris Siebenmann wrote:
> FS fin stabilized. A round can be spin-stabilized (from rifled things),
> or fired smoothbore and stabilized with fins. Smoothbore firing
> has some advantages that I don't understand (Rat?) that makes
> quite a few tank gun designers use it.
>
FS uses air pressure (basically) to stabilize it, and therefore, what it
uses to stabilize itself also slows it down somewhat, making FS rounds
shorter-distance weapons.
But, conversely, rifling also allows more of the expanding gasses in
the chamber to pass the round, and even though they retain their speed,
their muzzle velocity tends to be lower (if every other point in the
equation is the same) than their FS cousins.
Seems to me that FS rounds and smoothbore barrels are most useful at
close ranges, where "normal" rounds and rifled barrels are more useful
for longer ranges, especially for AP, where the velocity at the target
should be high.
Also seems to me that FS rounds are most useful if they are also DS,
since after leaving the barrel, they become smaller, and therefore have a
lower Cd (drag coefficient - sorry, I'm an ME), and would tend to retain
their velocity better.

CoHort@******.connected.com | Overheard at a bridge table:
@******* Genesis | "So, do you know the value of notrump?"
(jericho.connected.com 4040) | "Yeah, it should be just a bit larger than
(Stellar down due to TD :( ) | your shoulders."
Message no. 3
From: Matt <mosbun@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alphabet soup ammo
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 20:46:15 -0500
To add on...

SLAP: Saboted Light Armor Piercing. Not to be confused with Thwap... ;)
Message no. 4
From: jacob hawkins <HAWKINSJ@********.WA.COM>
Subject: Re: Alphabet soup ammo
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 16:42:28 LCL
Twilight 2000 has a good listing of the different ammo types. I'll
borrow a buddy's sourcebook and see if I can find any ways to convert
them to SR if anyone's interested. I think though it mainly deals
with artillery rounds and mortar shells. I would be interested to
see some other different ammo types for SR rules. I do have rules
for subsonic rounds and will post them next time I'm on.

/----\
\------\
\------/NAKEbait-------<
Message no. 5
From: Neal A Porter <nap@*****.PHYSICS.SWIN.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Alphabet soup ammo
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 14:21:26 +1100
>
>For fun and profit, what I know of the various labels:
>
>AP Armor piercing;
>HE High explosive.
>HEAT High explosive anti tank,
>DU depleted uranium.
>DS Discarding sabot.
>FS fin stabilized.
>
> - cks


You forgot HESH, High Explosive Squash Head.I'm not sure if its used
much but its definantly around.
It works like a flying ball of plastic explosive, when it hits it target is
'Squashes' onto it and then detonates. Rather than penatrating the armour
though it throws off an internal 'scab' of armour with the vehicle, which
then turns whatevers inside into spare parts.

I think its out of favor at the moment, as the internal configuration
of most modern tanks defeat the 'scab' principle.

A'Deus.
Message no. 6
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alphabet soup ammo
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 23:06:38 -0600
There are several flavours of ammo that will appear in NERPS: ShadowLore
when it is released next month.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> In the United States, they
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> first came for us in Colorado...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 7
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alphabet soup ammo
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 10:47:52 -0500
>>>>> "NAP" == Neal A Porter <nap@*****.physics.swin.oz.au>
writes:

NAP> It works like a flying ball of plastic explosive, when it hits it
NAP> target is 'Squashes' onto it and then detonates. Rather than
NAP> penatrating the armour though it throws off an internal 'scab' of
NAP> armour with the vehicle, which then turns whatevers inside into spare
NAP> parts.

The term is ``spalling.''

|||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ||||
| Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> WWW Page: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/USER/ratinox |
| GAT d--@ -p+ c++ !l u+ e+(*) m-(+) s n---(+) h-- f !g(+) w+ t- r+ y+ |
|...kcab nrut ,kcab nrut ,kcab nruT .ton si emit tub elbisrever si cisum ehT|
| ``hgiH nO eriF'' ,OLE-- |
|||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ||||
Message no. 8
From: "I. M. Legion" <legion@***.SC.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alphabet soup ammo
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 09:47:24 -0700
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> writes:
>>>>>> "NAP" == Neal A Porter
<nap@*****.physics.swin.oz.au> writes:
>NAP> It works like a flying ball of plastic explosive, when it hits it
>NAP> target is 'Squashes' onto it and then detonates. Rather than
>NAP> penatrating the armour though it throws off an internal 'scab' of
>NAP> armour with the vehicle, which then turns whatevers inside into spare
>NAP> parts.
>
>The term is ``spalling.''

This is indeed an ugly effect. The detonation of the HESH round on the
armor, and the subsequent wave of vibrations that is sent through the
armor, turns the resulting armor fragments (spall) into the round's true
method of killing inside the vehicle.

--
Legion
Students for War & Oppression
@@@@ @ @ @@@@ Counter productive, highly destructive!
@ @ @@ @ @ @ ---
@@@@ @ @@ @ @ @ Celebrating the occurences of War &
@ @ @@ @ @ @ Oppression since the dawn of time
@@@@ @@@@ @@@@ -- Even the planets were born in turmoil... --

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