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Message no. 1
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Ammo in SR
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 17:11:34 +0100
The guns in SR never say what Calibre they are
(except ghosts Uzi's in the story in sr1 are 9mm)
so working out what their balistics would be like is tricky

A 115grain 9mm round has approx 100j and dumps approx 60 of
those joules in the body and exits the other side.
So is it 6L? light pistol.?
But the same bullet a fraction of an inch higher in the body may
hit bone, and stop dead,fracturing the bone and transfering all
its energy.
Same with a hit to a vital location (Head, heart) where the
bullets high penetration causes massive damage

Thats ballistics, not skill on the shooters part.and thats not a
6L injury either.

Rapid fire with guns has to be either single shots, burst or
auto.
You can only fire two single shots a round, no matter is you're
using a .22 heavy barrel target pistol or a .454 cascul .
They both recoil to different extents, but they still fire the
same rate in single shots.
WHY?
If you give holdouts 3 shots/ simple action, lights 2 and heavys
1, the possibilitys of light weapons open up
(Mossad claim 100% kills with .22short, a 4L holdout round)

Now gun battles start to eat ammo, and you see why light pistols
have such big clips.
(4 actions/round, 2 simple actions each, light pistol allows a
fast character to fire 16 shots)

CHOPPER
John Woo rulemaker
Message no. 2
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ammo in SR
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 20:39:02 -0400
Just remember one very important fact: Shadowrun combat is a cinematic
abstraction, not an accurate simulation of reality. If that's what you
want, go play something like TimeLords or WarpWorld.

Also, the guys at FASA know practically nothing about firearms.

So bearing that in mind...

>>>>> "J" == J W Thomas <cm5323@***.AC.UK> writes:

J> A 115grain 9mm round has approx 100j and dumps approx 60 of
J> those joules in the body and exits the other side.
J> So is it 6L? light pistol.?

Kinda low, yeah for a "real" weapon; should be 6M.

J> But the same bullet a fraction of an inch higher in the body may
J> hit bone, and stop dead,fracturing the bone and transfering all
J> its energy.

Considered either a very good shot (lots of successes with the shooter) or
really bad luck on the part of the victim (a botched resistance test). The
latter isn't hard considering the average human has a Body of 3.

J> Same with a hit to a vital location (Head, heart) where the
J> bullets high penetration causes massive damage

Shadowrun doesn't use hit locations per se, but you can take an aimed shot
and jack the damage category up by a level.

J> Thats ballistics, not skill on the shooters part.and thats not a
J> 6L injury either.

Yeah, but like I said, Shadowrun is a /cinematic/ game, not a realistic one.

J> Rapid fire with guns has to be either single shots, burst or
J> auto.

I'd hardly call single shots "rapid fire." :)

J> You can only fire two single shots a round, no matter is you're
J> using a .22 heavy barrel target pistol or a .454 cascul.
J> They both recoil to different extents, but they still fire the
J> same rate in single shots.
J> WHY?

To keep the game mechanics simple and quick to play.

J> If you give holdouts 3 shots/ simple action, lights 2 and heavys
J> 1, the possibilitys of light weapons open up
J> (Mossad claim 100% kills with .22short, a 4L holdout round)

I doubt you mean .22 short, but I would definitely agree with .22 LR at
close range. At over 10 feet or so the .22 short will bounce off of an
adult man's skull.

Ever see a Beretta Olympic in action? You can put out someone's eye at over
25 feet. The .22 LR is the second most accurate round out there today,
after the .50 Browning, and a lot easier to obtain :).

J> Now gun battles start to eat ammo, and you see why light pistols
J> have such big clips.

Actually, its because the smaller the ammunition the more you can fit in a
given volume.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "...and I didn't even need pants!"
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | --Dilbert [Scott Adams]
Message no. 3
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ammo in SR
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 12:39:30 +1000
CHOPPER writes:

> The guns in SR never say what Calibre they are
> (except ghosts Uzi's in the story in sr1 are 9mm)

Arent they only deipcted on the front as uzis, and described in the text as
ingrams?

> Rapid fire with guns has to be either single shots, burst or> auto.

On the subject of autofire, isnt the idea of full auto to fill the air with
as much ammo as possible so as to _increase_ the chance of any one single
round hitting the target? resulting in about the same damage, but with more
chance of it occurring (or if you fire enough, more chance of hitting, and
more chance of doing more damage as there are sufficient rounds to hit
multiple times). In SR, using full auto _decreases_ the chance to
hit a target, but increses the damage. The damage increase I can see, but
the muchly reduced chance of hitting I cannot.

Damion

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