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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: Ammo Myths (was: apds)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:07:51 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, sean jamieson wrote:

> the black talon is a black closed talon shaped bullet that when fired is
> turned into a open talon shaped (dimond tipped) drillbit. when it hits
> it turns all armor into ground beef and the flesh underneath, don't ask.
> it lodges into the body and causes even more damage by moving and
> cutting the insides with the flow of blood.

No. Put simply, a black talon is simply a slightly different
twist on a standard hollow-point round. In addition to having a hollow
nose, the black talon's nose has a set of notches along the edge of the
hollow. These are present basically to make it easier for the round to
deform on impact (note I said on *impact*, not on firing). In other
words, they (like every other form of hollow-point ammunition) make it
easier to transfer energy to the target. They do not "drill" through
armor, and in fact have worse armor penetration characteristics than
standard ammunition due to their ease of deformation on impact.
They are still commercially available in the US (although under a
different name, which escapes me at present), as are a number of similar
rounds (like the "Golden Eagle" which is basically the same but with a
perforated half-jacket). The reason they were labeled "cop killers" and
banned from production was basically because by and large, the American
public knows precisely two things about ammunition: "jack" and "shit".

Marc (who had a box of Black Talons but sold them to a sucker who
insisted they we're on some "banned" list or other)
Message no. 2
From: One Ronin ronin@*******.com
Subject: Ammo Myths (was: apds)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 13:30:30 PST
<snip definition of black-talon ammunition>


>The reason they were labeled "cop killers" and
>banned from production was basically because by and large, the American
>public knows precisely two things about ammunition: "jack" and
"shit".
>
>Marc (who had a box of Black Talons but sold them to a sucker who
>insisted they we're on some "banned" list or other)

I totally agree with you. Another fine example is Glaser rounds. This
type of amuunition is quite lethal, and gurantees 100% energy
transferance into the target. Are they illegal? Hello no. You can
find them at just about any Gun & Knife show, or shop that sells
pistols. I questioned a police officer about Glaser rounds and his
comment was to the effect of: We want civilians to use Glasers. If used
for home protection, there is minimal chance of overpenetration....very
important in crowded urban areas. Second, these rounds cannot penetrate
all body armors worn by law enforcement personnel.
I've run into several people who have claimed (falsely) that these
rounds are super illegal and very hard to find. Wrong. People, (and
this goes back to my post on Chinese/Japanese confusion) do yourself a
favor and get as much info as possible from those knowledgable in the
field before you comment on something you know little about. This list
is the perfect tool to gather such info. Don't trust what you hear in
movies, TV, and your bud down the street that has a subscription to Guns
N Ammo.

"I hunt, therefore I am."

-Ronin
ICQ #: 11373195


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Thwap!