| From: | s c rose <scrose@****.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Ammo, Realism and psyical science |
| Date: | Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:04:44 -0600 |
Glad to be of help...
Trinity
------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca
"Life is a blur"
> thanks All.
>
> _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ levbar@******.org
> _/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ -Who is my saviour now..
> _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/
> _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/
> _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/
>
> _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/
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> _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
> _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/
> _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
> _/_/_/
> _/ -Levi Barczy
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:23:30 -0700
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:10:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Belt fed ammo and calibers
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James Lindsay wrote:
>
> On Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:39:49 -0600, s c rose wrote:
>
> > I just see it as a less than nessary detail. If such rules where
> > included into the
> > shadowrun universe. I would not use them and stay with the fast and easy
> > damage code
> > based rounds.
>
> Agreed. Shadowrun just wouldn't be the same if its current "ambiguity"
> were messed with. IOW, it just wouldn't feel like Shadowrun anymore if you
> were to begin introducing harder, more realistic weapon statistics. Fans
> would be asking "Wha' happened to ma game?"
hehehehe is all I can say on that one.
> > > Such a market would still be around in 2058. Just think of what would
> > > happen if only one calibre of light pistol ammunition (6L) was available in
> > > 2058. A smart corporation would spot an opportunity for profit by
> > > listening to their customers and developing a slightly more powerful
> > > cartridge-- perhaps a 7L.
> >
> > Prehaps but I happen to think the cost of production and demands of
> > military and/or para military
> > sales would make the number of rounds and calibers decrease. If you wish
> > to include calibers in your house rules feel free to do so. However one
> > person in the game I'm involved in knows next to nothing about arms and
> > ammo and he plays a street sammie. He doesn't need to know that what the
> > diffences between .45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP), .40 S&W or what is
> > diffent about .38special .38P+ the assorted magnums .357 .41 and .44
> > etc.
>
> Agreed, although I see nothing wrong with introducing weapons that use
> damage codes besides 6L, 9M, 6M/7M, etc. (each of which could cover
> numerous actual calibres). For example, why not a new classification of
> pistol-- the "medium pistol"-- that uses the same ammo used in current SR
> SMGs (6M/7M). This only makes sense, since 6L doesn't really cover
> calibres like the 9mmP or .45 ACP-- which aren't considered heavy pistol
> cartridges and are available in modern day SMGs (hell, a few SMGs have even
> been chambered for the powerful 10mm cartridge-- a definitive heavy pistol
> cartridge).
I have no problem with the introduction of new weapons with differing
damage codes but
a player really doesn't need to know the what makes a 7.62x39 (This a
classic modern assult rifle round)
that several weapons use, the SKS and AK47 being the most common but
several others as well
including an AR variant.
> I'm not really asking for accurate weapon statistics for Shadowrun.
> Alternatives other than 6L light pistols and 9M heavy pistols would be nice
> so that there are a few more choices available. Of course, light pistols
> have been unofficially up'd to 6M/7M by many referees as a popular house
> rule to make these weapons a bit more realistic, but it isn't an *official*
> Shadowrun ruling-- yet.
>
>
>
> Games that are more realistic (which attempt to include information to
> teach readers a bit more about how automobiles and firearms really work in
> Real Life) can provide advantages both in and *outside* the game. An
> interest in firearms is an extremely serious thing to many people and to
> portray them inaccurately in a RPG or film can be counterproductive. With
> your own admitted experience with firearms I am sure you will agree that
> there are certain roleplaying and movies that are way off target when it
> comes to modeling Real Life (anyone up for a little John Woo?).
I'll agree to a limited extent on this one. If someone wants to learn
about firearms, I'm more than willing
not only to explain how they work and why but also give shooting
lessons. Which I have done at assorted and sundry times actually. Movies
are for being entertained RPG's are games and also for entraining people
and using the imagination. Who doesn't want to be able to be a hero, I
never was in real life I was just a grunt and never did anything
exciting a few missions that where other than training. None of the
missions I was one made the headlines. The bronze star I got and a
dollar will get me a cup of coffee. Something that happened ten years
ago that really no one cares about anymore...
> This is not to say that RPGs should be burdened down with rule upon rule
> and stat upon stat to ensure that it is as realistic as possible. The
> trick is to do so without slowing down the game mechanics too much (and
> Shadowrun combat is already quite s-l-o-w). Everyone has their own opinion
> as to where this line should be drawn. If I were to design a RPG from
> scratch I'd probably stick with a good core set of rules similar to GURPS
> or CORPS (perhaps simplifying them a bit). I would then add sidebars
> containing colourful text explaining how, for example, flash suppressor and
> silencers "worked" in Real Life. A brief, accurate description would be
> included, along with optional game rules for those referees interested in
> adding such realism to their games. Whether or not such rules were used,
> they could still be used to educate players as to how things work in Real
> Life. Come to think about it, this pretty much describes CORPS :)
Yeah those are both pretty decent systems as the core rules are simple
and stright forward
I happen to like GURPS
> I play Traveller, a science fiction RPG nearly twenty years old. The game
> has grown quite a bit since its first incarnation but it has always
> remained a "hard science" RPG (meaning that very little "science
fantasy"
> is used in order to maintain a certain amount of-- albeit futuristic--
> realism). I am not only entertained by Traveller, I also learn from it as
> well-- because many of the rules are heavily rooted in Real Life physics.
> And, IMO, the game does not suffer because of this (players are free to
> ignore many of the rules if they prefer a more "Space Opera" feel). Since
> Shadowrun is nearly ten years old now, moving the game from "cinematic" to
> "more realistic" would be a mistake at this point (IMHO).
>
> James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
> "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";
>
> Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:11:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Crash of 29
In-Reply-To: <J8ZUpEAqs9s0EwaN@*******.demon.co.uk>
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On 7 Jan 98 at 19:44, Avenger wrote:
> My players have a very simple philosophy. If you carry a clipboard
> and wear a name tag, you _look_ official, and nobody will question
> you - until you get to really sensitive areas.
>
> Looking at the number of people who walk into Hospitals, Police
> Stations, Companies and other such areas, and promtply walk out with
> a few interesting items in their deep pockets/toolboxes, I can
> believe it.
It's a fact. I work in a building that you have to use swipe cards to
get in/out, or have to be buzzed in by the receptionist. We recently
had some remodeling, and there were painters, wallpaperers,
electricians, etc. all roaming the halls. Apparantly, one day the
receptionist buzzed in a guy because he was dressed in coveralls. She
thought he was a workman. He managed to make off with two laptops.
It can happen, folks.
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
Actual Newspaper Headline #32
Cold Wave Linked to Temperatures
Check out my webpage for the others!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:36:14 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Spurs & Bone Lacing.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980107141739.12866C-100000@*******.com>
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> One of my players and I were discussing something awhile back and
> I thought I would throw it up here for further discussion to see what you
> all thought.
Want some alcazelter?
> All forms of bone lacing when used in unarmed combat affect the
> damage resistance target number [plastic +1, Aluminum +2, Titanium +3].
Power level by +1, 2, 3, IIRC. Same thing almost.
> It can be reasoned that this is because of the additional weight behind
> the attack from the bone lacing.
I have always assumed it is because someone with bone lacing has both
harder bones and doesn't need to worry about breaking or fracturing
bones when hitting. (The advantage of hard - to break bones should
give a significant advantage against falling damage, incidentally.
(But then, +2 body and +1 impact armor is significant.).
> He was wondering if he could get that
> bonus when using spurs in combination with the bone lacing because of the
> extra weight behind the strike.
If it was extra weight only, he would benefit as much from wearing
heavy manacles. I don't think any GM would allow that without also
hurting his TN's.
If it is because of fist/foot hardness and fracturing safety, the
effect on spurs would be minimal.
For the rest of your questions/thoughts I assume it increases damage
through weight.
> I thought about this for awhile and reasoned that it would be
> possible only if it was a piercing attack, one that was declared otherwise
> I would rule that all other spur attacks would be considered slash
> attacks.
Weight increases the power of slashes as well, I'd think. If a heavy
blade is swung at someone, it cuts deeper than a light one, given
that they have the same edge.
(Slashing is a fairly ineffective attack, since it usually will cut a
0.5-1 inch gash in someone, which is not enough to kill, or kill
quickly, and I would consider piercing attacks the default, unless
the character is overly inspired by X-Men/Wolverine.).
>
> If said character did declare he was attempting to pierce his
> opponent, thereby putting the weight of his arm behind the strike, he
> would get the additional bonus to the damage resistance target number
> stated above and this would count as physical damage. However, he would
> have to have room for the maneuver and if he used it too often then his
> opponent would begin to get bonuses to block the attack and counter attack
> as the opponent would see a pattern developing.
Um, I'd not worry about using such a rule, if I were you. If
his opponent survives a lot of unarmed attacks (3-4+) our spurred
friend is probably going to loose anyway and the rule wouldn't really
be necessary. If the oponent doesn't survive the 3-4 attacks it isn't
very interesting either.
I'd say do one of three things -
Let bone lacing affect spur damage, no penalties.
Let bone lacing affect spur damage, but halve the rating.
Let bone lacing NOT affect spur damage.
No need for any fancy rules.
BTW what would be the damage modifiers for a cyberzombie (weighing
2-3 times more than a human and able to be as fast or faster) using
spurs if weight was the criteria?
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:25:49 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Haley's Comet
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In a message dated 98-01-07 12:50:27 EST, wolfstar@****.com writes:
>
> Hey, I dunno, about you guys, but I was here the last time Halley's came
> through, and I'll be 85 the next time she comes. I plan on being around
> for it, how about you?
>
Somehow, I think I'm going to be a bit older than that...let me
think...senility setting in early you know...32 in 2000....92 in 60...I don't
know if I will be or not...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:33:44 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
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In a message dated 98-01-07 13:26:37 EST, JonSzeto@***.COM writes:
> There is NO cyberware equivalent of Structural Agility: never. Installing
> MBW
> in a person means nada: MBW is a control system, not a structural change.
> The
> equivalent of Structural Agility is genetic engineering, rebuilding the
body
> from the chromosomes up.
>
> -- Jon
Wow, talk about needing a rest...Jon, relax. I think the topic of the thread
has gotten lost in the comparisons. I know what is said, as to your opinions
on "hooking up MBW to someone with a VCR", but my question comes back as to
"why not?"
MBW is, as we've perceived it here, a theoretically mind you, more advanced
form of neurosynaptic control mechanism. Sadly, to much of MBW appears to be
relying on Willpower and Computer Interface to directly control some of the
autonomic muscles. Though placing an MBW into a person with MBW would create
problems, you're own rules here, what about placing a control interface
allowing someone with the "Walker" skill to utilize the MBW in someone else to
do things.
As for systems not talking to each other, in a world of translator programs
and skillwires, SR is more than capable of handling something that would
"translate" VCR signals into something that a MBW would comprehend, IMHO (and
remaining humble on this I want to point out). If a decker can have a
"Protocol Emulator" to let them have -some- control/interaction with Rigged
systems, then the emulations abilities are as yet fully unexplored in SR
mechanics.
And that is where I think we are coming down to again, yet again even. Game
Mechanics and Game Balance. We've tinkered with it, the idea of merging MBW
and VCR. It's -really- cool, but VASTLY too powerful, even by our standards.
But it could be one of the choices of future development.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:47:19 +1100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff <geoffwa@***********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Spurs & Bone Lacing.
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<snip>
>I have always assumed it is because someone with bone lacing has both
>harder bones and doesn't need to worry about breaking or fracturing
>bones when hitting. (The advantage of hard - to break bones should
>give a significant advantage against falling damage, incidentally.
>(But then, +2 body and +1 impact armor is significant.).
Aren't bones stronger than titanium anyway? If you sprint, for every step
you take, 5 times your own body weight is forced on to your leg bones. Bones
are much also lighter.
Geoff
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:41:49 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Big 8 (Old Terminology)
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In a message dated 98-01-07 15:17:45 EST, levbar@*******.BERGEN.ORG writes:
> What are the eight companies in the Big 8?
> These are the companies I know about:
Superisingly, the "Big 8" are now the "Neolithic 9"....
> Ares HQ is in Detroit; run by Damien Knight
More or less correct, but Damien is having some power struggles...
> Aztechnology HQ in Aztlan; runs the country
Or is vice-versa????
> Fuchi HQ in Japan; make really good decks
Lord and Master's of Communication Satellites...Matrix Hardware...
> Mitsuhama HQ in Japan; just another nasticorp (?)
And having the second longest list of rumors abounding...
> Renraku HQ in Japan; made Arcology; makes cyberware
And now has a VERY knowledgeable immortal elf working on some projects for
them in exchange for massive resources...
> Saeder Krupps HQ in Germany; run by Lafwyr the dragon
It's "Lofwyr", get it right mortal tidbit...(grin)...
> What are the other two? Are they the Atlantean Foundation and Draco.
> Foundation?
Yes and no...Shiawase, the Atomic Masters (from the Seattle POV at least) are
the people with the darkest of the secrets, at least IMHO. If you want darker
secrets for a corporation, I am uncertain how far into Lofwyr's closet you'd
have to dig. If you want darker secrets about those -behind- the
corporations, well, let's just say that Aztlan/Aztechnology is lost in
Oscurity...(ewg)...
Yamatetsu is the last of the original "Big 8"...though they are late
entry...Bio-organics is their big thing I think, though don't quote me on
that...they also, at least in North America, have a fairly positive rep,
probably right behind Ares and Renraku...
Now, why did I say the "Neolithic 9"? Because you're questioning of the
"Draco Foundation" is probably correct. The Will has no doubt set the DF into
a position that anyone and everyone is still trying to grasp and/or catch up
with. The Atlantean Foundation is probably a Second or Third stage (teer?
tir? tear?) company by comparison, at least using the Corporate Shadowfiles as
a source...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:44:11 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Big 8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-01-07 16:14:00 EST, decker@****.FSU.EDU writes:
> > Yamatetsu (HQ in Japan), creators of cyberware; and;
> > Shiawase (HQ in Japan).
> >
> > >
> Ouch. He's correct, my earlier post had gaetronics not Shiawase.
> I believe Gaetronics is a minor corp that handles utilities and
> such to various cities etc.
>
Gaiatronics is a subsidiary of Shiawase Lehlan, you had the right company,
just not high enough in the structure...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:41:32 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Otakus
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Matrix Phantom wrote:
>
> Well, one major thing ya gotta take into account is how the Otaku player
> thinks of the matrix. In the case of taking over cyberware, you have to
> remember the bond between the character and the matrix, and all that
> stuff the with the Deep Resonance. I would just say it doesn't work, as
> the cyberware isn't really reated to the matrix, it's tech, but the
> Otaku usually don't think of the matrix as tech. Most think of it as a
> living being....
This is intersting as I've never been in a game in which the house rules
allowed this type of character
I don't know but they seem very powerful and might upset the balance of
the game...
Regards
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:46:23 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Living Walker Drones
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Lehlan Decker wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 03:06:38PM -0600, Tony Rabiola wrote:
> > On 01/05/98 13:52:47 you wrote:
> > >
> > >JonSzeto wrote:
> > >/
> > >/ around relative to their position with the torso, rerouting the
circulatory
> > >/ flow of blood, and so on). So the conceptual equivalent of Structural
Agility
> > >/ in a flesh-and-blood character would be a genetically-engineered automaton
> > >/ optimized for agility.
> > >/
> > >/ IMO.
> > >
> > >In other words, a jackrabbit :)
> > >
> > Can you say "Kid Stealth"?
> >
> Heh....I'd actually love to see the stats on him.
> He had to have very little essence left, and high grade stuff.
As would everyone Kid Stealth is the closest you can get to being
totally cyber without becoming a cyberzombie. He probally even had a
really high body index too as it seems like something was mentioned
about Vat grown muscle...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:04:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Ammo, Realism and psyical science
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James Lindsay wrote:
>
<Snip>
I decided to change the topic of this post even if it is respone to one
post from you
> I play Traveller, a science fiction RPG nearly twenty years old. The game
I know the game well have played It for years have the little digest
sized books
even book I even use them to enhance the newer 'mega travel' rules. Yes
it does and the system is very stright it started as 3 books the books
4-7 expanded the basic system and character types I still run a traveler
campaign matter of fact, and use the basic rules.
> ignore many of the rules if they prefer a more "Space Opera" feel). Since
> Shadowrun is nearly ten years old now, moving the game from "cinematic" to
> "more realistic" would be a mistake at this point (IMHO).
This I agree with as I've been playing shawdow run from the first
version. Matter it took a little getting used to the new system when it
came out...
Regards
