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Message no. 1
From: ANGLISS@****.PSU.EDU
Subject: Ancient Dwarves anyone?
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 14:39:36 -0500
I just have a question, and it sorta relates to the Ancient Elves thing going
on here right now.

The SRII rulebook says that metabolic studies on Dwarves are inconclusive, as
they are for Elves, leading to the possibility that they may live for several
hundred years, like Elves.

Isn't it possible that this means that we may have "ancient" dwarves too?

If not, why not?

Brian
Message no. 2
From: John Fox <johnf@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ancient Dwarves anyone?
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 14:12:13 -0600
On Mon, 1 Nov 1993 ANGLISS@****.PSU.EDU wrote:

> I just have a question, and it sorta relates to the Ancient Elves thing going
> on here right now.
>
> The SRII rulebook says that metabolic studies on Dwarves are inconclusive, as
> they are for Elves, leading to the possibility that they may live for several
> hundred years, like Elves.
>
> Isn't it possible that this means that we may have "ancient" dwarves too?
>
> If not, why not?

I guess it's possible, but remember that FASA seems only interested in
detailing elves and humans. Here is a chart that lists SR races inorder of
most interest to FASA authors. This is my opinion of course.

Humans - This is a given.

Elves - They live for 400 years, look pretty, and make us happy.
Most cities have separate elven communities.

Orcs - They have their own civil rights groups and polliclubs. They also
have their own cuisine and neighborhoods.

Trolls - Just big, bad orcs.

Dragons - Ancient bad guys.

Dwarves - What dwarves?

Spirits - Players (a type of free spirit) can be interesting.

Sasquatch - They make funny noises and are real cute.

Everything else - Mostly intelligent paranimals.

So you see, Dwarves are really down on the totem pole.

John Fox
johnf@*****.edu
Message no. 3
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ancient Dwarves anyone?
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 20:38:35 GMT
>Orcs - They have their own civil rights groups and polliclubs. They also
>have their own cuisine and neighborhoods.

Why do they have their own cuisine? Historically, separate preparation
methods have apeared based on geographical separation, availability of certain
foods, and cultural differences (for instance, kosher food and strictures
against pork). Orcs, having sprung directly from humanity wherever humans
may be, regardless of culture, have nothing disctinguishing them as such,
unless it's based on "How to cook on 3 sewer rats a day" based on their
economic dislocation.

>Trolls - Just big, bad orcs.

Given that, on average, trolls are less intelligent than the orcs, perhaps
the trouble is that the orcs typically do the speaking for these two down-
trodden races and many perceive a general movement to be orcs-only.

Perhaps the founders of the Orc Rights Committee "gave up" on their larger
brethren and decided to fight solely for their own purpose. Rather exclusionary,
I believe, and an act more than a few Trolls might take exception two. I
hear the seeds of an adventure being planned. . .

>Dwarves - What dwarves?

Yes, dwarves are usually relegated to comic relief. Even the Dwarf Mercenary
is a caricature of absurdity.

>So you see, Dwarves are really down on the totem pole.

By your count, yes. What have you done in your campaign to alleviate this?
(Not a personal invective; merely a query as to whether or not you find this
general treatment of Dwarves from official channels bad enough to warrant
your own attention to the matter.)


J Roberson
"A Dream to some. . .a NIGHTMARE to OTHERS!"
-Merlin, "Excalibur"
Message no. 4
From: John Fox <johnf@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ancient Dwarves anyone?
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 23:00:51 -0600
> Why do they have their own cuisine? Historically, separate
> preparation methods have apeared based on geographical separation,
> availability of certain foods, and cultural differences (for instance,
> kosher food and strictures against pork). Orcs, having sprung directly
> from humanity wherever humans may be, regardless of culture, have
> nothing disctinguishing them as such, unless it's based on "How to cook
> on 3 sewer rats a day" based on their economic dislocation.

I don't know whether you're critiquing my post or FASA. I agree with all
your points. I was just referencing the pictures, adds, and descriptions
of orc restuarants in the London and Seattle books.

> >So you see, Dwarves are really down on the totem pole.
>
> By your count, yes. What have you done in your campaign to alleviate
> this? (Not a personal invective; merely a query as to whether or not you
> find this general treatment of Dwarves from official channels bad enough
> to warrant your own attention to the matter.)

Nothing, although I was thinking of making one of the corps owned by
dwarves. Shiawse seems most likely, since all the Shiawse family could be
dwarves. You did get me thinking. I think Denver might be a nice city to
have high rates of Dwarves living there. It's in the mountains, similar to
the forests for the elves in Tir Tairngire. Any comments?

John Fox
johnf@*****.edu
Message no. 5
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ancient Dwarves anyone?
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 11:08:59 GMT
>I don't know whether you're critiquing my post or FASA. I agree with all

FASA, most certainly, since they seem to be the source of the problem.

>Nothing, although I was thinking of making one of the corps owned by
>dwarves. Shiawse seems most likely, since all the Shiawse family could be
>dwarves. You did get me thinking. I think Denver might be a nice city to
>have high rates of Dwarves living there. It's in the mountains, similar to
>the forests for the elves in Tir Tairngire. Any comments?

I don't know much about Shiawase, but I always thought they were either
Japanese, Amerind, or Elven.

We've got a contradiction here. On the one hand there are various statements
to the effect that the "fantasy stereotypes" don't apply to the real Elves
& Dwarves, yet the Tir Elves act exactly like your stereotypical Mysterious
Elven Nation. I for one don't see why the Elves wanted/needed a homeland, and
don't see why the Swarves would have one either.


J Roberson

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