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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: And now, for my NEXT trick.....Education in 206x! (LONG!)
Date: Mon Jun 11 19:50:01 2001
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In a message dated 6/11/01 3:37:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rtomasso@*******.com writes:


There is already a trend for pulling kids out of public schools, which
is only gonna accelerate. There'll be less federal involvement until
everything goes back to the states, and we may even see a total local/
privatized system of primary education. Certainly in the CAS, probably
to a lesser extent in the UCAS and CFS.
------

(Back to oldtime AOL 6, so quoting's dead again, folks) Perhaps.
However, and this is something a lot of people forget. In...every state
constitution, there's a line like this:

SECTION IV
1. The Legislature shall provide for the maintenance and support of a
thorough and efficient system of free public schools for the instruction of
all the children in the State between the ages of five and eighteen years.
2. The fund for the support of free public schools, and all money,
stock and other property, which may hereafter be appropriated for that
purpose, or received into the treasury under the provisions of any law
heretofore passed to augment the said fund, shall be securely invested, and
remain a perpetual fund; and the income thereof, except so much as it may be
judged expedient to apply to an increase of the capital, shall be annually
appropriated to the support of free public schools, and for the equal benefit
of all the people of the State; and it shall not be competent, except as
hereinafter provided, for the Legislature to borrow, appropriate or use the
said fund or any part thereof for any other purpose, under any pretense
whatever. The bonds of any school district of this State, issued according to
law, shall be proper and secure investments for the said fund and, in
addition, said fund, including the income therefrom and any other moneys duly
appropriated to the support of free public schools may be used in such manner
as the Legislature may provide by law to secure the payment of the principal
of or interest on bonds or notes issued for school purposes by counties,
municipalities or school districts or for the payment or purchase of any such
bonds or notes or any claims for interest thereon. Article VIII, Section IV,
paragraph 2 amended effective December 4, 1958.
3. The Legislature may, within reasonable limitations as to distance
to be prescribed, provide for the transportation of children within the ages
of five to eighteen years inclusive to and from any school.

(That's NJ Constitution, Article VIII, Section IV)

Every, and I mean *every* state in the US has that. I doubt it would
change. Around here, it's become a big issue. What does public school mean?
Well, here's one definition, written by me, based off conversations with
school officials, a state senator who happens to chair the Education
committee there, and others:
1. It has to be funded by the public. Primarily, this is, in NJ,
through property taxes, though that might change.
2. The executive body (ie, the school board) has to be elected by the
public.
3. Corps can't run schools, except for charter schools (which don't
count as public schools).
4. Except for unique situations such as special education, the schools
must have their administrative control placed in a local or, in special
cases, county school board (county board is for things like vocational
schools). Special education gets monitored by the state directly when not run
by the local schools.

Thus, Rich....I doubt you'll see such a flight, which in any case is
exaggerated hugely. Most parents, and most kids, will stick with the public
schools.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
6/11/01 3:37:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>rtomasso@*******.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>There is already a trend for pulling kids out of public schools, which
<BR>is only gonna accelerate. There'll be less federal involvement until
<BR>everything goes back to the states, and we may even see a total local/
<BR>privatized system of primary education. Certainly in the CAS, probably
<BR>to a lesser extent in the UCAS and CFS.
<BR>------
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(Back to oldtime
AOL 6, so quoting's dead again, folks) Perhaps.
<BR>However, and this is something a lot of people forget. In...every state
<BR>constitution, there's a line like this:
<BR>
<BR>SECTION IV
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1. The Legislature
shall provide for the maintenance and support of a
<BR>thorough and efficient system of free public schools for the instruction of
<BR>all the children in the State between the ages of five and eighteen years.
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2. The fund for the
support of free public schools, and all money,
<BR>stock and other property, which may hereafter be appropriated for that
<BR>purpose, or received into the treasury under the provisions of any law
<BR>heretofore passed to augment the said fund, shall be securely invested, and
<BR>remain a perpetual fund; and the income thereof, except so much as it may be
<BR>judged expedient to apply to an increase of the capital, shall be annually
<BR>appropriated to the support of free public schools, and for the equal benefit
<BR>of all the people of the State; and it shall not be competent, except as
<BR>hereinafter provided, for the Legislature to borrow, appropriate or use the
<BR>said fund or any part thereof for any other purpose, under any pretense
<BR>whatever. The bonds of any school district of this State, issued according to
<BR>law, shall be proper and secure investments for the said fund and, in
<BR>addition, said fund, including the income therefrom and any other moneys duly
<BR>appropriated to the support of free public schools may be used in such manner
<BR>as the Legislature may provide by law to secure the payment of the principal
<BR>of or interest on bonds or notes issued for school purposes by counties,
<BR>municipalities or school districts or for the payment or purchase of any such
<BR>bonds or notes or any claims for interest thereon. Article VIII, Section IV,
<BR>paragraph 2 amended effective December 4, 1958.
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3. The Legislature
may, within reasonable limitations as to distance
<BR>to be prescribed, provide for the transportation of children within the ages
<BR>of five to eighteen years inclusive to and from any school.
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(That's NJ
Constitution, Article VIII, Section IV)
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Every, and I mean
*every* state in the US has that. I doubt it would
<BR>change. Around here, it's become a big issue. What does public school mean?
<BR>Well, here's one definition, written by me, based off conversations with
<BR>school officials, a state senator who happens to chair the Education
<BR>committee there, and others:
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1. It has to be
funded by the public. Primarily, this is, in NJ,
<BR>through property taxes, though that might change.
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2. The executive
body (ie, the school board) has to be elected by the
<BR>public.
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3. Corps can't run
schools, except for charter schools (which don't
<BR>count as public schools).
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4. Except for
unique situations such as special education, the schools
<BR>must have their administrative control placed in a local or, in special
<BR>cases, county school board (county board is for things like vocational
<BR>schools). Special education gets monitored by the state directly when not run
<BR>by the local schools.
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thus, Rich....I
doubt you'll see such a flight, which in any case is
<BR>exaggerated hugely. Most parents, and most kids, will stick with the public
<BR>schools.</FONT></HTML>

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: And now, for my NEXT trick.....Education in 206x! (LONG!)
Date: Mon Jun 11 23:10:02 2001
> Thus, Rich....I doubt you'll see such a flight, which in any case is
> exaggerated hugely. Most parents, and most kids, will stick with the
> public schools.

Just a tidbit of info, here. Canada's finance minister has just
(proposed? introduced? I forget) legislation that would give tax breaks to
parents who send their kids to private school. I read an editorial
decrying that as a move to encourage public-to-private migration so the
govt won't have to put as much money into schools, which may result in more
social stratification as those who can't afford private school end up
getting sent to lower-quality public schools.

Now, I'm not endorsing any side of this (I don't know the facts, really),
but you could make an argument that the govt would love to see as many
private schools as possible so they wouldn't HAVE to fund a school for
every tot under eighteen.

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: And now, for my NEXT trick.....Education in 206x! (LONG!)
Date: Mon Jun 11 23:25:01 2001
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In a message dated 6/11/01 11:17:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
l3oondocker@*****.com writes:


Now, I'm not endorsing any side of this (I don't know the facts, really),
but you could make an argument that the govt would love to see as many
private schools as possible so they wouldn't HAVE to fund a school for
every tot under eighteen.
----------

At the same time though, you could argue equallly well, if not better,
that that would be something a government (outside of the weird canucks:P)
wouldn't do. Why? Because it doesn't *trust* private schools not to do
horrible things to their kids under false pretenses. Also, I'm speaking of
education in UCAS, which seems to not have much of a Canadian influence. In
the Northeast, which makes up a big part of the UCAS, home rule means that
any government who gave the corps responsibility for schools would be thrown
out on its ass; After all, in Jersey at least, schools and local
infrastructure (including police, etc) are the primary responsibility of
towns. They give up schools, or most of that, they give up their reason to
exist.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
6/11/01 11:17:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>l3oondocker@*****.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Now, I'm not endorsing any side of this (I don't know the facts, really),
<BR>but you could make an argument that the govt would love to see as many
<BR>private schools as possible so they wouldn't HAVE to fund a school for
<BR>every tot under eighteen.
<BR>----------
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;At the same time
though, you could argue equallly well, if not better,
<BR>that that would be something a government (outside of the weird canucks:P)
<BR>wouldn't do. Why? Because it doesn't *trust* private schools not to do
<BR>horrible things to their kids under false pretenses. Also, I'm speaking of
<BR>education in UCAS, which seems to not have much of a Canadian influence. In
&nbsp;
<BR>the Northeast, which makes up a big part of the UCAS, home rule means that
<BR>any government who gave the corps responsibility for schools would be thrown
<BR>out on its ass; After all, in Jersey at least, schools and local
<BR>infrastructure (including police, etc) are the primary responsibility of
<BR>towns. They give up schools, or most of that, they give up their reason to
<BR>exist.</FONT></HTML>

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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: And now, for my NEXT trick.....Education in 206x! (LONG!)
Date: Tue Jun 12 12:00:01 2001
> At the same time though, you could argue equallly well, if not
> better,
> that that would be something a government (outside of the weird
> canucks:P)

lol! :)

> wouldn't do. Why? Because it doesn't *trust* private schools not to do
> horrible things to their kids under false pretenses. Also, I'm speaking
> of education in UCAS, which seems to not have much of a Canadian
influence.

Where'd you get _that_ idea? Just because FASA included NOTHING Canadian
in their version of the UCAS? Just because it's probably an extremely
realistic viewpoint? ;)

> In the Northeast, which makes up a big part of the UCAS, home rule means
> that
> any government who gave the corps responsibility for schools would be
> thrown
> out on its ass; After all, in Jersey at least, schools and local
> infrastructure (including police, etc) are the primary responsibility of
> towns. They give up schools, or most of that, they give up their reason
> to exist.

I dunno, DP. First off, if the govt "doesn't trust private schools not
to do horrible things to their kids under false pretenses," why the heck
are there private schools now? What's gonna change? Even private schools
have to obey regulations on what they do, I think (wouldn't make a lot of
legal sense otherwise), and that's not going to change.

Even if you're talking corp-run schools, your argument hinges on the
assumption that everyday UCASers think that Corps Are Bad. Well, I just
don't think that's so. The kind of rampant corporate mistrust and loathing
that we see in SR books is, IMO, limited to shadowrunners and others on the
fringes of society. By 2060, it seems to me that corps would be so
pervasive, so ubiquitous, that Joe Blow wouldn't give a hoot if they ran
the school (after all, they already run the cops and the fire dept and the
supermarket and the bars and the gas stations...). Mr. and Mrs. Blow might
even beleive that the corps would do a better job of it.

I still think it's pretty possible that a lot of schooling would be done
by private, yes, even corp-run, schools. I don't think this would extend
to SINless or the lower-classes, but I don't think it would just be for the
rich kids, either.

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Allen Smith)
Subject: And now, for my NEXT trick.....Education in 206x! (LONG!)
Date: Tue Jun 12 14:15:01 2001
On Jun 11, 11:37pm, DemonPenta@***.com wrote:
>
> [ Attachment (multipart/alternative): 2662 bytes ]

As you can see, your messages are showing up again as MIME-encoded -
unreadable for many of us, and causing worries about viruses in
attachments for others. Please stop this; the way you were posting a
bit earlier avoided it.

Thanks,

-Allen

--
Allen Smith easmith@********.rutgers.edu

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