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Message no. 1
From: STEPHEN ESDALE <SESDALE@********.ON.CA>
Subject: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:28:08 -0400
Hi. Though I've been a gamer for the better part of a decade, I
have (until recently) never touched a Shadowrun book. Partly becasue
of the Shadowrun fans in my town (Powergamer Munchkins who wouldn't
know role-playing if it flattened them) and because I felt it lacked
the atmosphere of CP2020. Not setting, but equipment. Shadowrun had
guns, cybernetics, and street stuff, but CP's chromebooks had the
small items everyone needed (like the digital wallet).
Two things changed my mind about Shadowrun. First, I actually
played the games with role-players (well 3/4 RPG'er). Secondly, I
got net acess and located Gurth's Running Gear and Chromebook
conversions. They were great and filled the gap I felt that was
missing in Shadowrun (Thanks Gurth! Looking foward to CB3
Conversion). Now I am hooked on Shadowrun. Unfortunately my
knowlege of the game in very limited (so if I use some CP2020 or
other game analogies please forgive me). Here they are.

1. Tech and magic seem to be separated too much, to the point of
playing two separate games: A Cyberpunk and a Future Fantasy game.
At least in Rifts and in TORG (Tharkold and Cyberpapacy), magic and
tech are integrated in some small fashion. I have heard of rumors
(at least from a friend) that Aztechnology has something to do with
magictech items. I know the melding of magic and technology could
unbalence the game, but somewhere down the line someones gonna do it!

2. Is it common place for this comparison between archetypes (I
mean this ludicrous Sammie vs. Adept debate)? From what I've seen,
each has their uses and their drawbacks. Why the posturing?

3. From those who know CP2020: Are Shadowrun LAV's the same as
Cyberpunk's Aerodynes? I think they are but I'm really not sure.

4. Why do most weapons in Shadowrun only have a nominal increase
an ammo than our own 20th century weapons. When I openned the Stret
Sam Catalog most the weapons were out classed by our own weapons
today! At least CP2020 made an attempt to have higher class weapons
(but even these are still going to be low-powered compared to new
technical ideas).

5. After reading the 1st edition Shadrun book, I realized they
cut out the Burnt-Out Mage from the archetypes. Does anyone know the
reason?

6. Finally, I have some older books that have damage codes of 4D2
while newer books use 4D. What was the old system and is there any
conversion notes (since there are a lot of Internet stuff which is
still 1st edition).


------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Esdale (sesdale@********.on.ca) |
-Last Roadblock on the road to enlightenment |
|
"Understanding is a Three edged Sword" |
-Kosh, Babylon 5 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 2
From: "Christopher R. Crane" <ucrc1@******.EDU>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:46:01 -0400
> got net acess and located Gurth's Running Gear and Chromebook
> conversions. They were great and filled the gap I felt that was

Anybody know where I can get this? It looks very interesting.

...Chris
Message no. 3
From: "Mark D. Fender" <mfender@******.SGCL.LIB.MO.US>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:48:14 -0500
On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, STEPHEN ESDALE wrote:

> Hi. Though I've been a gamer for the better part of a decade, I
> have (until recently) never touched a Shadowrun book. Partly becasue
> of the Shadowrun fans in my town (Powergamer Munchkins who wouldn't
> know role-playing if it flattened them) and because I felt it lacked
> the atmosphere of CP2020. Not setting, but equipment. Shadowrun had
> guns, cybernetics, and street stuff, but CP's chromebooks had the
> small items everyone needed (like the digital wallet).
> Two things changed my mind about Shadowrun. First, I actually
> played the games with role-players (well 3/4 RPG'er). Secondly, I
> got net acess and located Gurth's Running Gear and Chromebook
> conversions. They were great and filled the gap I felt that was
> missing in Shadowrun (Thanks Gurth! Looking foward to CB3
> Conversion). Now I am hooked on Shadowrun. Unfortunately my
> knowlege of the game in very limited (so if I use some CP2020 or
> other game analogies please forgive me). Here they are.
>
> 1. Tech and magic seem to be separated too much, to the point of
> playing two separate games: A Cyberpunk and a Future Fantasy game.
> At least in Rifts and in TORG (Tharkold and Cyberpapacy), magic and
> tech are integrated in some small fashion. I have heard of rumors
> (at least from a friend) that Aztechnology has something to do with
> magictech items. I know the melding of magic and technology could
> unbalence the game, but somewhere down the line someones gonna do it!

That would be cool. I often wondered about that myself, but left as is
cuz I don't want to burn out my brain.
>
> 2. Is it common place for this comparison between archetypes (I
> mean this ludicrous Sammie vs. Adept debate)? From what I've seen,
> each has their uses and their drawbacks. Why the posturing?

Thank you! An enlightened voice amongst the massess!
>
> 3. From those who know CP2020: Are Shadowrun LAV's the same as
> Cyberpunk's Aerodynes? I think they are but I'm really not sure.

Sorta. LAVS are really military style equipment and not as common as
aerodynes. Aerodynes are almost the family car in C-Punk, not so in SR.
>
> 4. Why do most weapons in Shadowrun only have a nominal increase
> an ammo than our own 20th century weapons. When I openned the Stret
> Sam Catalog most the weapons were out classed by our own weapons
> today! At least CP2020 made an attempt to have higher class weapons
> (but even these are still going to be low-powered compared to new
> technical ideas).
>
> 5. After reading the 1st edition Shadrun book, I realized they
> cut out the Burnt-Out Mage from the archetypes. Does anyone know the
> reason?

Because it sucked? No, it just moved to the GM screen and the worthless
contacts book.
>
> 6. Finally, I have some older books that have damage codes of 4D2
> while newer books use 4D. What was the old system and is there any
> conversion notes (since there are a lot of Internet stuff which is
> still 1st edition).

There is no formula. Basically, compare against other weapons of the
same type and make a good rulijng. Or add the last number to the first.
Whatever butters your pop tart.

As for, C-punk with more atmosphere and such. I tend to agree. But I
hate the rules, so I prefere SR. C-Punk is generic c-punk. SR is a bit
too happy for me. ("chummer" compared to "gato"). At least you found
some decent role-players. A lot of SR seem to lean towards warping the
rules (Which is not bad if you can roleplay. That's why they're called
role-playing games.)

>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stephen Esdale (sesdale@********.on.ca) |
> -Last Roadblock on the road to enlightenment |
> |
> "Understanding is a Three edged Sword" |
> -Kosh, Babylon 5 |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message no. 4
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:24:18 GMT
> 4. Why do most weapons in Shadowrun only have a nominal increase
> an ammo than our own 20th century weapons. When I openned the Stret
> Sam Catalog most the weapons were out classed by our own weapons
> today! At least CP2020 made an attempt to have higher class weapons
> (but even these are still going to be low-powered compared to new
> technical ideas).

Ammunition capacity is variable. For an assault rifle, thirty rounds is
about right: more, and novice troops burn too many rounds when they panic.
Hard on your supply line, and an assault rifle can't handle too much
rapid fire before the barrel burns out. For the sort of firefight you use
a pistol in, a huge magazine is less of an advantage than it appears because
you don't have time to fire it empty.

You can buy magazines like the Beta Industries C-Mag (100 rounds) or the
Ninety-Rounder for the M-16: you can get Calico pistols with hundred-round
clips: you can buy thirty-round mags for Glock automatics. All are bulky and
awkward, but sometimes useful.

The real reason? Running out of ammo adds dramatic tension to a firefight :-)

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or
for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:34:07 +0200
>They were great and filled the gap I felt that was
>missing in Shadowrun (Thanks Gurth! Looking foward to CB3
>Conversion).

Thanks :) The CB3 conversions, with revisions of the first two, are on the
way...
Oh frag... *remembers something* ...Paolo, I _will_ do an html version of
them (but that's what I said a few months ago, too :)

> 1. Tech and magic seem to be separated too much, to the point of
>playing two separate games: A Cyberpunk and a Future Fantasy game.

If you've never played a FASA game, you should know the all-overriding
commandment by which FASA designs games: "Thou shalt maintain he Holy Game
Balance(tm)." *grin* This, IMHO, is why magic and tech don't mix.

> 2. Is it common place for this comparison between archetypes (I
>mean this ludicrous Sammie vs. Adept debate)? From what I've seen,
>each has their uses and their drawbacks. Why the posturing?

Sometimes people get worked up about this, yes. Just don't mention the
American constitution if you want to avoid lots of hassle :)

> 3. From those who know CP2020: Are Shadowrun LAV's the same as
>Cyberpunk's Aerodynes? I think they are but I'm really not sure.

Approximately, but in my view (I've never really played CP2020, just bought
a couple of books for it :), aerodynes are more like your everyday car with
a Harrier-like engine dropped into it, while FASA uses them only for
military vehicles such as tanks, reconnaissance vehicles, and so on.

> 4. Why do most weapons in Shadowrun only have a nominal increase
>an ammo than our own 20th century weapons. When I openned the Stret
>Sam Catalog most the weapons were out classed by our own weapons
>today! At least CP2020 made an attempt to have higher class weapons
>(but even these are still going to be low-powered compared to new
>technical ideas).

FASA knows shit about guns (despite what Quicksilver wants us to believe :).
If you look at the pictures, they are based on 1980s/1990s weapons with some
knobs on.

> 5. After reading the 1st edition Shadrun book, I realized they
>cut out the Burnt-Out Mage from the archetypes. Does anyone know the
>reason?

Probably they wanted people to avoid mixing magic and cyberware in a single
character as much as possible. Anyway, that's my guess.

> 6. Finally, I have some older books that have damage codes of 4D2
>while newer books use 4D. What was the old system and is there any
>conversion notes (since there are a lot of Internet stuff which is
>still 1st edition).

In the old system, the last number indicated the Staging. 4D2 is a bad
example because it would be the same as the new 4D. But in the old days an
Uzi III did 4M3 damage, wile today it does 6M. I take it you know that 6M
means you take a Moderate wound, and the Target Number for the resistance
test is 6. The same thing with 4M3: take a Moderate, and resists against a
TN 4. But the difference is in how many successes you need to stage the
wound up or down: today, it is 2 successes for _every_ wound; then, it
varied, as the Staging indicates: with 4M3, you need _three_ successes to
stage it up or down, making the damage harder to increase, but also harder
to decrease.
I personally liked the varied staging figures, and if it was up to me they'd
still exist in SR2.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Living on "if..." and "if I tried..."
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:34:33 +0200
>The real reason? Running out of ammo adds dramatic tension to a firefight :-)

Have you _ever_ run out of ammo in a Shadowrun firefight?


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Living on "if..." and "if I tried..."
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 7
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:19:42 +1000
STEPHEN ESDALE writes:

> Hi.

Greetings. Welcome aboard.

> Though I've been a gamer for the better part of a decade, I have (until
> recently) never touched a Shadowrun book.

What? How could you? You blasphemer you! :-)

> Partly becasue of the Shadowrun fans in my town (Powergamer Munchkins who
> wouldn't know role-playing if it flattened them)

Yeah, not that difficult to do in SR, and it would turn you off a game.

> and because I felt it lacked the atmosphere of CP2020.

I've heard a lot of people say that. I brought and played Cyberpunk about 8
years ago, back in my younger days. (I don't think it was even known as
CP2020 then either, but I can't remember.) After some thieving butthead
stole it, I moved on to SR. And have never looked back. I don't really feel
that CP2020 had all that much more of an "atmosphere" than SR. But then
again, I was playing it in my younger, noteably more munchkinous days, so
that probably explains it :-) However, I think the group you play with, and
the style of your game contributes a lot more to the "atmosphere" than the
particular game you play.

> [Tech & Magic]

As yet, FASA has taken a decidedly separate approach to magic and tech. I
agree this has ups and downs, but it does set the game apart from other
games with similar settings, which I think is good. I also think that the
Dark Lords at FASA are slowly working their way towards a better melding of
tech and magic, and that one day we'll see just that. But for the moment,
such theories and ideas are good for the reasons behind runs. Dark and
mysterious and all that.

> [Sammies vs Adepts]

Also known as the "Tech vs Magic" debate. Very common. It never gets
anywhere, because, as you say, each has their own distinct pros and cons,
but the topic accounts for much of the bandwidth of the list. Someone says
something about one or the other being superior. Someone else disagrees. And
you're off! Ego's butt, and much bandwidth is consumed. Fairly harmless
really, and usually ended by someone posting a really good summary of why one
is _not_ better than the other (Marcs is the best I've seen, it's been used
once or twice now).

> 6. Finally, I have some older books that have damage codes of 4D2
> while newer books use 4D. What was the old system and is there any
> conversion notes (since there are a lot of Internet stuff which is
> still 1st edition).

Under "Updating Adventures" in the "Sourcebook Updates" part of SRII
it
gives a few suggestions on how to translate the codes. It's on page 283 of
SRII. Basically it says to first look for an equivalent
weapon/spell/effect/etc, and use the same code. If this does not succeed
(like a really unique item), then it suggests to add the staging (the second
number) to the Power (the first number), to get the 2nd edition Power. And
it notes that the GM should be ready to fudge translations to acheive the
desired effect.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
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b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 8
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:45:16 +0200
> > 2. Is it common place for this comparison between archetypes (I
> > mean this ludicrous Sammie vs. Adept debate)? From what I've seen,
> > each has their uses and their drawbacks. Why the posturing?
>
> Thank you! An enlightened voice amongst the massess!

Well I admit its a munchkin thing :) Anyway we took it off the
list. for anyone that gives a **it about the outcome - I think
that the PA wins by a mile. This concernes however a *highly*
oprimised versions of the archetypes fighting in strictly HtH.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+$>++++ L+>+++ E--- N+ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 9
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:15:57 +0930
Gurth wrote:
> Have you _ever_ run out of ammo in a Shadowrun firefight?

Yes. First time I played SR, the Saturday Night FireFight... the Merc
archetype with his Ingram Valiant (no, not me). 10 rounds per action, 50
round clip. No spares on him. (Have you ever noticed that a LMG makes a
bloody good club?)

Also, a Bug City campaign could easily involve loss of ammo.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 10
From: Kay and Pete Hanson <kidkaos@******.NET>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:33:00 -0500
>>The real reason? Running out of ammo adds dramatic tension to a firefight :-)
Gurth said:
>
>Have you _ever_ run out of ammo in a Shadowrun firefight?
>
>
Yes, yes, yes, and had swords break, etc...guns jam, dud explosives. We
count the bullets unless you have mega-ammo with you. (which my players
hate to do in case they get fireballed or get to near heat, or with plastic
explosives someone gets an 'electrical' jolt)
Also my players hate the finger spell. Do you know what happens when that
'bad' mage undoes the safety and pulls the trigger while your gun is in a
holster???
(only on guns that can be seen:)
But yes as a player and as a g.m. my charachter and other charachters run
out of ammo, have guns jam on occassion, etc.
Kay
Message no. 11
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:51:04 -0400
On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Gurth wrote:

> Have you _ever_ run out of ammo in a Shadowrun firefight?

Yes, and boy did that suck. Luckily, I was playing a combat
mage, so I wasn't totally without offensive capabilities. But it still
sucked not being able to level my Remington Roomsweeper at people and be
able to fill them full o' scatter-shot flechette.

Marc
Message no. 12
From: Tim Serpas <wretch@**.COM>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:25:10 -0500
On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Gurth wrote:
[stuff about staging and SRI->SRII conversions snipped]
> I personally liked the varied staging figures, and if it was up to me they'd
> still exist in SR2.
>
Then keep using them! Having staging of two as the standard cuts down on
memorizing damage codes and deciding what is more effective, but the
occasional staging of 3 or 4 won't hurt. (or maybe it will...) To make
a significant distinction between slugs and explosive rounds, we give ex.
rounds +2 power and +2 staging (I'm told that's what they got in 1st ed.),
so you get a more certain Moderate wound (if, say you're using your Ruger
Superwarhawk), but it'll be tougher to get a Serious or deadly.

As long as it's used in moderation, you won't have too much bookkeeping
to worry about.


Peace through superior firepower,
Tim Serpas, BS Physics
wretch@**.com
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Message no. 13
From: "Mark D. Fender" <mfender@******.SGCL.LIB.MO.US>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:21:40 -0500
On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, Paul Jonathan Adam wrote:

> 4. Why do most weapons in Shadowrun only have a nominal increase
> > an ammo than our own 20th century weapons. When I openned the Stret
> > Sam Catalog most the weapons were out classed by our own weapons
> > today! At least CP2020 made an attempt to have higher class weapons
> > (but even these are still going to be low-powered compared to new
> > technical ideas).
>
> Ammunition capacity is variable. For an assault rifle, thirty rounds is
> about right: more, and novice troops burn too many rounds when they panic.
> Hard on your supply line, and an assault rifle can't handle too much
> rapid fire before the barrel burns out. For the sort of firefight you use
> a pistol in, a huge magazine is less of an advantage than it appears because
> you don't have time to fire it empty.
>
> You can buy magazines like the Beta Industries C-Mag (100 rounds) or the
> Ninety-Rounder for the M-16: you can get Calico pistols with hundred-round
> clips: you can buy thirty-round mags for Glock automatics. All are bulky and
> awkward, but sometimes useful.
>
> The real reason? Running out of ammo adds dramatic tension to a firefight :-)
>
A personal story to add to this: a friend of mine just joined the army
and he was telling me that he was in the field and was instructed that
when the trucks rolled by, to open up with his SAW and keep firing. He
did thi, until a guy behind him tapped him on the helmet. He stopped
shooting and asked what was wrong. His gun barrel was red-hot and slowly
bending down. This happens when you have a huge clip and panic. Maybe
that's why. Then, again, maybe no one at FASA knows what their talking
about :)

PAX
Mark Fender
Death
Scurge
"When something important is going on, silence is a lie."--A.M. Rosenthal
Message no. 14
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:19:15 BST
Mark Fender wrote :-
> His gun barrel was red-hot and slowly bending down.

A query, just how long a belt did the guy cap off?

I mean, SAW's are designed for (near) continuous fire,
at least for a short (ish) time.

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 15
From: "Mark D. Fender" <mfender@******.SGCL.LIB.MO.US>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:57:13 -0500
On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, P Ward wrote:

> Mark Fender wrote :-
> > His gun barrel was red-hot and slowly bending down.
>
> A query, just how long a belt did the guy cap off?
>
> I mean, SAW's are designed for (near) continuous fire,
> at least for a short (ish) time.
>
> Phil (Renegade)
>
That I do not know. Sorry.
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:40:23 +0200
>Yes, yes, yes, and had swords break, etc...guns jam, dud explosives. We
>count the bullets unless you have mega-ammo with you.

I also want players to keep track of the amount of ammo in their weapons.
The only times they have to reload is when using those CMDTs -- three dead
NPCs and you have to reload :) but apart from that, virtually never.

> But yes as a player and as a g.m. my charachter and other charachters run
>out of ammo, have guns jam on occassion, etc.

Never had a gun jam either (using the Rule of One, that is).


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sanity is contagious
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:40:28 +0200
>Then keep using them!

I had been thinking about reintroducing them, but I decided against it.. My
thoughts were to use a mix between SR1 and SR2 damage codes, probably by
using the SR2 damage code but with the SR1 staging behind it: an HK227 would
then become 7M3 (SR2: 7M, SR1: 5M3), but since this would require me to
modify all damage codes I haven't put it back into the game... And no, I was
not planning on going back to SR1 armor :)

>a significant distinction between slugs and explosive rounds, we give ex.
>rounds +2 power and +2 staging (I'm told that's what they got in 1st ed.),

Only +2 Staging, not +2 Power. This made them much nastier than SR2
Explosive rounds...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sanity is contagious
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: A newbie's Introduction and some Questions
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:40:31 +0200
>A personal story to add to this: [story snipped] His gun barrel was
red-hot and slowly
>bending down. This happens when you have a huge clip and panic.

If you ask me he was forgetting that you have to change your barrel after a
few belts to prevent just such a thing...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sanity is contagious
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)

Further Reading

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!