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Message no. 1
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@*******.tamu.edu>
Subject: A new thread; combat at sea ... sink me
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:51:12 -0500 (CDT)
Trying Fro's suggestion NOT to put a space or tab on the first line.

Once again I'd like to get a new thread going so please consider
the following;

A group of runners are trying to take out the bad guys big boat. One
of the runners shoots an assault cannon at the big boat's waterline.
Conceptually (gratned SRII's vehicle combat rules kinda stink) If the
cannon round punctures the hull there is a chance that the boat will take
on water and sink. How do other people handle boat battles.

See it's not "Killing In Shadowrun"

regards
Bill
Message no. 2
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: A new thread; combat at sea ... sink me
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:03:29 -0500
> A group of runners are trying to take out the bad guys big boat. One
>of the runners shoots an assault cannon at the big boat's waterline.
>Conceptually (gratned SRII's vehicle combat rules kinda stink) If the
>cannon round punctures the hull there is a chance that the boat will take
>on water and sink. How do other people handle boat battles.

Well, that depends on the size of the boat. If it's double hulled, then the
boat has no problems. If the boat has remedial compartmentalizations,
there's no problem, cause only a small section of the boat would take on
water. A big boat (and I mean _big_) wouldn't have a problem if the runners
were lucky enough to puncture their outer hull. Damage control would kick
in. On the other hand, if it was a pleasure craft like a small to medium
sized yacht or a sail boat, it could sink pretty fast.

Here is a real quick, right off the top of my head formula for sink times

60 minutes - powerlevel of attack that caused hole in the boat + body

I'm not a boat expert, 60 minutes just seemed like a good amount of time. I
figured the powerlevel of the attack would help determine size of the hole,
and the body of the boat as a measure of how much water it could take on.

IMHO, unless you plan on doing this often, just go with what feels right.
If you think the boat should sink in 5 minutes, go for it. Same with if you
think the boat should flounder around and slowly succumb to the murky depths
over a period of several hours.

Mike Broadwater
"An object at rest cannot be stopped! Yeah, baby, yeah!" - The Evil
Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
Message no. 3
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: A new thread; combat at sea ... sink me
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:18:20 -0600 (MDT)
William Monroe Ashe wrote:
|
|Trying Fro's suggestion NOT to put a space or tab on the first line.
|
| Once again I'd like to get a new thread going so please consider
|the following;
|
| A group of runners are trying to take out the bad guys big boat. One
|of the runners shoots an assault cannon at the big boat's waterline.
|Conceptually (gratned SRII's vehicle combat rules kinda stink) If the
|cannon round punctures the hull there is a chance that the boat will take
|on water and sink. How do other people handle boat battles.

In real life military boats are compartmentalized so that if the hull
is breached that area is sealed off to keep it from sinking. I have no
idea what the standard is for civilian boats. And I'm refering to big
boats, not personal boats or yachts.

The easiest way for runners to sink a big boat would be to sneak aboard
and place explosives in the engine room.

If you're talking about something in the 40-foot yacht size then check
out the rules on shooting through barriers. If enough damage is done
large holes will result. Then just use your judgement as a GM.

I agree that SRII's combat rules are anoying. Just use them as a guide if
you need to and do what needs to be done to make for a good game.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 4
From: "Paul J. Adam" <paul@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: A new thread; combat at sea ... sink me
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 17:13:29 +0100
In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.960528104544.14239A-100000@*******.tamu.edu>,
William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@*******.tamu.edu> writes
>Trying Fro's suggestion NOT to put a space or tab on the first line.
>
> Once again I'd like to get a new thread going so please consider
>the following;
>
> A group of runners are trying to take out the bad guys big boat. One
>of the runners shoots an assault cannon at the big boat's waterline.
>Conceptually (gratned SRII's vehicle combat rules kinda stink) If the
>cannon round punctures the hull there is a chance that the boat will take
>on water and sink. How do other people handle boat battles.

Depends on how big a boat :) Generally the boat will have pumps, and if
a decent size a degree of compartmentalisation, so it may list but not
sink. You'd have to divert crew to patch the leak or run the pumps, at
the least.

IRL, for small boats and yachts, a .50cal machine gun or two will chew
it apart pretty thorougly, a 20mm absolutely shred it above the
waterline and leave it ablaze.


--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: A new thread; combat at sea ... sink me
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:28:39 +0200
At 18:18 Uhr 28.05.96, David Buehrer wrote:
>William Monroe Ashe wrote:
>| A group of runners are trying to take out the bad guys big boat. One
>|of the runners shoots an assault cannon at the big boat's waterline.
>|Conceptually (gratned SRII's vehicle combat rules kinda stink) If the
>|cannon round punctures the hull there is a chance that the boat will take
>|on water and sink. How do other people handle boat battles.

>In real life military boats are compartmentalized so that if the hull
>is breached that area is sealed off to keep it from sinking. I have no
>idea what the standard is for civilian boats. And I'm refering to big
>boats, not personal boats or yachts.
I on the other hand don't know anything about military ships (weeeell... they
do exist, this I know :-) but on small private boats are (normally, that is)
enough (sorry, don't know the english words, will do my best to describe,
please ignore cludgy style! :-) materials lighter-then-water integrated
to keep the boat floating even when the ship is full with water. So your
choice had to be to completly break the hull since often there are several
independent "swimming" areas.

>The easiest way for runners to sink a big boat would be to sneak aboard
>and place explosives in the engine room.
Yup.

Sascha

--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 6
From: Fro <fro@***.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: A new thread; combat at sea ... sink me
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:51:23 -0600
At 10:51 28/05/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Trying Fro's suggestion NOT to put a space or tab on the first line.

I suggested that? When? *puzzled look*
Message no. 7
From: Russ Myrick <rm91612@****.net>
Subject: Re: A new thread; combat at sea ... sink me
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 17:18:34 -0700
David Buehrer wrote:
> In real life military boats are compartmentalized so that if the hull
> is breached that area is sealed off to keep it from sinking. I have no
> idea what the standard is for civilian boats. And I'm refering to big
> boats, not personal boats or yachts.

I don't know about other countries yet, but 2 years ago the US Coast
Guard succeeded in getting new regulations in place that require civilian
water craft to be made "unsinkable" meaning that if damaged less than 80%
hull loss the vessel would remain afloat for use as a life raft. They
gave manufacturers no delay time for enacting these measures and existing
owners 7 years to upgrade their craft. This regulation is supposed to
apply to everything from a canoe to a cruise ship or ferry.

> The easiest way for runners to sink a big boat would be to sneak aboard
> and place explosives in the engine room.

Have swimmer attach what we call a shafting charge. It looks kind of
like a bangalore torpedo charge only it's flexible like a fire hose with
no pressure. Wrap it around the prop shaft, clip the ends together.
Peel the tape off the glow stripe and twist the charge about until the
stripe faces the shaft/hull seal. slide it up against the seal & pull the
pin. swim away quickly. This thing not only burns a 47 cm dia. shaft in
two in 5 sec. it burns out the shaft seals leaving an additional 10 cm to
30 cm in dia. for the water to enter the people tank -- no DC plugs for
that baby.
Message no. 8
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: A new thread; combat at sea ... sink me
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 14:16:58 +0200
At 20:51 Uhr 28.05.96, Fro wrote:
>At 10:51 28/05/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>Trying Fro's suggestion NOT to put a space or tab on the first line.
> I suggested that? When? *puzzled look*
That was a clever advice you gave, Fro! :-)

Sascha

--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

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