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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Thu May 30 08:25:01 2002
When a decker jacks in, his deck becomes part of a system. It should be
treated as a host.
So why can't another decker hack it?
If he can what would be a security value for a deck?
Could he crash this host-deck, or download decker's utilitys?

Any ideas?

Adam
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Thu May 30 09:00:02 2002
>
> When a decker jacks in, his deck becomes part of a system. It should be
> treated as a host.
> So why can't another decker hack it?

Who says it can't? A decker logged/hacked onto a host can be attacked by a
hosts decker or anyone else in there as well. Not simply booted off the
system but deep fry the persons brain if they have the security level and
black IC.

> If he can what would be a security value for a deck?

Security of the deck "should" be listed in the Matrix section of the book. I
don't have it handy so I can't point it out specifically.

> Could he crash this host-deck, or download decker's utilitys?

Yes he could crash the deck, brain fry the decker, download utilities or
other information off the deck. However most will just follow and trace,
rather than risk the decker jacking out. early

>
> Any ideas?
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Thu May 30 09:15:01 2002
Jonathan Wrote:

> When a decker jacks in, his deck becomes part of a system. It should be
> treated as a host.
> So why can't another decker hack it?

Who says it can't? A decker logged/hacked onto a host can be attacked by a
hosts decker or anyone else in there as well. Not simply booted off the
system but deep fry the persons brain if they have the security level and
black IC.

> If he can what would be a security value for a deck?

Security of the deck "should" be listed in the Matrix section of the book. I
don't have it handy so I can't point it out specifically.

> Could he crash this host-deck, or download decker's utilitys?

Yes he could crash the deck, brain fry the decker, download utilities or
other information off the deck. However most will just follow and trace,
rather than risk the decker jacking out. early

>
> Any ideas?
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>

Basically in my understanding attacking someone in the matrix or performing
any other operation against them IS hacking their deck. The Decker is his
OWN security rating. Crashing their icon, dumps the decker from the matrix
and is basically the same as crashing his deck. I think there are probably
utilities and operations that could steal someone's deck. But I don't think
you could actually "enter" someone's deck like a host if that's what you
meant adam. I guess it just doesn't have the reality algorithims of the
actual matrix.
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Thu May 30 09:30:01 2002
>From: "Adam" <eryk@*********.net>
>When a decker jacks in, his deck becomes part of a system. It should be
>treated as a host.
>So why can't another decker hack it?
>If he can what would be a security value for a deck?
>Could he crash this host-deck, or download decker's utilitys?

That's what matrix combat is all about IMO, IIRC some black IC effectively
hacks the decker's brain, (moving through the chokepoint of the datajack...)
It is possible to crash a deckers Icon, in the same way as it's possible to
crash a host, after all the host you see is basically just a really big
Icon, you're talking hundreds of Gp equivalent.
The problem is that a decker's system is effectively always on active alert,
so you can't sneak into his "Host" and do what you want without him
noticing.

_________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Thu May 30 13:35:08 2002
According to Adam, on Thu, 30 May 2002 the word on the street was...

> When a decker jacks in, his deck becomes part of a system. It should be
> treated as a host.
> So why can't another decker hack it?

No idea... Which is precisely why I wrote up rules for decking a deck some
years ago :) I should still have them somewhere; let's see if I can find
them... Note that they have never been tested, so they may not work as well
as I hope they will. They were written before Matrix came out, though, so
may need a little updating.

-----

Cyberdecks as Hosts

Although not often done, it is possible to enter another decker's cyberdeck
as if it were a host. This is in part because deckers who regularly invade
other deckers' cyberdecks tend to get a bad reputation on the street.


System Ratings

Like normal hosts, cyberdecks have system ratings. However, they are a bit
simpler than those of other hosts. The formulas below show how to calculate
the system ratings.

Security Code: The decker can decide whether the deck is Blue, Green,
Orange, or Red security; UV decks do not exist as far as is known. The
choice is limited by the MPCP of the deck, however: MPCP-1 or -2 decks can
only be Blue; MPCP-3 or -4 decks can be Blue or Green; MPCP-4 or -5 decks
can be Blue, Green, or Orange; and MPCP-7 or higher decks can be any color
except ultra-violet.
Security Rating: MPCP / 2 (round up)
Access: MPCP + Evasion + Masking
Control: MPCP + Bod
Index: MPCP
Files: MPCP
Slave: MPCP

A deck with an MPCP of 7, a security code set to Orange, Bod-5, Evasion-5
and Masking-4 has the following ratings: Orange-4/16/12/7/7/7.

Changes to the MPCP or persona program ratings (for example, through damage
by Blaster IC or by running the deck in a particular mode, as per Virtual
Realities 2.0 p. 77) are instantly reflected in the deck's system ratings.
If the sample deck were to have its MPCP reduced to 5, it would immediately
become an Orange-3/14/10/5/5/5 "host," for example, while running the deck
(at its normal MPCP of 7) in Bod-mode makes it an Orange-5/12/15/7/7/7
host. If the MPCP drops to a value that doesn't allow the current security
code, the code drops to the highest allowed value. For example, a Red-7
deck that has its MCPP reduced to 3 would become a Green-3 deck.

Note that legal cyberdecks do not usually have Evasion, and hardly ever
come equipped with Masking, which makes them much simpler to invade than
decks used by security, shadowrunner, or criminal deckers.


System Operations

Not all system operations can be performed on a cyberdeck. Following is a
list of the operations that are either impossible or work differently on a
cyberdeck than on a host.

Control Slave, Decrypt Slave, Edit Slave, Locate Slave, Monitor Slave: Only
if the cyberdeck is hooked up to some external device can these operations
be performed. A vidscreen counts as a Slave subsystem, but the decker's
ASIST interface or a hitcher jack does not-intruders can show things on the
deck's vidscreen for example, but cannot send messages straight to the
decker.

Crash Application: Any program loaded into the deck's active memory, except
for IC (see below), can be crashed with this operation, but the decker him-
or herself cannot be affected.

Crash Host: This crashes the cyberdeck, and follows the normal rules for
this operation. However, in addition to IC, all the decker's active utility
programs also have their ratings reduced by 2 while the deck is shutting
down.

Invalidate Passcode: The decker owning the cyberdeck cannot have his or her
passcode invalidated, effectively making this operation meaningless unless
the decker has set up passcodes for his or her friends.

Locate Access Node: Impossible on a cyberdeck itself, but if someone wants
to find the deck (in order to then deck into it, for example), this system
operation must be used in the LTG or host to which the deck is connected.
This test has a penalty equal to the deck's Masking rating applied to it,
because illegal cyberdecks are difficult to find. For example, finding a
deck with Masking 6 on an LTG with Index 8 requires a test with target
number of 8 + 6 = 14. Also, this operation must be repeated every time a
decker wants to find someone else's cyberdeck, even if it is plugged into
the exact same jackpoint as last time it was located.

Validate Passcode: This allows the intruder to set up a passcode by which
entry into the cyberdeck will be easier in future. The gamemaster should
allow the deck's user an Intelligence test against a target number of 3 to
detect the passcode any time he or she takes a look at the passcode list
for the deck. If the decker is the only one normally using the deck, the
passcode would almost certainly be spotted automatically at that time,
without the need for a test.


Appearance

Nearly all cyberdecks appear according to the Universal Matrix
Specification standard, because most deckers do not spend much time
creating a nice environment inside their own decks-largely, this is due to
the fact that many don't know others can invade their decks.

It is possible for deckers to create a sculpted system in their decks by
programming the MPCP as if it were 2 rating points higher than it actually
is. If the deck also has a reality filter (see Virtual Realities 2.0 page
84), their modifiers are cumulative, giving a +4. This modifier applies
even if the reality filter and the sculpting consist of the same imagery.
The actual MPCP rating is not affected by sculpting the deck, however, and
neither is anyone's initiative modified, unlike when using a reality filter.


Ice On A Cyberdeck

It is possible for deckers to install intrusion countermeasures on a
cyberdeck, to protect the deck against intruders. A deck needs quite a lot
of memory to be loaded up with IC and still have room to spare for the
programs the decker needs on a Matrix run.

IC cannot be "installed" in offline storage. It can be kept there,
certainly, but cannot be launched by the deck against intruders.


Security Sheaves

A cyberdeck with IC installed on it also needs a security sheaf to decide
when to activate which piece of IC. This is entirely up to the decker-he or
she can decide where the trigger points are, and what IC is launched at
each step. Programming a security sheaf is done with the Edit Security
Sheaf system operation; as a decker is automatically a supervisor on his or
her own deck, no tests are needed to perform this operation.

Options that can be included are passive alerts, active alerts, and
shutdown. These have special effects when used on a cyberdeck, though:

Passive Alerts increase the deck's subsystem ratings by 2 (note that the
actual deck ratings, as far as the decker are concerned, are not
adjusted-an MPCP-8 deck stays an MPCP-8 deck even if its System Ratings are
increased due to a passive alert) and subtract 2 from the decker's
initiative because the deck needs to divide its processor time between the
decker's actions and stopping the intruder. The decker is not warned
directly; the only indicator that something is up is the fact that things
might seem to be going a bit more slowly than usual. (In other words, the
gamemaster should adjust the decker's initiative without informing the
decker's player.)

Active Alerts make the deck actually inform the decker that something is
up, through a warning sent via the ASIST interface. This usually takes the
form of the decker "knowing" the deck is being invaded; for tortoises, it
consists of a message displayed on-screen and/or played over the deck's
speakers. Otherwise it is the same as a passive alert.

Shutdown is a last measure not often employed on cyberdecks, because
shutting down the deck, in addition to kicking out the intruder, dumps the
decker from the Matrix and thereby causes dump shock for both of them. In
all respects it's similar to shutting down a normal host, as described on
page 53 of Virtual Realities 2.0.

The security sheaf will launch IC that is not present in active memory, as
long as it is in the deck's storage memory; it will automatically perform a
Swap Memory operation if there is enough free active memory in the deck to
load the IC; thus, the IC's launch will be delayed by one Combat Phase in
such a situation. As soon as the Swap Memory operation is complete, the IC
will be launched as normal.

IC kept in offline storage can never be launched by the cyberdeck.

Should the security sheaf want to launch IC for which there is no room in
active memory, the IC will not be launched. However, as soon as sufficient
active memory is available, the IC will be automatically loaded (as above)
and launched unless the decker spends a Free Action to stop it. Deckers may
want to keep an eye on what their security sheaf is doing, so as not to run
out of memory unexpectedly because it is all taken up by IC attacking an
intruder.

A decker can learn the current security tally of his or her own deck by
spending a Free Action, and can adjust the tally with an Edit Security
Tally operation.


Manually Launching IC

A decker can manually launch IC installed on his or her cyberdeck. Doing so
requires that it is loaded into active memory (requiring a Swap Memory
operation if the IC is only present in storage memory), and then "set
loose" by spending a Simple Action per IC program to be activated. The
decker need not roll any test to activate IC, as the operation takes place
on his or her own cyberdeck.


Limits

IC can only be launched once for every time it's loaded into active memory,
whether the launch happens manually or because it's triggered by the
security sheaf. If you want multiple copies running at once, you'll need to
spend precious memory space loading the IC multiple times.

IC that is crashed by an intruding decker is automatically removed from
active memory by the deck's MPCP. The security sheaf will re-load it into
active memory when needed.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Thu May 30 18:40:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam" <eryk@*********.net>


> When a decker jacks in, his deck becomes part of a system. It should be
> treated as a host.
> So why can't another decker hack it?
> If he can what would be a security value for a deck?
> Could he crash this host-deck, or download decker's utilitys?

Well, no, not really. It becomes connected to the system, but it doesn't
necessarily inform the LTG to produce a SAN for it. It doesn't start doing
any distributed processing for "the System".

It's similar to the way connecting to the internet works right now, if you
don't have a server/daemon running on a particular port, your TCP/IP stack
will simply refuse the connection. If you have a firewall set up the
person (?) connecting won't even gets those bits back, it's just like
throwing a baseball into a black hole.

Of course, if you do have some (and they'd have to be the right ones)
servers/daemons running, and someone knows you MXP address, well yeah, they
could do some hacking. Unless the deck had invested in IC for his "host"
(the server/daemon) security is going to be non-existant, and anyway
security ratings are going to be horribly low. If such a thing was
attempted in my game, it would just be a matter of time (not skill, once
the entryway is found) to find/download anything on the deck.

Also, if ou were running the servers/daemons on purpose, you might have a
SAN set up with your LTG so that someone could simply find it and go
through there (much easier than tracing your datatrail.) But, then you are
also more likely to have invested in IC. [If you are running a windows
box, or more distros of linux, you've probably got a few (very secure)
servers/deamons running even if you didn't know about it.]

Boyd Stephen Smith, Jr.
bss03@****.edu
ICQ# 514984
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Eric Bergstrom)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Thu May 30 19:25:00 2002
>When a decker jacks in, his deck becomes part of a system. It should be</br>
>treated as a host.</br>
>So why can't another decker hack it?</br>
>If he can what would be a security value for a deck?</br>
>Could he crash this host-deck, or download decker's utilitys?</br>
In the same line of reason, how does one set up a matrix host, a webserver<br> of
the matix if one will, does the player get to decide how to work it,<br> should he
make programming tests to create the IC?
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Fri May 31 05:40:14 2002
According to Eric Bergstrom, on Fri, 31 May 2002 the word on the street was...

> In the same line of reason, how does one set up a matrix host, a
> webserver<br> of the matix if one will, does the player get to decide how
> to work it,<br> should he make programming tests to create the IC?

Of course, if you write your own IC -- this is true for all programs, so why
not for IC? OTOH, if you buy/beg/borrow a copy, you'd only need to load it
into the deck.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Fri May 31 09:45:01 2002
> > When a decker jacks in, his deck becomes part of a system. It should be
> > treated as a host.
> > So why can't another decker hack it?

> Who says it can't? A decker logged/hacked onto a host can be attacked by a
> hosts decker or anyone else in there as well. Not simply booted off the
> system but deep fry the persons brain if they have the security level and
> black IC.

You're mising the point. Decker's persona/icon can be "hacked" in many
different ways. I'm talking about hacking his deck dirrectly through his
jack point. Like when you jack in your home in Seatlle and cause mayhem in
Tokyo for example, and suddenly some evil soul (like a mamber of a matrix
gang) is hacking your home terminal. To his suprise he discovers that
someone has linked a cyberdeck to it, so he hacks this deck.just for fun.
Should a deck be treated like a host than? Or maybe just a slave? Could he
crash this slave, and dump a decker?

> > If he can what would be a security value for a deck?

> Security of the deck "should" be listed in the Matrix section of the book.
I
> don't have it handy so I can't point it out specifically.

I have the book, where is it stated?

> > Could he crash this host-deck, or download decker's utilitys?
>
> Yes he could crash the deck, brain fry the decker, download utilities or
> other information off the deck. However most will just follow and trace,
> rather than risk the decker jacking out. early

Where does it says so???

> Basically in my understanding attacking someone in the matrix or
performing
> any other operation against them IS hacking their deck. The Decker is his
> OWN security rating. Crashing their icon, dumps the decker from the matrix
> and is basically the same as crashing his deck. I think there are
probably
> utilities and operations that could steal someone's deck. But I don't
think
> you could actually "enter" someone's deck like a host if that's what you
> meant adam. I guess it just doesn't have the reality algorithims of the
> actual matrix.

Why not? You can perform in it like it has a UMS iconography. If you can
jack into soda mochine (from the meat world and from the matrix) than why
can't you enter sombody else deck?
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Fri May 31 09:50:02 2002
> In the same line of reason, how does one set up a matrix host, a
> webserver<br> of the matix if one will, does the player get to decide how
> to work it,<br> should he make programming tests to create the IC?

Of course, if you write your own IC -- this is true for all programs, so why
not for IC? OTOH, if you buy/beg/borrow a copy, you'd only need to load it
into the deck.

Are there any rules concerning this ???
How many Mps does IC take?
Maybe its like an agent with the right utilitys?

Adam
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Fri May 31 11:00:02 2002
>From: "Adam" <eryk@*********.net>
>Of course, if you write your own IC -- this is true for all programs, so
>why
>not for IC? OTOH, if you buy/beg/borrow a copy, you'd only need to load it
>into the deck.
>
>Are there any rules concerning this ???
>How many Mps does IC take?
>Maybe its like an agent with the right utilitys?

IIRC each IC has a multiplier, cross ref that with the rating in the program
size table and bingo, follow the normal programming rules.

_________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Fri May 31 13:05:14 2002
On Thu, 30 May 2002 16:26:57 -0700 (PDT)
Eric Bergstrom <bandwidthoracle@***.com> wrote:


> In the same line of reason, how does one set up a matrix host, a webserver<br>
of the matix if one will, does the player get to decide how to work it,<br> should
he make programming tests to create the IC?

Well, from what I can gather, only corps have the nuyen to set up a true
"Matrix Host". But I say anyone can rent space in a host, and do what
they want with it (build a "website", or whatever). The most basic plans
(equivalent to the "free webspace" given by ISPs) only give you a space
to post stuff and decorate in ways that don't affect the game rules,
and the only security you get is that of the parent host.

"Advanced corporate leasing plans" allow a corp (or a wealthy individual
with a good technical staff) to set up a virtual machine within the
parent host, covered by its own security. If your runners ever get to
_this_ point, make up some rules on the spot (it's unlikely they'll do
it more than once :)) and charge them through the nose for it.

--
Bira -- homem saído das entranhas da Terra para mudar o destino da humanidade,
usando apenas um filhote de urubu e um rolo de "silver tape"...
http://www.shadowlandbr.hpg.com.br
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Fri May 31 17:20:01 2002
"Advanced corporate leasing plans" allow a corp (or a wealthy individual
with a good technical staff) to set up a virtual machine within the
parent host, covered by its own security. If your runners ever get to
_this_ point, make up some rules on the spot (it's unlikely they'll do
it more than once :)) and charge them through the nose for it.

If, you're playing a corp team campaigne, it is very liklely that the team
decker will be cooperating with host designers and scoulpters, so there
should be some kind of mention of that in SR sourcebooks. Unfortunatly there
isn't.
bummer!

cheers
>Smiling Bandit<
>Strikes/Again<>Ha/Ha/Ha<
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Sat Jun 1 05:30:01 2002
According to Adam, on Fri, 31 May 2002 the word on the street was...

> > Of course, if you write your own IC -- this is true for all programs, so
> > why not for IC? OTOH, if you buy/beg/borrow a copy, you'd only need to
> > load it into the deck.
>
> Are there any rules concerning this ???

There are, in Matrix, but IIRC it doesn't give multipliers. I did write up
rules for writing IC at the same time I wrote the "decking a deck" rules
(which I submitted to FASA for inclusion in Matrix, but they didn't make
it) but they're in need of some updating to conform to the Matrix rules.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Sat Jun 1 06:50:00 2002
> > Of course, if you write your own IC -- this is true for all programs, so
> > why not for IC? OTOH, if you buy/beg/borrow a copy, you'd only need to
> > load it into the deck.

> Are there any rules concerning this ???

There are, in Matrix, but IIRC it doesn't give multipliers. I did write up
rules for writing IC at the same time I wrote the "decking a deck" rules
(which I submitted to FASA for inclusion in Matrix, but they didn't make
it) but they're in need of some updating to conform to the Matrix rules.


You're rules are cool :))) thanks for listing them!
By the way what does "IIRC"; "IMHO" and "OTOH" means?

cheers !
Web newbie
- Adam
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Matthew Bond)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Sat Jun 1 09:15:02 2002
> By the way what does "IIRC"; "IMHO" and "OTOH" means?

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly

IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

OTOH = On The Other Hand

HTH*

Matt

*HTH = Hope This Helps
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Sat Jun 1 14:20:01 2002
> > By the way what does "IIRC"; "IMHO" and "OTOH"
means?
> IIRC = If I Recall Correctly
> IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
> OTOH = On The Other Hand
> HTH*
> Matt
> *HTH = Hope This Helps

It does :))))
thanx !

Adam
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Mon Jun 3 00:20:01 2002
> > > Of course, if you write your own IC ...
<snip>
> > Are there any rules concerning this ???
> There are, in Matrix, but IIRC it doesn't give multipliers.

Actually, this is a hard one for deckers, 'cause IC is Juzd Zoh Gohl. In
general, however, the best parts of IC have already been snipped out and
formed into ordinary programs, generally with massive multipliers (i.e. 10,
20, 40 at base) and similar costs. Black Hammer and other utilities have
been raided from IC programs, and essentially the decker is a piece of Mobile
IC himself.

However, if you want to 'load up your own IC and let 'em loose' -- well, they
already have this written up, in the form of 'program frames'. Fun idea, but
it's a memory-hog. Of course, IC would be as well, and likely incredibly
worse; a program frame at least has the deck's support.


The Wyrm Ouroboros
'Half Russian mathemetician,
half Silicon Valley code freak.'
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Mon Jun 3 05:30:01 2002
According to Adam, on Sat, 01 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

[writing IC]
> > > Are there any rules concerning this ???
> >
> > There are, in Matrix, but IIRC it doesn't give multipliers.

I checked, and there are multipliers on page 165 of Matrix, in the
reference tables.

> You're rules are cool :))) thanks for listing them!

You're welcome :)

> By the way what does "IIRC"; "IMHO" and "OTOH" means?

If I Recall (or Remember) Correctly
In My Humble Opinion
On The Other Hand

> Web newbie

You're not using a WWW now :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Mon Jun 3 10:20:03 2002
> By the way what does "IIRC"; "IMHO" and "OTOH" means?
If I Recall (or Remember) Correctly
In My Humble Opinion
On The Other Hand
> Web newbie
You're not using a WWW now :)

OK :)))
Net newbie!
Net-etiquete newbie!
Satisfied :)))

Greets
Adam
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Mon Jun 3 13:15:00 2002
> > > Of course, if you write your own IC ...
<snip>
> > Are there any rules concerning this ???
> There are, in Matrix, but IIRC it doesn't give multipliers.

Yes, it does but not in the quick-reference section, and not in the
programming section. It's hard to find on page 109. The multipliers are a
little low IMO, but I think part of that could be because they take
advantage of host security "libraries." In lay terms it means they won't
run on anything that isn't a proper "host" and they execute more code their
their size indicates.

Da Twink Daddy
datwinkdaddy@*******.com
ICQ# 514984
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Mon Jun 3 13:40:01 2002
According to Adam, on Mon, 03 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> OK :)))
> Net newbie!
> Net-etiquete newbie!
> Satisfied :)))

The word is "netiquette" ;P

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Adam)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Mon Jun 3 16:05:02 2002
>> OK :)))
>> Net newbie!
>> Net-etiquete newbie!
>> Satisfied :)))

>The word is "netiquette" ;P

--------------------------------

Attention please!

Is there a Wordsmyth in the house ?

:)))
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Mon Jun 3 16:20:01 2002
At 10:08 PM 6/3/2002 +0200, Adam wrote:
> >> OK :)))
> >> Net newbie!
> >> Net-etiquete newbie!
> >> Satisfied :)))
>
> >The word is "netiquette" ;P
>
>--------------------------------
>
>Attention please!
>
>Is there a Wordsmyth in the house ?
>
>:)))

No, but there is a Wordman ;)

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Tue Jun 4 18:55:01 2002
On Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:35:33 +0200 Gurth <Gurth@******.nl> writes:
> According to Adam, on Mon, 03 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...
> > OK :)))
> > Net newbie!
> > Net-etiquete newbie!
> > Satisfied :)))

> The word is "netiquette" ;P

I thought it was Etiquette (Matrix) ... ;)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Another Matrix query
Date: Wed Jun 5 03:55:04 2002
>From: "Adam" <eryk@*********.net>
>You're rules are cool :))) thanks for listing them!
>By the way what does "IIRC"; "IMHO" and "OTOH" means?

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
OTOH = On The Other Hand
BTW = By The Way
And many, many more...

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