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Message no. 1
From: Doctor Doom <JCH8169@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Another question.
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 13:28:25 -0500
Meine Kamaraden:

Vielen Dank for the various responses to my question regarding
the Darth Vader Death Grip...it has stimulated my own thoughts on the
problem.

Yet another inquiry now:

As I recall, ShadowTech leaves it up to individual Game Master
arbitration as to whether a Player Character may successfully remove
Bioware. As there are several theorists and Game Masters in the
audience, I would very much like to hear what is felt regarding it, and
the rational as to why.

Regretfully, I shall be unable to participate in this discussion
at the onset, as I shall be celbrating my birthday this evening and
therefore shall be otherwise occupied.


Colonel Count von Hohenzollern und von Doom, DMSc, DSc, PhD.

Doom Technologies & Weapon Systems -- Dark Thought Publications
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
<<<
[ Doctor Doom : jch8169@********.tamu.edu ]
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"Attack, attack, and when in doubt, ATTACK!" -- Frederick the Great of Prussia
Message no. 2
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: another question
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:31:43 -0600 (CST)
Thanks for the info on SINs. Here's another one - I'm sending a well-armed
mafia team against one of the group, and so I was looking in Cybertechnology
for how to get the most plusses out of the bad guys. The Cyberzombie's
(no, I'm not using him but I was tempted) gear all had "APDS" ammo.

I presume it's in the Street Samauri's Catalog - one of the books I don't
have yet. What's APDS ammo do?

--
Rick Jones "Oh, God, Mulder. It smells like...I think it's bile."
rick@******.com "Is there any way I can get it off my fingers quickly
Meyrick@***.com without betraying my cool exterior?"
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Scully & Mulder, X-Files, Squeeze
Message no. 3
From: "Paul J. Carmen" <odin@*********.educationconnection.k12.ct.us>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:21:26 -0500
At 03:33 PM 1/16/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks for the info on SINs. Here's another one - I'm sending a well-armed
>mafia team against one of the group, and so I was looking in Cybertechnology
>for how to get the most plusses out of the bad guys. The Cyberzombie's
>(no, I'm not using him but I was tempted) gear all had "APDS" ammo.
>
>I presume it's in the Street Samauri's Catalog - one of the books I don't
>have yet. What's APDS ammo do?

That would be of the armor piercing family. In game terms it cuts the
targets ballistic armor rating in half. Nasty stuff, and tough to get.

-Lateroo
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/_/ Paul J. Carmen _/_/
_/_/ odin@*******************.k12.ct.us _/_/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Message no. 4
From: oojohn <Thanatos@******.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:01:39 +0000
Paul J. Carmen wrote:

> >I presume it's in the Street Samauri's Catalog - one of the books I don't
> >have yet. What's APDS ammo do?

APDS Stands for Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot. It is a
sub-munition, which means the bullet is smaller than the barrel it is
fired from. The bullet is accellerated through the barrel using a kind
of plug that fills the space around the bullet. (Sabot is french for
Shoe)
Use of APDS makes large, relitivly low velocity bullets attain
tremendous speeds (all the powder normally there, plus less mass and
drag because of the smaller bullet.

Incedentally, I am in the US Army...
Message no. 5
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:20:29 +0100
Rick Jones said on 16 Jan 96...

[APDS ammo]
> I presume it's in the Street Samauri's Catalog - one of the books I don't
> have yet. What's APDS ammo do?

Yes, it's from the SSC. It halves Ballistic armor, and you'll find full
stats on page 280 of the SRII main rulebook.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Iedereen gelooft wel ergens in, in God of in het 8 Uur Journaal.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: seb@***.ripco.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 15:51:35 -0600 (CST)
>
> Thanks for the info on SINs. Here's another one - I'm sending a well-armed
> mafia team against one of the group, and so I was looking in Cybertechnology
> for how to get the most plusses out of the bad guys. The Cyberzombie's
> (no, I'm not using him but I was tempted) gear all had "APDS" ammo.
>
> I presume it's in the Street Samauri's Catalog - one of the books I don't
> have yet. What's APDS ammo do?

Actually, the ssc description is out of date. the revised descrition is in
SRII, with all the other sourcebook updates. Basicly, it cuts protection from
any armor or barrier by 1/2.

BTW, I do not think the mafia would have a cyberzombie. If you nead a
hardass, make your own, but do not use cybermancy for the mafia, unless they
have possed a large threat to a mafia faction with dirrect conections to a
powerful corpooration.
>
> --
> Rick Jones "Oh, God, Mulder. It smells like...I think it's
bile."
> rick@******.com "Is there any way I can get it off my fingers quickly
> Meyrick@***.com without betraying my cool exterior?"
> http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Scully & Mulder, X-Files, Squeeze
>


--
() _
/\ /) //
/ ) o _, // o // _
/__/__<_(_) o //__<_</_</_
/| />
|/ </
Message no. 7
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:39:02 +0000 (GMT)
|
|Thanks for the info on SINs. Here's another one - I'm sending a well-armed
|mafia team against one of the group, and so I was looking in Cybertechnology
|for how to get the most plusses out of the bad guys. The Cyberzombie's
|(no, I'm not using him but I was tempted) gear all had "APDS" ammo.
|
|I presume it's in the Street Samauri's Catalog - one of the books I don't
|have yet. What's APDS ammo do?

Look in the back of thee 2ndEd book on convering from 1stEd.
Everything in the sourcebooks that needed changing are listed theree.
(Including APDS)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
| | Zaphod Beeblebroxs' last meal was taken at the |
| u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | Restaraunt at the end of the universe, since when |
| | he has been catapulted through time in a Hagunenon |
| | Spaceship, eaten by a carbon copy of the ravenous |
| | bugblatter beast of traal, received strange and |
| |unedifying instructions from himself (in his sleep!)|
| Andrew Halliwell | and in consequence made his way to the office |
| | building of the Hitch-Hikers guide to the Galaxy, |
| Foundation Year |which was then unaccountably attacked by a squadron |
| | of Frog Star fighters, Hauled in it's entirety off |
| Leading to | the surface of the planet and is now making it's |
| Principal Subjects in |way (with Zaphods' mysterious new friend Roosta) to |
| Visual Arts | the even more mysterious Frog Star. |
| & | He is therefore, not unnaturally, feeling a little |
| Computer Science | peckish........ - Douglas Adams |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: Scott Taylor Spencer <sts100z@********.cc.odu.edu>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 19:11:07 -0500 (EST)
Apds or Armor Piercing Depleted Sabot rounds effectivly half the value of
any armor the victim is wearing very nasti...but also hard to get.

_______________________________________________________________________________


"Come Friends Run With me Towards Danger"
-Unknown MST3K quote

Scott Spencer
sts100z@********.cc.odu.edu

"Nothing can stop us......we're on a mission from Glod"
-Cliff the Troll from Terry Prachett's Soul Music
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message no. 9
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:32:55 -0600 (CST)
Sebastian Wiers wrote:
> BTW, I do not think the mafia would have a cyberzombie. If you nead a
> hardass, make your own, but do not use cybermancy for the mafia, unless they
> have possed a large threat to a mafia faction with dirrect conections to a
> powerful corpooration.

Well, the local mafia is known to be techno-wonks, constantly putting more
and more metal in their goons. So I could conceive of them getting ahold
of a cybermancy-enhanced goon. But they'd only have one, and the
price for his services would be high.

--
Rick Jones Usenet is a way of being annoyed by people you
rick@******.com otherwise never would have met.
Meyrick@***.com -- John J. Kinyon
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Message no. 10
From: seb@***.ripco.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:54:56 -0600 (CST)
>
> Sebastian Wiers wrote:
> > BTW, I do not think the mafia would have a cyberzombie. If you nead a
> > hardass, make your own, but do not use cybermancy for the mafia, unless they
> > have possed a large threat to a mafia faction with dirrect conections to a
> > powerful corpooration.
>
> Well, the local mafia is known to be techno-wonks, constantly putting more
> and more metal in their goons. So I could conceive of them getting ahold
> of a cybermancy-enhanced goon. But they'd only have one, and the
> price for his services would be high.

technowonks maybe, but do they have the pull in big time magic circles? My
point is, cybermancy is not usually needed, or even helpfull. I don't think
even the mafia would want a guy around who needs 1500 Yen "medication" evey
day . Also, the caracters in Cybertechnology are full of errors.
>
> --
> Rick Jones Usenet is a way of being annoyed by people you
> rick@******.com otherwise never would have met.
> Meyrick@***.com -- John J. Kinyon
> http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
>


--
() _
/\ /) //
/ ) o _, // o // _
/__/__<_(_) o //__<_</_</_
/| />
|/ </
Message no. 11
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:58:29 +1100 (EST)
>Well, the local mafia is known to be techno-wonks, constantly putting more
>and more metal in their goons. So I could conceive of them getting ahold
>of a cybermancy-enhanced goon. But they'd only have one, and the
>price for his services would be high.

It wouldn't last... cyberzombies need the magic that maintains their aura
connection constantly renewed. As a result, they're pretty much tied down
to their originating company.

If you want this to happen, you'd want to tie in the Mafia somehow
getting a cybermancer. The runners could be hired to take him out, and
the 'mancer's first experiments are out to stop them... :)


--
* *
/_\ "A friend is someone who likes the same TV programs you do" /_\
{~._.~} "Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen {~._.~}
( Y ) to be dressed for it." -- Woody Allen ( Y )
()~*~() Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au ()~*~()
(_)-(_) (_)-(_)
Message no. 12
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:45:03 +0100
Sebastian Wiers said on 18 Jan 96...

> technowonks maybe, but do they have the pull in big time magic circles? My
> point is, cybermancy is not usually needed, or even helpfull. I don't think
> even the mafia would want a guy around who needs 1500 Yen "medication" evey

> day .

The only real problem with creating a cyberzombie is that there are only
five or six clinics that can do it in the world... 1500Y a day isn't much
of an overhead for the Mafia, I would think.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
So wasteful. So foolish.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 13
From: Zaeki@***.com
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:00:13 -0500
In a message dated 96-01-17 06:25:15 EST, you write:

> Use of APDS makes large, relitivly low velocity bullets attain
>tremendous speeds (all the powder normally there, plus less mass and
>drag because of the smaller bullet.
>
>Incedentally, I am in the US Army...

APDS exist today?!?! Learning all the time! Do EPM grenades?
Message no. 14
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:34:44 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 Zaeki@***.com wrote:

> APDS exist today?!?! Learning all the time! Do EPM grenades?

Yes, APDS *does* exist today...for tanks. I doubt even the military
has put too much sweat into designing a sabot system for small arms. The
relative sizes, material properties, and geometries involved make it
*very* difficult to make this sort of thing for, say, and assault
rifle. Now a 130mm tank gun, on the other hand...
As far as EMP grenades go, the best EMP grenade is a 10 megaton
airburst. Yowza.

Marc
Message no. 15
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:10:32 +1100 (EST)
>APDS exist today?!?! Learning all the time! Do EPM grenades?

Such a device could certainly be made today. Wether it'll pack a large
enough pulse (I assume you're talking about Electro-Magnetic Pulse?) is
debatable...


--
_______________________________________________________________________
/ \
| "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it |
| wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging |
| had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I |
| realizedthat a large part of my life from then on was going to be |
| spent infinding mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes |
| Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au |
\_______________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 16
From: Paul@********.demon.co.uk (Paul Jonathan Adam)
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:09:23 GMT
> Yes, APDS *does* exist today...for tanks. I doubt even the military
> has put too much sweat into designing a sabot system for small arms. The
> relative sizes, material properties, and geometries involved make it
> *very* difficult to make this sort of thing for, say, and assault
> rifle. Now a 130mm tank gun, on the other hand...

I can buy saboted ammo in 'Gun Mart' for my .45ACP (never bothered, mind
you) at the moment. It's not a military item for the simple reason that
at the moment, rifle ammo will penetrate any armour a man can wear and
still run across broken ground in: hence, no need for it. (It's used for
long-range pistol shooting, BTW) If armour improved drastically (as it
seems to have done in SR) then armour-piercing ammo would become more
of a priority.

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 17
From: neon@******.backbone.olemiss.edu (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:27:06 -0600
>Personally I don't see a cybermancy creation anywhere but in the hands of
>the biggest and baddest corps out there. And I think there should be hints
>and suggestions, rumours and false info for a long while before anyone ever
>sees one.
>
>Mad Hamish

What about this:
It's a rumor, if nothing else, that Renraku is heavily controlled by the
Yakuza. Now, Renraku also has some heavy magic interests, as well as
cybernetics and computers. Thats just the right mix for cybermancy, and if
Renraku could do it, could the Yaks get it? ;) Have fun trying to rough up
the next Oyabun your hired to geek.

Mike Broadwater
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
"You only need two things in this world. WD40 to make things go, and
duct tape to make them stop."
Message no. 18
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:27:18 +1100 (EST)
>It's a rumor, if nothing else, that Renraku is heavily controlled by the
>Yakuza. Now, Renraku also has some heavy magic interests, as well as
>cybernetics and computers. Thats just the right mix for cybermancy, and if
>Renraku could do it, could the Yaks get it? ;) Have fun trying to rough up
>the next Oyabun your hired to geek.

You're thinking of Mitsuhama.

--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 19
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:07:23 +0000 (GMT)
On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Mike Broadwater wrote:

> Renraku could do it, could the Yaks get it? ;) Have fun trying to rough up
> the next Oyabun your hired to geek.
^^^^
The _next_ Oyabun? I wouldn't go making that a career :)

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 20
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 00:16:40 GMT
In message <199601312126.QAA05319@*****.itribe.net> neon@******.backbone.olemiss.edu
(Mike Broadwater) writes:
> What about this:
> It's a rumor, if nothing else, that Renraku is heavily controlled by the
> Yakuza. Now, Renraku also has some heavy magic interests, as well as
> cybernetics and computers. Thats just the right mix for cybermancy, and if
> Renraku could do it, could the Yaks get it? ;) Have fun trying to rough up
> the next Oyabun your hired to geek.

MCT is a Yakuza front, basically. But how much of an edge is a deltaware
monster compared to the same money spread across more troops? I mean,
by the time you're into hard-core cybermancy you've spent upwards of
five million on someone, plus half a million a year just for the drugs.
How many Boosted-III commandos could you buy for that? Lots and lots,
and ten of them will beat one cybermanced samurai almost every time.
More to the point, they rock and roll all over typical opposition, and
when you have lots you can put them where they're needed.

Spend the same money on a group of lesser mortals, then train them to
work properly as a team, and you have a really threatening opponent.

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Further Reading

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