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Message no. 1
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 06:07:51 -0400
Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore. That being Tank guns and
Shotguns. Then I looked in my handy copy of 3G3 and noted that normal
bullets are 3:1 l:w, while most saboted rounds are 10:1 l:w. IIRC, this is
because long-arm penetrators are unstable if you spin them. (Example: Take
a top and a pencil. Spin them, drop them. Which hits the ground on its
side?)

So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.

For that matter, what happened to shotgun APDS ammo, such as is readily
available (in the US) from mail-order outfits like Blammo ammo? (I'm not
kidding. These guys sell all kinds of whacked out rounds for shotguns, up
to and including Dragons' Breath rounds, which turn the shotgun into a
short-duration flame-thrower. (They also do nasty things to the barrel.))

--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Message no. 2
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:13:37 -0400
<snipped interesting stuff 'bout APDS>

> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.

Then why with that run with Sgt. Slaughter that part of our payment
included the Barett ? 8*) Of course it ended up as a decoration on my
characters wall. (Makes an interesting conversation piece.<EG>


SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 20:26:03 +0100
Jonathan Hurley said on 6:07/19 Jul 97...

> Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
> right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
> seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
> that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore.

Actually, no. APDS rounds have been used since late WWII, and most guns
firing them have rifled bores -- the L7 (M68 to Americans) 105 mm tank
gun, for example. APFSDS rounds are generally fired from smoothbore
weapons like the Rh-120 (M256), but they have the FS (Fin Stabilized) bit
_because_ the weapon is smoothbore. APDS rounds spin like other rounds
fired from rifles gun, and they need it for stability. However, APFSDS
projectiles are generally longer than APDS projectiles, yes.

> So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
> problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
> I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
> sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
> placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
> pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.

IMHO there is no need to go to all this trouble for firing APDS rounds
from rifled barrels, because the round _needs_ to be spun. The problem is
the other way around, if you ask me: shotguns must somehow spin the APDS
round for it to work properly. Still, since today rifled slugs exist for
shotguns, it shouldn't be too hard to apply the same tech to the sabots of
an APDS round.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 4
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:02:28 -0500
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Jonathan Hurley wrote:

> But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
> I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
> sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
> placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
> pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
Actually sabot rounds for long rifles exist today. They are called
"accelerator" rounds. You can buy them for the 30.06. The actual bullet
is a .22 cal but the plastic (I guess) makes up the difference. The
bullet discards the sabot and travels on to the target at 2 to 3 times
the speed of a similar .30 bullet.


I hope this helps

-Bill
Message no. 5
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:57:54 +0100
In message <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>, Jonathan
Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
>right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
>seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
>that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore. That being Tank guns and
>Shotguns. Then I looked in my handy copy of 3G3 and noted that normal
>bullets are 3:1 l:w, while most saboted rounds are 10:1 l:w. IIRC, this is
>because long-arm penetrators are unstable if you spin them. (Example: Take
>a top and a pencil. Spin them, drop them. Which hits the ground on its
>side?)

Point of history.

Armour piercing ammo evolved steadily. Up to the 1940s, AP rounds were
just full-calibre chunks of steel. Larger AP rounds might have burster
charges and base fuses, but most tank and anti-tank guns were 37mm-40mm
in calibre and didn't have room.

As tank armour improved, the AT guns got bigger. It was well known that
armour piercing performance depended on how fast the projectile hit the
armour, how hard it was, and how heavy it was. Thus, AT guns got longer
barrels, fired at higher velocities, and the rounds began to be made of
higher-carbon hardened steel (harder) or tungsten (heavier and harder).

It was also noticed that, to make a shell travel fast in the barrel and
get the highest muzzle velocity, it should be a large-calibre
lightweight projectile. Thus, HVAP (High Velocity Armour Piercing)
appeared: a light-metal projectile with a steel or tungsten core, that
achieved spectacular velocity.

However, to retain its velocity in flight, the projectile should be as
small and dense as possible: HVAP lost velocity and accuracy rapidly at
longer ranges.

One solution was "squeezebore", where the projectile's hard dense core
was surrounded by skirts of aluminium and the barrel tapered at the
muzzle: thus you got a large light round in the barrel, and a small
dense one in flight. This limited the gun (couldn't fire HE rounds) and
also compromised accuracy.

Some bright spark replaced the tapered end of the barrel, with a skirt
(or 'sabot') around the penetrator that fell away outside the barrel:
hence, Armour Piercing, Discarding Sabot.

This was still fired from rifled guns, and the penetrator had a L/D
ratio of about 4:1 to 5:1.

Further advances in materials and metallurgy led to the switch to long-
rod penetrators for tank guns, having L/D ratios of 10:1 or higher.
These cannot be spin-stabilised, so the penetrator is fin-stabilised.
Thus the modern Armour Piercing, Fin Stabilised, Discarding Sabot rounds
(APFSDS) used by most tanks today.


>So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
>problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
>I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
>sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel.

Bad move. Loses you accuracy and velocity.

>Two,
>placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
>pseudo-smoothbore.

Why not just change barrels? Doing this for a 5.56mm rifle could be
interesting.

>Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.

Oh, you thought of it too :)

>Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.

Five, which is what the British Army does today for its 120mm rifled
tank gun: put a slipping driving band on the sabot. It skids over the
rifling rather than engaging in it, and so only a very slight spin
(which helps the sabot to discard cleanly) is imparted to the
projectile.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 6
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:03:43 -0400
> Five, which is what the British Army does today for its 120mm rifled
> tank gun: put a slipping driving band on the sabot. It skids over the
> rifling rather than engaging in it, and so only a very slight spin
> (which helps the sabot to discard cleanly) is imparted to the
> projectile.

*That* was it. I knew I'd heard about something like that. Thank you.

--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Message no. 7
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: APDS Ammo
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:46:58 +0200
I always wondered why APDS ammo were so powerful...
Here is a proposition :
When using APDS ammo, you the initial power of the weapon from armor.
For the purpose of soaking, use half the initial power and reduce power
level by one.

Exemple : Sam the sammy is firing with his Ares Predator on a thug with a
form fitting 3 and a lined coat (which gives him an total armor of 6/2).
Because the target only has 6 points of ballistic, he doesn't get any
effective armor.
To keep track of damages, Sam uses a damage code of 4L.

Your opinion ?

- Cobra.
Message no. 8
From: java <java@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:41:09 -0400
> From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: APDS Ammo
> Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 9:46 AM
>
> I always wondered why APDS ammo were so powerful...
> Here is a proposition :
> When using APDS ammo, you the initial power of the weapon from armor.
> For the purpose of soaking, use half the initial power and reduce power
> level by one.
>
[snip example]

Cobra,
I don't see any problem with this, however, as a house rule to compensate
for the power of apds, I make it very hard to get, it is after all milspec.
Generally it costs 500 Y for 5 shots and has an availability of 24/12 or
14. My players learned very quickly that apds is not something for
everyday use. It is only to be whipped out for the big boys.
Java

"Irony, It's like goldy or silvery, only different"
Blackadder
Java@**********.com
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:02:33 +0100
Cobra said on 15:46/23 Apr 98...

> When using APDS ammo, you the initial power of the weapon from armor.
> For the purpose of soaking, use half the initial power and reduce power
> level by one.

Another solution I've seen a lot is to drop the Damage Level by 1 when
firing APDS, without reducing the Power Level. Doing both is IMHO too
much, as your example demonstrated, this will drop a heavy pistol down to
hold-out damage. Just letting the character resist against the normal
Power Level (minus armor, of course) should be sufficient, if you ask me.

After all, players should get _something_ in return for their 14/14 days,
street index 4 ammo...

(/me recalls when his players wanted to buy a minigun. 3 game months
later they still didn't have one...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
going down thinking
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 10
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:03:09 +0200
>> I always wondered why APDS ammo were so powerful...
>> Here is a proposition :
>> When using APDS ammo, you the initial power of the weapon from armor.
>> For the purpose of soaking, use half the initial power and reduce power
>> level by one.
>>
>[snip example]
>
>Cobra,
> I don't see any problem with this, however, as a house rule to
compensate
>for the power of apds, I make it very hard to get, it is after all milspec.
> Generally it costs 500 Y for 5 shots and has an availability of 24/12 or
>14. My players learned very quickly that apds is not something for
>everyday use. It is only to be whipped out for the big boys.

We're not on the same line...
I don't care about game balance or anything like this. I just considered
the way such ammo work. APDS have less diruptive effect (read damaging
effect) than standard ammo.

- Cobra.
Message no. 11
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:03:23 +0200
>> When using APDS ammo, you the initial power of the weapon from armor.
>> For the purpose of soaking, use half the initial power and reduce power
>> level by one.
>
>Another solution I've seen a lot is to drop the Damage Level by 1 when
>firing APDS, without reducing the Power Level. Doing both is IMHO too
>much, as your example demonstrated, this will drop a heavy pistol down to
>hold-out damage. Just letting the character resist against the normal
>Power Level (minus armor, of course) should be sufficient, if you ask me.

Well, perhaps yes.

>After all, players should get _something_ in return for their 14/14 days,
>street index 4 ammo...

Yep but IMO, APDS are mostly used against armored guys. On the other ones,
I think its effect is less than standard ammo.

- Cobra.
Message no. 12
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:11:45 +0000
On 23 Apr 98, Cobra disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

> I always wondered why APDS ammo were so powerful...
> Here is a proposition :
> When using APDS ammo, you the initial power of the weapon from
> armor. For the purpose of soaking, use half the initial power and
> reduce power level by one.

Well, I simply reduce the power by one level for APDS. Oh, and I've
increased the price to 140¡. Then there's the Street Index, of
course...

I don't know why, but my players don't use APDS. <shrug>

(Of course, they do use "normal", conical AP ammo... Ballistic -2,
and that's about it.. Oh, and it's a cop killer ammo, just like APDS
- it's just that APDS is "military-grade cop killer ammo". When they
catch you with any of those, the difference is pretty moot. <eGMg>)

> Exemple : Sam the sammy is firing with his Ares Predator on a thug
> with a form fitting 3 and a lined coat (which gives him an total
> armor of 6/2). Because the target only has 6 points of ballistic, he
> doesn't get any effective armor. To keep track of damages, Sam uses
> a damage code of 4L.

Errr... Isn't that a bit weak?

> - Cobra.

Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bea=
r/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; =
SNAFU; TANJ
Geek Code v3.12 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ L++ P E--- W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O+=
M-
PS+(+++) PE Y+ PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-=
- !y-*
The economy is the secret police of our desires.
Message no. 13
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:10:59 +0200
>> I always wondered why APDS ammo were so powerful...
>> Here is a proposition :
>> When using APDS ammo, you the initial power of the weapon from
>> armor. For the purpose of soaking, use half the initial power and
>> reduce power level by one.
>
>Well, I simply reduce the power by one level for APDS. Oh, and I've
>increased the price to 140¡. Then there's the Street Index, of
>course...
>
>I don't know why, but my players don't use APDS. <shrug>

:)

>(Of course, they do use "normal", conical AP ammo... Ballistic -2,
>and that's about it.. Oh, and it's a cop killer ammo, just like APDS
>- it's just that APDS is "military-grade cop killer ammo". When they
>catch you with any of those, the difference is pretty moot. <eGMg>)
>
>> Exemple : Sam the sammy is firing with his Ares Predator on a thug
>> with a form fitting 3 and a lined coat (which gives him an total
>> armor of 6/2). Because the target only has 6 points of ballistic, he
>> doesn't get any effective armor. To keep track of damages, Sam uses
>> a damage code of 4L.
>
>Errr... Isn't that a bit weak?

Perhaps yes but the target doesn't have anymore armor to help him. 6L would
be fine IMO (the same effect as a light pistol on an unarmored target).
Perhaps use 2/3rd of the initial power instead of half...

- Cobra.
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:43:27 +0100
Cobra said on 1:03/24 Apr 98...

> >After all, players should get _something_ in return for their 14/14 days,
> >street index 4 ammo...
>
> Yep but IMO, APDS are mostly used against armored guys. On the other ones,
> I think its effect is less than standard ammo.

Not under the normal SRII rules -- with those, APDS is just as effective
as regular rounds against unarmored targets. Only when you add in armor
does APDS get an edge. Like I said, dropping the Damage Level of APDS by
one is IMHO a good and easy solution if you want to make it less effective
against unarmored targets.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
It's better to have loved and lost
Than to listen to an Olivia Newton John record
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 15
From: Alexander Jenisch <night@********.CO.AT>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:01:44 +0200
Cobra schrieb:
>
> >> I always wondered why APDS ammo were so powerful...

Ah, please don't flame me for that uqestion but I'm new here and I'm
whether informed about the English rules nor the abbreviations. So what
is 'APDS'?
Message no. 16
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" <jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:39:01 -0700
----------
> From: Alexander Jenisch <night@********.CO.AT>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
> Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 6:01 PM
>
> Cobra schrieb:
> >
> > >> I always wondered why APDS ammo were so powerful...
>
> Ah, please don't flame me for that uqestion but I'm new here and I'm
> whether informed about the English rules nor the abbreviations. So what
> is 'APDS'?

I don't remember what it stands for, but it's essentially military grade
armor piercing ammo. You can find it in the Street Samurai Catalog.
Message no. 17
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:58:39 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Alexander Jenisch
Sent: April 24, 1998 9:02 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Ah, please don't flame me for that uqestion but I'm new here and I'm
whether informed about the English rules nor the abbreviations. So what
is 'APDS'?
======================
Hehehehe, no, I will resist! Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot. At least
that's what the initials were originaly used for. Basically, think of a dart
inside a bullet round. When fired the shell breaks up and only the dart goes
to hit the target. Because of the way the sabot discards itself, most of the
original momentum stays with the dart, so we have a fast moving sharp
pointed dart, which is good at penetrating armour.

I believe that the Shadowrun APDS rounds use depleted uranium, but not sure
about that. If my memory serves me correctly, the main anti-tank ammo of the
Abrahams M-1 tank is a huge APDS round.

Hope that has been of help. I apologize for any inaccuracies.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
Message no. 18
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 23:35:27 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 03:01 AM 4/25/98 +0200, Alexander wrote:
>Ah, please don't flame me for that uqestion but I'm new here and I'm
>whether informed about the English rules nor the abbreviations. So
what
>is 'APDS'?

Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot. It's an ammunition type introduced in
the Street Samurai's Catalog.
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-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
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Message no. 19
From: Erik Luken <hawke@******.NET>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:41:03 -0500
>----------
>> From: Alexander Jenisch <night@********.CO.AT>
>> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
>> Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
>> Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 6:01 PM
>>
>> Cobra schrieb:
>> >
>> > >> I always wondered why APDS ammo were so powerful...
>>
>> Ah, please don't flame me for that uqestion but I'm new here and I'm
>> whether informed about the English rules nor the abbreviations. So what
>> is 'APDS'?
>
>I don't remember what it stands for, but it's essentially military grade
>armor piercing ammo. You can find it in the Street Samurai Catalog.
>


Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot.
Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:49:46 +0100
Alexander Jenisch said on 3:01/25 Apr 98...

> Ah, please don't flame me for that uqestion but I'm new here and I'm
> whether informed about the English rules nor the abbreviations. So what
> is 'APDS'?

Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot. It's a common abbreviation when you're
talking about tank guns from WWII to the present day, but in SR it refers
to a certain type of bullet for hand-held firearms. They're in the Street
Samurai Catalog (also known as the SSC; read the FAQ for more), in the
Security section.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
It's better to have loved and lost
Than to listen to an Olivia Newton John record
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:49:47 +0100
Katt Freyson said on 22:58/24 Apr 98...

> I believe that the Shadowrun APDS rounds use depleted uranium,
> but not sure about that.

They could, but it's not mentioned whether they do in the SSC or not. IMHO
it's also largely irrelevant whether DU is used in the construction of
such rounds, except if you'd like to give your players the added problem
of dealing with corroded DU and the radioactivity that can result from
firing such rounds.

> If my memory serves me correctly, the main anti-tank ammo of the
> Abrahams M-1 tank is a huge APDS round.

Actually it's APFSDS -- Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot --
because you can't fire APDS rounds from a smoothbore gun very well. But on
the whole you're right, modern armor piercing tank ammo uses discarding
sabots around a penetrator (as opposed to explosive shells like HEAT or
HESH, which are full-caliber rounds).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
It's better to have loved and lost
Than to listen to an Olivia Newton John record
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 22
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:17:10 EDT
In a message dated 4/25/98 1:12:09 AM !!!First Boot!!!, night@********.CO.AT
writes:

> > >> I always wondered why APDS ammo were so powerful...
>
> Ah, please don't flame me for that uqestion but I'm new here and I'm
> whether informed about the English rules nor the abbreviations. So what
> is 'APDS'?

APDS = Armor Piercing Depleted Shells, as per the rules they have the
ballistic armor rating of a target when making a damage resistance test.
Message no. 23
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:03:23 +0000
On 24 Apr 98, Katt Freyson disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

[...]
> I believe that the Shadowrun APDS rounds use depleted
> uranium, but not sure
> about that. If my memory serves me correctly, the main anti-tank
> ammo of the Abrahams M-1 tank is a huge APDS round.

No, I don't think so. It is not mentioned anywhere, and I doubt one
would use DU for personal rounds. More like steel and tungsten
penetrators...

(Oh, and the tank is named Abrams, not Abrahams. ;)))


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
Geek Code v3.12 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ L++ P E--- W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O+ M-
PS+(+++) PE Y+ PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
Are you certain you are not the Devil? - Lancelot
Yeah, sure. Don't you smell the brimstone? And my right hoof is killing me. - Corwin
Message no. 24
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:08:03 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Leszek Karlik, aka Mike
Sent: April 25, 1998 1:03 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo

No, I don't think so. It is not mentioned anywhere, and I doubt one
would use DU for personal rounds. More like steel and tungsten
penetrators...

(Oh, and the tank is named Abrams, not Abrahams. ;)))
=====================
How dare you dissillusion me? I was quite happy living in my delusion. Oh
well,since you have done so, I guess I'll have to live with it.

Quite correct on the APDS, I was thinking of the main gun of the A-10 Tank
killer, which uses DU rounds to destroy tanks. And thanks also for the
correction of the name of the A1.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about APDS Ammo, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!