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Message no. 1
From: "David L. Hoff" <DLHOFF@****.WISC.EDU>
Subject: AP Grenades for launchers
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 17:25:00 CDT
I was wondering if anone out in net-land has developed rules for AP rounds
for grenade launchers. I do not mean HE rounds, which are used against troops
in the open, I mean a round for a grenade launcher that looks like a _big_
shotgun shell, and is meant to be fired as a direct fire weapon. I know that
the US army has these for the M203 under-barrel grenade launcher, but I don't
know any of the specifications. Anyone able to help?

--Phoenix

dlhoff@****.wisc.edu
Message no. 2
From: "I.M. Legion" <legion@***.SC.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: AP Grenades for launchers
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 11:40:21 -0600
Phoenix writes:
> I was wondering if anone out in net-land has developed rules for AP rounds
> for grenade launchers. I do not mean HE rounds, which are used against troops
> in the open, I mean a round for a grenade launcher that looks like a _big_
> shotgun shell, and is meant to be fired as a direct fire weapon. I know that
> the US army has these for the M203 under-barrel grenade launcher, but I don't
> know any of the specifications. Anyone able to help?

Are you sure the Army has 40mm AP grenades? They do have a "shotgun" round
that is a direct fire round somewhat like you desrcibe, but I don't think
they have an AP round. The velocity of the round would be too low for it
to be effective as an AP device. If I'm wrong, please let me know, as I
would like to see some stats for an AP grenade if it does exist!

--
Legion
Students for War & Oppression
@@@@ @ @ @@@@ Counter productive, highly destructive!
@ @ @@ @ @ @ ---
@@@@ @ @@ @ @ @ Celebrating the occurrences of War &
@ @ @@ @ @ @ Oppression since the dawn of time
@@@@ @@@@ @@@@ -- Even the planets were born in turmoil... --
Message no. 3
From: "David L. Hoff" <DLHOFF@****.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: AP Grenades for launchers
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 00:52:00 CDT
From Legion's recent post (sorry, I havent figured out how to quote stuff
from someone else's post yet), I see that there is a bit of a mix-up.

When I mentioned AP rounds for a 40mm grenade launcher, I meant _anti-
personnel_, not armour peircing (sp?) rounds. The "shotgun" round Legion
mentioned is exactly the one I want stats for. I know that it is a direct
fire round that shoots out bunches of big BB's, but I don't know what sort
of range it has, what sort of spread pattern, etc. Anyone else got any info?

--Phoenix
dlhoff@****.wisc.edu
Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: AP Grenades for launchers
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 09:33:00 -0400
>>>>> "David" == David L Hoff <DLHOFF@****.WISC.EDU>
writes:

David> When I mentioned AP rounds for a 40mm grenade launcher, I meant
David> _anti- personnel_, not armour peircing (sp?) rounds.

These are almost always high explosive (HE), high explosive dual purpose
(HEDP), or fragmentation/anti-materiel (AM), never refered to as "AP" which
is reserved for armor piercing.

And yes, there are AP "grenades" in use today.

David> The "shotgun" round Legion mentioned is exactly the one I want stats
David> for. I know that it is a direct fire round that shoots out bunches
David> of big BB's, but I don't know what sort of range it has, what sort
David> of spread pattern, etc. Anyone else got any info?

Not off hand, sorry.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "One likes to believe in the freedom of
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | baseball." --Geddy Lee
Message no. 5
From: Brent Krupp <fletcher@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: AP Grenades for Launchers...
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 08:19:32 -0700
On Thu, 7 Jul 1994, I.M. Legion" <legion@***.SC.COLOSTATE.EDU> wrote:
>
> Phoenix writes:
> > I was wondering if anone out in net-land has developed rules for AP rounds
> > for grenade launchers. I do not mean HE rounds, which are used against troops
> > in the open, I mean a round for a grenade launcher that looks like a _big_
> > shotgun shell, and is meant to be fired as a direct fire weapon. I know that
> > the US army has these for the M203 under-barrel grenade launcher, but I don't
> > know any of the specifications. Anyone able to help?
>
> Are you sure the Army has 40mm AP grenades? They do have a "shotgun" round
> that is a direct fire round somewhat like you desrcibe, but I don't think
> they have an AP round. The velocity of the round would be too low for it
> to be effective as an AP device. If I'm wrong, please let me know, as I
> would like to see some stats for an AP grenade if it does exist!

I think it is clear from Phoenix's question that he is using "AP" to mean
"anti-personnel", NOT "armor-piercing". An unfortunate overlap of
abbreviations.

But, to answer both questions, yes, there is a 40mm grenade that fires
pellets right out of the barrel, like a big shotgun shell. Also, there is
a 40mm grenade called an "HEDP -- High Explosive Dual Purpose". The dual
purpose refers to killing people *and* armor. It has a shaped charge and
fins so it supposedly hits armor straight on and penetrates, but it still
has enough general "boom" to kill people if fired at them. These are both
REAL grenades from the 80s or before... so you'd think something like
this could be had in Shadowrun.

Brent Krupp (fletcher@*.washington.edu)
Message no. 6
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: AP Grenades for Launchers...
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 16:31:37 +0100
>
> On Thu, 7 Jul 1994, I.M. Legion" <legion@***.SC.COLOSTATE.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > Phoenix writes:
> > > I was wondering if anone out in net-land has developed rules for AP rounds
> > > for grenade launchers. I do not mean HE rounds, which are used against
troop
> > Are you sure the Army has 40mm AP grenades? They do have a "shotgun"
round
> > that is a direct fire round somewhat like you desrcibe, but I don't think
> > they have an AP round. The velocity of the round would be too low for it
> I think it is clear from Phoenix's question that he is using "AP" to mean
> "anti-personnel", NOT "armor-piercing". An unfortunate overlap of
> abbreviations.
>
<CHOP> YOU ALL MEAN A-Pers not AP!

the M79 and M203 can all take the anti personal shotgun round
Its a normal 40mm HiLo opperation loading, but it throws out a
caing that splits as it leaves the barrel.
As far as i remember,it loaded 16 number 4 shot (big ones... not
wimpy little 00 buck)
In 'Nam somepeaple cut M79's down, loaded them with APers and
carried them as sidearms.(i've seen pictures)
But the round went out of production in the 70's i think (as
military combat shotguns are usually jungle warfare weapons)

CHOPPER

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